An argument with a person in shape = no way to win

thedarkwombat

I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)

I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.

I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.

You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?

Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."

Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.

stealthq

It's not a no-win. You've lost 23 lbs, right? Pretty much proves that you can do what you're doing to lose weight.

But you'd have to be willing to tell them you're losing (if they haven't noticed yet) and how fast to make your point. In the office is not always the best time and place.

thedarkwombat

We were at lunch. Yes I have told them Ive lost some weight and they said "well there you go".

tracie_minus100

Yeah, I'm in a local Facebook weight loss group and there's always the typical "buzz" words going around there. "Cleanse", "detox", "clean eating", advice to eat several small meals a day, stop eating after a certain time, only eat carbs at certain times of the day (and these are said as though they are a proven method of losing weight) etc etc. I say nothing because I feel like no one would value what I have to say because I'm so big. It's very frustrating. Obvioulsy because I'm fat I'm not exactly a great poster girl for weight loss. But I have read and researched a whole heck of a lot and know what I'm talking about. But I feel like that doesn't matter and won't until I am smaller.

yopeeps025

You do realize why when you eat breakfast you are hungrier throughout the day right?

He said prove what you say works right. Well that is more motivation right?

BigLifter10

This is an issue I see frequently with people. Someone gets told something (usually unsolicited), then thinks about it too much and wonders if they are doing the right thing (or sometimes automatically discards the words because they don't believe them or whatever the case). Then it appears to come down to this: Prove them wrong mentality. I have never understood this because, in my experience, if people think you can't do something - but then you do it....so what? Those people who doubt, usually don't care anyway, so you are only proving something to yourself. Maybe that is what it takes for some people, but to prove it (whatever your personal "it" may be) to others....seems pointless. In these cases it is good to just smile and say thank you for your input. You don't have to take it or like it. He may change his viewpoint in the future as his experiences change. He can do it his way, you can do it yours.

Personally, I do not eat before bed because I wake up hungrier and feeling heavy. I cut myself off earlier in the evening. On those times where I do eat before bed....I just account for it and work around the feelings in my body. I just prefer not eating after 7 pm. for optimal functioning.

thedarkwombat

Yes I know why eating breakfast makes me hungry.
Morning is when your cortisol peaks and that has an impact on your insulin secretion.
For some people this might not be that much of a big deal, for me, it is off the charts.

Chrisparadise579

While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.

vismal

You could go through the trouble of providing him with all the relevant research that not only proves him wrong but also proves you correct, you could spend time highlighting all the best parts of all the studies, you could really spend some time getting nice and presentable. He'll take one look and go "would you rather trust real results or what some scientist says." So in other words...don't bother. It's like arguing global warming, politics, or religion.

williams969

That type of argument is, unfortunately, "un-winnable." It's sad that some people are convinced that an overweight person can't possibly be smart enough to research the science for themselves and make their own sound choices, and that all "in shape" people are the only source of "truth."

Sigh, I am one to just say, nicely and without sarcastic affect, "Thank you for taking interest in my well-being. That means a lot. I will take your advice under consideration," and continue on with yourself.

morehealthymatt

...and he's 27. I also was never wrong at 27.

vismal

While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.

A calorie is a unit of measurement. Saying all calories are not the same is like saying all inches are not the same. Sure macro nutrients are important but that doesn't mean that all calories are not the "the approximate amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius"

What do you think happens to those calories if you eat them before bed? They are either used as energy or stored as fuel. If you then don't eat calories for the first half of the next day (because you save calories for before bed again) what do you think the body will use for fuel. STORED ENERGY. Timing makes no difference whatsoever.

RGv2

While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.

For weight loss?...you know, within the context of their discussion?

You could go through the trouble of providing him with all the relevant research that not only proves him wrong but also proves you correct, you could spend time highlighting all the best parts of all the studies, you could really spend some time getting nice and presentable. He'll take one look and go "would you rather trust real results or what some scientist says." So in other words...don't bother. It's like arguing global warming, politics, or religion.

I'd still go with this. I had the same argument and was told I'm too book smart, it doesn't work in the real world that way....I still got in the last word though.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

usmcmp

While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.

Your body doesn't process calories immediately for energy. Some people don't feel like they have energy until they eat breakfast, but others function just fine. That's an individual preference. Just because your body didn't get 500 calories worth of energy at 8 am doesn't mean it won't find the energy it needs (from glycogen stores or fat).

OP: Some fights just aren't worth having. Sometimes there are "more optimal" ways of doing things, but if what you are doing is working there's not much sense in fighting about it with people that don't have to live with the consequences of the choices.

williams969

While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.

No. Of course macros matter for overall health, as long as they fall within a person's calorie goal. The average food availability in first world society provides an ample variety of macro nutrients; i.e. if you're eating a variety of foods, and enough of it, you're going to give your body what it needs.

And, sigh, sorry I suck at providing the links to the research, but meal timing has an insignificant impact on our bodies.

Liftng4Lis

...and he's 27. I also was never wrong at 27.

^This

hill8570

Opinions are like *kitten*. Everyone's got one, and no one wants to look at the other guy's.

If I've learned anything in the 50+ years I've been above ground, is that there is always some bogeyman food or behavior and some ultra righteous food or behavior, both of which eventually turn out to be no better and no worse than any typical food or behavior.

Just stick with what works for you and move on.

ShannonS921

While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.

A calorie is a unit of measurement. Saying all calories are not the same is like saying all inches are not the same. Sure macro nutrients are important but that doesn't mean that all calories are not the "the approximate amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius"

What do you think happens to those calories if you eat them before bed? They are either used as energy or stored as fuel. If you then don't eat calories for the first half of the next day (because you save calories for before bed again) what do you think the body will use for fuel. STORED ENERGY. Timing makes no difference whatsoever.

^All of this.


It's an unwinnable argument simply because the person you are arguing is convinced of his own superiority. Even if you lost every pound you wanted to lose and lifted until you looked like a Greek god, he would still argue with you simply because he wants to be argumentative and always has to be right. Don't sweat it...just keep doing what you're doing and you'll be just fine.

astroophys

Don't stress about it. You are losing weight for you. You have nothing to prove to others.

Maybe he was referring to long-term health instead of weight loss. Or it could just be because he is 27. I am 27, too. Sometimes, I think I should just wait a decade to share my opinion because, odds are, I am wrong hahaha, and I will be embarrassed of my current opinions ten years from now.

CLM1227

I'm of the opinion that people who have never had to lose weight have no idea how to lose weight.

Heck people that need to lose weight largely don't know how either!

What he knows is maintenance, appetite control, and fueling activity.

This guy knows:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/health/drew-manning-fit2fat2fit-lessons/

Lesa_Sass

Sometimes walking away from an argument is more important than winning it.

Branstin

Just because he is thin doesn’t mean he knows the facts. Unfortunately, you will always encounter people who don’t know and aren’t willing to reprogram their way of thinking to fit the 21th Century.

jasonmh630

Yeah, until they realize I've lost almost 50 pounds by not worrying WHEN I eat and just focusing on a deficit.

twrobbel

I would have turned the tables on him and challenge him to eat 3000 calories a day during the times he clainms eating would be fine and see if he gains weight.

Commander_Keen

I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)

I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.

I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.

You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?

Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."

Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.

So let me tell you the flaw that you are going to run into

You will find 50 people here on MFP that will agree with him and his style and all 50 people will have lost weight.
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will have lost weight with your style.
But I will tell you this.
"calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day" that is not true.. here is why.
Take 1500 calories of fish, chicken, turkey + fruits and vegges vs pure corn oil.
What will the 1500 calories of protein & fruits and veggies do to your body.
What will the 1500 calories of oil do to your body.
How will the oil effect your body.

BinaryPulsar

I find that sometimes it is better just not to discuss all aspects, of all topics, with all people. It's ok to disagree with someone without needing to change them.

vismal

So let me tell you the flaw that you are going to run into

You will find 50 people here on MFP that will agree with him and his style and all 50 people will have lost weight.
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will have lost weight with your style.
But I will tell you this.
"calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day" that is not true.. here is why.
Take 1500 calories of fish, chicken, turkey + fruits and vegges vs pure corn oil.
What will the 1500 calories of protein & fruits and veggies do to your body.
What will the 1500 calories of oil do to your body.
How will the oil effect your body.

Two main reasons why your argument is invalid. First, find me just one person on MFP who eats 1500 calories of oil and calls it a day. Please, just one person who chugged some oil and clicked the "complete this entry" button. People always make these asinine examples. They are not grounded in reality so why make them?

Second, if a calorie from the oil is "the approximate amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius.", then what is a calorie from the protein, fruits or veggies? CALORIES ARE CALORIES, just like inches are inches, pints are pints, and metric tons are metric tons.

SezxyStef

I feel for you...

There are people all around me losing weight...family, friends and co workers and everyone has their own method...and they all seem to work for losing weight...

My thing is this...yes you can be an expert of losing weight...esp if you do and believe that sort of stuff...ie don't eat before bed, detox, cleanse, clean etc...

You will be an expert at losing because you will lose the same 10, 20 or 30lbs repeatedly, which btw I am currently watching most of them

I would rather not be an expert at weight loss...I want to be good at maintaining thanks.

edited for spelling (extra word)

jdhoward_101

You do realize why when you eat breakfast you are hungrier throughout the day right?

He said prove what you say works right. Well that is more motivation right?

Damn straight! You stick to your method and you show him!

AglaeaC

I wouldn't bother wasting my energy on such a pointless discussion. They don't matter and their opinions don't matter, when you look at your lifestyle change. You know what you know and believe in what you believe, the rest is irrelevant. Save your energy and use it on something more productive. Silence would have meant you won the argument.