My no carb dieting needs work. Help!

irishsteelers

I'm new to these boards, so if I'm on the wrong one I apologize.

I'm a 31 Male and really started dieting a few years ago. I was 270 and wasn't slowing down. I got my weight down through dieting to 215lbs. In December of this past year, I had gotten to 230 and was worried I could be gaining again. At Christmas time I took a couple months off from work to go run a start-up (doing well). So right after Christmas I finally decided to use that gym membership every day......and boy did I get hooked. I was going every morning for a couple hours a day and loving it. I feel in love with building muscle and making myself look better. The first week of February I was talking to a buddy who is a big fitness nut, and told him I wasn't getting exactly where I wanted to be. I was down to 215 but just looked "puffy" at night, when in the morning I looked good in the mirror. He recommended going on a "Keto" diet because he thought I was taking in to many carbs. My body was starting to take shape, but I really wanted to lose the belly fat more.

I started on the Keto diet on February 7th and ran it hardcore all the way up until the end of June. I had one cheat meal a week, but for the most part just ate tons of protein and lean fat. I decided to take a month off from it, because I was just feeling it wasn't working for me anymore. This is what my diet consisted of.

Breakfast - 4 to 6 scrambled eggs w/cheese

10am- 48g whey protein shake with two spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

Lunch- 8oz of chicken, steak, or shrimp. I got to doing a Quest protein bar because of no appetite.

2pm- 48g whey protein shake with two spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

Dinner - Anywhere from 8-16oz of chicken, steak, shrimp, or salmon.

10pm- 48g whey protein shake with two spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

EVERYDAY! Currently as I type this I'm at 204lbs and 22% body fat. I'm 6'0 and I have really seen in 8 months what heavy workouts can do. I love the gym, and go 6 days a week. I talked to my Dad recently about what I could do different then the Keto diet to burn some more fat and reach my goal of 185. I feel like I have hit that wall, and he is a big fitness buff. I told him my days are....

1. Chest
2. Arms
3. Back
4. Legs

I repeat once I am done with back. The one thing he noticed was I was not doing cardio (I hate it with a passion, so boring to me). So he said I should incorporate low intensity cardio into my workout 50-60 mins a day if possible, and can have a cheat day once a week as long as I do the cardio. Suggested bringing my protein intake to 140g a day, because I taking to much in. Also suggested five to six meals a day so I can get the right amount of food in my body.

Here are my questions after this lengthy post. I have noticed within the last couple months that when I get home from work I'm very short on patience. My three year old son who means the world to me, can suffer from my short patience. Recently, it seems it's been more anger than short patience. Fine at the gym in the morning, and fine at work. After I get off I just seem like a different person. People have pointed out that they think the low carbs is doing this to me, and that I've got to introduce them back into my diet. I actually have a personal trainer appointment on Wednesday to talk nutrition and such. I've only got about 20lbs to go before my goal, and I don't want to go backwards. I did start on Friday with 50 minutes of cardio at the gym before lifting.

1. I want to have a diet where I watch the amount of consumption, but I feel like I can eat normally. I want to eat pasta on a Wednesday if my wife cooks it, or a burger on Saturday watching games. I am not going to change my workout schedule and will continue on cardio.

2. Is the low amount of carbs or food intake causing my attitude, and can it be corrected?

3. My weight loss areas of need are my oblique and abdominal area. There is muscle because I work on core every day, but need to get ride of the body fat still. Isn't much but a small grip, but still need it gone. I also have some excess body fat on my back near my triceps. Not much at all, but can see the size. Those are my areas that need cleaned up.

I would like some ideas from this community, as a buddy turned me onto this site. The biggest cause for concern is my attitude change and lack of patience with my son. With a daughter on the way in December, I want to be back to my normal self, while continuing to work on my body. My body now has given me confidence I haven't had since I was 18. I just want some normalcy with my attitude.

PS: I'm also on the GNC Ripped Vitapak if that helps.

bigsistruck

While I can't help you with a lot of your questions, I CAN say without a doubt that YES being in keto causes impatience and grumpiness! After I yelled at my 8 year old last week over a homework question I dropped the low carb thing. It's in no way worth me being an evil person!

extra_medium

You can't really target certain areas for fat loss other than just losing more bodyfat overall, and you don't need any militant low carb plan to do that really. All you need is a calorie deficit and cardio can definitely help with that, even though you say you hate it (as do I)

If you're noticing these side effects since starting your program it sounds like it's worth trying to get back to "normal" food with a deficit and seeing if it helps. It might not even be the problem, but you can eliminate it from the list if it doesn't help.

meridianova

2. Is the low amount of carbs or food intake causing my attitude, and can it be corrected?

let me see if i've got your timeline straight... you went february through june on a strict keto diet, and it's only been the last couple of months (july - september) that you've noticed a change in your attitude?

first question: are you still doing a ketogenic diet or have you changed it up? if you're still on keto but only recently noticing the changes in attitude, then i'm not sure keto is to blame. has anything ELSE changed in your life? stresses from work, home life, stuff around the house that subconscioulsy annoy you?

second question: you mentioned your son is 3... is it possible his behaviors have changed to where he's not listening, throwing tantrums more, getting into trouble? my son had a golden period of about 8 months (and i counted every day!) where he was the perfect little kid... then he dissolved into a bout of horribleness where he was doing whatever he could to be bad. it's frustrating as a parent but definitely contributes to short-temperedness. just because he means the world to you doesn't mean he can't be a little *kitten* too.

third question: have you changed brands on anything you're eating? there might be a different formulation that's causing you to react negatively.

honestly, if you think the keto is the problem, try reincorporating just enough carbs to get you out of keto (but not so many that you're back into the standard american diet). if that changes things, then you've got your answer. but before that, see if there are external extenuating circumstances first.

Chief_Rocka

just ate tons of protein and lean fat.

lolwut?

irene4134

Hie. Just reading your posts I think u been on this zero carb diet for long. U are depriving ur body the Carbos and this Alone might putting strain in ur metabolism though am not a doctor. Since u also do gym I wud suggest u limit ur proteins to 120g a day, increase vegetables to 200g a day u mite have 100g foe lunch and another for supper. Try cook in less oil.. 15mls fat a day. Them take 3 carbos in a day ie. 70 g rice or 100g potato etc u cud split them between meals or have 1 CC for bfast and 2 CC For lunch and zero carbos for dinner but veges and protein. Yogurt as a snack during day and 3 fruits during the day. You should be alright. Drink 2 liter water daily or more

PatchEFog

There's nothing essential in carbohydrates. Carbohydrates aren't a food group, so he cannot possibly be depriving himself of anything that is in carbohydrates.

PatchEFog

I would try posting this where there is a higher concentration of people doing keto, else you are likely to get answers that are irrelevant to your way of eating (WOE).
Sugar burners outnumber fat burners here on MFP.

ThePhoenixIsRising

There's nothing essential in carbohydrates. Carbohydrates aren't a food group, so he cannot possibly be depriving himself of anything that is in carbohydrates.

Right they are three food groups, fruits, vegetables, and grains.


To the op. Are your cals correct, or are you going for fast loss for your last 2lbs? Low cals overall could be your problem.

When I did Keto I tried the carb refeed days and found it stopped me from actually becoming keto adapted. It takes weeks at constant ketosis to get to the point that your body easily goes to fat for fuel. Carbs or ketones are needed for balanced brain function and the switching back and forth can cause a delay of needed energy to the brain as your body runs out of the carbs you spiked with and switches to effectively using keystones. This delay in switching over a why people co through the "carb flu".

You need to either do keto all the way, or keep carbs available to your body. There is no sometimes I want to do one or the other.

melduf

:noway: I'm totally puzzled with your diet. What happened to "5 to 10 servings of fruits and vegetables a day"??!! That can't be healthy!

Ang108

There's nothing essential in carbohydrates. Carbohydrates aren't a food group, so he cannot possibly be depriving himself of anything that is in carbohydrates.

So, you are saying that there is nothing " essential " in fruits and vegetables, because the last time I checked they were carbohydrates. I have been counting on them for fiber, vitamins and minerals for weight loss and well being. But then, I could be wrong and lost 55 pounds that have nothing to do with deficit and a balanced, healthy diet and the inclusion of a lot of those non-essential foods.

dwygtd

BUMP FOR LATER

PatchEFog

Blah blah blah
It doesn't take that many vegetables to be inclusive of necessary micro nutrients. Don't be silly.
ALL carbohydrates are not created equally and discussing them as such is grossly inaccurate.

I will say it again, just for the OP and anyone interested in the keto topic: Most MFP users are clearly hostile towards keto and the latest science that doesn't vilify fat and condemns sugar (and should be condemning many of the complex carbohydrates that sugar burners can't/won't give up, but doesn't because the TPTB would have to say they were wrong all these years). Their heads would explode because there are too many people taking the red pill.

Don't hurt yourselves on this link: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/75/5/951.2.full

For those of you who are rabid anti-keto people: STOP bashing on other people's WOEs. What works for one, doesn't work for another. It's pretty sad when someone asks a general question and is bombarded with anti-keto rhetoric, as seen over and over again here.

bfitgirl

I can just add that I wouldn't do a long slow cardio session after weight training. A quick HIIT (high intensity interval training) program at the end of your gym session should see a bit of fat burn there. There are lots of different HIIT programs you can look up.

On your diet, low carb, low fat, high carb, it can all depends on the individual. I believe (after doing lots of difference methods) that balanced diets works out well in the long run. Limiting or labelling a food good or bad wrongly IMO makes a big difference in the healthy attitude and balance lifestyle you are trying to achieve. As you took a break from low carb, then I think you need to rethink your diet insofar as focusing on the long term... your short term goal is fat loss but if you got ripped on 'A' is it sustainable for you to do longterm? I'm not bashing low carb by the way, (it worked for me but I couldn't do it longterm) and it can work for lots of individuals and is sustainable for them.

Scoobysworkshop.com do a few calculators for estimating calories when you know you body fat.

Unknown

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psuLemon

1. I want to have a diet where I watch the amount of consumption, but I feel like I can eat normally. I want to eat pasta on a Wednesday if my wife cooks it, or a burger on Saturday watching games. I am not going to change my workout schedule and will continue on cardio.

2. Is the low amount of carbs or food intake causing my attitude, and can it be corrected?

3. My weight loss areas of need are my oblique and abdominal area. There is muscle because I work on core every day, but need to get ride of the body fat still. Isn't much but a small grip, but still need it gone. I also have some excess body fat on my back near my triceps. Not much at all, but can see the size. Those are my areas that need cleaned up.

I would like some ideas from this community, as a buddy turned me onto this site. The biggest cause for concern is my attitude change and lack of patience with my son. With a daughter on the way in December, I want to be back to my normal self, while continuing to work on my body. My body now has given me confidence I haven't had since I was 18. I just want some normalcy with my attitude.

PS: I'm also on the GNC Ripped Vitapak if that helps.

1. As long as you don't have a medical reason to be low carb, then it's not a requirement to lose fat. Going low carb or keto will not increase fat loss. Now, if you do decide to add back carbs, you will gain weight because you will store additional glycogen/water. So if you prefer to eat whatever, maybe slowly add carbs (50gs a week or something) until you get to an acceptable level.

2. I know when I do anything less than 200g of carb, I get really lethargic which lead me to having a short temper at times but more importantly, it several diminished my workout performance.

3. In order to get abs, it's all about overall body fat % loss. Working targets will only make that area stronger. It will not by any means lower the fat in that area. Genetics will determine where the fat comes from.

Also, the number of meals and the timing of those meals is complete irrelevant when it comes to weight loss/fat loss. All that matters is achieving a deficit over a specific period of time.

MississippiMama87

Hie. Just reading your posts I think u been on this zero carb diet for long. U are depriving ur body the Carbos and this Alone might putting strain in ur metabolism though am not a doctor. Since u also do gym I wud suggest u limit ur proteins to 120g a day, increase vegetables to 200g a day u mite have 100g foe lunch and another for supper. Try cook in less oil.. 15mls fat a day. Them take 3 carbos in a day ie. 70 g rice or 100g potato etc u cud split them between meals or have 1 CC for bfast and 2 CC For lunch and zero carbos for dinner but veges and protein. Yogurt as a snack during day and 3 fruits during the day. You should be alright. Drink 2 liter water daily or more

Huh. No really, huh.

oh my.

PatchEFog

1. As long as you don't have a medical reason to be low carb, then it's not a requirement to lose fat. Going low carb or keto will not increase fat loss. Now, if you do decide to add back carbs, you will gain weight because you will store additional glycogen/water. So if you prefer to eat whatever, maybe slowly add carbs (50gs a week or something) until you get to an acceptable level.

More woo. Again, this depends on your body and the thermogenic effect. Your blanket answer is not the answer for everyone, and it effects the other elements like body composition. Hence, why more pro athletes and body builders turn to ketogenic diets to get lean. I guess with all their sports medicine trainers and coaches, they don't have the cutting edge science.
Keep bashing keto though. God forbid that a poster look for help with their chosen method of eating, but it is all I have come to love about MFP users.

psuLemon

1. As long as you don't have a medical reason to be low carb, then it's not a requirement to lose fat. Going low carb or keto will not increase fat loss. Now, if you do decide to add back carbs, you will gain weight because you will store additional glycogen/water. So if you prefer to eat whatever, maybe slowly add carbs (50gs a week or something) until you get to an acceptable level.

More woo. Again, this depends on your body and the thermogenic effect. Your blanket answer is not the answer for everyone, and it effects the other elements like body composition. Hence, why more pro athletes and body builders turn to ketogenic diets to get lean. I guess with all their sports medicine trainers and coaches, they don't have the cutting edge science.
Keep bashing keto though. God forbid that a poster look for help with their chosen method of eating, but it is all I have come to love about MFP users.

Let me provide you some context in case you didn't actually read the OP's post. It seems you do not understand what the OP is actually looking for:

1. I want to have a diet where I watch the amount of consumption, but I feel like I can eat normally. I want to eat pasta on a Wednesday if my wife cooks it, or a burger on Saturday watching games. I am not going to change my workout schedule and will continue on cardio.

As indicated by the #1 bullet, the OP would like to eat normal and be able to eat pasta. I don't know about you, but this is a clear indicator, the OP does not want to maintain the keto lifestyle. So before you go blasting the entire community, I would recommend understand that OP's current WOE is not what he wants to maintain.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1055.long

There are many factors in terms of body composition, protein levels and resistance training being at the top of that. But if you hold protein levels constant and do not have a medical condition (like my wife does), there is no need to be on a keto diet. I personally struggle on low carb diets. I see value in them for those who adhere to diets. But then again, I am actually open to science if one can provide it. It's great this diet is working for you, but it doesn't mean it's a necessity.


BTW, please point out where I actually based Keto. It's a valid diet style. The only thing that matters is diet adherence.

PatchEFog

Let me provide you some context in case you didn't actually read the OP's post. It seems you do not understand what the OP is actually looking for:

Unfortunately for you, all you see is colored by your inability to understand why someone without a "medical condition" would want to do keto, therefore when you read the OPs statement, you understand it to read something other than what it may mean. Just because someone says they want to eat pasta once a week, does not mean that they aren't wanting to do be on a ketogenic diet or do it long term. There are plenty of people who do keto and carb cycle and/or don't do very low carb every day - if they are where they want to be in ketosis. As with anything, there are DEGREES. Your stated misconceptions are incorrect and misleading.

There are many factors in terms of body composition, protein levels and resistance training being at the top of that. But if you hold protein levels constant and do not have a medical condition (like my wife does), there is no need to be on a keto diet. I personally struggle on low carb diets. I see value in them for those who adhere to diets. But then again, I am actually open to science if one can provide it. It's great this diet is working for you, but it doesn't mean it's a necessity.

Phinney and Volek have a book called The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance that addresses your issues and misconceptions.
Just because you personally struggle, when someone is asking how to manage their chosen way of eating, it's not helpful to tank it.
As a keto person myself, I don't go to low fat threads and ask people WTH they're doing eating low fat.

The only thing that matters is diet adherence.

Diet adherence is important, but there are other issues. It is multi-factorial. Ketogenic diets can and do have a thermogenic advantage for many, and do help many people burn fat at a faster rate than other diet plans. It depends on if it works for this individual, and he doesn't have to have a "medical condition" to explore as to whether it works for him or not since there are no dangers in the diet itself.

ThePhoenixIsRising

Let me provide you some context in case you didn't actually read the OP's post. It seems you do not understand what the OP is actually looking for:

Unfortunately for you, all you see is colored by your inability to understand why someone without a "medical condition" would want to do keto, therefore when you read the OPs statement, you understand it to read something other than what it may mean. Just because someone says they want to eat pasta once a week, does not mean that they aren't wanting to do be on a ketogenic diet or do it long term. There are plenty of people who do keto and carb cycle and/or don't do very low carb every day - if they are where they want to be in ketosis. As with anything, there are DEGREES. Your stated misconceptions are incorrect and misleading.

There are many factors in terms of body composition, protein levels and resistance training being at the top of that. But if you hold protein levels constant and do not have a medical condition (like my wife does), there is no need to be on a keto diet. I personally struggle on low carb diets. I see value in them for those who adhere to diets. But then again, I am actually open to science if one can provide it. It's great this diet is working for you, but it doesn't mean it's a necessity.

Phinney and Volek have a book called The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance that addresses your issues and misconceptions.
Just because you personally struggle, when someone is asking how to manage their chosen way of eating, it's not helpful to tank it.
As a keto person myself, I don't go to low fat threads and ask people WTH they're doing eating low fat.

The only thing that matters is diet adherence.

Diet adherence is important, but there are other issues. It is multi-factorial. Ketogenic diets can and do have a thermogenic advantage for many, and do help many people burn fat at a faster rate than other diet plans. It depends on if it works for this individual, and he doesn't have to have a "medical condition" to explore as to whether it works for him or not since there are no dangers in the diet itself.

He has explored the diet and realizes he wants to be able to eat "carbs". Because of this the keto lifestyle doesn't seem to be what he wants. Why do you take it as an attack on your chosen diet that others have found it unsustainable for them?

eric_sg61

1. As long as you don't have a medical reason to be low carb, then it's not a requirement to lose fat. Going low carb or keto will not increase fat loss. Now, if you do decide to add back carbs, you will gain weight because you will store additional glycogen/water. So if you prefer to eat whatever, maybe slowly add carbs (50gs a week or something) until you get to an acceptable level.

More woo. Again, this depends on your body and the thermogenic effect. Your blanket answer is not the answer for everyone, and it effects the other elements like body composition. Hence, why more pro athletes and body builders turn to ketogenic diets to get lean. I guess with all their sports medicine trainers and coaches, they don't have the cutting edge science.
Keep bashing keto though. God forbid that a poster look for help with their chosen method of eating, but it is all I have come to love about MFP users.

No they don't
and this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046
"CONCLUSIONS:

KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

Unknown

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_Terrapin_

I'm new to these boards, so if I'm on the wrong one I apologize.

I'm a 31 Male and really started dieting a few years ago. I was 270 and wasn't slowing down. I got my weight down through dieting to 215lbs. In December of this past year, I had gotten to 230 and was worried I could be gaining again. At Christmas time I took a couple months off from work to go run a start-up (doing well). So right after Christmas I finally decided to use that gym membership every day......and boy did I get hooked. I was going every morning for a couple hours a day and loving it. I feel in love with building muscle and making myself look better. The first week of February I was talking to a buddy who is a big fitness nut, and told him I wasn't getting exactly where I wanted to be. I was down to 215 but just looked "puffy" at night, when in the morning I looked good in the mirror. He recommended going on a "Keto" diet because he thought I was taking in to many carbs. My body was starting to take shape, but I really wanted to lose the belly fat more.

I started on the Keto diet on February 7th and ran it hardcore all the way up until the end of June. I had one cheat meal a week, but for the most part just ate tons of protein and lean fat. I decided to take a month off from it, because I was just feeling it wasn't working for me anymore. This is what my diet consisted of.

Breakfast - 4 to 6 scrambled eggs w/cheese

10am- 48g whey protein shake with two spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

Lunch- 8oz of chicken, steak, or shrimp. I got to doing a Quest protein bar because of no appetite.

2pm- 48g whey protein shake with two spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

Dinner - Anywhere from 8-16oz of chicken, steak, shrimp, or salmon.

10pm- 48g whey protein shake with two spoonfuls of natural peanut butter.

EVERYDAY! Currently as I type this I'm at 204lbs and 22% body fat. I'm 6'0 and I have really seen in 8 months what heavy workouts can do. I love the gym, and go 6 days a week. I talked to my Dad recently about what I could do different then the Keto diet to burn some more fat and reach my goal of 185. I feel like I have hit that wall, and he is a big fitness buff. I told him my days are....

1. Chest
2. Arms
3. Back
4. Legs

I repeat once I am done with back. The one thing he noticed was I was not doing cardio (I hate it with a passion, so boring to me). So he said I should incorporate low intensity cardio into my workout 50-60 mins a day if possible, and can have a cheat day once a week as long as I do the cardio. Suggested bringing my protein intake to 140g a day, because I taking to much in. Also suggested five to six meals a day so I can get the right amount of food in my body.

Here are my questions after this lengthy post. I have noticed within the last couple months that when I get home from work I'm very short on patience. My three year old son who means the world to me, can suffer from my short patience. Recently, it seems it's been more anger than short patience. Fine at the gym in the morning, and fine at work. After I get off I just seem like a different person. People have pointed out that they think the low carbs is doing this to me, and that I've got to introduce them back into my diet. I actually have a personal trainer appointment on Wednesday to talk nutrition and such. I've only got about 20lbs to go before my goal, and I don't want to go backwards. I did start on Friday with 50 minutes of cardio at the gym before lifting.

1. I want to have a diet where I watch the amount of consumption, but I feel like I can eat normally. I want to eat pasta on a Wednesday if my wife cooks it, or a burger on Saturday watching games. I am not going to change my workout schedule and will continue on cardio.

2. Is the low amount of carbs or food intake causing my attitude, and can it be corrected?

3. My weight loss areas of need are my oblique and abdominal area. There is muscle because I work on core every day, but need to get ride of the body fat still. Isn't much but a small grip, but still need it gone. I also have some excess body fat on my back near my triceps. Not much at all, but can see the size. Those are my areas that need cleaned up.

I would like some ideas from this community, as a buddy turned me onto this site. The biggest cause for concern is my attitude change and lack of patience with my son. With a daughter on the way in December, I want to be back to my normal self, while continuing to work on my body. My body now has given me confidence I haven't had since I was 18. I just want some normalcy with my attitude.

PS: I'm also on the GNC Ripped Vitapak if that helps.

bump

psuLemon

Let me provide you some context in case you didn't actually read the OP's post. It seems you do not understand what the OP is actually looking for:

Unfortunately for you, all you see is colored by your inability to understand why someone without a "medical condition" would want to do keto, therefore when you read the OPs statement, you understand it to read something other than what it may mean. Just because someone says they want to eat pasta once a week, does not mean that they aren't wanting to do be on a ketogenic diet or do it long term. There are plenty of people who do keto and carb cycle and/or don't do very low carb every day - if they are where they want to be in ketosis. As with anything, there are DEGREES. Your stated misconceptions are incorrect and misleading.

There are many factors in terms of body composition, protein levels and resistance training being at the top of that. But if you hold protein levels constant and do not have a medical condition (like my wife does), there is no need to be on a keto diet. I personally struggle on low carb diets. I see value in them for those who adhere to diets. But then again, I am actually open to science if one can provide it. It's great this diet is working for you, but it doesn't mean it's a necessity.

Phinney and Volek have a book called The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance that addresses your issues and misconceptions.
Just because you personally struggle, when someone is asking how to manage their chosen way of eating, it's not helpful to tank it.
As a keto person myself, I don't go to low fat threads and ask people WTH they're doing eating low fat.

The only thing that matters is diet adherence.

Diet adherence is important, but there are other issues. It is multi-factorial. Ketogenic diets can and do have a thermogenic advantage for many, and do help many people burn fat at a faster rate than other diet plans. It depends on if it works for this individual, and he doesn't have to have a "medical condition" to explore as to whether it works for him or not since there are no dangers in the diet itself.

First, I would never buy a book selling a lifestyle choice for credible sources of information. Anyone can cherry pick studies to provide a biased view on a subject (paleo, vegetarian, vegan, etc...). I am able to look at scientific studies to see if I can disprove what I believe in. So I question, do you have that ability? My knowledge and views have changed throughout the year and I never have stated one diet is better than the other. Not everyone can do low carb (like myself). In fact, nothing I stated is wrong or can be proven wrong by science. If there is, please provide me some links so I can improve my knowledge (not tell me to buy a book by people are known for their biases). Outside of having a medical condition, there really is NO specific type of diet style that is the best for everyone. It's based on the individuals ability to adapt to that given lifestyle and their ability to adhere to it. This isn't me bashing Keto like you would like to believe. And for your own edification, my wife has to follow low carb. She has several medical issue (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome). I also understand there are many approaches to achieving the desired results.

If the OP wants to do Keto and carb cycle and would have provided the as part of his post, I would have adjusted my response. Based on what the OP posted and the way I read it, the OP is doing Keto based off a recommendation from a friend, rather than a personal belief. If I was wrong, the OP would correct me and I can adjust my answer. So your misinterpretation of me blasting Keto is just that... a misinterpretation.

So for the purposes of this thread, how about we stop trying to derail the thread and understand what the OP is looking for? If you feel the need to continue this debate, feel free to do it through PM.

PatchEFog

1. As long as you don't have a medical reason to be low carb, then it's not a requirement to lose fat. Going low carb or keto will not increase fat loss. Now, if you do decide to add back carbs, you will gain weight because you will store additional glycogen/water. So if you prefer to eat whatever, maybe slowly add carbs (50gs a week or something) until you get to an acceptable level.

More woo. Again, this depends on your body and the thermogenic effect. Your blanket answer is not the answer for everyone, and it effects the other elements like body composition. Hence, why more pro athletes and body builders turn to ketogenic diets to get lean. I guess with all their sports medicine trainers and coaches, they don't have the cutting edge science.
Keep bashing keto though. God forbid that a poster look for help with their chosen method of eating, but it is all I have come to love about MFP users.

No they don't
and this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046
"CONCLUSIONS:

KLC and NLC diets were equally effective in reducing body weight and insulin resistance, but the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

What they are calling a ketogenic diet is debatable. If the test subjects were keto-adapted, which most studies do not wait for, and they were fed ketogenic diets to raise blood ketones to the 1.0-3.0 mmol/l range, it would be a true ketogenic diet. Per Phinney and Volek, this is the range for optimal fat burning, but is variable in individuals. Your study is one of many not conducted in the spirit of finding answers, but proving pre-conceived outcomes.

PatchEFog

Apparently, you didn't read this:
http://www.examiner.com/article/high-fat-ketogenic-and-paleo-diets-gain-favor-among-athletes-like-lebron-james

PatchEFog

He has explored the diet and realizes he wants to be able to eat "carbs". Because of this the keto lifestyle doesn't seem to be what he wants. Why do you take it as an attack on your chosen diet that others have found it unsustainable for them?

He was/is doing keto and exploring other options though he has not sorted out his issues that he's having while on keto. Keto can be of benefit to him instead of plan hopping. What he is describing is not outside of the realm of what keto people do for carb cycling. It is unfortunate that someone who is currently doing one way of eating but having issues is steered in a completely different direction instead of working out possible problems with the way he's managing his current plan.
I take it as a personal affront that many here have preconceived notions and biases.

To that end, the best post thusfar which helps the OP bridge between keto and anything is has been by bfitgirl.

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PatchEFog

First, I would never buy a book selling a lifestyle choice for credible sources of information. Anyone can cherry pick studies to provide a biased view on a subject (paleo, vegetarian, vegan, etc...).

Niether would I, and doctors Phinney and Volek are credible scientists. They don't have to cherry pick.

I am able to look at scientific studies to see if I can disprove what I believe in. So I question, do you have that ability?

Wow. Condescending much? You likely know less on the subject than I've forgotten.

...In fact, nothing I stated is wrong or can be proven wrong by science. If there is, please provide me some links so I can improve my knowledge (not tell me to buy a book by people are known for their biases)...
Again, works by Phinney/Volek, Westman and others speak for themselves. They have done actual studies and have published articles (posted earlier). If you wanted to know, you could look it up, but that isn't something you're willing to do.

Outside of having a medical condition, there really is NO specific type of diet style that is the best for everyone. It's based on the individuals ability to adapt to that given lifestyle and their ability to adhere to it. This isn't me bashing Keto like you would like to believe. And for your own edification, my wife has to follow low carb. She has several medical issue (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome). I also understand there are many approaches to achieving the desired results.

Again, WHY does someone have to have a "medical condition" before keto is an option to them? As I have stated before, not all plans work for all people there is no dispute about that. When someone is on a plan though, I try to be supportive of the plan they are on, not the one I want the to be on. I don't spend my time, for example, recruiting people to keto when they're doing calorie restriction and low fat but struggling in their plan.

If the OP wants to do Keto and carb cycle and would have provided the as part of his post, I would have adjusted my response. Based on what the OP posted and the way I read it, the OP is doing Keto based off a recommendation from a friend, rather than a personal belief. If I was wrong, the OP would correct me and I can adjust my answer. So your misinterpretation of me blasting Keto is just that... a misinterpretation.

OP is doing keto, which was suggested to him. It does not sound like anyone has ever discussed carb cycling with him. It is amazing how when people here see someone like him, they give absolute opposite information instead of guiding him in the success he could have while still on the same plan - simply because they don't agree with the plan or it doesn't work for them. So instead of being supportive, they instead bash and try to use it as an opportunity to spread their own diet agenda. Keto might not work for him, but there's a lot he could do to find out FIRST, before hopping plans.

So for the purposes of this thread, how about we stop trying to derail the thread and understand what the OP is looking for? If you feel the need to continue this debate, feel free to do it through PM.

The OP has stated he is looking to lean out. He wants to eat some carbs occasionally. He could do that with keto. There ARE fat burning advantages to keto, despite you (and others) stating that there is not. Someone close to the OP suggested keto, and I'm not seeing where he might have given keto a fighting chance to work for him (like not knowing about carb cycling) instead of completely upending his current plan.

PatchEFog

1 article talking about a few athletes out of how many in the world? Come on now. How many don't do keto? Does the Rock? How about the thousands of other athletes?

Actually, Dwayne Johnson has done low carb, high protein yes.
Come on, yourself.

Never surprises me that it's a relatively new member with a private page that is always so adamant that their way is the best. Always private.

As is my prerogative. How unfortunate you have such a nasty attitude towards new members.