Have you seen FED UP - the documentary?

wonderfullymadebyhim

And for those that are talking about "parental responsibility" and don't have kids, STFU.

No

Sorry but having kids doesn't make you a special snowflake and automatically immune to criticism

Honestly the fact that you would even pull that card is kinda pathetic.

It's pathetic when someone who has NO IDEA on the difficulties of raising a child in this world, blames everything on only one factor - parents and not the environmental impact of the world around. Kids spend 8 hours a day in a school with public education (provided by government), eat in school cafeterias, see billboard after billboard in transport or in stores... but of course, it's absolutely 100% parental responsibility for the impact and education that these children receive -- especially about food.

And that's the cop out parents have used to get out of everything.

Sorry don't care about your sob story. Oh and If you read up I said PERSONAL AND PARENTAL responsibility.

Also I even said that it's not really the parents fault a lot of the time. Sometimes it is though.

And no you can't monitor everything. But you can't expect to control everything. I never made any assumptions like that. You have just decided to attack me because I mentioned that parental responsibility is a problem in many cases .. and it is.

You are just appealing to parenthood to get out of the fact that your argument on sugar stinks and it's not worth wasting any more time on you.

I didn't give you a sob story and you went from saying "The obvious culprit. And the one we want to ignore because we know it is the source.

Personal and Parental responsibility. " to "sometimes" and "You can't monitor....control everything". I see my point sank in.

When you are trying to shuffle your 4 year old through the grocery store and they are wailing for some junk they see at the counter that you have no intention of feeding them but it's there, it will even more.

Sounds like someone needs to woman up and say no to her kid more often. My 3 year old even knows that we don't buy all the snacks she would like. She doesn't even ask for them. Who the frak cares if your kid is wailing for snacks. It doesn't mean you have to get them. My 3 year old get to pick out a cereal and a snack and as many fruits and vegetables as she wants. She is still one of the healthiest and smallest kid in her class. Children need to learn balance and moderation from a young age. When that happens then the sparkly packaging and wonderous advertisements won't be so enticing. Either that or my little one is a special snowflake and I'm a perfect mom.

And my kid can say the alphabet backwards and yours can't so you need to learn to teach her better? C'mon!! If you're trying to compare how great and well-behaved your kid is to mine, please don't. You have no clue how I parent my child.

Yes, but he's allowed to say it and give an opinion because he's a parent. Right? Or am I wrong? Have the rules changed?

Because honestly, what are you arguing here? That because grocery stores have an impulse fixture at their registers and your kid screams for sugar that the government needs to step in and regulate everything?

I've raised three kids and not one of them have screamed for candy at the register. So do I win because I've raised three kids past the teenage years and they're healthy and happy and yet they're still allowed to eat sugar?

I'm very confused.....

It's been a long conversation so it's no wonder you're confused.

My point is and has always been a response so someone who said that it is all about our own will and choice in terms of our success. You put it in your mouth, you did it and that's it. I responded that I believe the food industry is culpable to a large degree about what we have been eating, what we believe is healthy and that information that is pertinent to our health -- like how bad sugar is for you has been oppressed.

The conversation has digressed a lot -- but points have been made about environment, parental control, personal control and I continue to point out that environment makes a huge impact on our choices whether we like it or not. Doesn't matter how educated we want to be, when information is withheld, we are not informed. When food industry withholds it for its own profit taking, it's criminal. Obviously, my opinion. As a sociology major, parent, foster parent (worked with kids who have had lots of needs deprived), and someone who has struggled with food addiction my whole life, I feel as if we can do better and hold industry to better standards, rather than put the emphasis simply on personal control. Yes, I am better informed in my 40s than I was in my 20s but I certainly don't expect a 12 year old to be. I don't expect that single mom holding down 2 jobs to keep up with it all and I'm pretty confident most are trying their very best.

usmcmp

It's been a long conversation so it's no wonder you're confused.

My point is and has always been a response so someone who said that it is all about our own will and choice in terms of our success. You put it in your mouth, you did it and that's it. I responded that I believe the food industry is culpable to a large degree about what we have been eating, what we believe is healthy and that information that is pertinent to our health -- like how bad sugar is for you has been oppressed.

The conversation has digressed a lot -- but points have been made about environment, parental control, personal control and I continue to point out that environment makes a huge impact on our choices whether we like it or not. Doesn't matter how educated we want to be, when information is withheld, we are not informed. When food industry withholds it for its own profit taking, it's criminal. Obviously, my opinion. As a sociology major, parent, foster parent (worked with kids who have had lots of needs deprived), and someone who has struggled with food addiction my whole life, I feel as if we can do better and hold industry to better standards, rather than put the emphasis simply on personal control. Yes, I am better informed in my 40s than I was in my 20s but I certainly don't expect a 12 year old to be. I don't expect that single mom holding down 2 jobs to keep up with it all and I'm pretty confident most are trying their very best.

I'm a single mom with two jobs. One of my sons is on the autism spectrum. I'm also a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter.

I'd love to see your food diary. You should make it public. MIne is public.

wonderfullymadebyhim

If my child wasn't surrounded by candy, she wouldn't want it. It's quite well known that grocery items are strategically placed to incite desire. Have you been to a grocery counter that didn't have a pack of gum at arms reach? Do you think they see more or less gum sales from people because they are easy to pick up while you are waiting in line? Do I think that the average person waiting for gum spends time reading the ingredients, analyzing it's negative/positive health benefits or do the marketing people know that we are impulse buyers and our kids will want the candy?

And there it is. The bubble of irresponsible parenting

She really just doesn't understand that sheltering her child from candy is putting them in a bubble. She has ignored multiple comments from me (a single mom) stating that I was sheltered and I went wild when I finally had freedom.

Sometimes my kids ask if they can have candy when we are near the check out. I usually tell them no. Sometimes we have other treats they've picked out. I do let them pick from time to time and have never had to deal with a tantrum when I said no.

Didn't see your comment, couldn't keep up...

Look, that's your choice... expose your kids and then they'll be conditioned to self control? I'm more likely to say... there is a garbage can over there. You don't need to open it to know it's garbage. I'll just point and say, don't open that it's yucky. I'm glad you've got your tactics for handling grocery store lineups. I have mine but it doesn't stop and immature child from wanting, asking. Plus, you know that every kid is unique. let's not compare parenting techniques..

usmcmp

If my child wasn't surrounded by candy, she wouldn't want it. It's quite well known that grocery items are strategically placed to incite desire. Have you been to a grocery counter that didn't have a pack of gum at arms reach? Do you think they see more or less gum sales from people because they are easy to pick up while you are waiting in line? Do I think that the average person waiting for gum spends time reading the ingredients, analyzing it's negative/positive health benefits or do the marketing people know that we are impulse buyers and our kids will want the candy?

And there it is. The bubble of irresponsible parenting

She really just doesn't understand that sheltering her child from candy is putting them in a bubble. She has ignored multiple comments from me (a single mom) stating that I was sheltered and I went wild when I finally had freedom.

Sometimes my kids ask if they can have candy when we are near the check out. I usually tell them no. Sometimes we have other treats they've picked out. I do let them pick from time to time and have never had to deal with a tantrum when I said no.

Didn't see your comment, couldn't keep up...

Look, that's your choice... expose your kids and then they'll be conditioned to self control? I'm more likely to say... there is a garbage can over there. You don't need to open it to know it's garbage. I'll just point and say, don't open that it's yucky. I'm glad you've got your tactics for handling grocery store lineups. I have mine but it doesn't stop and immature child from wanting, asking. Plus, you know that every kid is unique. let's not compare parenting techniques..

Like I said: I predict your daughter will either start sneaking it behind your back or she'll end up with orthorexia by the time she's 12. That's what happens when you restrict food and you demonize it.

k8blujay2

What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.

Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.

paperpudding

Sure it's realistic. Do some people choose not to? Sure, but that's their responsibility. I, personally, would rather live in a world where I am free to make mistakes or engage in actions that some people apparently think are "unhealthy" (like eating some ice cream on occasion), then be told by the government (i.e., well-meaning people like you, who think we should hold corporations liable for selling ice cream, it seems) that I cannot make that choice.

I do not agree with banning or governments or anybody telling us what we can or cannot eat - however I do beleive in informing the customer so they can make informed choices.
Thus detailed labelling on all food/drink products showing the sugar, calorie(or kiliojoule) sodium etc per 100ml/ 100g. The alcohol content per 100ml on alcoholic products.

I am confused as to whose response this is (is the quoting screwed up?), but I'm all in favor of labeling. However, we already have this information on the labels. Is someone claiming we do not?

as companies usually wont do this voluntarlly I am in favour of compulsory labelling - like we have here in Australia, in fact.

And in the US.

I also agree that total calorie consumption is what causes obesity - however for many people increased sugar consumption is a major factor in their over consumption of calories.

Sure, but just like you have to be an idiot to not get that adding lots of butter makes something have far more calories or that deep dish pizza or a double Whopper with large fries are high in calories, people who eat lots of sugary treats know (or should know) that they are consuming lots of non-nutrient dense calories. They just don't care. Heck, I used to buy a cookie at Potbelly's (local chain that, despite the name, has reasonably low calorie options) along with my sandwich. The calorie count was right in front of me, yet I knew it would interfere with my enjoyment of the cookie, so I chose not to look. Is Potbelly's responsible for selling the cookies? Or was I? Obviously, me. And now if I on rare occasion want a cookie (or half), I choose to do so within my calories and there's nothing unhealthy about it. (Also, the actual calories in a cookie owe more to butter and then flour than sugar--it's kind of interesting to look at the actual breakdown. It's just sugar is the trendy bad guy.)

Yes I screwed up the quoting a bit - sorry about that.

My comment was in response to your comment about not wanting govt's to ban any food. I am not disagreeing with you, was just adding to that line of thought.
I haven't seen labels in the US but my understanding from reading this forum is that they label in 'serving sizes' which
Can be misleading, rather than in the uniform per 100ml or 100 g which we have here and makes direct comparisons much easier.

I don't disagree that ingredients other than sugar can be high in calories - but I also think many people are not aware of how much added sugar is in foods, not obvious sugary foods like cakes but yoghurt, savoury foods, flavoured milk etc.

And I still think the easiest way for many people to reduce their calorie intake is to reduce their intake of high sugar foods and drinks -but I am not saying that is the only way to reduce calories or that having any of those high sugar foods at all is unhealthy.

wonderfullymadebyhim

It's been a long conversation so it's no wonder you're confused.

My point is and has always been a response so someone who said that it is all about our own will and choice in terms of our success. You put it in your mouth, you did it and that's it. I responded that I believe the food industry is culpable to a large degree about what we have been eating, what we believe is healthy and that information that is pertinent to our health -- like how bad sugar is for you has been oppressed.

The conversation has digressed a lot -- but points have been made about environment, parental control, personal control and I continue to point out that environment makes a huge impact on our choices whether we like it or not. Doesn't matter how educated we want to be, when information is withheld, we are not informed. When food industry withholds it for its own profit taking, it's criminal. Obviously, my opinion. As a sociology major, parent, foster parent (worked with kids who have had lots of needs deprived), and someone who has struggled with food addiction my whole life, I feel as if we can do better and hold industry to better standards, rather than put the emphasis simply on personal control. Yes, I am better informed in my 40s than I was in my 20s but I certainly don't expect a 12 year old to be. I don't expect that single mom holding down 2 jobs to keep up with it all and I'm pretty confident most are trying their very best.

I'm a single mom with two jobs. One of my sons is on the autism spectrum. I'm also a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter.

I'd love to see your food diary. You should make it public. MIne is public.

I prefer to keep my private diary private but I'll share the general details. I was on a calorie restricted diet many times over and it never worked -- I failed and hungered. More recently, I've switched to a ketogenic diet and the weight is coming off effortlessly. I rarely feel like hungry, my mind is sharp, and I don't fatigue on my endurance exercise anymore. My diary tends to include limited carbs, and what does comes from leafy greens and cruciferous veges, moderate proteing 1.5-2.5 gm per KG of lean body mass, and the rest coming from fats - mostly from animal sources, coconut oil, and butter. About 1600 calories per day roughly.

ThePhoenixIsRising

I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.

I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!

Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!



*sarcasm*

wonderfullymadebyhim

Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.

Except that you freak out when she wants a treat in the grocery store. Sounds like a bubble to me.

Why do you assume I freak out? I rarely even raise my voice to her.

wonderfullymadebyhim

I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.

I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!

Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!



*sarcasm*

Welcome to the conversation! LOL

ThePhoenixIsRising

I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.

I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!

Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!



*sarcasm*

Welcome to the conversation! LOL

Have I missed where you changed your mind?

wonderfullymadebyhim

What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.

Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.

Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.

usmcmp

Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.

Except that you freak out when she wants a treat in the grocery store. Sounds like a bubble to me.

Why do you assume I freak out? I rarely even raise my voice to her.

You are posting on here that you are highly upset that she is exposed to the availability of candy. You are trying to shelter her. Freaking out doesn't mean you yelled at her. It means that you want the government to step in and stop candy from being on display. You want to shelter your daughter from seeing it.

wonderfullymadebyhim

I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.

I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!

Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!



*sarcasm*

Welcome to the conversation! LOL

Have I missed where you changed your mind?

We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!

usmcmp

What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.

Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.

Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.

So what? Why shouldn't you have some from time to time?

k8blujay2

What do you expect? You just told me to "woman up" and judged me because I most certainly must not say "no" so that's why my child desires candy at the counter because you've got a child that doesn't? You just implied my parenting style is "yes" to whatever she desires and that created that behavior. That's not how this household runs and I'm appalled that another parent assumes that.

Yes I did say that. Because obviously you would rather blame stores and their strategically placed candy for your child's outbursts than to teach them some self control. Now unless your kid has some sensory processing disorder, kids at the ages of 3 or 4 can reason that they don't always get candy and to not have fits about it. But then I am starting to think my child really is a special snowflake.

Again, the stores wouldn't put the stuff there if they didn't know 100% that incites desire. You can say your child is wonderfully controlled but we know that they sell billions of dollars of candy and spend millions on advertising, consumer research, product placement, commercials etc because it impacts our behavior as consumers.

Because they know people do not exercise self-control. If people would learn and use that value, than it wouldn't matter where stores placed their candy. Exercise self control and it wouldn't matter where they placed it or what kind of commercials they show. Exercise moderation and then it wouldn't matter how often it's consumed, because it would all be a part of a well balanced diet.

ThePhoenixIsRising

I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy. This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic. Yes, we need to make good choices, but the food industry does everything in its power, including manipulating and funding studies that are pro-sugar and suppressing science that goes against it. The consumer is confused because the mega-corporations have done a marketing job so slick that the average person has no idea they are choosing bad when they pick most of these items off the shelf.

I hope more people stand up for the consumer!!

Yes, let's continue to remove all individual responsibility a person has for themselves!



*sarcasm*

Welcome to the conversation! LOL

Have I missed where you changed your mind?

We're on page 7.. you've got some reading to do!!

I have read, and at every turn you advocate the removal of choice and responsibility from the consumer.

wonderfullymadebyhim

Not an excuse but I can say that my 4 year old is not a robot isolated in a bubble, with a personality that only I can control. A child's will is not simply built by parent.

Except that you freak out when she wants a treat in the grocery store. Sounds like a bubble to me.

Why do you assume I freak out? I rarely even raise my voice to her.

You are posting on here that you are highly upset that she is exposed to the availability of candy. You are trying to shelter her. Freaking out doesn't mean you yelled at her. It means that you want the government to step in and stop candy from being on display. You want to shelter your daughter from seeing it.

Sorry then, I picture freaking out as going batsh*t on her in the line up. Of course it's annoying that I have to look at that crap in the line up and know that my daughter is being taunted by it every time she comes with me. So am I .. I used to be totally addicted to sugar. Seeing a chocolate bar triggers the desire.

I would like industry to be accountable and culpable on how they advertise, what chemicals, including sugar are presented as "food" so that the average person that is trying to shop for their family is buying food, not food-like products. I'd like to see better labeling, accurate information, and less processed crap being identified as food.

I'd like people who believe in consumer choice to also advocate for healthy choices, not every choice. I'd like good food in stores that children can buy from so that a 12 year old doesn't need a dictionary when they go to 7/11 -- if the food is even labeled.

Instead of assuming I want the government do everything for me, isn't it ok to believe that the government is there to work on behalf of me and those things that I want?

lemurcat12

I don't buy that the corporation has no culpability when they are willingly presenting and advertising food to consumers they know is addictive and not healthy.

It's not addictive, but as far as that goes, no one is in an uproar about companies that make and sell alcohol these days.

As for "not healthy" -- who decides? Lots of things that consumers want are unhealthy if consumed in excess quantities. Yet no one blames, say, TV manufacturers for people watching too much TV.

This idea that we are all so educated, intelligent and able to make good decisions on our food is just not realistic.

Sure it's realistic. Do some people choose not to? Sure, but that's their responsibility. I, personally, would rather live in a world where I am free to make mistakes or engage in actions that some people apparently think are "unhealthy" (like eating some ice cream on occasion), then be told by the government (i.e., well-meaning people like you, who think we should hold corporations liable for selling ice cream, it seems) that I cannot make that choice.

sugar is not addictive? It is often compared to going through heroine addiction. Have you gone sugar free ever? It is very hard because its in everything. Its in chicken you buy from perdue or other chicken sellers. Its in cereal, bread, all condiments, drinks, juices, everything or its in code as sugar free as maltose dextrose fructose xylitol alcohol sugar cane sugar sucrose high fructose corn syrup corn syrup and more names that people dont even know or recognize as sugar. But yet thats no problem?

Yeah, I've gone no added sugar, no fruit, no grains. It wasn't hard for me and there was nothing like withdrawal. (I didn't give up fruit, which seems idiotic to me. I just wasn't eating it because much in the winter anyway and was experimenting.) Now, of course I was eating other foods that converted to sugar, and veggies with sugar, but probably was as low in sugar as any but real low carb people and honestly the idea that it is anything like heroin withdrawal is mind boggling. Also, having had my own issues with addiction (booze), it just seems a crazy comparison. Maybe for some, but a physical addiction like heroin is self-evidently false and discredits those who claim it.

I buy my chicken from a local farm, so I'm confident it's sugar free. I don't think it's difficult to know where your sugar is from if you care, but I've always eaten more whole foods than not (although I also intentionally eat foods with sugar now--not just carrots and fruit and dairy, but chocolate and ice cream, etc.). However, the idea that any commercial chicken, plain chicken, has an appreciable amount of calories from sugar is one I'm skeptical of.

wonderfullymadebyhim

For me, it's like saying to a drug addict, what's wrong with one pull of this joint?