An argument with a person in shape = no way to win
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Like others have said, a calorie is a calorie. I also agree that you will be better served by eating calories that provide good nutrition vs eating a bag of Cheetos but I do not have a mathematical way to prove that, its just a gut feeling. I would come up with ways to trick my body into thinking it had an endless supply of food coming. I workout in the morning and then proceed to eat roughly every two hours. Big breakfast, an apple snack, a protein shake, lunch followed by some tree nuts and some cheese etc. The idea was to keep my metabolism up and limit hunger. Does this work? well in my mind yes but I will never really know for sure. I do know that it motivated me to lose weight. So I say do what gets you results and ignore the time of day theories just like the miracle pills and count calories to get a deficit. Throw in any thing else the keeps it interesting but the deficit is a must.0
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I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
I know, I know. You just have to prove you are right.
My husband made a big deal out of me still eating dark chocolate. 45 pounds later and he's admitted that my way works.0 -
I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
So let me tell you the flaw that you are going to run into
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will agree with him and his style and all 50 people will have lost weight.
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will have lost weight with your style.
But I will tell you this.
"calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day" that is not true.. here is why.
Take 1500 calories of fish, chicken, turkey + fruits and vegges vs pure corn oil.
What will the 1500 calories of protein & fruits and veggies do to your body.
What will the 1500 calories of oil do to your body.
How will the oil effect your body.
What an awful example to prove calorie is not a calorie.0 -
Meh, you just agree to disagree and part ways at that point. He's doing what works for him, and you're doing what's obviously working for you.
If he wants to eat "rabbit food," let him. All the more noms for you.0 -
Two main reasons why your argument is invalid. First, find me just one person on MFP who eats 1500 calories of oil and calls it a day. Please, just one person who chugged some oil and clicked the "complete this entry" button. People always make these asinine examples. They are not grounded in reality so why make them?So let me tell you the flaw that you are going to run into
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will agree with him and his style and all 50 people will have lost weight.
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will have lost weight with your style.
But I will tell you this.
"calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day" that is not true.. here is why.
Take 1500 calories of fish, chicken, turkey + fruits and vegges vs pure corn oil.
What will the 1500 calories of protein & fruits and veggies do to your body.
What will the 1500 calories of oil do to your body.
How will the oil effect your body.
Second, if a calorie from the oil is "the approximate amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius.", then what is a calorie from the protein, fruits or veggies? CALORIES ARE CALORIES, just like inches are inches, pints are pints, and metric tons are metric tons.
The bolded statement... My computer needed a bath anyway.0 -
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I find that sometimes it is better just not to discuss all aspects, of all topics, with all people. It's ok to disagree with someone without needing to change them.
This. Who cares what somebody else thinks if you're losing the weight? Just keep losing the weight, never bring it up again, and let the results speak for themselves.0 -
So let me tell you the flaw that you are going to run into
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will agree with him and his style and all 50 people will have lost weight.
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will have lost weight with your style.
But I will tell you this.
"calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day" that is not true.. here is why.
Take 1500 calories of fish, chicken, turkey + fruits and vegges vs pure corn oil.
What will the 1500 calories of protein & fruits and veggies do to your body.
What will the 1500 calories of oil do to your body.
How will the oil effect your body.
This is false. A calorie is a unit of measurement, meaning each individual calorie is just that... a calorie. That's like saying a meter is not a meter. For weight loss, all you need is a calorie deficit. Where those calories come from has ZERO bearing on weight loss. Now for overall health, it's a different story.0 -
A calorie is a unit of measurement. Saying all calories are not the same is like saying all inches are not the same. Sure macro nutrients are important but that doesn't mean that all calories are not the "the approximate amount of energy needed to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius"While most of what you said was correct, a calorie is not a calorie, the macro nutrients matter ALOT. And while eating that 1000 cals close to bed wont matter for weight loss too much that is 1000 calories less your body has to use throughout the other parts of the day.
What do you think happens to those calories if you eat them before bed? They are either used as energy or stored as fuel. If you then don't eat calories for the first half of the next day (because you save calories for before bed again) what do you think the body will use for fuel. STORED ENERGY. Timing makes no difference whatsoever.
Hmmm... I dunno about this "all inches are the same" business. I've been with my husband for almost 15 years, so my memory may be a bit spotty, but I definitely remember not all inches being the same.
Now I'm picturing OP's friends defensively saying, "It's not the amount of calories you guys! It's totally the way you use them." :bigsmile:0 -
"You cannot reason with an unreasonable man. " -Unknown0
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This is why I avoid talking about health and fitness at work. The myths are too embedded in people's minds.0
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I find that sometimes it is better just not to discuss all aspects, of all topics, with all people. It's ok to disagree with someone without needing to change them.
^^This is how I get through my days intact! Especially at work. I wear my iPod in the teachers lounge where I work so I don't have to listen to people wax eloquent about any variety of topics. Congratulations on getting healthy!0 -
I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.0 -
I have a friend who used to argue with me about nutrition. I did find some of her points to be valid and did change some of my opinions as a result of some of her insight plus my own research/trial and error, etc. Anyway, she eventually completed a nutrition degree.
One day, she mentioned that she was having a hard time losing weight....I secretly wanted to say, "oh...but I thought you could eat all of the meat and fat that you wanted,b/c the ONLY thing that effects weight are carbs." And to say, "oh...but I thought that exercise isn't important, b/c the ONLY thing that effects weight are carbs."
Of course, I didn't say it. I just kept eating carbs and exercising.0 -
When has arguing with anybody about anything ever been a win situation ?
Just thank him for sharing his point of view. What you choose to do with his information is entirely up to you.0 -
A calories is a calorie as it relates to weight loss, but not overall health. 100 calories of broccoli give you good things and 100 calories of Oreos give you bad things. You'll lose the same amount of fat, but you'll be healthier on the fresh produce than on the lard.
No, if you're 100 pounds overweight and arguing eating habits with a thin person who eats healthy food, you won't win. Don't even try. When you do "prove it" and are thin, nobody will tell you that your method of losing won't work. If you're eating junk food, they may continue to tell you it's bad for you. But they'll ask you what you did to lose the weight and will believe it worked for you. So many people will ask so often that you'll get tired of the question.
Until you "prove it", just thank them for their advice. It's always good to hear new ideas. You might find one you like. But stick with what works for you. You'll get your turn to be taken seriously. I promise!
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Hmmm... I dunno about this "all inches are the same" business. I've been with my husband for almost 15 years, so my memory may be a bit spotty, but I definitely remember not all inches being the same.
Now I'm picturing OP's friends defensively saying, "It's not the amount of calories you guys! It's totally the way you use them." :bigsmile:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA0 -
I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
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Guys. IIFYM always = "I eat nothing but twinkies," duh.0
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Why do you even care what hs says? You do what works for you. He does what works for him. Move on and find something constructive to do with your time and energy, rather than trying to change his mind....0
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Sometimes walking away from an argument is more important than winning it.
could not have said it any better0 -
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A calories is a calorie as it relates to weight loss, but not overall health. 100 calories of broccoli give you good things and 100 calories of Oreos give you bad things. You'll lose the same amount of fat, but you'll be healthier on the fresh produce than on the lard.
No, if you're 100 pounds overweight and arguing eating habits with a thin person who eats healthy food, you won't win. Don't even try. When you do "prove it" and are thin, nobody will tell you that your method of losing won't work. If you're eating junk food, they may continue to tell you it's bad for you. But they'll ask you what you did to lose the weight and will believe it worked for you. So many people will ask so often that you'll get tired of the question.
Until you "prove it", just thank them for their advice. It's always good to hear new ideas. You might find one you like. But stick with what works for you. You'll get your turn to be taken seriously. I promise!
So why does he need to be thin to know what he is doing. Well the best personal trainers are former athletes right? No way you can learn from someone who does not practice what they preach.0 -
Guys. IIFYM always = "I eat nothing but twinkies," duh.
QFT.0 -
This has happened to me.
I decided then that I will not ever try to make a point to anyone unless they sincerely ask for my input. It is simple math and simple science. But to each his own... you know what works, and what feels right for you.
Congrats on your weight loss thus far!!! :drinker:
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This thread already has so much awesome.0
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Maybe I missed it with all the oil and sugar talk (now I want cake...thanks everyone!) but...how much did this thin person lose? Or has this person been thin their whole lives?0
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This is why I avoid talking about health and fitness at work. The myths are too embedded in people's minds.
^Dude, seriously
It's the first rule of fitclub...
And what's the second rule?0 -
I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
Sure, you're right.
OTOH, there's nothing wrong with not eating a pizza right before you go to bed, either.
If I was telling someone I didn't agree with IF, and they said it worked (which makes me assume you practice it, correct?), yes, I would wonder if they had any practical experience (and not just using Google), if they were overweight.
And the guy eats "rabbit food?" Rabbits aren't typically associated with significant protein intake, so I question what kind of "good shape" he is in. Or, you're just trying to discredit him, by disparaging his dietary choices.
Nah, that wouldn't be the case.0
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