Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

LeeKetty1176

just saw this on the BBC website and thought it would be an interesting chat to have.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13397306

beccarockslife

Only if they start fining those who get too drunk, those who smoke, those who stand next to people who smoke, those whose parents smoked around them, those whose mothers drank while pregnant, those who take drugs recreationally etc etc.

Basically if you fine one "drain on society" then you fine them all or it's discrimination.

tammyquinnlmt

Well, I don't think it is fair to fine a person for being overweight or for smoking. After all we have the right to make those choices...however, refusing to follow a dr's advice is expensive to the tax payer. So perhaps instead of fining them it would be better to lower the coverage of person who refuses to comply...but then, in order to do that, they would have to provide couseling to help people stop their self destruction. Smoking cessation classes and eating disorders can be expensive.... So, I guess, my opinion is its wrong, but I see their point?! LOL

wannabskinny85

Fine those who cheat, lie, who wear makeup in a tacky fashion, who have bad breath and fuzzy hair. If they are fined then sure fine my fat butt too!

Sunshine_Girlie

You know, I've thought about this. Don't get me wrong. I've overweight and I believe that sometimes, you need a little kick in the rear to get moving. And as for people who have the coverage, why not use it? And for the incentives, I would love some. Haha.

GorillaNJ

Only if they start fining those who get too drunk, those who smoke, those who stand next to people who smoke, those whose parents smoked around them, those whose mothers drank while pregnant, those who take drugs recreationally etc etc.

Basically if you fine one "drain on society" then you fine them all or it's discrimination.

They do it is called taxes... go buy a pack of smokes here in NYC. $11 a pack (glad I do not smoke them) I told the guy in line he should just go buy some weed instead. How about that bottle of Jack Daniels... almost half of the cost comes in the way of taxes and liquor licenses. Moral of the story... government is going to get their money from you.

AngelaPowPowPOW

Only if we can fine people for saying stupid *kitten* around me. I feel it's an assault on my ears and want to take action. Also, we should start fining people who come up with stupid *kitten* ways to fine people. If they can't put their energy into making a positive environment, then they should be"fined".

LeeKetty1176

Only if they start fining those who get too drunk, those who smoke, those who stand next to people who smoke, those whose parents smoked around them, those whose mothers drank while pregnant, those who take drugs recreationally etc etc.

Basically if you fine one "drain on society" then you fine them all or it's discrimination.

now thats a dam bloody good point ! but where does that stop?? does that not feed a "blame" culture ?

LeeKetty1176

Only if we can fine people for saying stupid *kitten* around me. I feel it's an assault on my ears and want to take action. Also, we should start fining people who come up with stupid *kitten* ways to fine people. If they can't put their energy into making a positive environment, then they should be"fined".

or at the very least run over

sweetiepie31612

The fine would only be $50 a year. I don't think this is enough insentive to motivate people. Added to that, weight loss is mental. You have to want it. If you don't want to change yourself, you're not going to try just b/c someone else thinks you should.

tammyquinnlmt

Only if they start fining those who get too drunk, those who smoke, those who stand next to people who smoke, those whose parents smoked around them, those whose mothers drank while pregnant, those who take drugs recreationally etc etc.

Basically if you fine one "drain on society" then you fine them all or it's discrimination.

now thats a dam bloody good point ! but where does that stop?? does that not feed a "blame" culture ?

I don't think people should be fined for doing behaivor that is legal...I think though that the society at large shouldn't have to pay for said lifestyle

wannabskinny85

Well, I don't think it is fair to fine a person for being overweight or for smoking. After all we have the right to make those choices...however, refusing to follow a dr's advice is expensive to the tax payer. So perhaps instead of fining them it would be better to lower the coverage of person who refuses to comply...but then, in order to do that, they would have to provide couseling to help people stop their self destruction. Smoking cessation classes and eating disorders can be expensive.... So, I guess, my opinion is its wrong, but I see their point?! LOL

What about the people on certain medications who gain weight or people who find it hard to lose after having babies or ppl who suffer depression and eat a lot its not fair to reduce their coverage on insurance if we look at them and assume they don't comply

Sunshine_Girlie

Well, I don't think it is fair to fine a person for being overweight or for smoking. After all we have the right to make those choices...however, refusing to follow a dr's advice is expensive to the tax payer. So perhaps instead of fining them it would be better to lower the coverage of person who refuses to comply...but then, in order to do that, they would have to provide couseling to help people stop their self destruction. Smoking cessation classes and eating disorders can be expensive.... So, I guess, my opinion is its wrong, but I see their point?! LOL

What about the people on certain medications who gain weight or people who find it hard to lose after having babies or ppl who suffer depression and eat a lot its not fair to reduce their coverage on insurance if we look at them and assume they don't comply

Wouldn't this be noted by the doctor?

CatchThatKitten

Too many loopholes...instead of targeting the people, why don't we target the education and the production of food. If all we have are healthy choices to make, we'll make them. Drop the prices on fresh fruits and veggies, whole grains, nuts, lean meats and the like and tax the bajeebus out of things that have no nutritional value (like soda, ramen noodles, twinkies, etc). Of course, you'll always have the people who buy the junk anyway (there is no way I would live my life without macaroni and cheese, no matter how expensive it is!), but I'll bet there'll be a lot more healthy people. Like it or not, people have the RIGHT to be fat, and sometimes have no choice. But if we stop treating healthy, and organic!, food like it was a foreign thing, I think that it would really help.

Misty1777

Maybe it shouldn't be so much in fining the people who are overweight at rewarding the people to exercise, eat right and take care of themselves. I rarely go to the Dr. and am not on any kind of maintenance medications. Why should I have to pay the same insurance premiums as others who do not take care of themselves. Maybe if you reward people by offering them a discount for good behavior that might help.

Fesse

Too many loopholes...instead of targeting the people, why don't we target the education and the production of food. If all we have are healthy choices to make, we'll make them. Drop the prices on fresh fruits and veggies, whole grains, nuts, lean meats and the like and tax the bajeebus out of things that have no nutritional value (like soda, ramen noodles, twinkies, etc). Of course, you'll always have the people who buy the junk anyway (there is no way I would live my life without macaroni and cheese, no matter how expensive it is!), but I'll bet there'll be a lot more healthy people. Like it or not, people have the RIGHT to be fat, and sometimes have no choice. But if we stop treating healthy, and organic!, food like it was a foreign thing, I think that it would really help.

Excellent point made here!!!!

Sunshine_Girlie

Too many loopholes...instead of targeting the people, why don't we target the education and the production of food. If all we have are healthy choices to make, we'll make them. Drop the prices on fresh fruits and veggies, whole grains, nuts, lean meats and the like and tax the bajeebus out of things that have no nutritional value (like soda, ramen noodles, twinkies, etc). Of course, you'll always have the people who buy the junk anyway (there is no way I would live my life without macaroni and cheese, no matter how expensive it is!), but I'll bet there'll be a lot more healthy people. Like it or not, people have the RIGHT to be fat, and sometimes have no choice. But if we stop treating healthy, and organic!, food like it was a foreign thing, I think that it would really help.

The first lady has been doing that. She has been trying to get vending machines out of the public schools and to have meals from restaurants given in smaller portions. I do agree that the prices in the stores on fresh produce should be dropped, but good luck with that. Gas prices are outrageous and so much other prices. But where do we go from here? What about when we go home? We are the only ones able to control what we put in our mouth and if we get off the couch and exercise.

Heather75

Maybe it shouldn't be so much in fining the people who are overweight at rewarding the people to exercise, eat right and take care of themselves. I rarely go to the Dr. and am not on any kind of maintenance medications. Why should I have to pay the same insurance premiums as others who do not take care of themselves. Maybe if you reward people by offering them a discount for good behavior that might help.

This.

FearAnLoathing

The artical is for people in america who are getting welfare and state aid.These people get free medical,many of these people do not work because of there weight so they get money and food stamps and free health care.Paid for by me and my husband and all the others in the us that pay taxes.im paying for people to get health care yet I cant afford it for myself. I would gladly pay a 50 dollar a year fine if it ment everything else for free.
and in the artical they are talking about fining smokers also.

AngelaPowPowPOW

Well, I don't think it is fair to fine a person for being overweight or for smoking. After all we have the right to make those choices...however, refusing to follow a dr's advice is expensive to the tax payer. So perhaps instead of fining them it would be better to lower the coverage of person who refuses to comply...but then, in order to do that, they would have to provide couseling to help people stop their self destruction. Smoking cessation classes and eating disorders can be expensive.... So, I guess, my opinion is its wrong, but I see their point?! LOL

What about the people on certain medications who gain weight or people who find it hard to lose after having babies or ppl who suffer depression and eat a lot its not fair to reduce their coverage on insurance if we look at them and assume they don't comply

Wouldn't this be noted by the doctor?

So people without insurance would then have to pay a doctor to get a note for the judge to avoid a fine from the government. What would be the standards then? If I lose 30 lbs, but still have 20 to go...would I be fined until I met what the government says is my goal weight? So Big Brother could basically set down a flat weight everyone needs to be at and collect until they reach it? Then we can all wear the same clothes so we don't get clothing fines. We should also probably read the same books, because the uneducated would be fined. Also, there's that whole religion thing. There are a few people out there with different faiths that could pay in $50 til they convert. Oh...and the unemployed. If they're not working like everyone else..fine them til they're like everyone else.
The list goes on and on until we all resemble a really bad made for SyFy movie on a Tuesday night.

LeeKetty1176

the point about cheaper fresh veg and fruit is a dam good one !

its faster and CHEAPER to buy crap!

Over here and I am sure in the states, shops only sell "perfect" veg and fruit.... you go to someplace like Spain...... its all sold regardless of what it looks like, and its cheaper.

is it to EASY to over eat or eat **** ?

Jenscan

But, being a normal weight doesn't assure health. That's been brought up ad nauseum in these forums. Sure, the chances are higher that someone who is overweight MAY have more health issues. I'm in good health even though I need to lose weight (for now, I know). The only doctor visits I make are for my "annual" and I've never been on any medications whatsoever.

heathersmilez

It’s just like how auto insurance has to pay out even if you were an idiot and did something stupid like drove with a cell phone, drove too fast on wet roads or painted your toes while driving. Unfortunately, idiocy is insured 99.9% of the time. As long as you aren’t convicted of a criminal code violation we have to pay and even then there is a lot of accident benefit coverage’s insurers cannot deny and subrogation is very costly so most insurers don’t try to get their money back.

~ Happy to be an underwriter not an adjuster

FearAnLoathing

Did anyone read the artical at all? They are talking about people who get FREE health care from the state and welfare.Not people that pay for there own insurance or get it through work.
They want to fine them 50 bucks a year to help pay back some of the costs.
I think that is GREAT why should I have to pay for all of their health care when I can not even afford it for myself?

Sunshine_Girlie

Well, I don't think it is fair to fine a person for being overweight or for smoking. After all we have the right to make those choices...however, refusing to follow a dr's advice is expensive to the tax payer. So perhaps instead of fining them it would be better to lower the coverage of person who refuses to comply...but then, in order to do that, they would have to provide couseling to help people stop their self destruction. Smoking cessation classes and eating disorders can be expensive.... So, I guess, my opinion is its wrong, but I see their point?! LOL

What about the people on certain medications who gain weight or people who find it hard to lose after having babies or ppl who suffer depression and eat a lot its not fair to reduce their coverage on insurance if we look at them and assume they don't comply

Wouldn't this be noted by the doctor?

So people without insurance would then have to pay a doctor to get a note for the judge to avoid a fine from the government. What would be the standards then? If I lose 30 lbs, but still have 20 to go...would I be fined until I met what the government says is my goal weight? So Big Brother could basically set down a flat weight everyone needs to be at and collect until they reach it? Then we can all wear the same clothes so we don't get clothing fines. We should also probably read the same books, because the uneducated would be fined. Also, there's that whole religion thing. There are a few people out there with different faiths that could pay in $50 til they convert. Oh...and the unemployed. If they're not working like everyone else..fine them til they're like everyone else.
The list goes on and on until we all resemble a really bad made for SyFy movie on a Tuesday night.

The article stated that the fine would be for the people who have not established a regimen with their doctor. It doesn't say that they have to complete it to avoid a fine. If I misread it, I apologize.

AlwaysWanderer

dont cover them for obesity related illnesses. simples

Selphie8

those who stand next to people who smoke, those whose parents smoked around them, those whose mothers drank while pregnant,

There is a HUGE difference between those who suffer health problems due to their own decisions, and those who suffer because of other people.

Fesse

I worked in the hospitality industry for many years.... at a fine 5 star hotel. Where doctors would come with their families and friends to spend the weekend which was entirely paid for by the pharmaceutical companies that were pushing their products. There would minimal conference time and then a complete right off for said company and then doctors would go back to their offices and clinics and try and prescribe the product...... Kick Back, yes I think so. Take said money and re-invest in health care and I think we'd all benefit instead of charging an individual for their short comings!!!!!!!!

Spend a night in the emergency room with your sick child with other mothers and elderly alike and I think your opinion would be other wise!!

ChrisStoney

It's not fair, will it happen in the future? - probably. I think before that happens the bMI needs to be looked at as many athletes and people in top shape are over thier BMI.
While your on this line of reasoning, wouldn't it be better to make a reproduction license? That way You, or who-ever is in control could 'weed out' all the undesirable traits you mention and in 100 years have the society you dream of. They already do this in China in some form....

AngelaPowPowPOW

Did anyone read the artical at all? They are talking about people who get FREE health care from the state and welfare.Not people that pay for there own insurance or get it through work.
They want to fine them 50 bucks a year to help pay back some of the costs.
I think that is GREAT why should I have to pay for all of their health care when I can not even afford it for myself?

I'll tell you why. I'm overweight still even though I'm working hard at it and have lost 26 lbs. I'm on state aid, not because I'm lazy. I work two jobs and go to college. I'm on state aid because my husband of 15 years left me and our two children for another woman to breed with. My two jobs don't offer insurance, hence me going to school so I can get a better job to provide that for them. I don't get child support...in fact I'm owed $46,000 in it right now. This article (is how the word is spelled) would fine my *kitten* $50 for being overweight. I can't pull another $50 out of thin air if I tried. I also want to point out that I didn't get overweight from being lazy, nor am I a crack addict or some foodstamp *kitten* that makes babies to make money...nor did I get on the system to make your life more miserable. I did it so my children can get their school shots or, for when my oldest got mono..I wouldn't have to sell a kidney on the black market to take care of him.
THIS is why the article is wrong.

mikeyml

The short answer to your question is yes. However I don't think it's the best way to reach the goal they are trying to achieve. This "fat tax" will be seen as nothing more than a way for Arizona to create a new revenue stream. I would be really surprised if it actually becomes a law, but you never know with Arizona.

The truth is that the obesity issue in the U.S. is incredibly complicated. There are socioeconomic issues, education issues, food source issues, health care issues, etc. I think Arizona, or any state for that matter, would do a lot better with their obesity rates if they broke each of these issues up separately and addressed them individually. Create better paying jobs so people have money to buy the food they need. Provide a free nutrition service to people who are overweight and want to lose weight. Tax restaurants that serve grossly unhealthy food (like alcohol and tobacco taxes). Give an incentive to doctors who spend time with their patients discussing weight loss and give tax breaks to free clinics that provide weight loss counseling. This is basic stuff here that could be done to improve our conditions.

In the mean time, people will work 2 part-time jobs, buy 99 cent cheese burgers from McDonalds, have no idea the effect high calorie, fat, carb, sodium food will have on their body, and be denied health coverage for pre-existing conditions.