not trying to start a fight here but just a point...
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There is nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy, attractive, and fit. The problem comes when we assign value to a person based on their weight or other physical feature. Looking at someone who is lean and saying, "she/he must be some skinny b*tch" is just as bad as saying that someone is weak or lazy because they are overweight or obese. We need to stop equating appearance with value as a human being.0
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It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
okay, bit angry, how the hell have i tried to tear other people down????
This entire thread. Please stop. Re-assess, re-commit, and move forward.
that's funny. I don't think the OP was trying to stir anything up nor did I see her ever putting anyone else down. Unless I missed it, she just asked a question....
I agree. OP went from heavier to thinner, and got all kinds of grief for it from others. Im sure most of us ladies who have lost weight can relate to her situation and experiences. I know I can.
Anyone who has been in this community for longer than 5 minutes knows this thread is a dogwhistle thread. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt, this is a clarion call for some of the less welcoming of the community.
okay well i have no idea what a 'dogwhistle' thread is, i assume you mean i was looking to start a fight or something, but no,, i am actually seriously surprised how many people have put their opinion across, and its actually nice to see people of all backgrounds putting their point across. i have been a member of this site for over 2 years now, and have almost always actively posted about weight loss and other things, i've helped other people and others have helped me. I have lost my weight through this site and would NEVER purposefully try to start any disputes, i was just curious how other people felt about the personal experiences i have seen through my time as a size 18 through a size 4. yes maybe i was a little upset when writing the original post so if it came across badly i apologise, that was not however my intent.
I get what you're saying, but putting "not trying to start a fight" as part of your thread title means you knew it could be starting a fight...0 -
all i meant by that was letting people know that my post wasn't aggressive, because its hard to tell when no body language or voice tone is part of the conversation whether someone is being aggressive or rude in what they say0
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Good question... To me it seems that people assume slimmer people have a higher self esteem and can handle "jabs" better.
I agree with this. She didn't say slimmer people *could* handle jabs better...she said people *assume* this. I agree.
I also know I have friends who love to be told they're thin....while other people hate that word and want to be called "fit"...others want zero to be said at all. You can't please everyone all the time...I'm slowly learning that.
I've gotten to the point where I don't say anything other than "you look great" when someone has accomplished something awesome... for fear of offending someone.
That, and I don't feel it's appropriate to say negative things about anyone's body regardless of their amount of fat or lack thereof.0 -
I don't know what a dog whistle thread is, either. By context, I'm guessing that it's a call to people who hear something others do not. But I've no real idea what they're supposed to be hearing that nobody else does.
okay well i have no idea what a 'dogwhistle' thread is, i assume you mean i was looking to start a fight or something, but no,, i am actually seriously surprised how many people have put their opinion across, and its actually nice to see people of all backgrounds putting their point across. i have been a member of this site for over 2 years now, and have almost always actively posted about weight loss and other things, i've helped other people and others have helped me. I have lost my weight through this site and would NEVER purposefully try to start any disputes, i was just curious how other people felt about the personal experiences i have seen through my time as a size 18 through a size 4. yes maybe i was a little upset when writing the original post so if it came across badly i apologise, that was not however my intent.
There is a bit of a double standard here.
Those who are overweight and post about binging and guilt/sadness are encouraged and supported. Very few suggest help, even when the person discusses not being able to stop themselves from eating or feeling guilty about overeating.
Those who are underweight are immediately diagnosed with an eating disorder in an often dismissive and/or insulting way.
I think it's because people have yet to catch on that overeating is as much a mental issue as under eating.0 -
It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
Have you never hung out with a bunch of women? It's almost like it's their sole purpose in life to tear others down. (Of course not all, but a big majority)
People keep saying things that make me super thankful for my social circle and general environment. I think I need to be extra nice to everyone I know.
In other words, I hang out with women (in groups and otherwise) all the time, and have not found this to be true. Nor are most guys I know jerks.0 -
I wonder this all the time. I hate it when people tell me I am too skinny, or I need to eat more. OR If we are eating out and I only get salad or something from the "healthy" menu and I get made fun of. -__- But if I ate unhealthy and ate the things I WANT to eat, I would be overweight/obese and I would get told that I need to eat healthier. You cant win.0
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Possibly amongst hipsters and other horrible people. Out in the world of the norms though, it's not acceptable to do either. That's also not what PC means.
I just have to say, "hipsters and other horrible people" will be the title of a book I write someday.0 -
I don't think it matters one way or another. People will always find something to whine about or someone to cut down to make themselves feel better.
^^^^ this
people are insecure in their own skin so it makes them feel better to belittle others, fat, skinny, thin, bald hair, porcupine hair. whatever it is . they will find a reason to mock and judge because than they dont have to face their own insecurities within themselves and realize they lack confidence that others have. so they try to tear down other people..0 -
I am a woman, have had primarily female friends my whole life, and have never had friends like the women you describe. The "women are catty" stereotype is terrible.
It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
Have you never hung out with a bunch of women? It's almost like it's their sole purpose in life to tear others down. (Of course not all, but a big majority)0 -
I should probably mention that I don't agree with the double standard and I don't think that it's fair that an obese men is under less scrutiny than women - although I do believe that it is the case.0
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It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
Have you never hung out with a bunch of women? It's almost like it's their sole purpose in life to tear others down. (Of course not all, but a big majority)
this is truth! Between the mommy wars, the education wars, the work wars, body shape wars. (am I forgetting any?) We are our own worst enemy.
Mommy wars!!!!! Battle lines have been drawn, you must pick a side.0 -
I am a woman, have had primarily female friends my whole life, and have never had friends like the women you describe. The "women are catty" stereotype is terrible.
It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
Have you never hung out with a bunch of women? It's almost like it's their sole purpose in life to tear others down. (Of course not all, but a big majority)
Then maybe women should stop being catty. If you are fortunate enough to have close long term friends in your social circle, then great! I can see it being friendly and supportive. But for others, like myself, it's more difficult when you have to make new friends and try to filter out the catty women from the supportive women. My husband is military, so with each move I have to find a new circle of friends. In MY experience most women don't like outsiders, and will tear them down in the blink of an eye. Once they become familiar with you, and get to know you, their attitude usually changes, but in the beginning they are ruthless and down right mean. By the time I meet and develop a good group of friends who are supportive, it's time to move again. The process can be tedious and exhausting.... And emotionally draining.0 -
The first thing that comes to mind is "Fit Mom", Maria Kang’s "What's Your Excuse" photos. I thought her transformation was pretty incredible and would be inspiring for many women. What really surprised me was the amount of women who were insulted by her pictures and motto, and the number of negative comments by people who accused her of "fat-shaming" women. I can understand where some would be jealous and feel somewhat insulted, but that doesn't mean those people need to go into attack mode and start throwing their own insults against "Fit Mom". Insults, regardless of whether they are directed at overweight or underweight people, are wrong.0
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The first thing that comes to mind is "Fit Mom", Maria Kang’s "What's Your Excuse" photos. I thought her transformation was pretty incredible and would be inspiring for many women. What really surprised me was the amount of women who were insulted by her pictures and motto, and the number of negative comments by people who accused her of "fat-shaming" women. I can understand where some would be jealous and feel somewhat insulted, but that doesn't mean those people need to go into attack mode and start throwing their own insults against "Fit Mom". Insults, regardless of whether they are directed at overweight or underweight people, are wrong.
More ridiculous than the outrage (I can see how it could be taken as offensive, if you are overly sensitive) is the copy cats who posted pictures saying "what's my excuse? I put my kids needs ahead of my own, you should try it sometime". Or any of the 100 other similar accusations of Maria Kang being a terrible mother.0 -
I think that both are still unacceptable if you are a women - although I do think that it is more socially acceptable for a men to be obese since it historically has been a sign of success. Having said that, recent studies suggest that being underweight is actually healthier than being at "normal" weight and increases longevity.
http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/02/being-overweight-is-linked-to-lower-risk-of-mortality/
you'll find studies to suit the bias of people on both sides of that coin.
As for what I understand of being underweight, it can lead to a host of problems such as ammenhorea in women...which can then lead to hormonal imbalances and subsequently osteoperosis. If being underweight leads to longevity, but that longevity is going to have to be liberally peppered with drugs to keep my hormones in check in order to avoid loss of bone density because my body can't do it on it's own like it's supposed to anymore....i'll take being normal weight instead.0 -
I've never lived in a city longer than four years at the longest, so I totally get that it can be hard meeting a new circle of supportive lady friends. In my experience, though, being sweet and supportive earns you sweet and supportive friends. I haven't had the experience of being "torn down in the blink of an eye" since middle school.
I am a woman, have had primarily female friends my whole life, and have never had friends like the women you describe. The "women are catty" stereotype is terrible.
It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
Have you never hung out with a bunch of women? It's almost like it's their sole purpose in life to tear others down. (Of course not all, but a big majority)
Then maybe women should stop being catty. If you are fortunate enough to have close long term friends in your social circle, then great! I can see it being friendly and supportive. But for others, like myself, it's more difficult when you have to make new friends and try to filter out the catty women from the supportive women. My husband is military, so with each move I have to find a new circle of friends. In MY experience most women don't like outsiders, and will tear them down in the blink of an eye. Once they become familiar with you, and get to know you, their attitude usually changes, but in the beginning they are ruthless and down right mean. By the time I meet and develop a good group of friends who are supportive, it's time to move again. The process can be tedious and exhausting.... And emotionally draining.
I think if you assume that women are catty, you'll soon find yourself surrounded by catty women.0 -
Possibly amongst hipsters and other horrible people. Out in the world of the norms though, it's not acceptable to do either. That's also not what PC means.
I just have to say, "hipsters and other horrible people" will be the title of a book I write someday.
I'll read that book.0 -
I've never lived in a city longer than four years at the longest, so I totally get that it can be hard meeting a new circle of supportive lady friends. In my experience, though, being sweet and supportive earns you sweet and supportive friends. I haven't had the experience of being "torn down in the blink of an eye" since middle school.
I am a woman, have had primarily female friends my whole life, and have never had friends like the women you describe. The "women are catty" stereotype is terrible.
It's apparent. Stop trying to tear others down. It won't help you feel better.i have the lowest self esteem,
Instead, we should accept each other and work to lift each other up. Good luck.
Have you never hung out with a bunch of women? It's almost like it's their sole purpose in life to tear others down. (Of course not all, but a big majority)
Then maybe women should stop being catty. If you are fortunate enough to have close long term friends in your social circle, then great! I can see it being friendly and supportive. But for others, like myself, it's more difficult when you have to make new friends and try to filter out the catty women from the supportive women. My husband is military, so with each move I have to find a new circle of friends. In MY experience most women don't like outsiders, and will tear them down in the blink of an eye. Once they become familiar with you, and get to know you, their attitude usually changes, but in the beginning they are ruthless and down right mean. By the time I meet and develop a good group of friends who are supportive, it's time to move again. The process can be tedious and exhausting.... And emotionally draining.
I think if you assume that women are catty, you'll soon find yourself surrounded by catty women.
Anybody who knows me would laugh about this. I'm one of the most outgoing, nonjudgmental and welcoming person around. I give everybody a chance, and a second and a third. Not so much a fourth.0 -
Same here ... I haven't noticed. However I have noticed if you are skinny, you are more accepted in the world ...It is? Not that I'm aware of.0
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I have a feeling that a lot of people mean "you're too skinny" as a compliment. Nobody ever said, "You can never be too rich or too fat".0
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From what I've noticed:
It's still far more socially preferable to be on the thinner side.
It's still far more socially offensive to comment on a person being fat.
It's still far more socially acceptable to comment on a person being thin.
"Thin shaming" does exist. But since thin/fit/lean/ripped/etc is still the accepted preference, many people feel perfectly comfortable taking jabs, or having mock "concern", for thinner people and just expect them to take it. Why? Because the "privileged" class is expected to be so happy to be the preference that their feelings can't really be hurt.
So if a fat woman comes up to a thin woman and says "you need to eat a cheeseburger" it's not thought of generally as insulting as the thin woman rebutting "you need to eat a whole lot less cheeseburgers".
Of course thin people's feelings can be hurt. But fat people, in general, come up so ashamed and embarrassed about our bodies that many of us really didn't imagine that a thin person could be hurt by having their thinness, often the object of our envy, called out.
A) being thin/fit is not a privilege, as it takes hard work and dedication for most.
being told I need to be forcefed cheeseburger is as insensitive as me refuting that someone should eat less of them. Both are wrong. Both hurt and just because I may appear to have it all together, because I am priveleged to look the way I look doesn't mean I don't have feelings. I too can and have been embarrassed by things people lob at me for my appearance. Its a two-way street. We should all learn that its simply not ok on either side of the spectrum. Instead, we should encourage one another to be happy with ourselves and not try to make ourselves feel better by putting others down.
I'm not sure why you decided to quote me, but you're preaching to the choir.
I highlighted some of the reasons why "thin/fit shaming" happens, and why it's not widely thought as a problem, but I find the notion absurd.0 -
I may be in the minority here, but I think the whole trend of labeling any personal comment anyone makes as 'shaming' has gone way too far. When did the world become a place where no one ever expected to have to deal with comments they find unwelcome? Just as on the playground, there will always be mean people - and I do not claim to understand how the circumstances of their lives have unfortunately molded them to be so. It just has to be dealt with. There is NEVER going to be a time where we manage to PC out of existence every single comment about race, size, socioeconomic status, etc. If that is what you are looking for, you are doomed to disappointment. Even if it could be so, I would not want to live in a world like that. Want to know why? It is 100% fake. Just because people don't say something does not mean they are not thinking it, judging you, and slotting you into a certain category in their mental framework. I would absolutely rather know what people honestly think of me than have them pretend to be nice because of ever-increasing societal pressure to keep silent lest they hurt my special snowflake feelings.
I think the whole PC movement in general is doing us a much bigger disservice than it is helping. Well intentioned people are nervous now about discussing meaningful topics because they may possibly offend someone, somewhere. If honest discussion can't comfortably happen, then the root of interpersonal problems will never be reached and worked out. We will all just play nice and only say 'acceptable' things and never really get to know each other. That creates a group-think atmosphere that I find WAY more disturbing than a few people calling me fat. I would rather have to work at salving my ego than resign myself to becoming one of the Borg.
This is obviously not pertinent to the FB memes, car shouters and food throwers - because, in general, the only cure for *kitten* disease is time.0 -
Same here ... I haven't noticed. However I have noticed if you are skinny, you are more accepted in the world ...It is? Not that I'm aware of.
I have to agree with this. Being thin, generally speaking, is more socially acceptable. Being fit or thin is still the standard of beauty so it's not socially acceptable, on a large scale, to be overweight or fat.0 -
You're not in the minority. Or maybe you are, and I am too. The stupid FB memes irritate me, but so what? I can handle being irritated. Someone was snarky to me on the internet?? Oh noes! That doesn't mean that it's socially unacceptable to be skinny, it means that some people are kind of tactless. My friends who are fat, overall, hear way more cr@p about their bodies than I ever have about mine. (Of course, most of my friends, regardless of their size, don't have to be criticized about their bodies at all, because thankfully most people don't suck. When it comes up, though, it's unfortunately the larger girls who hear it more often.)I may be in the minority here, but I think the whole trend of labeling any personal comment anyone makes as 'shaming' has gone way too far. When did the world become a place where no one ever expected to have to deal with comments they find unwelcome? Just as on the playground, there will always be mean people - and I do not claim to understand how the circumstances of their lives have unfortunately molded them to be so. It just has to be dealt with. There is NEVER going to be a time where we manage to PC out of existence every single comment about race, size, socioeconomic status, etc. If that is what you are looking for, you are doomed to disappointment. Even if it could be so, I would not want to live in a world like that. Want to know why? It is 100% fake. Just because people don't say something does not mean they are not thinking it, judging you, and slotting you into a certain category in their mental framework. I would absolutely rather know what people honestly think of me than have them pretend to be nice because of ever-increasing societal pressure to keep silent lest they hurt my special snowflake feelings.
I think the whole PC movement in general is doing us a much bigger disservice than it is helping. Well intentioned people are nervous now about discussing meaningful topics because they may possibly offend someone, somewhere. If honest discussion can't comfortably happen, then the root of interpersonal problems will never be reached and worked out. We will all just play nice and only say 'acceptable' things and never really get to know each other. That creates a group-think atmosphere that I find WAY more disturbing than a few people calling me fat. I would rather have to work at salving my ego than resign myself to becoming one of the Borg.
This is obviously not pertinent to the FB memes, car shouters and food throwers - because, in general, the only cure for *kitten* disease is time.0
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