the myth, starvation mode, and dont eat before bed.

registers

This is something that bothers me big time, when people make decisions without really thinking about them. Just because "someone says so" including myself. I am not here trying to tell anyone what to do, I am just providing information from what makes sense to me. If you look at a theory from different angles, all theories contradict each other. So how do we know which theories or ideas are best? We apply them and see how they work for us.

I think most myths arises due to the fact people jump to conclusions without all the puzzle pieces. I think this is how the theory came in to place.

1. Starvation mode - I used to believe this theory, you know what happened? I got fatter. The theory is, if you don't eat enough calories, your metabolism will slow down, because your body doesn't know when it will eat again, so it turns everything in to fat, because fat is the primary fuel for humans.
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What happens if you don't eat enough to maintain your current body weight? Your body has to adjust to a lower caloric level, stripping the body of muscle, since you don't have enough calories to maintain the muscle it will disappear. What happens when you have lower levels of muscle mass??? you burn less calories. If you maintain that caloric intake, you'll be fine, if you increase your calories higher(for example you went on a crash diet, now resume your old caloric intake) you will store fat like crazy, due to the fact you don't have the muscle mass to burn enough calories like before, so you'll get fatter than when you first started.

Eating at low caloric levels are very beneficial to weight loss, IF you know how to do it properly. For example eating very little one day, and over eating the next. When you don't eat, what happens to your body, what is hunger from a biological perspective? It's just a form of bodily stress. Imagine the cavemen back in the day, food was scares often. When you're hungry you're in the "fight or flight" mode... What does this do? Increase adrenaline levels, increase body responses, makes you more focused, and on top of that... it also increase GH levels (growth hormone) which is a very powerful biochemical which burns fat and preserves muscle tissue. Does it make sense that when you're hungry, get rid of the most essential part of your body muscle mass??? NO. It does its best to preserve it when you're hungry. Being hungry also increases IGF-1(Insulin Like Growth Factor - 1) receptors in the body. So your body is more prone to muscle growth, with the GH??? That is the supreme steroid stack used by professional body builders, we're doing the same thing, but with our diet instead of artificial drugs. IGF-1 is found in mothers breast milk, that's why babies grow so fast.

Back to the cavemen, where human biology began. You think back in the day cavemen where eating 6 times a day? They couldn't even if they wanted to. When food is scares they barely ate, if they ate at all, then when they got a hunt, they would pig out. Ever consider this is how our bodies work? You think a hunter is going to go and hunt after a huge breakfast? Myth: breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Humans are designed to eat a big meal at night. Why you think most parties are designed around dinner, gatherings at dinner time. Compared to breakfast... I don't ever remember hearing "we're having a breakfast party. Like i already mentioned when we don't eat it triggers the sympathetic nervous system(fight or flight response), which is very good to have during the day. More focus, better alertness, more responsiveness. You know what happens when you eat... it triggers the parasympathetic nervous system, the PNS, you know what this is responsible for? It's responsible for rest and recuperation. So when you eat, your body slows down, you get tired, groggy, because your body is recuperating... Do you think as humans we need to do this 6 times a day??(6 meals a day)??? NO, that's just ludicrous At what point do you want to be TIRED, and feel at easy and relax? during the day or at night? the answer is obvious. The best time to eat is AT NIGHT.. When does the body repair itself the most? during sleep, does it make sense not to eat at night, not providing your body with vital recovery protein, carbs, nutrients critical for muscle growth? Obviously not. I don't advise playing with these methods without proper education on how to apply them.
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6heatherb6

AT LAST!!! Someone who can verbalise (well...type) what I've been saying and knowing....Starvation mode - PLEASE...not one of us on here are STARVING!!! Well said I hope people out there listen to you!!

ladyhawk00

References? Evidence? Scientific, reproducable studies?

Here is a short list of scientific studies that validate the concept of "starvation mode" (or famine response or adaptive thermogenesis, whichever you prefer). There are many others, but this is a good start on evidence for lowered metabolism and loss of lean mass in extreme caloric restriction (VLCD or underfeeding).

http://www.ajcn.org/content/53/4/826.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613433?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/content/49/1/93.full.pdf+html
http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/2/391.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6694559&dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.ajcn.org/content/57/2/127.full.pdf
http://www.ajcn.org/content/51/2/167.abstract?ck=nck
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n3/abs/0803720a.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_n7-8_v15/ai_18602507/
http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Human-Starvation-I/dp/0816672342/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Human-Starvation-II/dp/0816672334/ref=pd_sim_b_2

sunshine79

Mostly I agree with what you have said. Whilst I don't wish to engage in yet another debate about 'starvation mode' I personally think that it is a pile of nonsense, I 'ate back' exercise calories and I gained weight. The further I go on this journey the more I learn and from reading I have begun to understand more about hormone levels and leptin and bodily responses to food etc.

I also agree with challenging the 'myth' about breakfast being the most important meal of the day - it isn't. That was an idea created by breakfast cereal companies to boost sales of their sugar filled cereals. Actually, periods of time without food can be good for the body (google intermittent fasting if you need more info).

Again, as you've said I'm not suggesting that anyone try any of these things without first properly researching but it is important that people realise that there are other view points.

Finally, whilst I do agree to some extent about eating often and it slowing you down I'd like to suggest that it's maybe what is eaten that can cause this. I have found that eating lots of processed carbs and sugar definitely creates that sluggish feeling BUT if you eat more natural foods (fruit, veg etc) and some protein you are far less likely to feel this way.

Thanks for a great post.

registers

References? Evidence? Scientific, reproducable studies?

Here is a short list of scientific studies that validate the concept of "starvation mode" (or famine response or adaptive thermogenesis, whichever you prefer). There are many others, but this is a good start on evidence for lowered metabolism and loss of lean mass in extreme caloric restriction (VLCD or underfeeding).

http://www.ajcn.org/content/53/4/826.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613433?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/content/49/1/93.full.pdf+html
http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/2/391.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6694559&dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.ajcn.org/content/57/2/127.full.pdf
http://www.ajcn.org/content/51/2/167.abstract?ck=nck
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n3/abs/0803720a.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_n7-8_v15/ai_18602507/
http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Human-Starvation-I/dp/0816672342/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Human-Starvation-II/dp/0816672334/ref=pd_sim_b_2

WHere did i say... "lower caloric levels don't decrease muscle mass???"

LiL_MisS_C

I live by the rule of eating at LEAST 1200 net calories a day, and it's been working wonderfully for me.

LTRUITT3

BUMP

Bridgetc140

I wish there were a like button.

NukeMomma

Humans have evolved biologically since caveman days. A healthy breakfast is important. I think your opinion is poorly constructed, sorry.

bjscmg

I'm with ya on the eating breakfast....I rarely eat it and I am doing just fine!

ladyhawk00

References? Evidence? Scientific, reproducable studies?

Here is a short list of scientific studies that validate the concept of "starvation mode" (or famine response or adaptive thermogenesis, whichever you prefer). There are many others, but this is a good start on evidence for lowered metabolism and loss of lean mass in extreme caloric restriction (VLCD or underfeeding).

http://www.ajcn.org/content/53/4/826.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613433?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ajcn.org/content/49/1/93.full.pdf+html
http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/2/391.full.pdf+html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6694559&dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.ajcn.org/content/57/2/127.full.pdf
http://www.ajcn.org/content/51/2/167.abstract?ck=nck
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n3/abs/0803720a.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_n7-8_v15/ai_18602507/
http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Human-Starvation-I/dp/0816672342/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/Biology-Human-Starvation-II/dp/0816672334/ref=pd_sim_b_2

WHere did i say... "lower caloric levels don't decrease muscle mass???"

You said:

1. Starvation mode .... The theory is, if you don't eat enough calories, your metabolism will slow down,

Which you claim is a myth.

And then said:

Does it make sense that when you're hungry, get rid of the most essential part of your body muscle mass??? NO. It does its best to preserve it when you're hungry.

That seems to be a pretty clear statement that you believe that extreme calorie restriction will not decrease muscle mass.

kenzietea

I agree that an evening meal should be the largest, absolutely. A sign of a healthy person typically means they are hungriest at night time. BUT as to the 'myth of starvation mode' I disagree and I believe most nutritionists and dietitians would as well. My nutritionist certainly does. Starvation mode does exist and their absolutely is such a thing as eating too little calories. Human beings are biologically created to gain weight, not lose it. Cavemen did have low calorie diets because of the scare food supply and the fact they had to search and hunt, this is true, but they were also programmed to gain weight. Their bodies would store as much as possible, to get through harsh winters etc. Yes, eating a LOW calorie diet is an important factor in losing weight, but if you decrease your caloric intake to more than 50% of your BMR, your metabolism will decrease by up to 40%, and it is unsustainable. I recommend this article. http://caloriecount.about.com/truth-starvation-mode-ft28742. So no, starvation mode is not as bad as a lot of the MFP members seem to think, but it still does exist and can have mild and serious side effects. I did a starvation diet, lost a lot of weight at first, but then plateaued. After increasing my calories, I CONSISTENTLY lose weight each week and don't feel hungry all of the time. It also just makes things seem much more reasonable and based on an average weekly pound loss, the weight is coming off quicker. I applied the 'theory' of starvation mode to my own life by avoiding it, and have had much better results, and I have the blood work and muscle tone to prove it!

registers

a

registers

Okay, obviously some people aren't reading this very carefully. Low caloric intake "OVER TIME" does decreasing muscle mass, never said It didn't. About the "studies" i am not going to go and paste the studies of over 14yrs of experience. Why do you need scientific studies to tell you something. For example, If you eat a lot, do you get tired of energized??? if a scientific study says "it energizes the body" are you going to believe it? Does it make sense being hungry is stress? Does it make sense that your body recuperates and repairs itself at night? DOes it make sense that, when you're hungry your body isn't processing food and you have more energy??? I don't need scientific studies to tell me anything. I go by personal experience, not someone who has been "taught" to read books, and believe them, just because "someone said so"

caldolphingirlie

Although you make a good point about the starvation method it is important to note that if you eat to little calories your body will not have the energy it needs to function normally. When your body doesn't have enough energy it sucks it from your muscles, which does in fact cause you to seemingly loose weight at first, because muscle weighs more than fat, then gain more back because you do need muscles to burn calories, the more muscle mass you have, the more calories you burn when you are at rest as well as working your body. The key is to find a balance between what you are putting in as well as out. Also the reason why people say that breakfast is the most important meal of the day, is because while you are sleeping your body is using all of the glycogen that your body has stored from your last meal to heal and repair your muscles and body. When you wake up your glycogen levels (or sugar/ energy stores) are all used up. Your body needs you to eat in the morning so that you can replenish these stores so that your muscles can function at a proper level. Remember that your brain is also a muscle, in fact, its one of the biggest muscles in our bodies. If you fail to eat breakfast you are in a way handicapping your performance for the day. I learned most of this from a Nutrition class I took in college and the text book, but there is also tons of scientific support for this on the web as well. You can find it in google scholar.

Noctuary

Apparently cavemen weren't Diabetic.

crisanderson27

I agree that an evening meal should be the largest, absolutely. A sign of a healthy person typically means they are hungriest at night time. BUT as to the 'myth of starvation mode' I disagree and I believe most nutritionists and dietitians would as well. My nutritionist certainly does. Starvation mode does exist and their absolutely is such a thing as eating too little calories. Human beings are biologically created to gain weight, not lose it. Cavemen did have low calorie diets because of the scare food supply and the fact they had to search and hunt, this is true, but they were also programmed to gain weight. Their bodies would store as much as possible, to get through harsh winters etc. Yes, eating a LOW calorie diet is an important factor in losing weight, but if you decrease your caloric intake to more than 50% of your BMR, your metabolism will decrease by up to 40%, and it is unsustainable. I recommend this article. http://caloriecount.about.com/truth-starvation-mode-ft28742. So no, starvation mode is not as bad as a lot of the MFP members seem to think, but it still does exist and can have mild and serious side effects. I did a starvation diet, lost a lot of weight at first, but then plateaued. After increasing my calories, I CONSISTENTLY lose weight each week and don't feel hungry all of the time. It also just makes things seem much more reasonable and based on an average weekly pound loss, the weight is coming off quicker. I applied the 'theory' of starvation mode to my own life by avoiding it, and have had much better results, and I have the blood work and muscle tone to prove it!

Well said hun.

I always lose weight when I eat more as well. And I mean...MORE.

charliebird

I also think its important to understand how your own body works and also the differences between men and women.

I agree I don't think any of us are starving!

I know that if I eat a big breakfast in the morning I am starving for the rest of the day. If I eat a big meal at night - I don't feel hungry in the morning!!

Part of this journey is understanding our own bodies and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for someone else!

VLCD are now being encouraged by some GP's in the UK to reduce weight - as they are seen as less life threatening than being morbidly obese (these diets are closely monitored.) I know two people that have had to go on one of these diets and both have lost significant weight and then put on muscle mass (after they lost the weight they slowly increased both calorie intake and exercise! Yet in theory they have been in starvation mode. The issue I think there is with this approach is actually it doesn't teach you how to eat healthily and thats why we put the weight back on.

I do think there is this condition but I think it takes a while before it kicks in.

Interesting debate as ever!

ladyhawk00

Okay, obviously some people aren't reading this very carefully. Low caloric intake "OVER TIME" does decreasing muscle mass, never said It didn't. About the "studies" i am not going to go and paste the studies of over 14yrs of experience. Why do you need scientific studies to tell you something. For example, If you eat a lot, do you get tired of energized??? if a scientific study says "it energizes the body" are you going to believe it? Does it make sense being hungry is stress? Does it make sense that your body recuperates and repairs itself at night? DOes it make sense that, when you're hungry your body isn't processing food and you have more energy??? I don't need scientific studies to tell me anything. I go by personal experience, not someone who has been "taught" to read books, and believe them, just because "someone said so"

Don't worry, I read it very carefully. And if you want experience, I know that I was in starvation mode for quite a while.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/175241-a-personal-view-on-exercise-cals-and-underfeeding

I experienced it. So...does that mean you believe in it now? Since I've given you a personal experience? I'm guessing not. The point being, we're talking about biology, anatomy, chemical/hormonal reactions and science. It's hardly unreasonable to be interested in direct evidence that shows that what you're claiming is backed up by science.

BTW, I'll agree that there's nothing wrong with eating at night. Though I would disagree with taking in the majority of your calories at night. I suppose IF (intermittent fasting) does work for some people, it is not sustainable for the vast majority.

jrt9999

Kind of funny how you will have many folks saying you have the correct answers for weight loss and just as many saying everything you argue against is the correct ways of weight loss...

Maybe it is plain and simple... To lose weight you eat less calories than you use. It is all in how each individual wants to do it. If some folks want to consistently eat a severely restrictive diet and are ok with losing lean muscle mass along with fat I say go for it. Me personally, I think I will stick to eating often and lots of variety.

bjscmg

Although you make a good point about the starvation method it is important to note that if you eat to little calories your body will not have the energy it needs to function normally. When your body doesn't have enough energy it sucks it from your muscles, which does in fact cause you to seemingly loose weight at first, because muscle weighs more than fat, then gain more back because you do need muscles to burn calories, the more muscle mass you have, the more calories you burn when you are at rest as well as working your body. The key is to find a balance between what you are putting in as well as out. Also the reason why people say that breakfast is the most important meal of the day, is because while you are sleeping your body is using all of the glycogen that your body has stored from your last meal to heal and repair your muscles and body. When you wake up your glycogen levels (or sugar/ energy stores) are all used up. Your body needs you to eat in the morning so that you can replenish these stores so that your muscles can function at a proper level. Remember that your brain is also a muscle, in fact, its one of the biggest muscles in our bodies. If you fail to eat breakfast you are in a way handicapping your performance for the day. I learned most of this from a Nutrition class I took in college and the text book, but there is also tons of scientific support for this on the web as well. You can find it in google scholar.

Well sheesh maybe I should eat breakfast.....I sometimes put my shoes on the wrong feet and forgot my kids names WAIT what is this about again? LOL no seriously I hate breakfast so I eat an early lunch instead.

kenzietea

Okay, obviously some people aren't reading this very carefully. Low caloric intake "OVER TIME" does decreasing muscle mass, never said It didn't. About the "studies" i am not going to go and paste the studies of over 14yrs of experience. Why do you need scientific studies to tell you something. For example, If you eat a lot, do you get tired of energized??? if a scientific study says "it energizes the body" are you going to believe it? Does it make sense being hungry is stress? Does it make sense that your body recuperates and repairs itself at night? DOes it make sense that, when you're hungry your body isn't processing food and you have more energy??? I don't need scientific studies to tell me anything. I go by personal experience, not someone who has been "taught" to read books, and believe them, just because "someone said so"

Well maybe what works for you doesn't work for others. I never eat less than 50% of the calories to maintain my current weight. and when you eat 'a lot' of course you feel sluggish. But when you eat when you are hungry, make healthy choices, and eat less calories than you need to maintain, you lose the majority of pounds in body fat. And yes, food=energy. I am pretty sure if it didn't, we would not have to eat... but, thats just a "theory"

caldolphingirlie

Just because the meal is breakfast does not mean you have to eat breakfast foods or at a certain time, it just means that when you wake up you need to replenish your body's energy level from the night before, so that it can function at its peak. It also doesn't really matter what meal or when you eat the most, it matters what you put into your body and that you actually eat and not skip meals. The calories in and how much of those calories you burn is also important, regardless of starvation methods or whatever, when you burn more than you put in, then you loose weight, plain and simple.

registers

[qoute]
WHere did i say... "lower caloric levels don't decrease muscle mass???"
[/quote]

You said:

1. Starvation mode .... The theory is, if you don't eat enough calories, your metabolism will slow down,

Which you claim is a myth.

And then said:

Does it make sense that when you're hungry, get rid of the most essential part of your body muscle mass??? NO. It does its best to preserve it when you're hungry.

[qoute]
That seems to be a pretty clear statement that you believe that extreme calorie restriction will not decrease muscle mass.
[/quote]

I didn't say "use severe calorie restriction." I do understand what you're saying, I didn't want to get all techy with it, I know I got a tendency to type a lot. What I said is a paradox, 2 things that seem in conflict which are actually complementary.

Does it make sense that when you're hungry, get rid of the most essential part of your body muscle mass??? NO. It does its best to preserve it when you're hungry.

I said "it does its BEST" to preserve it. Yes if you eat low calories for a long time, IT WILL reduce muscle mass. The theory is "your body stores fat because you're on low calories" that's IS A MYTH... the fact is, "you lose muscle mass which in turn slows down your metabolism.

This is what I DO... I eat low calories 2 times a day, about 1,500 calories a day, my maintained calories is 3,500. Mostly protein, the reason is because, as I said being hungry increases Growth hormone, and IGF-1, which preserves muscle and burns fat. Then on day 3, I let loose eat a ton of carbs, with protein, to prevent the loss of muscle mass, underrating preserves the muscle mass, IT WONT WORK if you go too long with under eating. Like i said at first, "don't listen to anyone, try it yourself, then judge" 13lbs of weight loss in 2 weeks with this method... speaks for itself. In one meal today i ate about 3000 calories. This is what I have been doing, and have been great results. You can't argue with results.

Begsnapper

if youre trying to lose weight then you shouldnt eat within 3 hours of bed. if theres nothing in your stomach your body will burn fat at this time instead of food. burned fat = weight loss

ps. weight is such a dumb measure. use how you look and feel as a measure of when youre doing things right. or bmi

weight fluctuates so much and people freak out for no reason

Begsnapper

your post is very opinionated and unfortunately this time your opinion is wrong. people would be wise to do the exact opposite of what youre recommending

registers

Okay, obviously some people aren't reading this very carefully. Low caloric intake "OVER TIME" does decreasing muscle mass, never said It didn't. About the "studies" i am not going to go and paste the studies of over 14yrs of experience. Why do you need scientific studies to tell you something. For example, If you eat a lot, do you get tired of energized??? if a scientific study says "it energizes the body" are you going to believe it? Does it make sense being hungry is stress? Does it make sense that your body recuperates and repairs itself at night? DOes it make sense that, when you're hungry your body isn't processing food and you have more energy??? I don't need scientific studies to tell me anything. I go by personal experience, not someone who has been "taught" to read books, and believe them, just because "someone said so"

Well maybe what works for you doesn't work for others. I never eat less than 50% of the calories to maintain my current weight. and when you eat 'a lot' of course you feel sluggish. But when you eat when you are hungry, make healthy choices, and eat less calories than you need to maintain, you lose the majority of pounds in body fat. And yes, food=energy. I am pretty sure if it didn't, we would not have to eat... but, thats just a "theory"

Does your biochemical response change if you eat A LOT or a little??? NO. still triggers the parasympathetic nervous system. Which is not beneficial to weight loss.

musica814

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't get tired when I eat, if I'm eating the right things! If I have a whopping bowl of ice cream with hot fudge and sprinkles, then of course i'm going to feel sluggish. If I have a tunafish sandwich with avocado and some other veggies/fruits on the side, why would that make me tired? Eating "healthy" energizes me and stops my hunger pains....

registers

your post is very opinionated and unfortunately this time your opinion is wrong. people would be wise to do the exact opposite of what youre recommending

Why is it wrong. IF you have strong beliefs of opposition. My experience, is I taken the NASM certification course (national academy of sports medicine) plus I have over 14yrs of experience in the health and fitness community. But thanks for your input.

Begsnapper

probably the most incorrect post ive ever seen on this site, LOL

your heart seems to be in the right place, but THIS IS THE WORST ADVICE

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS POST PEOPLE!!

starvation mood DOES exist if you are eating less then 1200 cal for women or 1500 cal for men your body will store its body fat because it thinks theres a famine taking place. you need enough calories to function daily. get exercise instead of eating less way better for you!!!

breakfast IS important! fires up the metabolism and gives you the fuel you need to start your day. starving yourself until lunch will cause you to over indulge and possibly make poor food choices

DO NOT eat a big meal before bed if youre trying to lose weight. best time to be hungry is when your asleep. plus your bod will go burn fat if theres nothing in your stomach for it to burn

basically do the exact opposite of what this post says and you should be on the right track

Noctuary

I've been following a member's blog on here. She eats aprox 800 calories a day and works out to what she says is 700 calories burned. She then finds she has not lost any weight and wonders why. I consider her to be a perfect role model for what starvation mode really does.

I'll pass and continue eating.