Paleo questions.

bcattoes

I've heard a lot on here about the Paleo diet and while I'd heard of it didn't really know much about it. So, I've been Googling, and I must say I don't get it. We can't eat like cavemen. I mean the same meat and vegetable sources eaten then simply aren't available. So, it sounds pretty much like the Atkins diet recyceled. What are the differences?

DrBorkBork

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

immacookie

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

What Bork said! It's mainly about eating REAL food from REAL sources.... no lean cuisines or canned soups or hamburger helpers or 100 snack packs.

gjohns13

I'd say the biggest difference is Atkins is basically low carb, while Paleo/Primal Blueprint is more anti-processed foods. I think a lot of people assume Paleo means low carb, but when I track my macro nutrients I ended up actually eating more carbs on a Primal style diet (almost all carbs were from vegetables and a little fruit). This accelerated weight loss (for me at least) and I feel a lot better (because I eat some many vegetables I assume). I would suggest visiting http://www.marksdailyapple.com/ for anyone interested in this kind of diet/lifestyle. Mark is really good at answering questions, and his Primal Blueprint is a lot easier to adapt to than a strictly Paleo diet.

I'd say the biggest problem people have with eating healthier is not eating enough vegetables, but this kind of forces you to. I'll now easily eat two or three servings of vegetables per meal now.

I never had a lot of weight to lose and now I'm trying to put on muscle. I started a Primal Blueprint diet a few months ago really skeptical (but I was going to just try things for three months see what works and record my results daily). I had no problems losing weight, no problem switching to maintaining weight, and am easily building muscle. All this happened faster and easier than I expected. I've been able to stop logging everything I eat and still lose weight (which I think should be the ultimate goal: effortless healthy maintaining of weight).

This has worked great for me, but it might not be for everyone. I'd say if you are interested in it than try it for a month or two. If you like the results keep going, if not switch to something else. Ultimately the best diet is one you can stick too.

freerange

Sound bite answer, Atkins is more concerned about quantity of carbs Primal is more concerned about quality of carbs.

bcattoes

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

What Bork said! It's mainly about eating REAL food from REAL sources.... no lean cuisines or canned soups or hamburger helpers or 100 snack packs.

But why no grains? Grains are whole and natural. Is there some evidence that paleolithic man didn't eat grains? That seems hard to believe when they are so plentiful. I haven't done any research but it seems to me if I had grains growing all around me and my choice was to eat them or go chase down the wild animal with big teeth, I'd go for the grains. But maybe that's just me.

bcattoes

This has worked great for me, but it might not be for everyone. I'd say if you are interested in it than try it for a month or two. If you like the results keep going, if not switch to something else. Ultimately the best diet is one you can stick too.

I'm actaully not interested in trying it, I was just curious about it. I am not a big meat eater. I am however a very big fan of whole and natural. I did the macrobiotic diet for about a year several years ago, but it was too strict for me to do forever. I have tried to keep to a lot of their principals (one of them being whole foods) ever since though.

DrBorkBork

Grains tend to cause an inflammatory response in most people. But you may be so addicted that you don't notice. Kind of like when a diabetic who has not taken care of themselves and accepts that being lethargic all the time is standard, whereas within a short period of therapy (ie: insulin), they're suddenly full of energy and never realized they could feel that way. (At least that's how it felt for me)

MissKim

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

What Bork said! It's mainly about eating REAL food from REAL sources.... no lean cuisines or canned soups or hamburger helpers or 100 snack packs.

But why no grains? Grains are whole and natural. Is there some evidence that paleolithic man didn't eat grains? That seems hard to believe when they are so plentiful. I haven't done any research but it seems to me if I had grains growing all around me and my choice was to eat them or go chase down the wild animal with big teeth, I'd go for the grains. But maybe that's just me.

http://whole9life.com/2010/03/the-grain-manifesto/

MissKim

http://wellnut.com/2010/09/primal-grains-unhealthy/

another good explanation

DrBorkBork

Also one should take into consideration that only a few generations ago, grains came into our homes in their basest forms. You went out, harvested it yourself, ground it up, and made flour. These days they're nothing but processes & chemicals.

gjohns13

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

What Bork said! It's mainly about eating REAL food from REAL sources.... no lean cuisines or canned soups or hamburger helpers or 100 snack packs.

But why no grains? Grains are whole and natural. Is there some evidence that paleolithic man didn't eat grains? That seems hard to believe when they are so plentiful. I haven't done any research but it seems to me if I had grains growing all around me and my choice was to eat them or go chase down the wild animal with big teeth, I'd go for the grains. But maybe that's just me.

Grains are also typically highly processed (or at least the ones that most people eat are). Even things that are "whole grains" are usually processed more than plain old meat and veggies. To make bread you have to separate the grain, grind the grain, mix the grain with other stuff, and heat the grain for a while to make it edible. Most grains you don't just eat raw or slightly cooked (corn maybe but even that sounds gross). Veggies are easily eaten raw and better tasting (in my opinion) slightly cooked and meats I typically just get to a safe to eat temperature.

So on top of what everyone before has said, grains are still highly processed. Yeah there might have been a lot of easy to pick grains around for early man, but the effort and technology needed to actually eat it was still more than I'd put into it. I'm just throwing out an idea and don't know for sure. I just realized grain foods aren't really tasty, are boring, and made me not feel as good as if I didn't eat them. So I limit how much I eat (which is really easy and I only say limit because occasionally I don't plan well and must eat them; however never really by choice).

hpsnickers1

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

What Bork said! It's mainly about eating REAL food from REAL sources.... no lean cuisines or canned soups or hamburger helpers or 100 snack packs.

But why no grains? Grains are whole and natural. Is there some evidence that paleolithic man didn't eat grains? That seems hard to believe when they are so plentiful. I haven't done any research but it seems to me if I had grains growing all around me and my choice was to eat them or go chase down the wild animal with big teeth, I'd go for the grains. But maybe that's just me.

Grains are also typically highly processed (or at least the ones that most people eat are). Even things that are "whole grains" are usually processed more than plain old meat and veggies. To make bread you have to separate the grain, grind the grain, mix the grain with other stuff, and heat the grain for a while to make it edible. Most grains you don't just eat raw or slightly cooked (corn maybe but even that sounds gross). Veggies are easily eaten raw and better tasting (in my opinion) slightly cooked and meats I typically just get to a safe to eat temperature.

So on top of what everyone before has said, grains are still highly processed. Yeah there might have been a lot of easy to pick grains around for early man, but the effort and technology needed to actually eat it was still more than I'd put into it. I'm just throwing out an idea and don't know for sure. I just realized grain foods aren't really tasty, are boring, and made me not feel as good as if I didn't eat them. So I limit how much I eat (which is really easy and I only say limit because occasionally I don't plan well and must eat them; however never really by choice).

Grains cannot be consumed unless they are processed - so no 'cavemen' didn't eat them. They are toxic in raw from (and even in processed form). So are legumes. They are full of antinutrients which keep your gut from absorbing good nutrients. The "insoluble" fiber you get from them scrape the lining of your gut, causing mucus and leaks (leaky gut syndrome).That caveman was definitely going after that animal. And since humans started ingesting grains, our brains and bodies have gotten smaller. And if that 'caveman' had an uneventful life he could live well into his 90's. In that time a broken bone or a cut on the finger could kill you.

I decided to try it 3 weeks ago. I'm 5'2" and I was at 120lbs - supposed to be very hard to lose at a healthy weight. I have since dropped 4 more lbs. My metabolism hasn't slowed down (BodyMedia Fit armband) and that tells me my lean muscle mass is okay. It's body fat that is dropping. My IBS is clearing up. My TOM has dropped a couple of days. My energy levels are through the roof.

The biggest issue with grains is humans are replacing more nutrient dense foods (fruits and vegetables) with not so nutrient dense grains.

heniko

Lots of things make a lot of sense in isolation but *I* think we sometimes need to sit back and look around us and make our own decision about what's best rather than replying soley on *experts*. We have become so disempowered by our beliefs that we have no knowledge or ability to know what's right for us without someone *more qualified* telling us.

The New York Times and The Washington Post ran feature stories on modern-day caveman food within a week of each other early this month, so you know it’s only a matter of time before Grok meets Oprah. (For now, the queen of the talk shows seems to have fallen under the spell of Kathy Freston, who advocates a 21-day “cleansing” vegan diet.) (A note : read why you should stay away from vegan diets!)

A Primal lifestyle advocates a holistic lifestyle encompassing a eat clean natural foods, fat-loving ancestral diet, stress reduction, low-intensity exercise spiked with sprints and brief, intensive weight lifting, mimicking the demands of our ancestral survival placed on the body and mind.

I have health problems so a diet specific to, say, PCOS have to sit high on my radar anyway. On the other hand, I wanted to shed some excess pounds. My huge eating issue was sugar, I hde cravings, ups and downs, etc. So cutting out sugar was important to me. My love of sugar means I also love grains - I'd have meals that were mostly pasta or bread and then wonder why I would be hungry later on and craving sugars. So I decided to cut out grains.

With respect to dairy, I've never had any trouble with it (just dh) and we have access to raw milk from which I make yogurt and butter, so I did not want to give that up. Finally, I knew any attempts at weighing food, obessing over counting calories, or otherwise getting obsessive about eating or exercising would not work with me. BTDT and gave it up as too much work (and frankly, too much thinking about food). I exercise regularly just with my lifestyle and was not interested in trying to exercise just for the sake of exercising.

With all these on my list of goals the PB diets were closest to what I was looking for, so that's what I focussed on. Others may come to a different conclusion. And I think that's Okay. I don't want to get all religious about diet and I'm sure that what works for some may not work for all.

To me the equation for health is easy just eat as much unprocessed plants and fruits as you want, add some legumes and wholegrains and you will be slim, healthy and beautiful. No rocket science needed

bcattoes

Grains tend to cause an inflammatory response in most people. But you may be so addicted that you don't notice. Kind of like when a diabetic who has not taken care of themselves and accepts that being lethargic all the time is standard, whereas within a short period of therapy (ie: insulin), they're suddenly full of energy and never realized they could feel that way. (At least that's how it felt for me)

Huh?? I actually have a very healthy gut, but me aside, what evidence, and I mean medical evidence, is there of that?

Grokette

Sound bite answer, Atkins is more concerned about quantity of carbs Primal is more concerned about quality of carbs.

Actually, Atkins is concerned with both. It says in the book that foods SHOULD be organic and free range if you can afford it. Any packaged or processed low carb foods should be eaten as sparingly as possible.

Atkins is a type of elimination plan based on the glycemic index and foods are added back in, in a particular order so you can easily see how your body reacts to each food as you add them back in.

That is what led me to researching plans for celiac and such and landed me with the Paleo / Primal way of life.

heniko

Grains tend to cause an inflammatory response in most people. But you may be so addicted that you don't notice. Kind of like when a diabetic who has not taken care of themselves and accepts that being lethargic all the time is standard, whereas within a short period of therapy (ie: insulin), they're suddenly full of energy and never realized they could feel that way. (At least that's how it felt for me)

Huh?? I actually have a very healthy gut, but me aside, what evidence, and I mean medical evidence, is there of that?

The evidence is that there is a link between grains and leptin resistance. Leptin resistance comes before insulin resistance and is a key predictor of obesity, diabetes, and metabolic syndrome.

Read - evidence for you

http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/truth-about-eating-grains.aspx
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/04/leptin-and-lectins.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/04/leptin-and-lectins-part-ii.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/04/leptin-and-lectins-part-iii.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18508097?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

If so skeptical - take the grain free test on yourself! eliminate all grains for two weeks. You may eat quinoa, which is not actually a grain, but many people consider it so. And the outcome is pretty simple – you are gluten intolerant if you notice your energy, mood and general well-being improve at all during this time. Remember – intolerance does not mean allergy and does not indicate celiac disease. It just means your body does not tolerate that food well.

After two weeks, add back in one type of grain, but just at one meal. If within a day you notice adverse reactions such as stomach cramping and digestive upset, or any dip in energy and moods, you are gluten intolerant. If you are okay, on the next day add in another grain, again just a small amount.

No adverse reactions after adding back in the first grain does not necessarily indicate no intolerance – some people react more subtly than others. This is why it’s worth gradually re-introducing each grain and taking the time to see how you react. Any negative reactions indicate an intolerance, although it may not be full-blown.

You have nothing to lose by trying it out

pyro13g

I'm want to know why people think flour from whole grain is whole grain.

heniko

Cos it says it on the bag --- duh Bobby! :laugh:

DrBorkBork

Yeah, Bobby, DO YOUR RESEARCH, MAN!

pyro13g

Yeah, Bobby, DO YOUR RESEARCH, MAN!

Don't need to. My government will tell me what's good for me.

bcattoes

I haven't had time to read all the articles in the links sent, and wish they were from more varied sources. But most of what I read was interesting but talked more about treatment of obesity and insulin resistance or metabolic disease rather than preventing something already healthy people. But I love my whole grains and I know that they are good for me and most healthy adults. There is plenty of medical evidence to prove this. And I don't buy into conspiracy theories that thousands of doctors and researchers for hundreds of years have all been falsifying research. That to me just seems silly. But, I've been eating a diet high in whole grains (and no I don't mean flour or bread) for several years and I feel good and my health checkups are good so I don't feel the need to change anything in my diet, except stick to it. (I'm not a slave to it, I do enjoy pizza every now and then). The only time my blood work gets out of whack is when I don't exercise. My personal philosophy is that exercise is the biggest key to good health.

Thanks for the info. I do plan to read all the articles as I have time.

Grokette

I haven't had time to read all the articles in the links sent, and wish they were from more varied sources. But most of what I read was interesting but talked more about treatment of obesity and insulin resistance or metabolic disease rather than preventing something already healthy people. But I love my whole grains and I know that they are good for me and most healthy adults. There is plenty of medical evidence to prove this. And I don't buy into conspiracy theories that thousands of doctors and researchers for hundreds of years have all been falsifying research. That to me just seems silly. But, I've been eating a diet high in whole grains (and no I don't mean flour or bread) for several years and I feel good and my health checkups are good so I don't feel the need to change anything in my diet, except stick to it. (I'm not a slave to it, I do enjoy pizza every now and then). The only time my blood work gets out of whack is when I don't exercise. My personal philosophy is that exercise is the biggest key to good health.

Thanks for the info. I do plan to read all the articles as I have time.

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

Grokette

Time to unhook this troll guys. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't Jknops under a assumed user name.

I believe so and I don't know why I even wasted my time responding. I would rather responde to those that really want the help and support.

Cletc

Bump

bcattoes

[/quote]

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.
[/quote]

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

bcattoes

Time to unhook this troll guys. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't Jknops under a assumed user name.

It was just a question. If you don't want to answer then don't. I'm not asking anyone to switch their diet or lifestyle. Eat what you want. Geez!

Grokette

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

I’d like to go ahead and point something out here. There is no such thing as a “whole” grain in the human diet. Every grain we touch, from oatmeal and brown rice, to pretzels and white bread, has undergone some level of processing. There is nothing “whole” about any of the grains we eat. It’s a matter of degree of processing. Which makes it all the more laughable when I hear people talk about “whole grain bread” or “whole grain cereal”. Cereals are some of the most highly processed foods on the shelf. Just look at those crispy flakes. Does that even resemble anything you’ve seen in nature?

The bottom line is that Cochrane has it right; the evidence is too weak to truly prove anything. All we’ve seen are studies comparing whole grains to refined grains, which is a false dichotomy. There exist diets that contain no grains. But wait, we’ve seen one such study comparing the Paleo Diet to the Mediterranean Diet, that ol’ “heart-healthy” darling of the media. Anyone recall that the grain-free Paleo Diet topped the “whole grain-rich” Mediterranean Diet?

Barneystinson

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

A lot of the increased inflammatory response is directed at modern wheat strains, which have changed drastically with the introduction of GMO crops and increased wheat breeding.

Interesting PubMed study on the increased prevalance of Celiac disease in relation to the changes in wheat breeding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20664999

On the Alt-med side of things, a wheat-free diet is recommended for those with severe joint pain, GERD, and/or IBD because of its strong association with inflammatory autoimmune response in many individuals.

bcattoes

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

A lot of the increased inflammatory response is directed at modern wheat strains, which have changed drastically with the introduction of GMO crops and increased wheat breeding.

Interesting PubMed study on the increased prevalance of Celiac disease in relation to the changes in wheat breeding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20664999

On the Alt-med side of things, a wheat-free diet is recommended for those with severe joint pain, GERD, and/or IBD because of its strong association with inflammatory autoimmune response in many individuals.

Now that I agree with. Wheat, gluten specifically, is a problem for far more people than realize it. That said, I do not believe that it is a problem for everyone.

bcattoes

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.
[/quote]

I’d like to go ahead and point something out here. There is no such thing as a “whole” grain in the human diet. Every grain we touch, from oatmeal and brown rice, to pretzels and white bread, has undergone some level of processing. There is nothing “whole” about any of the grains we eat. It’s a matter of degree of processing. Which makes it all the more laughable when I hear people talk about “whole grain bread” or “whole grain cereal”. Cereals are some of the most highly processed foods on the shelf. Just look at those crispy flakes. Does that even resemble anything you’ve seen in nature?

The bottom line is that Cochrane has it right; the evidence is too weak to truly prove anything. All we’ve seen are studies comparing whole grains to refined grains, which is a false dichotomy. There exist diets that contain no grains. But wait, we’ve seen one such study comparing the Paleo Diet to the Mediterranean Diet, that ol’ “heart-healthy” darling of the media. Anyone recall that the grain-free Paleo Diet topped the “whole grain-rich” Mediterranean Diet?
[/quote]

Do you have a link to the study?