Have you seen FED UP - the documentary?
Replies
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Have I missed where you changed your mind?
Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.
I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!
*sarcasm*
Welcome to the conversation! LOL0 -
What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.
Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.
Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.0 -
Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.
Except that you freak out when she wants a treat in the grocery store. Sounds like a bubble to me.
Why do you assume I freak out? I rarely even raise my voice to her.
You are posting on here that you are highly upset that she is exposed to the availability of candy. You are trying to shelter her. Freaking out doesn't mean you yelled at her. It means that you want the government to step in and stop candy from being on display. You want to shelter your daughter from seeing it.0 -
Have I missed where you changed your mind?
Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.
I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!
*sarcasm*
Welcome to the conversation! LOL
We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!0 -
What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.
Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.
Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.
So what? Why shouldn't you have some from time to time?0 -
What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.
Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.
Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.
Because they know people do not exercise self-control. If people would learn and use that value, than it wouldn't matter where stores placed their candy. Exercise self control and it wouldn't matter where they placed it or what kind of commercials they show. Exercise moderation and then it wouldn't matter how often it's consumed, because it would all be a part of a well balanced diet.0 -
I have read, and at every turn you advocate the removal of choice and responsibility from the consumer.
Have I missed where you changed your mind?
Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.
I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!
*sarcasm*
Welcome to the conversation! LOL
We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!0 -
Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.
Except that you freak out when she wants a treat in the grocery store. Sounds like a bubble to me.
Why do you assume I freak out? I rarely even raise my voice to her.
You are posting on here that you are highly upset that she is exposed to the availability of candy. You are trying to shelter her. Freaking out doesn't mean you yelled at her. It means that you want the government to step in and stop candy from being on display. You want to shelter your daughter from seeing it.
Sorry then, I picture freaking out as going batsh*t on her in the line up. Of course it's annoying that I have to look at that crap in the line up and know that my daughter is being taunted by it every time she comes with me. So am I .. I used to be totally addicted to sugar. Seeing a chocolate bar triggers the desire.
I would like industry to be accountable and culpable on how they advertise, what chemicals, including sugar are presented as "food" so that the average person that is trying to shop for their family is buying food, not food-like products. I'd like to see better labeling, accurate information, and less processed crap being identified as food.
I'd like people who believe in consumer choice to also advocate for healthy choices, not every choice. I'd like good food in stores that children can buy from so that a 12 year old doesn't need a dictionary when they go to 7/11 -- if the food is even labeled.
Instead of assuming I want the government do everything for me, isn't it ok to believe that the government is there to work on behalf of me and those things that I want?0 -
sugar is not addictive? It is often compared to going through heroine addiction. Have you gone sugar free ever? It is very hard because its in everything. Its in chicken you buy from perdue or other chicken sellers. Its in cereal, bread, all condiments, drinks, juices, everything or its in code as sugar free as maltose dextrose fructose xylitol alcohol sugar cane sugar sucrose high fructose corn syrup corn syrup and more names that people dont even know or recognize as sugar. But yet thats no problem?I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy.
It's not addictive, but as far as that goes, no one is in an uproar about companies that make and sell alcohol these days.
As for "not healthy" -- who decides? Lots of things that consumers want are unhealthy if consumed in excess quantities. Yet no one blames, say, TV manufacturers for people watching too much TV.This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic.
Sure it's realistic. Do some people choose not to? Sure, but that's their responsibility. I, personally, would rather live in a world where I am free to make mistakes or engage in actions that some people apparently think are "unhealthy" (like eating some ice cream on occasion), then be told by the government (i.e., well-meaning people like you, who think we should hold corporations liable for selling ice cream, it seems) that I cannot make that choice.
Yeah, I've gone no added sugar, no fruit, no grains. It wasn't hard for me and there was nothing like withdrawal. (I didn't give up fruit, which seems idiotic to me. I just wasn't eating it because much in the winter anyway and was experimenting.) Now, of course I was eating other foods that converted to sugar, and veggies with sugar, but probably was as low in sugar as any but real low carb people and honestly the idea that it is anything like heroin withdrawal is mind boggling. Also, having had my own issues with addiction (booze), it just seems a crazy comparison. Maybe for some, but a physical addiction like heroin is self-evidently false and discredits those who claim it.
I buy my chicken from a local farm, so I'm confident it's sugar free. I don't think it's difficult to know where your sugar is from if you care, but I've always eaten more whole foods than not (although I also intentionally eat foods with sugar now--not just carrots and fruit and dairy, but chocolate and ice cream, etc.). However, the idea that any commercial chicken, plain chicken, has an appreciable amount of calories from sugar is one I'm skeptical of.0 -
For me, it's like saying to a drug addict, what's wrong with one pull of this joint?0
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I think it may be a little foolish to suggest the government and big industry are not culpable in the war on obesity. Proclaiming personal responsibility is painting with a broad brush. Yes, we are all responsible for our own lives (and our children's) but we don't live in a padded room without outside influences.
It leaves a sour taste in my mouth when members with 75+ pounds of weight loss are suddenly wagging their fingers at others for not jumping on the personal responsibility train and dismissing the idea of government and the food industry should have culpability in this.0 -
I have read, and at every turn you advocate the removal of choice and responsibility from the consumer.
Have I missed where you changed your mind?
Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.
I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!
*sarcasm*
Welcome to the conversation! LOL
We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!
I believe the industry knows clearly how addictive sugar is. They do plenty of research on the "bliss point" of food production. They act like tobacco companies and that's one of the main points of these types of documentaries. We need to keep on top of this type of behaviour when our health is at stake!0 -
It is because of that loss that we can say personal responsibility is the key! It was taking that responsibility and acting on it that made those losses happen. It was ignoring those personal responsibilities that piled the weight on in the first place.I think it may be a little foolish to suggest the government and big industry are not culpable in the war on obesity. Proclaiming personal responsibility is painting with a broad brush. Yes, we are all responsible for our own lives (and our children's) but we don't live in a padded room without outside influences.
It leaves a sour taste in my mouth when members with 75+ pounds of weight loss are suddenly wagging their fingers at others for not jumping on the personal responsibility train and dismissing the idea of government and the food industry should have culpability in this.0 -
I think it may be a little foolish to suggest the government and big industry are not culpable in the war on obesity. Proclaiming personal responsibility is painting with a broad brush. Yes, we are all responsible for our own lives (and our children's) but we don't live in a padded room without outside influences.
It leaves a sour taste in my mouth when members with 75+ pounds of weight loss are suddenly wagging their fingers at others for not jumping on the personal responsibility train and dismissing the idea of government and the food industry should have culpability in this.
Because they forced me to eat two bacon ultimate cheeseburgers from Jack in the Box every day.
You know why we have "75+ pounds" of weight loss? We took responsibility for what we put in our bodies and stopped expecting others to make sure we eat healthy. When you point the finger and blame someone/something else you give up control. When you take the blame you take back control and you can do something about it.0 -
But it's not sugar that is the problem, it's over consumption of cals that lease to obesity that is the problem!
I have read, and at every turn you advocate the removal of choice and responsibility from the consumer.
Have I missed where you changed your mind?
Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.
I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!
*sarcasm*
Welcome to the conversation! LOL
We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!
I believe the industry knows clearly how addictive sugar is. They do plenty of research on the "bliss point" of food production. They act like tobacco companies and that's one of the main points of these types of documentaries. We need to keep on top of this type of behaviour when our health is at stake!0 -
I have read, and at every turn you advocate the removal of choice and responsibility from the consumer.
Have I missed where you changed your mind?
Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.
I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!
*sarcasm*
Welcome to the conversation! LOL
We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!
I believe the industry knows clearly how addictive sugar is. They do plenty of research on the "bliss point" of food production. They act like tobacco companies and that's one of the main points of these types of documentaries. We need to keep on top of this type of behaviour when our health is at stake!
Our brain's response to sugar is identical to our brain's response when we pet puppies and have sex. Petting puppies and having sex are addictive, we must ban them.0 -
Wonderfullyma,I am not going to try quoting again after I mucked up my last attempt - but calling some food "food like products" is really not helping your credibility here.
Sure, some food is more nutritious than other food (also depending which nutrients you want at the time) but there is no such thing as "food like products" - that is just silly zealots talk.
Out of curiosity, does USA or other countries have confectionary free aisles? They do here, not by govt regulation,but in response to parent group's requests. Usually only one or two per supermarket but at least gives parent the option to use that aisle if they are having problems with tantrums, or anyone having problems with their own temptations.
Just a question to the thread,anyone can answer please.0 -
And for those that are talking about "parental responsibility" and don't have kids, STFU.
No
Sorry but having kids doesn't make you a special snowflake and automatically immune to criticism
Honestly the fact that you would even pull that card is kinda pathetic.
It's pathetic when someone who has NO IDEA on the difficulties of raising a child in this world, blames everything on only one factor - parents and not the environmental impact of the world around. Kids spend 8 hours a day in a school with public education (provided by government), eat in school cafeterias, see billboard after billboard in transport or in stores... but of course, it's absolutely 100% parental responsibility for the impact and education that these children receive -- especially about food.
And that's the cop out parents have used to get out of everything.
Sorry don't care about your sob story. Oh and If you read up I said PERSONAL AND PARENTAL responsibility.
Also I even said that it's not really the parents fault a lot of the time. Sometimes it is though.
And no you can't monitor everything. But you can't expect to control everything. I never made any assumptions like that. You have just decided to attack me because I mentioned that parental responsibility is a problem in many cases .. and it is.
You are just appealing to parenthood to get out of the fact that your argument on sugar stinks and it's not worth wasting any more time on you.
I didn't give you a sob story and you went from saying "The obvious culprit. And the one we want to ignore because we know it is the source.
Personal and Parental responsibility. " to "sometimes" and "You can't monitor....control everything". I see my point sank in.
When you are trying to shuffle your 4 year old through the grocery store and they are wailing for some junk they see at the counter that you have no intention of feeding them but it's there, it will even more.
I take responsibility for my kids. If you don't then you are the problem. My 4 year old does pretty well in grocery stores. She knows what she's allowed, which does include sweets, and funny enough her pediatrician is absolutely amazed at how fit (strong) both our daughters are. It's you, not the industry and sugar. Take responsibility.
Wait until your kids are teenagers and those perfect parent/ perfect child living in a bubble ideals roll away. Great parents can still end of with kids who make bad choices -- why? because they have other sources of influence their whole lives. You may set a good foundation but they will eventually make friends, have boyfriends/girlfriends, read books...
That's what failures say about everything. It's not my fault. I can't control. Of course you don't have 100% control, but the absolute most important influence on any child is his/her parents, and if you're already making excuses with a 4 year old, all I can say is best of luck.
Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.
No it's not. They're intelligent and I treat mine as future adults who can take responsibility for their actions, and learn about nutrition, athletics, and excel academically all at the same time. Set expectations high and encourage. It works. Or make excuses and blame the world around you for your children's problems.
Of course, encouragement is amazing and can really help a child grow and do well. The reality is though, great children and great parents will still have to face failures, mistakes, wrong decision making. Ideally, our children would be perfect and have a perfect environment. Poor people would easily climb social ladders through achievement on their own merits, hard workers would make the most money, the nicest would have the best relationships... etc.
Yea, it's all futile, life is unfair, give up now . . .
Of course life has challenges, so it's better to teach your child how to face and overcome them successfully. Believe it or not life skills can be taught, but you have to do more than throw your hands in the air and complain.
Yes, I agree that you give every effort for your child to survive and thrive. Doesn't mean I give up on things like criticizing the food industry for the impact they have on us, our food choices, our health. My family is ultra important and that's why social justice and accountability to those that have an impact on our health environment means that much more.
So now, is your fault or the industry's that your child can't behave in a grocery aisle? I just want to be clear here.
If my child wasn't surrounded by candy, she wouldn't want it. It's quite well known that grocery items are strategically placed to incite desire. Have you been to a grocery counter that didn't have a pack of gum at arms reach? Do you think they see more or less gum sales from people because they are easy to pick up while you are waiting in line? Do I think that the average person waiting for gum spends time reading the ingredients, analyzing it's negative/positive health benefits or do the marketing people know that we are impulse buyers and our kids will want the candy?
And there it is. The bubble of irresponsible parenting
Now, now, it's also proven fact that supermarkets make people buy Star Magazine. And TV Guide. Hmm, more evidence that they caused obesity.
However, all this was true even before obesity was common--much as one could go to McD and could buy soda back when I was a kid, and yet there were almost no overweight kids--but why bother with reality when there's blame to cast!0 -
Wonderfullyma,I am not going to try quoting again after I mucked up my last attempt - but calling some food "food like products" is really not helping your credibility here.
Sure, some food is more nutritious than other food (also depending which nutrients you want at the time) but there is no such thing as "food like products" - that is just silly zealots talk.
Out of curiosity, does USA or other countries have confectionary free aisles? They do here, not by govt regulation,but in response to parent group's requests. Usually only one or two per supermarket but at least gives parent the option to use that aisle if they are having problems with tantrums, or anyone having problems with their own temptations.
Just a question to the thread,anyone can answer please.
There is no regulation for that, but I do know that some in my area don't have candy (usually one is next to magazines and our express lanes rarely do). Not by request, just by they way they are set up.0 -
What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.
Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.
Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.
Because they know people do not exercise self-control. If people would learn and use that value, than it wouldn't matter where stores placed their candy. Exercise self control and it wouldn't matter where they placed it or what kind of commercials they show. Exercise moderation and then it wouldn't matter how often it's consumed, because it would all be a part of a well balanced diet.
Yes, exactly, because they know the notion of self-control when it comes to addictive substances is a farce. When you treat a heroin addict, you advise them to change their friends, the places they will get triggers -- basically their environment, because it is so overwhelmingly a predictor to their behaviour. It's not simply "self-control", it's more than that.. and the industry is playing us with addictive sugar, lack or misinformation and control of our environment. And a well-balanced diet should not include junk, exercise or not. That's like saying, a little poison is acceptable... NO, get that crap away from me!0 -
In most supermarkets there are these check out isles.Wonderfullyma,I am not going to try quoting again after I mucked up my last attempt - but calling some food "food like products" is really not helping your credibility here.
Sure, some food is more nutritious than other food (also depending which nutrients you want at the time) but there is no such thing as "food like products" - that is just silly zealots talk.
Out of curiosity, does USA or other countries have confectionary free aisles? They do here, not by govt regulation,but in response to parent group's requests. Usually only one or two per supermarket but at least gives parent the option to use that aisle if they are having problems with tantrums, or anyone having problems with their own temptations.
Just a question to the thread,anyone can answer please.0 -
Thanks will add to list of must see documentaries! WOW this thread Wow!0
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Wonderfullyma,I am not going to try quoting again after I mucked up my last attempt - but calling some food "food like products" is really not helping your credibility here.
Sure, some food is more nutritious than other food (also depending which nutrients you want at the time) but there is no such thing as "food like products" - that is just silly zealots talk.
Out of curiosity, does USA or other countries have confectionary free aisles? They do here, not by govt regulation,but in response to parent group's requests. Usually only one or two per supermarket but at least gives parent the option to use that aisle if they are having problems with tantrums, or anyone having problems with their own temptations.
Just a question to the thread,anyone can answer please.
A food like product is manufactured food... if you are eating chemicals, preservatives disguised to look like a nutritious food, it's not food, it's a product. Apple is a food, artificial apple flavoring is not. Never seen a candy-free aisle in Canada or the states.0 -
So should this expand to all types of food issues people have? My brother is allergic to peanut butter, should we ban it from store shelves?
What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.
Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.
Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.
Because they know people do not exercise self-control. If people would learn and use that value, than it wouldn't matter where stores placed their candy. Exercise self control and it wouldn't matter where they placed it or what kind of commercials they show. Exercise moderation and then it wouldn't matter how often it's consumed, because it would all be a part of a well balanced diet.
Yes, exactly, because they know the notion of self-control when it comes to addictive substances is a farce. When you treat a heroin addict, you advise them to change their friends, the places they will get triggers -- basically their environment, because it is so overwhelmingly a predictor to their behaviour. It's not simply "self-control", it's more than that.. and the industry is playing us with addictive sugar, lack or misinformation and control of our environment. And a well-balanced diet should not include junk, exercise or not. That's like saying, a little poison is acceptable... NO, get that crap away from me!0 -
And for those that are talking about "parental responsibility" and don't have kids, STFU.
No
Sorry but having kids doesn't make you a special snowflake and automatically immune to criticism
Honestly the fact that you would even pull that card is kinda pathetic.
It's pathetic when someone who has NO IDEA on the difficulties of raising a child in this world, blames everything on only one factor - parents and not the environmental impact of the world around. Kids spend 8 hours a day in a school with public education (provided by government), eat in school cafeterias, see billboard after billboard in transport or in stores... but of course, it's absolutely 100% parental responsibility for the impact and education that these children receive -- especially about food.
And that's the cop out parents have used to get out of everything.
Sorry don't care about your sob story. Oh and If you read up I said PERSONAL AND PARENTAL responsibility.
Also I even said that it's not really the parents fault a lot of the time. Sometimes it is though.
And no you can't monitor everything. But you can't expect to control everything. I never made any assumptions like that. You have just decided to attack me because I mentioned that parental responsibility is a problem in many cases .. and it is.
You are just appealing to parenthood to get out of the fact that your argument on sugar stinks and it's not worth wasting any more time on you.
I didn't give you a sob story and you went from saying "The obvious culprit. And the one we want to ignore because we know it is the source.
Personal and Parental responsibility. " to "sometimes" and "You can't monitor....control everything". I see my point sank in.
When you are trying to shuffle your 4 year old through the grocery store and they are wailing for some junk they see at the counter that you have no intention of feeding them but it's there, it will even more.
I take responsibility for my kids. If you don't then you are the problem. My 4 year old does pretty well in grocery stores. She knows what she's allowed, which does include sweets, and funny enough her pediatrician is absolutely amazed at how fit (strong) both our daughters are. It's you, not the industry and sugar. Take responsibility.
Wait until your kids are teenagers and those perfect parent/ perfect child living in a bubble ideals roll away. Great parents can still end of with kids who make bad choices -- why? because they have other sources of influence their whole lives. You may set a good foundation but they will eventually make friends, have boyfriends/girlfriends, read books...
That's what failures say about everything. It's not my fault. I can't control. Of course you don't have 100% control, but the absolute most important influence on any child is his/her parents, and if you're already making excuses with a 4 year old, all I can say is best of luck.
Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.
No it's not. They're intelligent and I treat mine as future adults who can take responsibility for their actions, and learn about nutrition, athletics, and excel academically all at the same time. Set expectations high and encourage. It works. Or make excuses and blame the world around you for your children's problems.
Of course, encouragement is amazing and can really help a child grow and do well. The reality is though, great children and great parents will still have to face failures, mistakes, wrong decision making. Ideally, our children would be perfect and have a perfect environment. Poor people would easily climb social ladders through achievement on their own merits, hard workers would make the most money, the nicest would have the best relationships... etc.
Yea, it's all futile, life is unfair, give up now . . .
Of course life has challenges, so it's better to teach your child how to face and overcome them successfully. Believe it or not life skills can be taught, but you have to do more than throw your hands in the air and complain.
Yes, I agree that you give every effort for your child to survive and thrive. Doesn't mean I give up on things like criticizing the food industry for the impact they have on us, our food choices, our health. My family is ultra important and that's why social justice and accountability to those that have an impact on our health environment means that much more.
So now, is your fault or the industry's that your child can't behave in a grocery aisle? I just want to be clear here.
If my child wasn't surrounded by candy, she wouldn't want it. It's quite well known that grocery items are strategically placed to incite desire. Have you been to a grocery counter that didn't have a pack of gum at arms reach? Do you think they see more or less gum sales from people because they are easy to pick up while you are waiting in line? Do I think that the average person waiting for gum spends time reading the ingredients, analyzing it's negative/positive health benefits or do the marketing people know that we are impulse buyers and our kids will want the candy?
And there it is. The bubble of irresponsible parenting
Now, now, it's also proven fact that supermarkets make people buy Star Magazine. And TV Guide. Hmm, more evidence that they caused obesity.
However, all this was true even before obesity was common--much as one could go to McD and could buy soda back when I was a kid, and yet there were almost no overweight kids--but why bother with reality when there's blame to cast!
Ok smartypants, what has caused the increase in obesity rates then? Offer a reason so we can take your interjection seriously.0 -
Since I seem to be participating in this conversation largely, I must bid you adieu... would love to chat more but need to drive the car pool in the morning. If I can find time, I'll return but this lady does have a life off screen.
At the very least, if this conversation peaks your interest, watch the documentary link I posted too...http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2013-2014/the-secrets-of-sugar
Michael Pollan also writes some great books about food politics.
Phinney, an amazing scientist/ researcher talks here about nutritional ketosis,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkQYZ6FbsmI
Enjoy!0 -
I'm gonna speculate and say it has more to do with the a lack of personal responsibility that is becoming so common today.And for those that are talking about "parental responsibility" and don't have kids, STFU.
No
Sorry but having kids doesn't make you a special snowflake and automatically immune to criticism
Honestly the fact that you would even pull that card is kinda pathetic.
It's pathetic when someone who has NO IDEA on the difficulties of raising a child in this world, blames everything on only one factor - parents and not the environmental impact of the world around. Kids spend 8 hours a day in a school with public education (provided by government), eat in school cafeterias, see billboard after billboard in transport or in stores... but of course, it's absolutely 100% parental responsibility for the impact and education that these children receive -- especially about food.
And that's the cop out parents have used to get out of everything.
Sorry don't care about your sob story. Oh and If you read up I said PERSONAL AND PARENTAL responsibility.
Also I even said that it's not really the parents fault a lot of the time. Sometimes it is though.
And no you can't monitor everything. But you can't expect to control everything. I never made any assumptions like that. You have just decided to attack me because I mentioned that parental responsibility is a problem in many cases .. and it is.
You are just appealing to parenthood to get out of the fact that your argument on sugar stinks and it's not worth wasting any more time on you.
I didn't give you a sob story and you went from saying "The obvious culprit. And the one we want to ignore because we know it is the source.
Personal and Parental responsibility. " to "sometimes" and "You can't monitor....control everything". I see my point sank in.
When you are trying to shuffle your 4 year old through the grocery store and they are wailing for some junk they see at the counter that you have no intention of feeding them but it's there, it will even more.
I take responsibility for my kids. If you don't then you are the problem. My 4 year old does pretty well in grocery stores. She knows what she's allowed, which does include sweets, and funny enough her pediatrician is absolutely amazed at how fit (strong) both our daughters are. It's you, not the industry and sugar. Take responsibility.
Wait until your kids are teenagers and those perfect parent/ perfect child living in a bubble ideals roll away. Great parents can still end of with kids who make bad choices -- why? because they have other sources of influence their whole lives. You may set a good foundation but they will eventually make friends, have boyfriends/girlfriends, read books...
That's what failures say about everything. It's not my fault. I can't control. Of course you don't have 100% control, but the absolute most important influence on any child is his/her parents, and if you're already making excuses with a 4 year old, all I can say is best of luck.
Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.
No it's not. They're intelligent and I treat mine as future adults who can take responsibility for their actions, and learn about nutrition, athletics, and excel academically all at the same time. Set expectations high and encourage. It works. Or make excuses and blame the world around you for your children's problems.
Of course, encouragement is amazing and can really help a child grow and do well. The reality is though, great children and great parents will still have to face failures, mistakes, wrong decision making. Ideally, our children would be perfect and have a perfect environment. Poor people would easily climb social ladders through achievement on their own merits, hard workers would make the most money, the nicest would have the best relationships... etc.
Yea, it's all futile, life is unfair, give up now . . .
Of course life has challenges, so it's better to teach your child how to face and overcome them successfully. Believe it or not life skills can be taught, but you have to do more than throw your hands in the air and complain.
Yes, I agree that you give every effort for your child to survive and thrive. Doesn't mean I give up on things like criticizing the food industry for the impact they have on us, our food choices, our health. My family is ultra important and that's why social justice and accountability to those that have an impact on our health environment means that much more.
So now, is your fault or the industry's that your child can't behave in a grocery aisle? I just want to be clear here.
If my child wasn't surrounded by candy, she wouldn't want it. It's quite well known that grocery items are strategically placed to incite desire. Have you been to a grocery counter that didn't have a pack of gum at arms reach? Do you think they see more or less gum sales from people because they are easy to pick up while you are waiting in line? Do I think that the average person waiting for gum spends time reading the ingredients, analyzing it's negative/positive health benefits or do the marketing people know that we are impulse buyers and our kids will want the candy?
And there it is. The bubble of irresponsible parenting
Now, now, it's also proven fact that supermarkets make people buy Star Magazine. And TV Guide. Hmm, more evidence that they caused obesity.
However, all this was true even before obesity was common--much as one could go to McD and could buy soda back when I was a kid, and yet there were almost no overweight kids--but why bother with reality when there's blame to cast!
Ok smartypants, what has caused the increase in obesity rates then? Offer a reason so we can take your interjection seriously.0 -
Wonderfullyma,I am not going to try quoting again after I mucked up my last attempt - but calling some food "food like products" is really not helping your credibility here.
Sure, some food is more nutritious than other food (also depending which nutrients you want at the time) but there is no such thing as "food like products" - that is just silly zealots talk.
Out of curiosity, does USA or other countries have confectionary free aisles? They do here, not by govt regulation,but in response to parent group's requests. Usually only one or two per supermarket but at least gives parent the option to use that aisle if they are having problems with tantrums, or anyone having problems with their own temptations.
Just a question to the thread,anyone can answer please.
Our self serve aisles are like that, and of course there are a range of groceries with different aisle set ups.
But I've not heard of any for parents or a demand for it.0 -
I'm gonna speculate and say it has more to do with the a lack of personal responsibility that is becoming so common today.And for those that are talking about "parental responsibility" and don't have kids, STFU.
No
Sorry but having kids doesn't make you a special snowflake and automatically immune to criticism
Honestly the fact that you would even pull that card is kinda pathetic.
It's pathetic when someone who has NO IDEA on the difficulties of raising a child in this world, blames everything on only one factor - parents and not the environmental impact of the world around. Kids spend 8 hours a day in a school with public education (provided by government), eat in school cafeterias, see billboard after billboard in transport or in stores... but of course, it's absolutely 100% parental responsibility for the impact and education that these children receive -- especially about food.
And that's the cop out parents have used to get out of everything.
Sorry don't care about your sob story. Oh and If you read up I said PERSONAL AND PARENTAL responsibility.
Also I even said that it's not really the parents fault a lot of the time. Sometimes it is though.
And no you can't monitor everything. But you can't expect to control everything. I never made any assumptions like that. You have just decided to attack me because I mentioned that parental responsibility is a problem in many cases .. and it is.
You are just appealing to parenthood to get out of the fact that your argument on sugar stinks and it's not worth wasting any more time on you.
I didn't give you a sob story and you went from saying "The obvious culprit. And the one we want to ignore because we know it is the source.
Personal and Parental responsibility. " to "sometimes" and "You can't monitor....control everything". I see my point sank in.
When you are trying to shuffle your 4 year old through the grocery store and they are wailing for some junk they see at the counter that you have no intention of feeding them but it's there, it will even more.
I take responsibility for my kids. If you don't then you are the problem. My 4 year old does pretty well in grocery stores. She knows what she's allowed, which does include sweets, and funny enough her pediatrician is absolutely amazed at how fit (strong) both our daughters are. It's you, not the industry and sugar. Take responsibility.
Wait until your kids are teenagers and those perfect parent/ perfect child living in a bubble ideals roll away. Great parents can still end of with kids who make bad choices -- why? because they have other sources of influence their whole lives. You may set a good foundation but they will eventually make friends, have boyfriends/girlfriends, read books...
That's what failures say about everything. It's not my fault. I can't control. Of course you don't have 100% control, but the absolute most important influence on any child is his/her parents, and if you're already making excuses with a 4 year old, all I can say is best of luck.
Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.
No it's not. They're intelligent and I treat mine as future adults who can take responsibility for their actions, and learn about nutrition, athletics, and excel academically all at the same time. Set expectations high and encourage. It works. Or make excuses and blame the world around you for your children's problems.
Of course, encouragement is amazing and can really help a child grow and do well. The reality is though, great children and great parents will still have to face failures, mistakes, wrong decision making. Ideally, our children would be perfect and have a perfect environment. Poor people would easily climb social ladders through achievement on their own merits, hard workers would make the most money, the nicest would have the best relationships... etc.
Yea, it's all futile, life is unfair, give up now . . .
Of course life has challenges, so it's better to teach your child how to face and overcome them successfully. Believe it or not life skills can be taught, but you have to do more than throw your hands in the air and complain.
Yes, I agree that you give every effort for your child to survive and thrive. Doesn't mean I give up on things like criticizing the food industry for the impact they have on us, our food choices, our health. My family is ultra important and that's why social justice and accountability to those that have an impact on our health environment means that much more.
So now, is your fault or the industry's that your child can't behave in a grocery aisle? I just want to be clear here.
If my child wasn't surrounded by candy, she wouldn't want it. It's quite well known that grocery items are strategically placed to incite desire. Have you been to a grocery counter that didn't have a pack of gum at arms reach? Do you think they see more or less gum sales from people because they are easy to pick up while you are waiting in line? Do I think that the average person waiting for gum spends time reading the ingredients, analyzing it's negative/positive health benefits or do the marketing people know that we are impulse buyers and our kids will want the candy?
And there it is. The bubble of irresponsible parenting
Now, now, it's also proven fact that supermarkets make people buy Star Magazine. And TV Guide. Hmm, more evidence that they caused obesity.
However, all this was true even before obesity was common--much as one could go to McD and could buy soda back when I was a kid, and yet there were almost no overweight kids--but why bother with reality when there's blame to cast!
Ok smartypants, what has caused the increase in obesity rates then? Offer a reason so we can take your interjection seriously.
I agree with this. Also inactivity, and a breakdown in cultural norms surrounding food. People have this idea of the SAD that is completely unlike what I thought of as the standard American diet when I was a kid, based on how we ate. Meat, potatoes, and a vegetable (usually canned or overcooked, granted), home cooked and eaten with the family together at the table. I went through a phase where I thought it was terribly unsophisticated and laughed at how unhealthy--my family would have been weirded out by meatless meals, although we did have lots of fish, for example. We also didn't have pasta, only spaghetti and occasional lasagna, of a sort, and I don't think I tried most ethnic foods til college. But in retrospect how I ate then isn't so different from how I eat now (but with fresh veggies, cooked well), and I was given an intuitive understanding of balanced, nutritious food that many younger people seem to have grown up without. We were not given fast food other than a rare treat, not because it was unavailable, but because that wasn't a proper way to eat. Candy was also rare, as was soda (though we called it pop). It's this sense of boundaries, that you can't have whatever you want when you want it that has, sadly, changed.
Jeez, when did I get so old?0 -
Please stop. I've heard this claim made before but have seen no evidence to support it. If you have no actual empirical evidence, then you're just saying based on what you've heard.Its not realistic. Sugar is added to everything to make it taste better, so that you will buy it. Why to they do all the taste tests? For example, do you expect you french fries to be coated in sugar? ..probably not...but if you buy them from McDonalds or the store..they are. It make them brown up and look better. I don't know about you , but if I was making fries at home I wouldn't be coating them in sugar first. So how is the consumer supposed to know other than to avoid all processed foods?
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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