Paleo questions.

bcattoes

I haven't had time to read all the articles in the links sent, and wish they were from more varied sources. But most of what I read was interesting but talked more about treatment of obesity and insulin resistance or metabolic disease rather than preventing something already healthy people. But I love my whole grains and I know that they are good for me and most healthy adults. There is plenty of medical evidence to prove this. And I don't buy into conspiracy theories that thousands of doctors and researchers for hundreds of years have all been falsifying research. That to me just seems silly. But, I've been eating a diet high in whole grains (and no I don't mean flour or bread) for several years and I feel good and my health checkups are good so I don't feel the need to change anything in my diet, except stick to it. (I'm not a slave to it, I do enjoy pizza every now and then). The only time my blood work gets out of whack is when I don't exercise. My personal philosophy is that exercise is the biggest key to good health.

Thanks for the info. I do plan to read all the articles as I have time.

Grokette

I haven't had time to read all the articles in the links sent, and wish they were from more varied sources. But most of what I read was interesting but talked more about treatment of obesity and insulin resistance or metabolic disease rather than preventing something already healthy people. But I love my whole grains and I know that they are good for me and most healthy adults. There is plenty of medical evidence to prove this. And I don't buy into conspiracy theories that thousands of doctors and researchers for hundreds of years have all been falsifying research. That to me just seems silly. But, I've been eating a diet high in whole grains (and no I don't mean flour or bread) for several years and I feel good and my health checkups are good so I don't feel the need to change anything in my diet, except stick to it. (I'm not a slave to it, I do enjoy pizza every now and then). The only time my blood work gets out of whack is when I don't exercise. My personal philosophy is that exercise is the biggest key to good health.

Thanks for the info. I do plan to read all the articles as I have time.

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

Grokette

Time to unhook this troll guys. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't Jknops under a assumed user name.

I believe so and I don't know why I even wasted my time responding. I would rather responde to those that really want the help and support.

Cletc

Bump

bcattoes

[/quote]

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.
[/quote]

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

bcattoes

Time to unhook this troll guys. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't Jknops under a assumed user name.

It was just a question. If you don't want to answer then don't. I'm not asking anyone to switch their diet or lifestyle. Eat what you want. Geez!

Grokette

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

I’d like to go ahead and point something out here. There is no such thing as a “whole” grain in the human diet. Every grain we touch, from oatmeal and brown rice, to pretzels and white bread, has undergone some level of processing. There is nothing “whole” about any of the grains we eat. It’s a matter of degree of processing. Which makes it all the more laughable when I hear people talk about “whole grain bread” or “whole grain cereal”. Cereals are some of the most highly processed foods on the shelf. Just look at those crispy flakes. Does that even resemble anything you’ve seen in nature?

The bottom line is that Cochrane has it right; the evidence is too weak to truly prove anything. All we’ve seen are studies comparing whole grains to refined grains, which is a false dichotomy. There exist diets that contain no grains. But wait, we’ve seen one such study comparing the Paleo Diet to the Mediterranean Diet, that ol’ “heart-healthy” darling of the media. Anyone recall that the grain-free Paleo Diet topped the “whole grain-rich” Mediterranean Diet?

Barneystinson

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

A lot of the increased inflammatory response is directed at modern wheat strains, which have changed drastically with the introduction of GMO crops and increased wheat breeding.

Interesting PubMed study on the increased prevalance of Celiac disease in relation to the changes in wheat breeding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20664999

On the Alt-med side of things, a wheat-free diet is recommended for those with severe joint pain, GERD, and/or IBD because of its strong association with inflammatory autoimmune response in many individuals.

bcattoes

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.

A lot of the increased inflammatory response is directed at modern wheat strains, which have changed drastically with the introduction of GMO crops and increased wheat breeding.

Interesting PubMed study on the increased prevalance of Celiac disease in relation to the changes in wheat breeding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20664999

On the Alt-med side of things, a wheat-free diet is recommended for those with severe joint pain, GERD, and/or IBD because of its strong association with inflammatory autoimmune response in many individuals.

Now that I agree with. Wheat, gluten specifically, is a problem for far more people than realize it. That said, I do not believe that it is a problem for everyone.

bcattoes

The only way your eating whole grains is if your going into the field and eating them raw, which it is not possible to do so. They are still processed and chopped up, so no, NOT whole grain.

Sorry. What they tell you is whole grain is truly not. Research leaky gut syndrome...............

Grains have an inflammatory response that contribute to everything from Diabetes, to arthritis and even heart disease. Don't be fooled by what the "so-called" experts tell you.

I guess that depends on what definition you give whole grains. The most common definition is with the bran intact, and yes that can be put in a grinder and ground up into flour and still be a whole grain. If you choose another definition, such as it has to include the whole plant, well...okay. But under that theory it seems that you couldn't eat and orange or banana unless you at the peel or rind and seeds because then it's not whole. It also seems that you'd have to eat the "whole" animal because if you gut and skin it, well wouldn't that be "processed"? If you eat an egg, do you eat the shell? I was just curious and not trying to start an argument, but let's be sensible.
[/quote]

I’d like to go ahead and point something out here. There is no such thing as a “whole” grain in the human diet. Every grain we touch, from oatmeal and brown rice, to pretzels and white bread, has undergone some level of processing. There is nothing “whole” about any of the grains we eat. It’s a matter of degree of processing. Which makes it all the more laughable when I hear people talk about “whole grain bread” or “whole grain cereal”. Cereals are some of the most highly processed foods on the shelf. Just look at those crispy flakes. Does that even resemble anything you’ve seen in nature?

The bottom line is that Cochrane has it right; the evidence is too weak to truly prove anything. All we’ve seen are studies comparing whole grains to refined grains, which is a false dichotomy. There exist diets that contain no grains. But wait, we’ve seen one such study comparing the Paleo Diet to the Mediterranean Diet, that ol’ “heart-healthy” darling of the media. Anyone recall that the grain-free Paleo Diet topped the “whole grain-rich” Mediterranean Diet?
[/quote]

Do you have a link to the study?

MissKim

I'm providing no argument, no research, no reply to anything I just want to throw this out there.....

I feel awesome!!!!! and I'm dropping pounds!!!!!! and I'm no longer pre-diabetic!!!!!!!!!!!! My acne has went away!!!!(that i've had my whole life!)

and I don't eat grains or sugar

Have a nice day!

You just can't argue with results

MissKim

oh, and forgot to mention, no more metformin for me, and no more high blood pressure pills for me

and i eat fat

Grokette

They will never get it!!!

bcattoes

I'm providing no argument, no research, no reply to anything I just want to throw this out there.....

I feel awesome!!!!! and I'm dropping pounds!!!!!! and I'm no longer pre-diabetic!!!!!!!!!!!! My acne has went away!!!!(that i've had my whole life!)

and I don't eat grains or sugar

Have a nice day!

You just can't argue with results

Exactly!! I feel fine and am healthy on my diet so I have no desire to change. And, believe it or not, I am very happy that you've found something that work for you. My intent was never to try and get anyone to switch from (or to) the Paleo diet.

myofibril

There exist diets that contain no grains. But wait, we’ve seen one such study comparing the Paleo Diet to the Mediterranean Diet, that ol’ “heart-healthy” darling of the media. Anyone recall that the grain-free Paleo Diet topped the “whole grain-rich” Mediterranean Diet?

You know what? The Paelo way of eating may well be the healthiest, most optimal way of eating.

However, I have made the this point before. It is evident that there are cultures throughout the world, including those in Mediterranean countries and the Japanese, that manage to have good heath and longevity of life DESPITE eating grains and gluten etc.

There may be distinct advantages in eating Paleo. However, outside of intolerances which affect the minority of people it is clear that you can live a happy, healthy life eating pasta, rice, noodles,food low in saturated fat and so on. You balance the health effects with the pleasure and communal aspects of eating and your body comes out just fine. It is a question of degree and balance which in the real world makes any imputed advantage from Paleo eating de minimis in my opinion.

Also saying the position "grains are inflammatory" (in other words consuming grains WILL result in inflammation) is different from saying "grains are PRO inflammatory" (grains have a greater likelihood of causing inflammation though the result is not a given. I think the second position is more sustainable than the first.

As for leaky gut syndrome. Can you explain it to me and does it involve micro perforations? If so, how does that occur...

bcattoes

There exist diets that contain no grains. But wait, we’ve seen one such study comparing the Paleo Diet to the Mediterranean Diet, that ol’ “heart-healthy” darling of the media. Anyone recall that the grain-free Paleo Diet topped the “whole grain-rich” Mediterranean Diet?

You know what? The Paelo way of eating may well be the healthiest, most optimal way of eating.

However, I have made the this point before. It is evident that there are cultures throughout the world, including those in Mediterranean countries and the Japanese, that manage to have good heath and longevity of life DESPITE eating grains and gluten etc.

There may be distinct advantages in eating Paleo. However, outside of intolerances which affect the minority of people it is clear that you can live a happy, healthy life eating pasta, rice, noodles,food low in saturated fat and so on. You balance the health effects with the pleasure and communal aspects of eating and your body comes out just fine. It is a question of degree and balance which in the real world makes any imputed advantage from Paleo eating de minimis in my opinion.

Also saying the position "grains are inflammatory" (in other words consuming grains WILL result in inflammation) is different from saying "grains are PRO inflammatory" (grains have a greater likelihood of causing inflammation though the result is not a given. I think the second position is more sustainable than the first.

As for leaky gut syndrome. Can you explain it to me and does it involve micro perforations? If so, how does that occur...

Very reasonable post. It makes me wonder if our tastes are predisposed to what our bodies need. For example, I don't eat a lot of meat because it sometimes makes me feel bloated and lethargic. And while I like most fruits I find that I don't eat them much unless I consciously think about it and make myself do so. I don't seem to want them often. But I do crave vegetables and grains and I feel better when I eat them. So that's what I mostly eat . I find it hard to believe that someone who feels the way I do about food would every go for a high protein diet such as Paleo. Maybe people who go for the no/low grain diets crave meat in the same way.

hpsnickers1

The way I see it, if you enjoy grains and they don't bother you then go for it. I had been dealing with digestive issues (from top to bottom - PUN!) since I was a kid. I ate nothing but sugar and carbs. IBS, stomach and intestinal pain, constipation, hiatal hernia. I went through most of my adult life eating the same way and having the same issues. I had mood swings, depression, bad sleep; I was tired all the time.

Last year I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. Rather than take a $112/month pill I decided to change my eating habits and start exercising. More fruits, veggies, "whole grains", etc. The pain went away but whenever I overloaded on sugar it came back for a couple of days. BUT - still had all the same issues that I stated above. To get my fruits, veggies and drop some weight I had to cut out some whole grains. I started with bread. For two weeks I 'emptied' out. Then back to the way I was before.

With Diabetes killing my dad and my older brother recently diagnosed I decided to look into some low carb options and I came across Marks Daily Apple. All the questions I still had running around my brain were answered. All the confusion I had cleared up. So I decided to just try it (I had already lost 10lbs. I was at a healthy weight) for a month and see what would happen.

I had an immediate positive response to cutting out all grains. I started with a fast (went 26 hours) and it felt wonderful just to not worry about food for a bit. I am now finishing up week 3 and I feel amazing!!! I have dropped another 4 lbs (120.4 to 115.8) of pure body fat (this is with eating lots of fat!) - my metabolism is still going strong. I do believe I had a gluten intolerance. I also think I was in the beginnings of insulin resistance. Fibromyalgia is a distant memory. And I haven't been 100% grain or sugar free. One day I had german chocolate cake (mom-in-laws are just as good at guilt as mom herself). Earlier this week I had some lightly breaded shrimp in a spicy sweet Asian sauce. Last Saturday I had store bought pizza - never again - the cardboard box probably had more flavor than that wonderful rising crust I used to enjoy so much.

I don't know if this would work for everyone. But I have been doing tons of research and reading (regarding nutrition and health) since November of last year and this is where it led me. I now know I will never go back to the way I ate before. Cutting out grains cut out the blood sugar swings, my weak, shaky feeling of hunger every couple of hours and freed me from the confines of eating 6 times a day. A nice meal of meat and fat will keep you satisfied for hours.

myofibril

(psssssst, hpsnickers. Don't tell anyone but I like MDA a whole bunch. I probably agree with 95% of the stuff written by Mark Sisson. it's just a shame that his message gets distorted out of all proportion. Maybe its the fault of people like me. Or maybe it's the fault of some people who claim to follow his guidelines but do such a half assed job of portraying them on forums such as these...

Personally, I don't care as I am going on holiday Good luck lady. I'm glad it works for you.)

Now where was I? Paleo. Boooooooo.

freerange

(psssssst, hpsnickers. Don't tell anyone but I like MDA a whole bunch. I probably agree with 95% of the stuff written by Mark Sisson. it's just a shame that his message gets distorted out of all proportion. Maybe its the fault of people like me. Or maybe it's the fault of some people who claim to follow his guidelines but do such a half assed job of portraying them on forums such as these...

Personally, I don't care as I am going on holiday Good luck lady. I'm glad it works for you.)

Now where was I? Paleo. Boooooooo.

I won't tell, if you don't tell I'm starting to like you,,,, a little. Hey I'm a dude not like you, that way.

bcattoes

What drinks are allowed on the Paleo diet? Just water? Where do you get any type of drink these days that hasn't been processed? Bottled or tap, it's still processed. Even if you drink from a stream, well the soil and air are not exactly contaminate free (unfortunately).