Moderation DOES NOT WORK for me

PRMinx

But there are some things made of cauliflower that are tasty. And let's remember this all started because of your snobbiness about pizza crust and claiming I had no palate since I see it primarily as a sauce, cheese, toppings delivery vehicle. And sometimes you don't need to drop $1000 at such places -- work can pick up the tab (but I remember it being more like $400/head). One of the few benefits of that salt mine.

Either way, why all the insults? Oh, because you can. Stay classy.

I'm just trying to figure out how two people with no discernible palates care so much about French Laundry. Hey, knock yourselves out. I'm sure the Sommelier will have a field day with you.

I know it's a crazy idea that someone can enjoy a meal at a place like French Laundry and still think that pizza crust is overrated and primarily a sauce, cheese and toppings delivery vehicle. That was also my experience eating it in Italy. But, yes, I now with your instruction, I realize how that is actually impossible. Silly me.

Hence my point. If you believe that then your palate is dead. Take that any way you want, but it's a fact. You might as well eat Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Hell, definitely eat Pizza Hut because that greasy crap they call crust holds more so it makes a better delivery vehicle. Never mind the mouth feel of the crust or the careful balance of ingredients, just take any bread-like object, load it up, and shove it in.

Nothing like taking a nice 48 hour risen hand stretched skin, a little fresh ground garlic and basil in the dough, covered with the toppings you like, but that crust.

Those little heel ends that so few seem to like? Man, drizzle a little honey on that, and you know what? Even Tom Keller will stfu and eat the hell out of it.

Oh, and a relevant amusement:
http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/5607-a-four-year-old-reviews-the-french-laundry

pfft, french laundry.

"It tastes like a tinker bell popsicle." - So much win right there.

Kalikel

I do not feel that everyone who posts anything must be prepared to enter some sort of debate.

I've gone the route of debating the existence of junk food. Some people don't believe that what they eat makes a difference in their health. Others know it does, but refuse to admit it. Either way, I'd be banging my head against a wall.

Besides, converting you into believing that junk food can harm you does me no good. Can't help me any.

Since you're declaring that it isn't fair, I'll give you one of many possible answers: It clogs up your arteries.

Now I'm done. No cried of unfairness, personal insults or studies that show the Oreo is really a health food will drag me into some prolonged argument of the existence of junk food.

Don't believe junk food exists? Okay by me.

Then you need to stop challenging people about things like "lard" without being able to provide any specifics about what is bad about it.

Especially when the food under discussion doesn't even contain it.

There is nothing known to be toxic in an Oreo cookie.

Since you're declaring that it isn't fair, I'll give you one of many possible answers: It clogs up your arteries.

The myth of eating saturated fats causing high cholesterol has been debunked for a while now:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html

"Overall, the literature does not offer much support for the idea that long term saturated fat intake has a significant effect on the concentration of blood cholesterol in humans. If it's a factor at all, it must be rather weak."

If you are going to talk about "junk food", then you need to explain precisely what is bad about the food. Generally, the most damning thing you can say about "junk food", (and this is what makes it junk), is that it is low in essential nutrients, and usually high in calories.

But other than that, there's generally not anything toxic about it as a food.

I don't have to do or not do anything and you are most welcome to ignore all of my posts.

I couldn't care less what food you eat. If it makes you happy, that's what matters.

MelodyandBarbells

I feel like doing some white knighting, so I'll say this in defense of the "moderation doesn't work" peeps:

Whereas guided moderation has worked great for me, I've noticed time and again that moderation doesn't seem to work (except very short term) in the absence of some objective way to measure both how much I've eaten and how much I should be eating.

It's all nice and good to say moderation works while we have at our disposal a tool that makes it easy, but if I didn't have access to some sort of way to log what I eat (or if I didn't want to do so), restrictive dieting would be the only way I could keep my weight stable.

In a very real sense, it's less a matter of "one method is better than the other" than one of "we have two methods, each with their advantages and disadvantages".

You can definitely lose weight outside of calorie counting, but my assumption is that anyone posting a question here has chosen to calorie count using the MFP tool.

Edit: I missed one part of your post in parentheses. If they don't want to count calories, I usually tend to stay away from the topic except for mild enlightenment / entertainment. We'd simply not be using the same path to weight loss at that point and I couldn't contribute much if anything to their selected strategy

lindsey1979

I feel like doing some white knighting, so I'll say this in defense of the "moderation doesn't work" peeps:

Whereas guided moderation has worked great for me, I've noticed time and again that moderation doesn't seem to work (except very short term) in the absence of some objective way to measure both how much I've eaten and how much I should be eating.

It's all nice and good to say moderation works while we have at our disposal a tool that makes it easy, but if I didn't have access to some sort of way to log what I eat (or if I didn't want to do so), restrictive dieting would be the only way I could keep my weight stable.

In a very real sense, it's less a matter of "one method is better than the other" than one of "we have two methods, each with their advantages and disadvantages".

You can definitely lose weight outside of calorie counting, but my assumption is that anyone posting a question here has chosen to calorie count using the MFP tool.

Edit: I missed one part of your post in parentheses. If they don't want to count calories, I usually tend to stay away from the topic except for mild enlightenment / entertainment. We'd simply not be using the same path to weight loss at that point and I couldn't contribute much if anything to their selected strategy

For 1800+ posts and you haven't figured out that not everyone on MFP counts calories, let alone with the MFP tool. You must not be paying that close attention...

GCA9139

I used to be just like this so I understand the pain and trouble you're going through and what I have to say might not be quite what you want to hear but it all changed for me when I hit my "rock bottom."

I had seen a picture of myself and thought "surely there's no way that can be me? I can't be that heavy!?!" The next night I went out to dinner with friends and I slipped into habit and got a sandwich and fries because I LOOOOOOVE french fries and as I was eating them I started to get full and I looked at the plate and thought, "there's no reason I need to continue eating this...I'm full so I need to stop." I then looked at the plate a couple times, contemplated "just one more fry!" but eventually I poured a little water onto my plate and the fries got all mushy and gross and I couldn't eat them anymore.

If you aren't CONSCIOUSLY thinking the entire time you're eating you will accidentally slip up but you have to honestly ask yourself if it's worth it when you're about to eat it. If you're going to regret eating it after you're finished then you are the only person that can convince yourself not to eat it. Maybe you haven't hit your rock bottom yet but once you do you still have to make that concerted effort to NOT eat what you don't need!

Best of luck!!!

SunofaBeach14

But there are some things made of cauliflower that are tasty. And let's remember this all started because of your snobbiness about pizza crust and claiming I had no palate since I see it primarily as a sauce, cheese, toppings delivery vehicle. And sometimes you don't need to drop $1000 at such places -- work can pick up the tab (but I remember it being more like $400/head). One of the few benefits of that salt mine.

Either way, why all the insults? Oh, because you can. Stay classy.

I'm just trying to figure out how two people with no discernible palates care so much about French Laundry. Hey, knock yourselves out. I'm sure the Sommelier will have a field day with you.

I know it's a crazy idea that someone can enjoy a meal at a place like French Laundry and still think that pizza crust is overrated and primarily a sauce, cheese and toppings delivery vehicle. That was also my experience eating it in Italy. But, yes, I now with your instruction, I realize how that is actually impossible. Silly me.

Hence my point. If you believe that then your palate is dead. Take that any way you want, but it's a fact. You might as well eat Dominoes or Pizza Hut. Hell, definitely eat Pizza Hut because that greasy crap they call crust holds more so it makes a better delivery vehicle. Never mind the mouth feel of the crust or the careful balance of ingredients, just take any bread-like object, load it up, and shove it in.

Or, genius, you could just not like bread that much, period. But you still like the savory components of cheese, sauce and various toppings. You're really quite obtuse about this. But I guess that makes you feel better about yourself.

Hey, if you don't like a certain food then say it, but don't denigrate it and pretend to know what you're talking about, and then name drop to cover up for your obvious fumbling. You might as well call sushi rice a delivery vehicle for fish, and then start telling me all about Sukiyabashi. It's weird.

That's how I view pizza crust. You feel differently. I'm not denigrating you, but you certainly have time and time again insulted and denigrated me. You're a complete hypocrite.

I feel the same way about rice in Thai curries -- sauce delivery vehicle. Or the same about most non-filled pastas. I'll substitute out for spaghetti squash because the pasta itself doesn't do much for me.

There isn't any objective truth. It's simply a matter of taste. Why don't you try not being such a jerk sometime?

Please call me a few more names and then complain how mean I am again. Oh, and have fun with your fake food and make sure to tell your good buddy, Chef Keller, all about it.

dbmata

Nothing like taking a nice 48 hour risen hand stretched skin, a little fresh ground garlic and basil in the dough, covered with the toppings you like, but that crust.

Those little heel ends that so few seem to like? Man, drizzle a little honey on that, and you know what? Even Tom Keller will stfu and eat the hell out of it.

Oh, and a relevant amusement:
http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/5607-a-four-year-old-reviews-the-french-laundry

pfft, french laundry.

"It tastes like a tinker bell popsicle." - So much win right there.

I would quite literally hump a popsicle that tasted like fairies.

That's not weird.

lindsey1979

That's how I view pizza crust. You feel differently. I'm not denigrating you, but you certainly have time and time again insulted and denigrated me. You're a complete hypocrite.

I feel the same way about rice in Thai curries -- sauce delivery vehicle. Or the same about most non-filled pastas. I'll substitute out for spaghetti squash because the pasta itself doesn't do much for me.

There isn't any objective truth. It's simply a matter of taste. Why don't you try not being such a jerk sometime?

Please call me a few more names and then complain how mean I am again. Oh, and have fun with your fake food and make sure to tell your good buddy, Chef Keller, all about it.

You're a real gem, SunofaBeach. An awesome human being. Go on with your bad self.

dbmata

All the back and forth about pizza is hilarious and sad. I suspect so many people wouldn't know good pizza if it hit them in the face.

Yours truly,

The pizza snob

I hear Alice Waters makes a wonderful cauliflower pizza with ingredients sourced no more than 50 feet from her.

SunofaBeach14

That's how I view pizza crust. You feel differently. I'm not denigrating you, but you certainly have time and time again insulted and denigrated me. You're a complete hypocrite.

I feel the same way about rice in Thai curries -- sauce delivery vehicle. Or the same about most non-filled pastas. I'll substitute out for spaghetti squash because the pasta itself doesn't do much for me.

There isn't any objective truth. It's simply a matter of taste. Why don't you try not being such a jerk sometime?

Please call me a few more names and then complain how mean I am again. Oh, and have fun with your fake food and make sure to tell your good buddy, Chef Keller, all about it.

You're a real gem, SunofaBeach. An awesome human being. Go on with your bad self.

Thanks, but I'm pretty sure I smell butt hurt. Don't dish if you can't take.

lindsey1979

All the back and forth about pizza is hilarious and sad. I suspect so many people wouldn't know good pizza if it hit them in the face.

Yours truly,

The pizza snob

I hear Alice Waters makes a wonderful cauliflower pizza with ingredients sourced no more than 50 feet from her.

Oh no, SunofaBeach will be back here soon to tell you to stop name dropping and get out a little more. He likely has something against bay area chefs. Because we all know that Alice Waters has no idea what she's doing.

PRMinx

Nothing like taking a nice 48 hour risen hand stretched skin, a little fresh ground garlic and basil in the dough, covered with the toppings you like, but that crust.

Those little heel ends that so few seem to like? Man, drizzle a little honey on that, and you know what? Even Tom Keller will stfu and eat the hell out of it.

Oh, and a relevant amusement:
http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/5607-a-four-year-old-reviews-the-french-laundry

pfft, french laundry.

"It tastes like a tinker bell popsicle." - So much win right there.

I would quite literally hump a popsicle that tasted like fairies.

That's not weird.

Not at all. :laugh:

Can we talk about Per Se now?

lindsey1979

That's how I view pizza crust. You feel differently. I'm not denigrating you, but you certainly have time and time again insulted and denigrated me. You're a complete hypocrite.

I feel the same way about rice in Thai curries -- sauce delivery vehicle. Or the same about most non-filled pastas. I'll substitute out for spaghetti squash because the pasta itself doesn't do much for me.

There isn't any objective truth. It's simply a matter of taste. Why don't you try not being such a jerk sometime?

Please call me a few more names and then complain how mean I am again. Oh, and have fun with your fake food and make sure to tell your good buddy, Chef Keller, all about it.

You're a real gem, SunofaBeach. An awesome human being. Go on with your bad self.

Thanks, but I'm pretty sure I smell butt hurt. Don't dish if you can't take.

Then, you're wrong. But I'm sure you won't realize that either.

A battle of wits with the unarmed isn't very sporting. Go play with Mr.M27 instead. He's more your speed.

SunofaBeach14

All the back and forth about pizza is hilarious and sad. I suspect so many people wouldn't know good pizza if it hit them in the face.

Yours truly,

The pizza snob

I hear Alice Waters makes a wonderful cauliflower pizza with ingredients sourced no more than 50 feet from her.

Oh no, SunofaBeach will be back here soon to tell you to stop name dropping and get out a little more. He likely has something against bay area chefs. Because we all know that Alice Waters has no idea what she's doing.

Now THAT is butt hurt!

lindsey1979

All the back and forth about pizza is hilarious and sad. I suspect so many people wouldn't know good pizza if it hit them in the face.

Yours truly,

The pizza snob

I hear Alice Waters makes a wonderful cauliflower pizza with ingredients sourced no more than 50 feet from her.

Oh no, SunofaBeach will be back here soon to tell you to stop name dropping and get out a little more. He likely has something against bay area chefs. Because we all know that Alice Waters has no idea what she's doing.

Now THAT is butt hurt!

You must hang out with some pretty big crybabies if you think that is what butthurt looks like...

SunofaBeach14

Nothing like taking a nice 48 hour risen hand stretched skin, a little fresh ground garlic and basil in the dough, covered with the toppings you like, but that crust.

Those little heel ends that so few seem to like? Man, drizzle a little honey on that, and you know what? Even Tom Keller will stfu and eat the hell out of it.

Oh, and a relevant amusement:
http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/5607-a-four-year-old-reviews-the-french-laundry

pfft, french laundry.

"It tastes like a tinker bell popsicle." - So much win right there.

I would quite literally hump a popsicle that tasted like fairies.

That's not weird.

Not at all. :laugh:

Can we talk about Per Se now?

Sure. Let's see if they have spaghetti squash pasta and mashed banana ice cream. I'll be down on Spring Street eating pizza

PRMinx

Nothing like taking a nice 48 hour risen hand stretched skin, a little fresh ground garlic and basil in the dough, covered with the toppings you like, but that crust.

Those little heel ends that so few seem to like? Man, drizzle a little honey on that, and you know what? Even Tom Keller will stfu and eat the hell out of it.

Oh, and a relevant amusement:
http://www.thebolditalic.com/articles/5607-a-four-year-old-reviews-the-french-laundry

pfft, french laundry.

"It tastes like a tinker bell popsicle." - So much win right there.

I would quite literally hump a popsicle that tasted like fairies.

That's not weird.

Not at all. :laugh:

Can we talk about Per Se now?

Sure. Let's see if they have spaghetti squash pasta and mashed banana ice cream. I'll be down on Spring Street eating pizza

I just want to know if they serve a nice brunch.

You wouldn't be referring to Lombardi's by any chance would you?