An argument with a person in shape = no way to win
Replies
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He doesn't need to be thin to know what he's doing. He needs to be thin for the coworkers to take him seriously.A calories is a calorie as it relates to weight loss, but not overall health. 100 calories of broccoli give you good things and 100 calories of Oreos give you bad things. You'll lose the same amount of fat, but you'll be healthier on the fresh produce than on the lard.
No, if you're 100 pounds overweight and arguing eating habits with a thin person who eats healthy food, you won't win. Don't even try. When you do "prove it" and are thin, nobody will tell you that your method of losing won't work. If you're eating junk food, they may continue to tell you it's bad for you. But they'll ask you what you did to lose the weight and will believe it worked for you. So many people will ask so often that you'll get tired of the question.
Until you "prove it", just thank them for their advice. It's always good to hear new ideas. You might find one you like. But stick with what works for you. You'll get your turn to be taken seriously. I promise!
So why does he need to be thin to know what he is doing. Well the best personal trainers are former athletes right? No way you can learn from someone who does not practice what they preach.
I don't know who the best personal trainers are.
Learning from someone is more an issue of trust. If you don't trust the person teaching you, it will be difficult to learn from them. I, personally can learn from someone who doesn't practice what they preach. Some would feel the hypocrisy was too much, but not me. I get "Do as I say, not as I do." It depends on who is doing the talking, whether it makes sense, that kind of thing. 0 -
In the Middle Ages most people were thin. I don't know if they ate just before going to bed, but I do know most people in the Middle Ages had intestinal parasites. To stop future arguments and somewhat tongue in cheek, have you asked him if he's been tested? They are on the increase I believe. That should cause room for pause as you walk away. I'm just an old meanie sigh.I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.0 -
It can be a waste of time talking health and fitness with some people. Everyone has their own opinions on what is the "real" or "right" way to lose weight. Also many people believe in the so called myths like eating before bed is bad. We may preach about the scientific facts, but the majority of what people read in magazines, hear in the news, watch on tv shows...etc....has everything to do with all that BS (clean eating, do not eat 2 hours before bed, never skip breakfast and whatever else). So while we sit back and research facts, they don't. Therefore don't even bother.
Just keep up what your doing and when you are at an average weight, tell them how you did it 0 -
[/quote]
In the Middle Ages most people were thin. I don't know if they ate just before going to bed, but I do know most people in the Middle Ages had intestinal parasites. To stop future arguments and somewhat tongue in cheek, have you asked him if he's been tested? They are on the increase I believe. That should cause room for pause as you walk away. I'm just an old meanie sigh.
[/quote]
Hah!!! This cracked me up!!0 -
You know what they say.
Arguing with someone who has no idea what he's talking about is like playing chess with a pigeon.0 -
Hmmm... I dunno about this "all inches are the same" business. I've been with my husband for almost 15 years, so my memory may be a bit spotty, but I definitely remember not all inches being the same.
Now I'm picturing OP's friends defensively saying, "It's not the amount of calories you guys! It's totally the way you use them." :bigsmile:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
^this. best part of this thread. Almost made me spit out my herbal detox cleanse made with organic green tea extract, chia seeds, and unicorn horns.
I have to say I've made this exact same mistake and I did it somewhat recently. I was talking with a friend of mine who has always been very thin, low BF, and he started hitting the gym really hard and bulking up and I thought I could 'talk shop' with him because I've been lurking on these forums for a while gathering information and buying books (NROL4W, etc). Long story short, he basically said I should do lots of cardio, low weight high reps and eat a low calorie low fat diet until I'm skinny, then worry about lifting heavy. I didn't want to offend him or anything, but I have no interest in being skinny. Soooo, that sucked.
Yesterday I was reading the NROL4W (ETA @work) and taking notes, today I'm checking out the fitness center in my apartment complex to see if they have the equipment I need. But I found myself insanely embarrassed by even having the book at my desk and kept hiding it when my coworkers came by. There's this idea that fat people shouldn't bother and I don't want to argue with people about it.0 -
So let me tell you the flaw that you are going to run into
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will agree with him and his style and all 50 people will have lost weight.
You will find 50 people here on MFP that will have lost weight with your style.
But I will tell you this.
"calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day" that is not true.. here is why.
Take 1500 calories of fish, chicken, turkey + fruits and vegges vs pure corn oil.
What will the 1500 calories of protein & fruits and veggies do to your body.
What will the 1500 calories of oil do to your body.
How will the oil effect your body.
Since we are posting derp scenarios, I'll throw mine into the ring:
1500 calories of ice cream vs. 1500 calories of raw, plain spinach.
I am choosing the ice cream.0 -
Define "win". Sounds like both have you have found a way to meet your fitness goals that works for you.0
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I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
I personally don't agree that a calorie is calorie- 3000 calories of veggies will be better for you then 3000 calories in candy. So no!, a calorie isn't a calorie. You also made mention that everyone is different... very true everyone is different which more so supports the fact that a calorie is not calorie. 100 calories in carbs has a different effect/reaction on your body than 100 calories of protein same goes with fats... again a calorie isn't a calorie!
I hate IIFYM if you can't tell, you know IIFYM started on bodybuilding.com as a guys common answer to stupid questions ... now it's science??? I don't think so. It works more so because people are in a deficit who've never dieted but it's not really healthy or good IMO.
You should be eating breakfast, your hungry all day because your metabolism is more active.(eat more protein at breakfast could be what you eat that is making you feel hungry, protein takes longer to digest [again a calorie isn't a calorie]) Eating right before bed and depending on what it is will or can be stored as fat, You know carbs cause your body to enter into a storage mode where everything you eat for roughly 4 hours will be stored as fat?
Brad0 -
EVERYBODY is now a profesional all of a sudden since I started losing weight. In shape or not. Ie: Don't eat after a certain time, don't start weight lifting until you lose more weight, etc. I now just smile and nod and go on as I'm doing. I don't need to convince anyone otherwise, (Not that you ever could anyway) & I don't need to feel "right" or like I've won an argument. I'm doing fine & that's good enough for me.0
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A calorie means the energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water through 1 °C (now usually defined as 4.1868 joules).
A calories is not a calorie. 4.1868 joules does not equal 4.1868 joules0 -
What is rabbit food? Fresh fruits and veggies?
If you wanted to argue with me that a calorie is a calorie, then I would take issue as well. Since I don't think it is. And yes, I have studied this and know a little ( a lot) about biochemistry. In general, yes, you should consume less calories than you expend. But not all calories are created equal. If you consume 100 calories from protein, only 80-70 calories actually hit your liver. If you eat 100 calories from fat or carbs, 85-95 calories will enter the liver to be metabolized. The more calories that enter the liver equals more fat cells.
Nearly 100% of calories from fructose enters the liver! while only 20% of calories from glucose enters the liver.
A calorie is not a calorie.
Calories in vs calories out... Yes. But depending on where you get your calories it may or may not work out very well for you.0 -
OP, I have run into this on occasion, the old cal in vs cal out argument. It is unfortunate people discredit those who don't look the part...
Just like when someone snickers about me starting with an empty barbell while doing a linear progression strength training program, I just think, the day will come when the results will speak loud and clear...I hope lol.0 -
What is rabbit food? Fresh fruits and veggies?
If you wanted to argue with me that a calorie is a calorie, then I would take issue as well. Since I don't think it is. And yes, I have studied this and know a little ( a lot) about biochemistry. In general, yes, you should consume less calories than you expend. But not all calories are created equal. If you consume 100 calories from protein, only 80-70 calories actually hit your liver. If you eat 100 calories from fat or carbs, 85-95 calories will enter the liver to be metabolized. The more calories that enter the liver equals more fat cells.
Nearly 100% of calories from fructose enters the liver! while only 20% of calories from glucose enters the liver.
A calorie is not a calorie.
Calories in vs calories out... Yes. But depending on where you get your calories it may or may not work out very well for you.
Actually according to Webster's dictionary a calorie...
CALORIE
2
b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie
really is just that...a calorie.
CALORIE
2
b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie0 -
A calorie means the energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water through 1 °C (now usually defined as 4.1868 joules).
A calories is not a calorie. 4.1868 joules does not equal 4.1868 joules
If you were to place that energy into various conductors (metaphor here being our metabolic pathways), one conductor may transport all 4.1868 joules while another may only carry half of that.0 -
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
How is that weird? Please explain. Yes, I think sugar is awful for you. I think sugar makes people more hungry and makes you crave, you know, more calories...0 -
A calorie is a calorie outside of the human body. Once you consume it the metabolic pathways are different depending on the calorie source. Eating 3500 calories of fructose will result in more weight gain than 3500 calories from protein. The energy expended just to break down the amino acids in protein is greater than the energy needed to metabolize fructose.
Your body does not treat all calories equally, so let me amend that.... A calorie is not a calorie once it's consumed.What is rabbit food? Fresh fruits and veggies?
If you wanted to argue with me that a calorie is a calorie, then I would take issue as well. Since I don't think it is. And yes, I have studied this and know a little ( a lot) about biochemistry. In general, yes, you should consume less calories than you expend. But not all calories are created equal. If you consume 100 calories from protein, only 80-70 calories actually hit your liver. If you eat 100 calories from fat or carbs, 85-95 calories will enter the liver to be metabolized. The more calories that enter the liver equals more fat cells.
Nearly 100% of calories from fructose enters the liver! while only 20% of calories from glucose enters the liver.
A calorie is not a calorie.
Calories in vs calories out... Yes. But depending on where you get your calories it may or may not work out very well for you.
Actually according to Webster's dictionary a calorie...
CALORIE
2
b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie
really is just that...a calorie.
CALORIE
2
b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie0 -
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
How is that weird? Please explain. Yes, I think sugar is awful for you. I think sugar makes people more hungry and makes you crave, you know, more calories...
OK, well, just like your little office friend, you should re-phrase to "Yes, I think sugar is awful for ME. I think sugar makes ME more hungry and makes ME crave, you know, more calories..."0 -
A calorie means the energy needed to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water through 1 °C (now usually defined as 4.1868 joules).
A calories is not a calorie. 4.1868 joules does not equal 4.1868 joules
1 calorie is needed to raise 1g of water 1°C, but this calorie is not the same as a food calorie which actually refers to a kilocalorie, or 1,000 calories. Technically speaking, one kilocalorie, or one food calorie, is the amount of energy needed to raise 1 kilogram of water 1°C.0 -
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
How is that weird? Please explain. Yes, I think sugar is awful for you. I think sugar makes people more hungry and makes you crave, you know, more calories...
OK, well, just like your little office friend, you should re-phrase to "Yes, I think sugar is awful for ME. I think sugar makes ME more hungry and makes ME crave, you know, more calories..."
Sugar is good for you and vital . But too much sugar causes leptin resistance, which does make you more hungry, which usually causes you to eat more.
Are you taking issue with him saying "sugar" instead of saying "too much sugar"?0 -
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I disagree. 3000 calories of veggies can be up to 20 pounds of food depending on the kind of veggies. That amount of food can seriously hurt your stomach permanently.I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
I personally don't agree that a calorie is calorie- 3000 calories of veggies will be better for you then 3000 calories in candy. So no!, a calorie isn't a calorie. You also made mention that everyone is different... very true everyone is different which more so supports the fact that a calorie is not calorie. 100 calories in carbs has a different effect/reaction on your body than 100 calories of protein same goes with fats... again a calorie isn't a calorie!
I hate IIFYM if you can't tell, you know IIFYM started on bodybuilding.com as a guys common answer to stupid questions ... now it's science??? I don't think so. It works more so because people are in a deficit who've never dieted but it's not really healthy or good IMO.
You should be eating breakfast, your hungry all day because your metabolism is more active.(eat more protein at breakfast could be what you eat that is making you feel hungry, protein takes longer to digest [again a calorie isn't a calorie]) Eating right before bed and depending on what it is will or can be stored as fat, You know carbs cause your body to enter into a storage mode where everything you eat for roughly 4 hours will be stored as fat?
Brad
Aaaaand... the rest you said is wrong too. A calorie is a calorie the same way heat is heat no matter if you built a campfire in your living room, sit in front of an electrical heater or have one of those cute little pocket heaters which cause heat by chemical reaction. IIFYM is science because it's based on the most basic physics on which your body operates. The need for energy of every action your body does and the conservation of energy law. Meaning your body can't just make energy out of nothing.
Breakfast doesn't make your metabolism more active than any meal at any point in the day is going to make it and again conservation of energy debunks "carbs will make you store everything as fat!".0 -
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And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
How is that weird? Please explain. Yes, I think sugar is awful for you. I think sugar makes people more hungry and makes you crave, you know, more calories...
OK, well, just like your little office friend, you should re-phrase to "Yes, I think sugar is awful for ME. I think sugar makes ME more hungry and makes ME crave, you know, more calories..."
Sugar is good for you and vital . But too much sugar causes leptin resistance, which does make you more hungry, which usually causes you to eat more.
Are you taking issue with him saying "sugar" instead of saying "too much sugar"?
Yes, I'll give you that. I'm not sure which he actually meant to say, but "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you" seems pretty damning. :laugh:0 -
Or I could have a BS is biochemistry.
You have been watching to many videos by Ludwig.
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
How is that weird? Please explain. Yes, I think sugar is awful for you. I think sugar makes people more hungry and makes you crave, you know, more calories...
OK, well, just like your little office friend, you should re-phrase to "Yes, I think sugar is awful for ME. I think sugar makes ME more hungry and makes ME crave, you know, more calories..."
Sugar is good for you and vital . But too much sugar causes leptin resistance, which does make you more hungry, which usually causes you to eat more.
Are you taking issue with him saying "sugar" instead of saying "too much sugar"?0 -
No Moar sugar!!!!!!!
Only Splenda.
And yet you made this priceless statement in the sugar thread: "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you"
Weird.
How is that weird? Please explain. Yes, I think sugar is awful for you. I think sugar makes people more hungry and makes you crave, you know, more calories...
OK, well, just like your little office friend, you should re-phrase to "Yes, I think sugar is awful for ME. I think sugar makes ME more hungry and makes ME crave, you know, more calories..."
Sugar is good for you and vital . But too much sugar causes leptin resistance, which does make you more hungry, which usually causes you to eat more.
Are you taking issue with him saying "sugar" instead of saying "too much sugar"?
Yes, I'll give you that. I'm not sure which he actually meant to say, but "Sugar is the worst thing on the planet for you" seems pretty damning. :laugh:0 -
This content has been removed.
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A calorie is a calorie outside of the human body. Once you consume it the metabolic pathways are different depending on the calorie source. Eating 3500 calories of fructose will result in more weight gain than 3500 calories from protein. The energy expended just to break down the amino acids in protein is greater than the energy needed to metabolize fructose.
Your body does not treat all calories equally, so let me amend that.... A calorie is not a calorie once it's consumed.What is rabbit food? Fresh fruits and veggies?
If you wanted to argue with me that a calorie is a calorie, then I would take issue as well. Since I don't think it is. And yes, I have studied this and know a little ( a lot) about biochemistry. In general, yes, you should consume less calories than you expend. But not all calories are created equal. If you consume 100 calories from protein, only 80-70 calories actually hit your liver. If you eat 100 calories from fat or carbs, 85-95 calories will enter the liver to be metabolized. The more calories that enter the liver equals more fat cells.
Nearly 100% of calories from fructose enters the liver! while only 20% of calories from glucose enters the liver.
A calorie is not a calorie.
Calories in vs calories out... Yes. But depending on where you get your calories it may or may not work out very well for you.
Actually according to Webster's dictionary a calorie...
CALORIE
2
b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie
really is just that...a calorie.
CALORIE
2
b : an amount of food having an energy-producing value of one large calorie
Some months back we had a thread where someone posted a study that, well, studied that. the difference in metabolic energy expenditure of eating plain protein and plain sugar (which is a stupid and unrealistic comparison to begin with as people like to point out rightfully so) is basically insignificant and came out to less than 100 calories difference.
Same with the amount of calories your body can use from another study. Same person, different diets with different macro ratios, no difference in the weight loss.
Those metabolic differences are either so small they're insignificant, or I guess the people writing the food labels already calculate that in when they write the calories on the package.
Either way, fact is your body cannot take more energy out of a food than is inside, only less under circumstances.0 -
I'm just wondering where he got the 4 hour fat storing mode idea from. I'm sure the u.s. Military would be interested in that.
Hey Brad. Nice try. You are just another person trying to use extreme examples to prove a point that isn't true. Who said 3000 calories of candy? Please show me one person. Your argument is weak. Your example is weak. Then you want to try to touch on the subject of TEF when you probably don't know enough about it.I recently got into an argument with my co-worker. He is young, 27, and in good shape. He basically eats rabbit food, which is fine. We got into a discussion and he started telling me that when you eat is more important than what you eat and the calories. He told me you should never eat before going to bed.(which has been dis-proven) Then he told me that intermittent fasting is bad because your metabolism slows to a halt throughout the day (which also has been greatly exaggerated)
I then went on my rant and explained to him that a calorie is a calorie and as long as you create a deficit each day, you are fine. I then asked him if I ate 3000 calories all day and stopped eating after 8pm vs 3000 calories but 1000 of it was right before going to bed he told me the latter is a lot worse.
I tried to explain to him that some things work differently for some people, and eating breakfast makes me hungry all day long. I tried to explain that weight loss is about simple math, calories in, calories out. etc. But as I was arguing both him and my other co-worker started looking at me funny. I knew what was going on.
You see, I am fat, and I could not possibly win this argument UNTIL I lose the weight right?
Just as my mind was thinking this, he said "then prove it."
Anyone else run into a no win situation like this? I mean, technically, the proof is right there, I am fat, he is thin. And even though he is thin for other reasons, it just is pointless to argue this.
I personally don't agree that a calorie is calorie- 3000 calories of veggies will be better for you then 3000 calories in candy. So no!, a calorie isn't a calorie. You also made mention that everyone is different... very true everyone is different which more so supports the fact that a calorie is not calorie. 100 calories in carbs has a different effect/reaction on your body than 100 calories of protein same goes with fats... again a calorie isn't a calorie!
I hate IIFYM if you can't tell, you know IIFYM started on bodybuilding.com as a guys common answer to stupid questions ... now it's science??? I don't think so. It works more so because people are in a deficit who've never dieted but it's not really healthy or good IMO.
You should be eating breakfast, your hungry all day because your metabolism is more active.(eat more protein at breakfast could be what you eat that is making you feel hungry, protein takes longer to digest [again a calorie isn't a calorie]) Eating right before bed and depending on what it is will or can be stored as fat, You know carbs cause your body to enter into a storage mode where everything you eat for roughly 4 hours will be stored as fat?
Brad
You Brad, are just another member making a weak argument with extreme examples that aren't the slightest realistic.
Weak.0 -
I just don't bother arguing.
Being right isn't important to me. Being healthy is. So as long as what I'm doing is working, I'll just keep doing it and people can say about it whatever they will.
I let my 60lb weight loss, 47bpm resting heart rate, ~100 cholesterol figure, completed triathlon, 2x bodyweight deadlift and general all round new found badassery do my talking for me.0
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