Paleo questions.

Grokette

(psssssst, hpsnickers. Don't tell anyone but I like MDA a whole bunch. I probably agree with 95% of the stuff written by Mark Sisson. it's just a shame that his message gets distorted out of all proportion. Maybe its the fault of people like me. Or maybe it's the fault of some people who claim to follow his guidelines but do such a half assed job of portraying them on forums such as these...

Personally, I don't care as I am going on holiday Good luck lady. I'm glad it works for you.)

Now where was I? Paleo. Boooooooo.

Ha ha........you can't ride the fence buddy!!! LOL

Anyway, I will send you the requested information about leaky gut syndrome when I get home this evening. I am on my work computer right now.

freerange

What drinks are allowed on the Paleo diet? Just water? Where do you get any type of drink these days that hasn't been processed? Bottled or tap, it's still processed. Even if you drink from a stream, well the soil and air are not exactly contaminate free (unfortunately).

I know I shouldn’t do this, but here it goes. ALLOWED? Or do you mean recommended? We are all adults here I don’t need anyone telling me what is “ALLOWED” I can make the decision for myself. BUT, for the most part all I drink is water, out of the tap (thru a filter), I will drink some tea (unsweetened) and once in awhile some milk (maybe one glass a month if that). A beer with friends (make mine dark and rich) but I’ve never been much of a beer drinker (well haven’t since I got married), so I drink less beer that I do milk.

Barneystinson

What drinks are allowed on the Paleo diet? Just water? Where do you get any type of drink these days that hasn't been processed? Bottled or tap, it's still processed. Even if you drink from a stream, well the soil and air are not exactly contaminate free (unfortunately).

I know I shouldn’t do this, but here it goes. ALLOWED? Or do you mean recommended? We are all adults here I don’t need anyone telling me what is “ALLOWED” I can make the decision for myself. BUT, for the most part all I drink is water, out of the tap (thru a filter), I will drink some tea (unsweetened) and once in awhile some milk (maybe one glass a month if that). A beer with friends (make mine dark and rich) but I’ve never been much of a beer drinker (well haven’t since I got married), so I drink less beer that I do milk.

Sometimes I live dangerously and drink city water. :bigsmile:

BodyByBrusselSprouts

I drink water and La croix. If I really miss soda (which I do occasionally) I will add a little lemon juice or lime juice to my la croix. I also drink some coffee

Dave

georgiagorwell

Eating whole, clean, unprocessed foods. Lots of meat, veggies, and some fruit. No soy, dairy, grains, or legumes. Its younger sibling, Primal Blueprint, encourages high natural fat consumption in addition the above, and dairy is allowed.

What Bork said! It's mainly about eating REAL food from REAL sources.... no lean cuisines or canned soups or hamburger helpers or 100 snack packs.

But why no grains? Grains are whole and natural. Is there some evidence that paleolithic man didn't eat grains? That seems hard to believe when they are so plentiful. I haven't done any research but it seems to me if I had grains growing all around me and my choice was to eat them or go chase down the wild animal with big teeth, I'd go for the grains. But maybe that's just me.

So the prehistoric version of yourself would chew on long grassy stalks and have to eat about 300 hunded to fill up than get in on a piece of buffalo? Primal people didn't turn grains into tasty sliced bread or cereals...!

pyro13g

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand, etc..

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

bcattoes

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing the as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand.

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

bcattoes

What drinks are allowed on the Paleo diet? Just water? Where do you get any type of drink these days that hasn't been processed? Bottled or tap, it's still processed. Even if you drink from a stream, well the soil and air are not exactly contaminate free (unfortunately).

I know I shouldn’t do this, but here it goes. ALLOWED? Or do you mean recommended? We are all adults here I don’t need anyone telling me what is “ALLOWED” I can make the decision for myself. BUT, for the most part all I drink is water, out of the tap (thru a filter), I will drink some tea (unsweetened) and once in awhile some milk (maybe one glass a month if that). A beer with friends (make mine dark and rich) but I’ve never been much of a beer drinker (well haven’t since I got married), so I drink less beer that I do milk.

*sigh* The question wasn't what are you personally allowed to drink. It's what does the diet allow, but perhaps allow was the wrong choice of words. So, so very sorry!

Barneystinson

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing the as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand.

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

Overall wheat exposure is far less in Asian countries.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/04/why-do-the-japanese-have-less-heart-disease.html

Grokette

What drinks are allowed on the Paleo diet? Just water? Where do you get any type of drink these days that hasn't been processed? Bottled or tap, it's still processed. Even if you drink from a stream, well the soil and air are not exactly contaminate free (unfortunately).

I know I shouldn’t do this, but here it goes. ALLOWED? Or do you mean recommended? We are all adults here I don’t need anyone telling me what is “ALLOWED” I can make the decision for myself. BUT, for the most part all I drink is water, out of the tap (thru a filter), I will drink some tea (unsweetened) and once in awhile some milk (maybe one glass a month if that). A beer with friends (make mine dark and rich) but I’ve never been much of a beer drinker (well haven’t since I got married), so I drink less beer that I do milk.

*sigh* The question wasn't what are you personally allowed to drink. It's what does the diet allow, but perhaps allow was the wrong choice of words. So, so very sorry!

Technically if you are strict Paleo then water, maybe some fruit juice on occasion and teas...........no coffee with strict Paleo because coffee is grown from beans.....

Primal, most people have water, tea, coffee, juices and maybe some raw milk...........

bcattoes

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing the as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand.

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

Overall wheat exposure is far less in Asian countries.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/04/why-do-the-japanese-have-less-heart-disease.html

But they do generally eat a diet very high in grains, namely rice. And, as the article in your link points out, a diet very low in meat other than fish.

Grokette

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing the as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand.

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

Overall wheat exposure is far less in Asian countries.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/04/why-do-the-japanese-have-less-heart-disease.html

But they do generally eat a diet very high in grains, namely rice. And, as the article in your link points out, a diet very low in meat other than fish.

Actually the Japanese don't eat as much rice as everyone thinks..............I have a Japanese friend and another friend who is married to a Japanese and they all eat mostly fish and vegetables......

bcattoes

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing the as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand.

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

Overall wheat exposure is far less in Asian countries.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/04/why-do-the-japanese-have-less-heart-disease.html

But they do generally eat a diet very high in grains, namely rice. And, as the article in your link points out, a diet very low in meat other than fish.

Actually the Japanese don't eat as much rice as everyone thinks..............I have a Japanese friend and another friend who is married to a Japanese and they all eat mostly fish and vegetables......

Well that's three, not much of a statistic.

http://japanesefood.about.com/od/rice/p/aboutjarice.htm
"Although rice consumption in Japanese households is declining, rice is still popular and is a very important food in Japan. Japanese people even call each meal "gohan (cooked rice)", such as "asa (morning) -gohan" for breakfast. A bowl of rice is included in most of Japanese meals. Rice is cultivated all over in Japan."

Barneystinson

Other cultures are experience the same plight with grains. As China has gotten wealthier, and it's people have more wealth at their disposal, they are gaining weight and experiencing drastically rising heart disease and other metabolic problems. Poorer people don't have the money to gorge on those grains so they aren't seeing the as big of a spike. Same in Japan, Thailand.

I drink organic coconut milk beverage/milk/cream. Organic almond milk. Well water that has impeccable test results with apple cider vinegar(and others) splash of fruit in it, coffee, teas, sometimes heavy cream, broth, pickle juice, occasional OJ. Beer, WIne, Whiskey.

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

Overall wheat exposure is far less in Asian countries.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/04/why-do-the-japanese-have-less-heart-disease.html

But they do generally eat a diet very high in grains, namely rice. And, as the article in your link points out, a diet very low in meat other than fish.

They also have a much higher incidence of smoking

I wouldn't point "grains" in general as a culprit. What I'm getting at here is that wheat consumption tends to be more highly correlated with inflammatory response in the body.

I still have rice here and there in moderation. An interesting facet in the Asian diet that's often misinterpreted by Westerners is their inclusion of whole fats. The Japanese diet is obviously beneficial from the large portion of Omega 3 fatty acids from fresh fish, but also look at Indonesian / Pacific diets that are very rich in animal and coconut fats.

On the converse, look at the Indian diet which tends to be far higher in carbohydrate intake (more legumes) than Chinese / Japanese / Pacific diets and notice they have a higher rate of heart disease and obesity.

silentpost

So, you believe that as the Asian cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat? I would think it is the other way around. I guess the thing that I just don't really understand, other than the open hostility of some posters, is the concept that processes proteins are okay, but whole grains are not because they are processed. To say I believe grains are not good for you' seems to me to fly in the face of decades of medical data, but that's okay. Medical data changes constantly and is often conflicting. But to harp on grains being "processed" seems such a double standard.

Not sure why the previous poster said as cultures get wealthier they eat more grains and less meat -- it is definitely the other way around. In fact, part of the reason grains are so prevalent today is because they are cheap to make and easy to transport long distances without worry of spoilage. People should watch out for processed proteins as well, as they will have additives in them (I believe a paleo lifestyle advocates trying to stay away from them as well).

I think the science behind a diet is just as, if not more, important than the basic concepts. Sure, at its simplest: "Paleo is how cavemen ate; I eat like caveman (and talk!); I get fit like caveman" is correct, but why?

I follow a general ketogenic diet (extremely limited carbs, 20-30g per day max) and try to follow general primal principles. My thinking is more of a physiological one, and that is: at a carb's base, it is simply a chain of simple sugars. I know that sugar triggers a release of insulin, causing uptake of said sugar into liver and muscle cells for storage. I know that in some people (myself obviously included in my line of reasoning), constant insulin secretion and sugar intake can lead to an insulin resistance, causing more insulin needing to be released to allow for similar amounts of glycogen uptake.

Taking grains and wheat out of the equation, you are left with carbs coming from fruits and vegetables. Fruits can cause the similar response to blood sugar (I limit these as well). Vegetables, for a large part, are mostly comprised of fiber; technically a carb, but not one that is digested.

froglegjack

Hi
I have been following these threads and am interested in paleo/primal way of living. I have done Atkins before and had great success and of course did not sustain it because I am here learning.
I have found that bread is something I can live without. I am just getting my toes wet and learning so no judgment please.:blushing: I also have lived paleo/primal almost without trying and the big objection I had with Atkins was being restricted from fruit so much. However to be fair I kept myself in induction for a long time, two months, and lost 40 lbs easily during that time.
I will not join in any arguments here about the lifestyle etc. I am just trying to see if it is sustainable.

Grokette

This is what Mary Enig, PhD, and Sally Fallon have to say about the japanese diet:

“In Okinawa, where the average life span for women is 84 years-longer than in Japan-the inhabitants eat generous amounts of pork and seafood and do all their cooking in lard.22 None of these studies is mentioned by those urging restriction of saturated fats.

The relative good health of the Japanese, who have the longest life span of any nation in the world, is generally attributed to a lowfat diet. Although the Japanese eat few dairy fats, the notion that their diet is low in fat is a myth; rather, it contains moderate amounts of animal fats from eggs, pork, chicken, beef, seafood and organ meats. With their fondness for shellfish and fish broth, eaten on a daily basis, the Japanese probably consume more cholesterol than most Americans.

What they do not consume is a lot of vegetable oil, white flour or processed food (although they do eat white rice.) The life span of the Japanese has increased since World War II with an increase in animal fat and protein in the diet.23 Those who point to Japanese statistics to promote the lowfat diet fail to mention that the Swiss live almost as long on one of the fattiest diets in the world. Tied for third in the longevity stakes are Austria and Greece-both with high-fat diets.24″

Grokette

Hi
I have been following these threads and am interested in paleo/primal way of living. I have done Atkins before and had great success and of course did not sustain it because I am here learning.
I have found that bread is something I can live without. I am just getting my toes wet and learning so no judgment please.:blushing: I also have lived paleo/primal almost without trying and the big objection I had with Atkins was being restricted from fruit so much. However to be fair I kept myself in induction for a long time, two months, and lost 40 lbs easily during that time.
I will not join in any arguments here about the lifestyle etc. I am just trying to see if it is sustainable.

That is many people's down fall.........staying too long in induction phase without starting to move up and add in more veggies and the fruits.

We all learn from our mistakes!!!

This lifestyle is very sustainable.

bcattoes

Hi
I have been following these threads and am interested in paleo/primal way of living. I have done Atkins before and had great success and of course did not sustain it because I am here learning.
I have found that bread is something I can live without. I am just getting my toes wet and learning so no judgment please.:blushing: I also have lived paleo/primal almost without trying and the big objection I had with Atkins was being restricted from fruit so much. However to be fair I kept myself in induction for a long time, two months, and lost 40 lbs easily during that time.
I will not join in any arguments here about the lifestyle etc. I am just trying to see if it is sustainable.

Like most diets whether it's sustainable is going to depend on the person. There are many diets that will help you lose weight healthily, and the Paleo diet is probably one of them. But whether or not you personally can stick to it and make it work for you can only be answered by you.

hpsnickers1

What drinks are allowed on the Paleo diet? Just water? Where do you get any type of drink these days that hasn't been processed? Bottled or tap, it's still processed. Even if you drink from a stream, well the soil and air are not exactly contaminate free (unfortunately).

I know I shouldn’t do this, but here it goes. ALLOWED? Or do you mean recommended? We are all adults here I don’t need anyone telling me what is “ALLOWED” I can make the decision for myself. BUT, for the most part all I drink is water, out of the tap (thru a filter), I will drink some tea (unsweetened) and once in awhile some milk (maybe one glass a month if that). A beer with friends (make mine dark and rich) but I’ve never been much of a beer drinker (well haven’t since I got married), so I drink less beer that I do milk.

*sigh* The question wasn't what are you personally allowed to drink. It's what does the diet allow, but perhaps allow was the wrong choice of words. So, so very sorry!

I catch myself often starting to type "allowed" myself. It seems to be automatic when the word "diet" is used. Actually, I have the same issue with the word "diet".