Don't believe in "Starvation Mode"?
Replies
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I never make my calories in a day, but my reason is I always think I get the food wrong that I home make and leave extra for this... I've lost 13 pounds since December, is this about right?0
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I never make my calories in a day, but my reason is I always think I get the food wrong that I home make and leave extra for this... I've lost 13 pounds since December, is this about right?
Dudeness- that is a fine and healthy pace. Just keep in mind your "Calories burned From Daily Activity" (on your goals page) in reference to your daily goal and keep in mind that sometimes the answer to weightloss frustrations can just as easily be to add 100 calories to your daily goal, as to drop even lower. Focus on getting the most amount of healthy food you can and you will keep doing well!
What is being talked about with starvation mode, or famine response, is a slowing of the BMR- essentially your metabolism slows down to adjust to the lower amount of food/caloric intake. When you restrict food, your body adjusts by slowing your metabolism- this doesnt stop burn, but since MFP is based on these estimates, slowing them down can affect your estimation.
For me- I like to eat and enjoy my food, I have no desire to figure out what the fewest amount of calories I can live on are. If you do have this interest, like lodro above, that's great because he has it researched and in consciously making specific efforts. But for your MFPer, it can be an easy sandtrap to fall into because they just assume that less calories = more loss.0 -
Has it been addressed anywhere else in this thread that eating a severely calorie restricted (1000 cals a day) but nutrient rich diet slows the ageing process and mice put on this type of diet live twice as long as normally fed mice? There are a fair few humans doing it to extend their life span.
I am eating this way: for me, calorie restriction is not about weight loss, and in my case, my metabolism adapting to the low caloric intake is actually a good thing! I want that adaptation to happen, because otherwise eating around 1000 Calories a day would be impossible. Because of the care I take over nutrition it's not as if "my body is eating itself", or my muscle is "wasting away". But actually, everyone who is losing weight will lose both fat and muscle tissue.
That's not true, if you do it right you can burn fat and build muscle at the same time. I'm living proof, and many others are too. Especially when you begin with a higher body fat percentage. The leaner you get, the more difficult it becomes.
I can assure people though that if you're constantly in deficit you will continue to lose weight albeit at a decreasing rate. For most people, 1000 Calories will be between 50% - 60% of their daily energy expenditure, unless they work out a lot, then of course it may be 25% and that's clearly unsustainable.
My exercise consists of long distance walking, for which i train daily, and of periods in the field when I do much heavy physical work to maintain a base camp.0 -
When you get closer to your goal, it will be different.I never eat mine
obviously nothing has kept me from losing.
what if you aren't hungry? should you eat back those calories anyway?0 -
When you get closer to your goal, it will be different.I never eat mine
obviously nothing has kept me from losing.
what if you aren't hungry? should you eat back those calories anyway?
[/quote]
Part of one of my posts:
Starving/Not Hungry?
One of the most important aspects of this plan is that it helps you retrain your body and your mind to recognize healthy eating habits. This includes eating healthy foods and a healthy AMOUNT of food. If you are here, you likely have bad eating habits. Bad eating habits are not simply eating too much. Skipping meals, eating too little, eating irregularly, and eating the wrong ratio of macros (protein/fat/carb) are all habits that will contribute to an unhealthy weight.
MFP is a tool to help your body and mind to recognize how much you should be eating, how often, and what kinds of food. In the beginning, you may feel starving. Or you may not feel hungry at all. You should not necessarily trust either of these feelings. If you have abused your body, it has adapted to your bad habits and no longer gives you cues for a healthy intake. Aim for your daily cal goal, and give your body time to adjust to these changes. It may take days or weeks for your body to adapt to a healthy intake of healthy food. You didn’t learn your bad habits overnight, and you won’t fix them overnight.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/186814-some-mfp-basics
Increase cals throughout the day (25-50 cals more per meal/snack) and you won't feel like you're stuffing yourself. Undereating is just as bad as overeating.
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Has it been addressed anywhere else in this thread that eating a severely calorie restricted (1000 cals a day) but nutrient rich diet slows the ageing process and mice put on this type of diet live twice as long as normally fed mice? There are a fair few humans doing it to extend their life span.
I am eating this way: for me, calorie restriction is not about weight loss, and in my case, my metabolism adapting to the low caloric intake is actually a good thing! I want that adaptation to happen, because otherwise eating around 1000 Calories a day would be impossible. Because of the care I take over nutrition it's not as if "my body is eating itself", or my muscle is "wasting away". But actually, everyone who is losing weight will lose both fat and muscle tissue.
I can assure people though that if you're constantly in deficit you will continue to lose weight albeit at a decreasing rate. For most people, 1000 Calories will be between 50% - 60% of their daily energy expenditure, unless they work out a lot, then of course it may be 25% and that's clearly unsustainable.
My exercise consists of long distance walking, for which i train daily, and of periods in the field when I do much heavy physical work to maintain a base camp.
That's not true, if you do it right you can burn fat and build muscle at the same time. I'm living proof, and many others are too. Especially when you begin with a higher body fat percentage. The leaner you get, the more difficult it becomes.0 -
I hate beeing hungry, so I eat when I am hungry and stop eating when I feel full. Thats why I eat almost every 2 hours something small. Nobody should starve. That is not natural. Doesn't matter if you eat up your calories or not as long you are never hungry.0
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bump0
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Has it been addressed anywhere else in this thread that eating a severely calorie restricted (1000 cals a day) but nutrient rich diet slows the ageing process and mice put on this type of diet live twice as long as normally fed mice? There are a fair few humans doing it to extend their life span.
I am eating this way: for me, calorie restriction is not about weight loss, and in my case, my metabolism adapting to the low caloric intake is actually a good thing! I want that adaptation to happen, because otherwise eating around 1000 Calories a day would be impossible. Because of the care I take over nutrition it's not as if "my body is eating itself", or my muscle is "wasting away". But actually, everyone who is losing weight will lose both fat and muscle tissue.
I can assure people though that if you're constantly in deficit you will continue to lose weight albeit at a decreasing rate. For most people, 1000 Calories will be between 50% - 60% of their daily energy expenditure, unless they work out a lot, then of course it may be 25% and that's clearly unsustainable.
My exercise consists of long distance walking, for which i train daily, and of periods in the field when I do much heavy physical work to maintain a base camp.
That's not true, if you do it right you can burn fat and build muscle at the same time. I'm living proof, and many others are too. Especially when you begin with a higher body fat percentage. The leaner you get, the more difficult it becomes.
As I said, in my case, I'm not interested in weightloss (actually, I'm losing weight, but it's stabilizing and to me that's a good thing) and I'm also not interested in building muscle, except for being as fit as I can be under the given circumstances.0 -
...I'm also not interested in building muscle, except for being as fit as I can be under the given circumstances.
Not to sound like a smart *kitten*, but that sounds like an oxymoron. How do you get fit, especially for a guy, without building muscles?!?!0 -
...I'm also not interested in building muscle, except for being as fit as I can be under the given circumstances.
Not to sound like a smart *kitten*, but that sounds like an oxymoron. How do you get fit, especially for a guy, without building muscles?!?!
building muscle has very little to do with being fit, ie, have stamina. if i can successfully participate in 40KM walking events, and do the odd kennedy march, I consider myself to be fit enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_march0 -
I can't say anything about rats and mice,.,,but I can say that our stored fat is our stored fuel...There will come a time when there is no more stored fat you have to eat normally...Drinking water and taking a multivitamin a day is very important...
I am not sure I believe everything on wiki but Harrison's Principal for Internal Medicine 15th ed Chapter 74 Malnutrition and Nutritional Assessment says that every obese person can live up to one year without food...It makes logical sense that if your body has alot of fuel and fat is stored fuel then why would we add more fuel??? I don't know about you but I do not refill my car until I am on a quarter tank...
You do have to make sure your nutrition is taken care of. You can only live a few days without water and you need your kidneys and liver working to it's fullest....but the reality is you bring in less calories then you burn and you loose weight..0 -
Every change you throw at your body triggers a response. The problem with many diet and exercise programs is that they can accidentally encourage your body to defend fat, shed muscle, increase appetite and even lower its metabolism. The key to fast results is to know exactly which actions will cause your body to adapt by becoming fitter.
Maybe you've tried before to get in shape. But for some reason, you didn't get the results you wanted. If you're like I used to be, you've repeated that cycle year after year to no avail. Maybe you've failed so many times that you think of yourself as a “special case.” You've started to believe your entire metabolism consists of a little turtle on a treadmill. You wonder whether you've got the fat gene. You're convinced that no matter how hard you diet, your cells can still be seen eating Twinkies when viewed under a microscope.
Look. You're not a special case. Even if you had the fat gene (common among Pima Indians but rare otherwise), you'd only be burning 50-60 calories a day less than anybody else. Even if you've been diagnosed with a metabolic difficulty such as diabetes or hypothyroidism, you can still be successful with proper medical support. Most probably, other approaches failed you either because they were missing important pieces, focused on the wrong things, or produced results so slowly that you just gave up. What you need most is good information. You're in the right place.
The law of unintended consequences
Your body is an amazing feedback system aimed at balance and survival. Humans are at the top of the food chain because they are able to adapt to their environment. Every action produces a reaction. Every change in its environment triggers a survival response. It's important to keep that in mind when you plan your fitness program. If you treat your body as an enemy to be conquered, you'll produce unintended results.
For example, if you severely cut off the supply of food to your body, it will defend itself by slowing down its metabolism to survive starvation. The body will shed muscle mass the same way that you would throw cargo from a plane that was low on fuel, and it will reduce its thyroid activity to conserve energy. The body will also actually defend its fat stores. In anorexia, muscle loss can be so profound that fat as a percentage of body weight actually rises. Extreme carbohydrate restriction also causes muscle loss, dehydration, and slower metabolism, which is why even successful Atkins dieters can have a significant rebound in weight after they stop the diet (don't worry – the advice on this site will prevent that from happening).
As another example, if you put your body under stress through overexertion and lack of sleep, it will respond by slowing down, reducing muscle growth, and increasing your appetite for junk food, carbohydrates and fat. If you feed your body excessive amounts of sugar and quickly digested carbohydrates, and it will shut off its ability to burn fat until those sugars are taken out of the bloodstream.
This website will show you how to work with your body to quickly produce the changes you want. In order to do that, you need to take actions that push your body to adapt – to build strength, burn fat, and increase fitness. You need a training program, not an exercise routine. You need a nutrition plan, not a diet. You need a challenge, not a few good habits you usually try to follow except when you don't.
Setting the right goal
John Dewey once said that a problem well-stated is half-solved. If you want to reach your goal, you have to define it correctly. See, a lot of people say “I want to lose weight.” Well, if losing weight is your goal, go on a no-carb diet. You'll lose a lot of weight – some of it will be fat, a lot of it will be water, and a dangerous amount will be muscle tissue. You'll lose weight quickly, but you'll slow your metabolism and gain fat more quickly once you go off the diet. Trust me on this. I've been there, done that.
The problem is that you've set the wrong goal. If you want to look better, have more energy and enjoy better health, the goal is not simply to “lose weight.” The goal is to improve your fitness level and body composition. That means losing fat, improving your aerobic capacity, training your strength and defending your muscle tissue. You can't do that with a no-carb diet. You will do it using the approach you'll learn on this website. Trust me on this one too. I know what it's like to feel fat, tired and helplessly out of shape. The whole point of this site is to help others avoid that, by sharing lessons that I had to learn the hard way.
http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TPAdaptation.html0 -
Every change you throw at your body triggers a response. The problem with many diet and exercise programs is that they can accidentally encourage your body to defend fat, shed muscle, increase appetite and even lower its metabolism. The key to fast results is to know exactly which actions will cause your body to adapt by becoming fitter.
Maybe you've tried before to get in shape. But for some reason, you didn't get the results you wanted. If you're like I used to be, you've repeated that cycle year after year to no avail. Maybe you've failed so many times that you think of yourself as a “special case.” You've started to believe your entire metabolism consists of a little turtle on a treadmill. You wonder whether you've got the fat gene. You're convinced that no matter how hard you diet, your cells can still be seen eating Twinkies when viewed under a microscope.
Look. You're not a special case. Even if you had the fat gene (common among Pima Indians but rare otherwise), you'd only be burning 50-60 calories a day less than anybody else. Even if you've been diagnosed with a metabolic difficulty such as diabetes or hypothyroidism, you can still be successful with proper medical support. Most probably, other approaches failed you either because they were missing important pieces, focused on the wrong things, or produced results so slowly that you just gave up. What you need most is good information. You're in the right place.
Lovely :flowerforyou:0 -
Has it been addressed anywhere else in this thread that eating a severely calorie restricted (1000 cals a day) but nutrient rich diet slows the ageing process and mice put on this type of diet live twice as long as normally fed mice? There are a fair few humans doing it to extend their life span.
I am eating this way: for me, calorie restriction is not about weight loss, and in my case, my metabolism adapting to the low caloric intake is actually a good thing! I want that adaptation to happen, because otherwise eating around 1000 Calories a day would be impossible. Because of the care I take over nutrition it's not as if "my body is eating itself", or my muscle is "wasting away". But actually, everyone who is losing weight will lose both fat and muscle tissue.
That's not true, if you do it right you can burn fat and build muscle at the same time. I'm living proof, and many others are too. Especially when you begin with a higher body fat percentage. The leaner you get, the more difficult it becomes.
I can assure people though that if you're constantly in deficit you will continue to lose weight albeit at a decreasing rate. For most people, 1000 Calories will be between 50% - 60% of their daily energy expenditure, unless they work out a lot, then of course it may be 25% and that's clearly unsustainable.
My exercise consists of long distance walking, for which i train daily, and of periods in the field when I do much heavy physical work to maintain a base camp.
Actually you can preserve muscle mass by weight lifting/strength training.0 -
I never eat mine
obviously nothing has kept me from losing.
At heavier weights you will lose more fat mass. As you get smaller the percentages change and you will start to lose more muscle than fat. Weight lifting/strength training can help that.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/187973-an-email-response-that-might-help-some?page=1#posts-24934770 -
Quote from the OP: "These people are always close to their goal weight. They always work out an insane amount, usually large amounts of cardio. They NEVER go over their calorie goal and are usually under it. They rarely eat back their calories. They eat a really balanced diet and rarely break from their diet. "
I am probably going to jinx myself, but this sounds just like me, except I do have 23 more pounds to get to goal. But I always stay at 1200 cals, never eat my exercise cals, cardio exercise 5 to 7 times a week, and I have stuck to it since 1/1/11. I have lost 25 pounds since then, between 1.5 and 3 pounds a week steadily. No plateau!! I keep waiting for it, but it never comes!! Anybody know why?
No strength training. You are losing precious muscle mass with that much cardio!0 -
There are a lot of topics in the health and fitness field that seem 'controversial'. I use that term loosely though as there is always going to be a study or experience that proves something to be right or wrong. It's all in how researchers present the information.
I don't think you can call it starvation mode though when someone hits a plateau. People can hit plateaus on a 1400 calorie diet or a 700 calorie diet. It's about keeping your body guessing. I don't believe it is healthy to consume under 1200 calories per day, mentally or physically. I also feel the same about doing excess amounts of cardio... as this will slow your metabolism. Not because of the 'starvation mode', but because you begin to sacrifice precious muscle which will reduce your metabolic rate. Same goes with hitting a plateau after you have lost weight. You must adjust your calories according to weight loss. Your body needs less to survive.
Some may consider 'starvation mode' to be a slang word or jargon... you know like 'muscle confusion'. It is really just a decrease in your metabolism from have a reduction in calories or high expenditure of calories over an extended period of time. This can easily be prevented by cycling your macronutrients, increasing intensity and decreasing time, cycling calories so you take in more on more intense workout days, lifting harder, etc.
Another huge mistake people make is eating way under protein and way over on carbohydrates. It's much easier for the body to turn carbohydrates into fat than it is to turn protein into fat. It is more likely that people eating way under their calories (as in under 1200) to lose weight are taking in poor carbohydrate sources in excess rather than eating a lot of protein to meet their 'calorie goal'. Again, this is going to reduce metabolic rate.
Love this info. MFP puts you at 15% protein. I'm sorry but that sucks. I upped mine to 35%. I have carbs at 40% and fat at 25% and this was advice from a PT/weight loss advisor here on MFP. Stroutman81. He has been wonderful for me.0 -
hosnickers...
I agree with most of what you are saying...However anorexia is a mental condition... When you are severely overweight you burn fat...simple...when you do not have enough storage your metabolic rate will decrease there is no question...
We worry about people becoming anorexic....It is a mental condition...Just like fibromyalgia is not an understood psychical condition that has been claimed to be mental and Anorexia is a chemical imbalance of the brain. It does not matter how much we try to be careful...if you are anorexic you are in a mental condition that is creating a physical manifestation.......nothing we say or do is going to change that....
Most of the people here that are talking about not believing in starvation are WAY overweight.....we do not need to worry about our muscle mass..at this second..in saying that I work out 2 and half hours a day and I eat under 600 Calories...My blood pressure has dropped and I am becoming way more toned for someone who is loosing a lot of muscle that is impressive...
Aspartame is not good for a person either but most doctors will say if that is how we can get rid of the fat....diet soda away.....for most of us that are "starving" ourselves we are looking at the end of life if we stay fat....so we are in the position where we need to SHED fat.....we did it to ourselves,we are learning the same as every one else and if and when shed the fat we better learn how to eat or we are going to gain it all back.....
it is simple....A gastric bypass recipient is not starving themselves on a restricted diet because they got cut by a knife but other are? A gastric bypass surgery alone proves the theory that humans do not need a lot of food.....Not only do they loose weight quickly but for the REST OF THEIR LIVES they have to eat no more than an ounce to two ounces of food....What does this mean??? they will all be anorexic??? No it means that the human body does not need as much food as we think it does......It means that a obese person CANNOT starve themselves.......
How can someone obese believe in something that cannot be true........Can bears die of starvation??? No and while their metabolism drops they loose hundreds of pound sleeping in hibernation.........There is studies everywhere and everyone believes that they are right.....
The reality is we fat people have fat to spare...and we want it gone....0 -
Has it been addressed anywhere else in this thread that eating a severely calorie restricted (1000 cals a day) but nutrient rich diet slows the ageing process and mice put on this type of diet live twice as long as normally fed mice? There are a fair few humans doing it to extend their life span.
I am eating this way: for me, calorie restriction is not about weight loss, and in my case, my metabolism adapting to the low caloric intake is actually a good thing! I want that adaptation to happen, because otherwise eating around 1000 Calories a day would be impossible. Because of the care I take over nutrition it's not as if "my body is eating itself", or my muscle is "wasting away". But actually, everyone who is losing weight will lose both fat and muscle tissue.
That's not true, if you do it right you can burn fat and build muscle at the same time. I'm living proof, and many others are too. Especially when you begin with a higher body fat percentage. The leaner you get, the more difficult it becomes.
I can assure people though that if you're constantly in deficit you will continue to lose weight albeit at a decreasing rate. For most people, 1000 Calories will be between 50% - 60% of their daily energy expenditure, unless they work out a lot, then of course it may be 25% and that's clearly unsustainable.
My exercise consists of long distance walking, for which i train daily, and of periods in the field when I do much heavy physical work to maintain a base camp.
Actually you can preserve muscle mass by weight lifting/strength training.
I've been tracking this (I follow this program under supervision, because it is part of a study) and I haven't lost that much muscle mass. But actually I want to hang on to the fat I have.0 -
hosnickers...
I agree with most of what you are saying...However anorexia is a mental condition... When you are severely overweight you burn fat...simple...when you do not have enough storage your metabolic rate will decrease there is no question...
We worry about people becoming anorexic....It is a mental condition...Just like fibromyalgia is not an understood psychical condition that has been claimed to be mental and Anorexia is a chemical imbalance of the brain. It does not matter how much we try to be careful...if you are anorexic you are in a mental condition that is creating a physical manifestation.......nothing we say or do is going to change that....
Most of the people here that are talking about not believing in starvation are WAY overweight.....we do not need to worry about our muscle mass..at this second..in saying that I work out 2 and half hours a day and I eat under 600 Calories...My blood pressure has dropped and I am becoming way more toned for someone who is loosing a lot of muscle that is impressive...
Aspartame is not good for a person either but most doctors will say if that is how we can get rid of the fat....diet soda away.....for most of us that are "starving" ourselves we are looking at the end of life if we stay fat....so we are in the position where we need to SHED fat.....we did it to ourselves,we are learning the same as every one else and if and when shed the fat we better learn how to eat or we are going to gain it all back.....
it is simple....A gastric bypass recipient is not starving themselves on a restricted diet because they got cut by a knife but other are? A gastric bypass surgery alone proves the theory that humans do not need a lot of food.....Not only do they loose weight quickly but for the REST OF THEIR LIVES they have to eat no more than an ounce to two ounces of food....What does this mean??? they will all be anorexic??? No it means that the human body does not need as much food as we think it does......It means that a obese person CANNOT starve themselves.......
How can someone obese believe in something that cannot be true........Can bears die of starvation??? No and while their metabolism drops they loose hundreds of pound sleeping in hibernation.........There is studies everywhere and everyone believes that they are right.....
The reality is we fat people have fat to spare...and we want it gone....
Actually, studies have shown that extreme dieting can BRING ON eating disorders where there were none before.
And we are not bears, and do not have the same metabolic systems they do. Comparing the two is simply not applicable. And while some doctors may recommend a VLCD for morbidly obese individuals, those individuals also have a diet planned for them by a dietitian to ensure that all nutritional needs are met. It is a VERY precise combination of foods that most people cannot meet on their own. Comparing someone monitored by a doctor trained in metabolic issues and dietitian to someone working without the benefit of those medical experts is also not applicable.
Also, just because some individuals are in a situation to need extreme measures such as VLCD, does NOT mean that strategy is without risks. It just means that the benefits MAY outweigh the risks for that specific individual. Rapid weight loss through LCD/VLCD (with or without WLS) carries numerous risks, including but not limited to: gallstones, arrhythmias, hair/skin problems, excessive loose skin, menstruation/fertility issues, malnutrition, bingeing and weight regain. For a very few individuals, again, these risks may be acceptable in the face of the risk of death through medical issues caused by morbid obesity
But that does not negate the validity of the concept of starvation mode (or, more technically, adaptive thermogenesis). While it may not be an issue temporarily for someone who is morbidly obese, it WILL be sooner or later, as they lose weight and become more lean.0 -
I'm not reading thru 14 pages but I will leave this comment...
going well under 1200 calories a day, provided you get in your major nutrients) is FINE for those who are morbidly obese or who have a LOT more they NEED to lose... HOWEVER, once your body is close to getting to a "safe" weight, it will plateau. your body can NOT go into "starvation mode" at this point.
Plateau'ing is your body talking to you saying I do not have enough energy( calories) needed to fight off fat.0 -
Bump for finishing reading later.0
This discussion has been closed.
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