Senior Golden Sneakers -May 2011
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JAKE, don't hear from you often enough, but when we do, it's a doozy!
BARBIE, thanks for the clipart URL; I'm starting to experiment again! Hope you receive an offer from those hunters!
NUDQT, welcome to SNEAKERS; sounds like you are really doing well.
GAYLA:drinker: so great to see you back here! We missed you, and now we are slowly getting together again. I think most of us are probably at pretty much the same place we were when you took that hiatus, so we'll continue to share our adventures, haps and mishaps again! I found your story about you, PHOEBE and MARIE a revelation. I, too, had been on another site which MSN closed down, and I guess it was more important to my self control than I realized! And delighted your house is finished! So WELCOME HOME
MARIE: tut-tut :noway: we love you and understood you were under stress and not one of us, including you, meant harm to anyone!
We are like family: a misunderstanding here and there, but a stronger bond holds us together! I hope you will al overlook my transgressions as well as everyone else on the board, as we are here for support and sometimes constructive help as well:drinker:
And have a lovely shopping day with Alice!
JERI, we will all think positive about your biopsy, and please keep us informed. Enjoy the baby!
SANDY, I think your son is correct, and I have a way to go, but I will remember that as it makes perfect sense!
By the way, I think I ate almost 1/2 that walnut raisin crusty bread yesterday! I will not go near it today, and it must end up in my new freezer! After being so careful, too!
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Buzz0 -
Thank you, Barbie, worked the 1st try!
Buzz 0 -
Marie, or should I say Mrs. Beautiful Blue Eyes, your picture made me
Jake, your joke made me :laugh:
Beautiful day here. Went to church, grilled some sweet italian chicken sausage (very tasty), potted some plants and soon will go for a walk. A good day of rest.
According to the scale today I was down 1.5 which would put me at my personal goal. :noway: Wednesdays are my official weighin day so if I can keep it off, I'll count in on Wednesday and send up the fireworks! Keep your fingers crossed.
Dee :flowerforyou:
PS When I do reach goal, I will post my before and after photos. I have never done that!0 -
:flowerforyou: Marie, your pictures turned out great. It looks like they are from Flickr. I haven't tried positing photos from that site.:bigsmile: You are not the only person who has had bad responses to stress. We are like family and families have their ups and downs and we hug and forgive and keep on going. :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
:bigsmile: nudqt, welcome to the family. I hope you'll post more so we can get to know you
:bigsmile: Gayla, I'm glad to see you back with the family. Thank you for telling the story about how you and Phoebe and Marie met. I could never figure out how the three of you who were from such diverse geographical locations had become such fast friends. I'll be interested in hearing future stories of your renovations. going through things and getting rid of stuff is very energizing and therapeutic.:bigsmile: the only things we're doing with our garden beds is keeping the weeds out. We hope to move long before anything would be growing this summer.:bigsmile: WW is a great plan. They have such a good reputation so it must work well.
:bigsmile: Jeri, I admire your courage taking care of your 19 month old grandson. I don't think I could do that.....the others are right, it will keep your mind off yourself and the upcoming test results.
:bigsmile: :bigsmile: Sandy, it is great to hear that you are losing weight and heading toward that new goal. That's great advice to eat more on the days you are active. I love the days when I have line dance class and go on long walks because I burn more calories so I can eat. And I don't like the days that I have a long drive and long meeting and have to sit too much because then I can't eat as much. I hope things go well for you at your stepson's I know that is always a stressful visit.:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: you did an amazing job with the new graphics.:bigsmile: :bigsmile:
:laugh: Buzz, you are like me with that bread :laugh: I could never have it in the house.:bigsmile: Glad you liked the link to the glitter graphics. They have a ton of cute stuff. I have wasted a lot of time looking through all the great pictures :laugh:
:flowerforyou: Dee, congratulations on reaching your goal. i will love seeing before and after pictures.:bigsmile:
:bigsmile: today is Isagenix cleanse day. I walked the dogs early then took them to the dog park and now I am relaxing with the computer and TV. We have beautiful weather so the dog park was very busy. I think one of my plans for the afternoon will be taking a nap.0 -
Hello everyone,
What a lot of posts in one day. Phew!!
Well a good nights sleep and I am feeling great again. The weather has been sunny and warm but very windy. The family were all round today, so we were in the garden for most of the day. I do love having them round, they fill the house with laughter (most of the time) and noise!!!:happy: I am so lucky that they live local and I get to see them lots.:bigsmile: We keep trying to get an up to date photo of us all, but there always seems to be another member due, so never quite up to date. The next one is due in July!
My daughter says she will help me to post a couple of photos tomorrow. We seem to be having a problem with our Adobe flashplayer!!! So it won't let me go on those photo sites, clicart or let me watch videos, you tube etc. So frustrating. My bro in law is away at the moment, and he normally see's to our computer, so I will have to wait another week for him to see whats wrong. I love those glitter pics and can't wait to have a look.
Gayla, as I joined, you took your hiatus. I am glad you are back, so I can get to know you. I do know that eveyone on here has missed you, so a big' Welcome Back':flowerforyou: I loved hearing your story. Getting up without an alarm and sitting with a cuppa, not rushing about sounds heavenly:bigsmile: I look forward to hearing more about Neil, he seems pretty popular!
Marie, I am so pleased for you both that Jerry' voice has recovered. My sister was ill with cancer and the waiting for results was always extremely stressful. Far more than the treatments. She is in the clear now, thank god. Positive thoughts are sent to Jerry for his results too:bigsmile: Have a great time with Alice. Your photo is lovely. You both look so happy.
Jeri, You will be fine taking care of your grandson. You would'nt have been asked if you were'nt up to it. You will have a great time with him. Hope you had a good time today with your family.:bigsmile:
Sandy, congratulations on losing more weight. You are so strong! Your son talks a lot of sense.:happy: I hope your evening goes well at your stepsons. I know this can be difficult for you:flowerforyou:
Buzz, I am still trying with the water. I sometimes go for ages and forget to drink, then I put the kettle on. Bad habits but I am trying hard to break them. I take milk in my tea, so cannot count them. I am having 8oz glasses at the moment, as the 16oz look a bit daunting just now!!:drinker: How about if you slice the bread before freezing, then you can take out just a slice when you want it, rather than the whole loaf? BTW hows it going with your new freezer. You all sorted now?
Dee, congratulations on your weight loss and reaching your goal. I am sure you will fine on Wednesday but I know what you mean.:flowerforyou: I am looking forward to seeing those photos.
Barbie, what is isagenix cleanse day? I have seen you mention that before but have no idea what it is!
Jake, Love that:laugh: Keep em coming!!
Welcome Nudqt:happy:
I was thinking about you all earlier this evening, and I am truly amazed and grateful at how quickly you all welcomed me and made me feel at home. I feel I have made such great friends in all of you and in such a short period of time. Something I never thought possible could happen just by typing into a computer! I feel I am getting to know each one of you really well, and at times want to give you a hug for whatever you are going through or just because I feel like it. Thanks for letting me be slushy:laugh: And I do feel like giving you all a hug, sooo (((( hugs)))) for you all.
(Sorry. It's a very long post)0 -
DEB. What a nice post. I joined shortly before you and I echo your comments. This fine group of ladies and a gent or two make me feel very welcome. As some if you know I just had a breast biopsy after a very suspicious mammogram and ultrasound. I am getting so much love and support from this group as I wait for the results. I am so glad I found you all..0
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It is getting late and I am tired but I had to post to say what great pictures are posted today. Jeri, is that you will all of those tulips?
What a great picture!!! Marie, the picture of you and Jerry is great, what a great looking couple you are.
Jeri, of course we are here for you, we pray and hope for nothing but good news with your tests.
Deb, your post was so nice, thank you and since you are part of our family, we feel the same towards you.
We are always here for each other through good times, bad times and for what ever else we might need.
As it turned out we didn't go to my step sons after all, our weather was so bad we didn't want to leave the house. It just would have been to hard to get Babe in the car while it was raining. It rained so hard we lost power for a short time but it came right back. Zack was upset we didn't go to see his cousin but so was Marisa so Cheryl came here with Marisa and we put together a quick dinner of hamburgers and hot dogs. The kids got to play and Chery, Brad and I got to play a game of dominoes. Cheryl said Phil was in a foul mood and Babe is still cranky so it all worked out for the best.
In the morning we have a parade which we follow to the middle of town where they have a service for our armed forces followed by snacks and music. After that we hope to go to the pool and will end up at Phil and Cheryl's for dinner. I hope everyone has a safe and happy Memorial Day.0 -
Hi to you all from cloudy Saskatchewan. I bought my bedding plants today so am hoping to have a warm and rain free day tomorrow to get them in the ground. I am really sorry that I didn’t buy new planters for the deck as they are looking a little sad. I will watch for sales in the fall. The first day of WW has gone well. I am a little under my points and that won’t happen again!!! That may have something to do with my headache. When I suggested to Dave that may be the case I got the eye roll and ‘right’.
Neil decided mid-afternoon today that he was ready to go to his home. He thought one of the other guys would be missing him. I was planning on having him here for dinner but didn’t say anything about that. We were so happy to take him home at his suggestion and no whining. Life can be so strange sometimes.
Thanks to everyone for your warm welcome back. You are without doubt the most wonderful girlfriends a girl could have.
Marie – Glad you are feeling more like yourself. I am not sure what happened but there is no need to explain. I think it is a good idea to just go on from here. Sometimes new diets can mess with our moods a bit as well just as mine has given me a headache today. I can’t even imagine the stress you have been under. I am so glad that Jerry is getting better every day. I completely understand how wonderful it is for him to have a voice and for you to hear that voice. It all sounds very positive to me.
Saturday will be my WI day for now. Is Alice still doing WW? Hi to her! Wonderful picture of you two lovebirds!
Jeri – How nice to have family coming. That baby will lift your spirits for sure! I am sending lots of positive thoughts your way.
Sandy – You girls are getting very crafty with the graphics!! I have taken a few pictures and now I have to figure out how to share them. I go in spurts with posting pictures and each time I have to relearn the process. I said we were pretty much done the renovations. I should have added the disclaimer – for now – as I think we are going to take out the carpet in the living room and dining room and put in hardwood. Again, I am using the we very loosely. Right now Dave is trying to get our boat ready for the lake this summer. He just has some inside work to do and then it should be ready. Nothing nicer than being on the lake on a hot and breezy day! I hope the evening at your stepsons went well. It is odd that with all he went through and survived he doesn’t look at life with a brighter lens!
Buzz – Missed you too. I am looking forward to an on track summer. Bread is a killer for me as well and yours sounded so good.
Dee – You are doing amazing! It looks like you are getting very close to your goal. Great work!!
Barbie – Hope the cleanse day went well. So proud of you for staying with your plan. This really is like an extended family and I am surely glad to be back!
Deb -- Sorry, nearly missed your post and what a nice one it was. There is nothing better than having family around. The young folks brings so much laughter and joy. I look forward to getting to know you.
And that is my saga for today. Have a wonderful Monday, the start to a successful week.
Off to bed. :yawn: 0 -
Good morning Sneakers. Hope you all has a wonderfull weekend. Mine was favolouse.
Gayla I am using flicker now. or I ahould say i am leaarning to used it You don't have to mess with that IMG stuff. I don' know if I an this morning will hav to give it a try. again without Alice being here. She slso downloaded book reading site and order me a cookbook on Paleo . Oh what fun. It is kindle. I can make the print as big as I need them,
Barbie I havent look into that new site You gave us but I certainly will. My feeble old brain can just take in so much at a time.
Deb I am sp screw up on keeping my dairy And i really dont surpose to on the plan I am on. But i so want to keep up with my carbs0 -
I hope everyone has a wonderful Memorial Day and appreciates the freedom we have in this Country thanks to all who serve, served and died for us. We will be going to the parade and maybe some swimming today and will end up at my step sons. It will be a fun day for the kids and when they are happy I am happy.
Have a wonderful day, as Gayla said you are family!!!0 -
I would like to share this with our group, whether domestic or "friends", as it is self explanatory...WE ARE ALL ONE!!! :drinker:
Written by an Australian Dentist
__________________________THANK YOU, AUSTRALIA________________________
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To Kill an American
You probably missed this in the rush of news, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper, an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.
So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial the following day to let everyone know what an American is. So they would know when they found one. (Good one, mate!!!!)
'An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, Arab, Pakistani or Afghan.
An American may also be a Comanche, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans..
An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than inAfghanistan . The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.
An American is also free to believe in no religion.. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.
An American lives in the most prosperous
land in the history of the world..
The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence , which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.
An American is generous.. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return.
When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country!
As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan ..
The national symbol of America , The Statue of Liberty , welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America
Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001, earning a better life for their families. It's been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.
So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty tyrants in the world.. But, in doing so, you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.
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________________________________________________[_______________________________________________________
I found this to be profoundy moving, and a re-iteration of what my generation learned in public schools as soon as we could Pledge Allegiance to our Flag! Memorial Day is a very moving Holiday for us, and I'm sharing this e-mail I received today; a reminder of who we are! Thanks for having the patience to read it!
Buzz0 -
MARIE,, fantastic picture of two happy people! ANd you both have much to be smiling about! :bigsmile:
DEE...I stand in awe of your accomplishment! Ya done GREAT ! :flowerforyou:
BARBIE; I am having so much good luck with your link (as you can see!); not so much luck with the bread! So far, holding my own, but never again will I buy that fabulous homemade CRUSTY delicious (healthy?) bread, even if it kills me to pass it by!
Yes, please do explain once again the isegenix WOL, as I, too, do not quite understand it. Your energy level and weight consistency are pretty darn impressive!
DEB, you might want to delete your Adobe Flashplayer and re-download it again at www.adobe.com...as it is being constantly upgraded and the old versions become dangerous, anyway! Go to you Control Panel/Programs/uninstall/Adobe Flash, and then onto the ADOBE website to install the latest version.
By the way, the bread WAS sliced; it didn't ever make it into the freezer! I still am redoing the refrigerator to see where it makes the most sense for things to be easily found! Attempting to fit all the tall stuff on the door shelf that's high. Slowly but surely it's starting to look better! The all-over temperature on this is extremely even, so nothing freezes near the walls. My "toy"!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
JERI, We are here for you, dear gal! Lean on us at this time, however we can help!
SANDY said..
Isn't it nice that somehow things straighten themselves out about our worst apprehensions??? Sandy, you have great strength, and handle things so graciously. Just keep that lovely chin up!".Cheryl said Phil was in a foul mood and Babe is still cranky so it all worked out for the best."
GAYLA---what a nice story regarding Neil's decision. Obviously he feels needed and part of his new home! What an achievement, and how important for his self esteem! We are all truly happy for all of you!
You have real courage, Gayla, for undertaking more redecorating, so you must be very pleased with your achievements so far!
OK, off to lunch, and will hold the last of the bread, I hope. So what happened to the new-found self control?:ohwell:
Buzz0 -
Well, I never had lunch; got lost finding photos to upload and lost figuring out how to get the "restored" file to upload! Gosh, I doubt I'll remeber how I bubled my way to the few I succeeded doing! My new MAIN photo was probably '04, crossing the Rhine to visit a castle overlooking the river, where the old lords used to collect fees from the boats passing under!
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Now, I loved this picture from Barbie's link, but I cannot figure out how to put it into an e-mail! Can anyone help out? I don't want it as an attachment, and I can't figure out how to simply include it! (P.S. Forget it; I just R/clicked "Copy" and then pasted it on my email, and it worked!)
The sun is shining and it's pouring outside my window! That's Florida!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Buzz0 -
Sorry, BARBIE, but I'm getting carried away by your darn website link---no lunch---no nosh---no nothin'! Here's one I found for all you DANCE-A-HOLICS, and I finally got a moving graphic!
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Don't you feel like joining them? Worth how many calories burned?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Buzz0 -
:flowerforyou: Good afternoon to all. I wore my red down vest and knitted wool stars and stripes hat today first to walk the poodles in the neighborhood and later at the dog park. That tells you that we don't have summery weather :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Nevertheless Jake planned a great barbecue for us. He picked out the rib eye steaks, bbq sauce, and corn on the cob and grilled the steaks on the gas grill outside. I cooked the corn on top of the stove and roasted onions, peppers, mushrooms, and zucchini in the oven.:bigsmile: We rarely eat read meat so this was a special meal for us :bigsmile:
:flowerforyou: Gayla, how great to hear that Neil is gaining some more independence. His choice to go back to his home rather than stay with you was another step for him in being a separate entity.:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: After all the years of caring for him, it must feel strange............Isn't part of the challenge of remodeling that once you do something you start to see more things that you want to change or fix ??
:flowerforyou: Marie, one good thing about keeping up with your food diary is you can track certain nutrients. I looked at your diary for today and noticed that your new paleo lifestyle is keeping the sodium down and I know that was a problem for you for awhile.:bigsmile: I have never used a Kindle but you make a good point about it that you can make the print bigger. That sounds like something useful. I like the feel of holding a book so I haven't been interested in Kindle or the other electronic books.
:flowerforyou: Sandy, I love the holiday graphic. I hope all goes well for you at your stepson's today. You are such a trooper going there week after week. I know Babe appreciates your willingness to do that.
:flowerforyou: Buzz, thank you for sharing the article about being an American. I am grateful for my country and my blessing to have been born here and for the people who have protected us.:bigsmile: Sometimes I have to detour around the bakery section in the grocery store because the bread looks so good.:laugh: :laugh: You have quickly become an expert with posting glitter graphics :bigsmile:
:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: Deb and Buzz, Isagenix is a nutritional cleansing and fat burning system.........it was developed by a formulator who was trying to make something to remove the poisons from a spider bite from his body and discovered that his formula promoted weight loss. Isagenix is primarily meant for nourishing your body and cleansing out all the impurities that accumulate in the cells which in turn releases fat and helps to build lean muscle mass. Jake found out about it from his chiropractor whose mission is to help people "Think well, move well, and eat well". Jake had been wanting to lose weight (the cardiologist had been pressing him but nothing he did seemed to work and what did work wasn't something he could stick to). He decided to give the Isagenix program a try and bought what he needed for 30 days. I was skeptical but agreed to make some changes in my eating to go along with him. The program is two Isagenix meal replacement shakes and 400-600 calories in a meal and small snacks each day and a cleanse day one day a week. After just a few days before I could even notice any weight loss, Jake stopped taking his long afternoon nap and exhibited energy that I hadn't seen in years. After awhile I joined him on the program and have stayed with it for more than two years.:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: The cleanse day is what cleans the impurities from your cells (it's not a colon cleanse). The products are natural and herbal. On the cleanse day we have a four ounce cleanse beverage four times a day, a nutritional drink called Ionix Supreme and some Isagenix snacks and supplements. One of the snacks is a dark chocolate called IsaDelight.:bigsmile: We use our cleanse day as a day of rest and do restful chores, relax together, watch TV, and often take a nap.:bigsmile: I have always been pretty energetic so I was amazed when I began to have even more energy and became more inclined to walk or dance rather than sit at the computer or sit and do crafts.0 -
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OMG, Buzz, this is the greatest picture I've seen:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I may have to steal it and put it in my signature :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:0 -
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You can steal it, Barbie; for you, it's appropriate, you know!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Marie, you're becoming the real pro!!!:drinker:
Buzz0 -
Another nice day here today. We were as busy as could be. First we had to drive 5 of our grandkids to soccer because the 19 month old was sick and then took my Mom for blood tests. Finally at about 4;30pm we were able to head home.
It is good to keep busy.
Here's another photo from our trip to Ontario and Quebec.
Wild Flower in Rural Quebec by FancyLady, on Flickr0 -
Good morning Sneakers
That must have bee a lovely place Jeri The. Flowers are amazing.0 -
Good Morning! :flowerforyou:
Wonderful weekend! However, this morning I'm wringing out laundry. My washer filled and died.:grumble: Repairman comes Friday. Things could be worse. :ohwell:
I was still at goal this morning......Tomorrow's official weighin. I need to learn how to post photos on the forum so I can post the before/after. Jeri, how did you post that gorgeous flower picture?
Bandit's doing well. Meds seem to be working. :happy:
It's very hot here today. Since I'm going to the Mall to get my hair cut, I'll mall walk in the cool.
Later! :flowerforyou:0 -
Dee here is a site that may help you. I did me
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/26580-photo-help
Its lots of fun.0 -
Afternoon Sneakers! It's been a beautiful day here, sun very warm when it peaked out from behind the clouds, and after ,,the Library van, shopping, making a spicy chickpea and potato thing for lunch, I've spent the past couple of hours re-potting tomatoes and cucumbers and hauling them to the other end of the garden. Planting out Dwarf French beans, and planting up wall troughs with bedding plants. That's what I like in the way of exercise!
After misbehaving badly over the last couple of weeks (calorie wise, nothing else worse luck :laugh: ) I have finally climbed on the wagon again, and Brian has agreed that we need to do something together. Nothing to do with the "fitted" shirt he bought that is a smidgeon tight you understand I'll keep mentioning the bikes he always says we're going to get.
I haven't had time to catch up with all the posts I've missed, so do forgive me for not mentioning anyone, just I wish you all health and happines, Judi xxx0 -
Well, I see that in my absence, everyone has learned how to get the dancers without me.....GOOD FOR Y'ALL!!!!:happy: I see a few things that I can use as well.
Also looks like everyone's loved ones are doing better, thank God for that!:happy:
It's hotter than blazes here, well....almost as hot as blazes.....:devil:
I'm going to try to get back on the wagon. I started logging my food today. Have not been on the scale, I'm scared to death. I think I'll wait till next week. Hmmmm.....I think I smell a poopie diaper on my lap:frown:
Maddie
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Thanks Marie! I don't have my pictures on a website (and there's no way I'm putting that before picture on one!), so I'll just put it on my profile. I looked for the before picture this morning and I actually can't find it. Hmmmmmm!:ohwell: 0
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Afternoon Sneakers:
I have not been MIA because this holiday weekend I was at our sailing club
getting the boat ready with Dave. Scrubbing and polishing, scrubbing the deck and the
inside. It is ready to sail now I just have to get some snacks and food on
board. The weather wasn't the greatest at times and Sunday night was a major
rain storm and the lighting would not quit.
Monday was sunny and hot and we got a chance to finish up.
Saturday we had a buyer come and look at our old boat and did make us an offer
and now we are literally waiting for the check in the mail. Fihgers crossed.
The graphics on here are amazing. I am not very good at things like that. I would like
to show you all our boat but I don't how to do it on here. I do have some pictures
on my profile if you want to see them. Dave took some more pictures yesterday so
maybe I can get them on too.
The weather here is finally improving and it is warm and sunny todayand I took my walk at lunch.
Have a great day everyone!!0 -
I thought I'd post a before and after picture :bigsmile:
BEFORE MFP
AFTER MFP
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I thought I'd post a before and after picture :bigsmile:
BEFORE MFP
AFTER MFPWoo Hoo what a difference!!!!
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