the myth, starvation mode, and dont eat before bed.

registers

Cave man, yawn I could care less about him..

Eating 6 meals a day pevents catabolic feeding on your muscles..
With the proper macros you can enter into fat burning melting mode with sacrificing lean muscle. A reloading day on carbs can then be used to restore depleted glycogen.

I started out at 245 with a very high bodyfat.
The method above with exercise allowed me to get to 5% bf.
Initally, I would suggest just eating clean making small changes and then when you start to plateau worry about this stuff..

I pretty much agree with you, except about the eating 6 meals a day preventing catabolism. you did mention vaguely about cycling carbs. which I agree on. If you eat the right macro nutrients, you won't be in a catablic state, I don't think it has to do with the 6 meals a day. It has to do with the macro nutrient ratios you consume.

MattAxtell

People need to settle down. You made a topic, with great information that works for you. If other people want to try it, that is their choice.

If they decide to try it and it backfires, then they will stop doing it and try something else.

People are perfectly capable of making their own decisions.

Any advice you get on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt anyway... and if not, you will learn from your mistakes.

OP, thanks for the information, I will take it with a grain of salt, but also with an open mind

MattAxtell

.

AZackery

I want to say something about breakfast. To me it is the most important meal of the day. Why, it gets you started. A person can't really function well on an empty stomach.

If you are a diabetic, you better eat breakfast, unless you are fasting for blood work, other than that, you better eat breakfast. Skip breakfast and see what your body will do. Another thing, diabetic medicine requires you to eat something.

_Bro

I pretty much agree with you, except about the eating 6 meals a day preventing catabolism. you did mention vaguely about cycling carbs. which I agree on. If you eat the right macro nutrients, you won't be in a catablic state, I don't think it has to do with the 6 meals a day. It has to do with the macro nutrient ratios you consume.

Let me clarify.
The body can not store protein and amino acids only stay in your blood stream for a few hours after you've consumed them.
So the multiple meals ensure that you stay in positive nitrogen balance as you've got a stead stream of amino's. No catabolism. Slow digesting proteins like cottage cheese (casein) are great pre-bed snacks as it is a very slow digesting protein that ensures that you have a trickle of amino's while you sleep..

My reference to carb cycling was a bit vague as this is more of an advanced fat loss tool.
In my own opinion it's really not necessary when you first start out as it's very rigid..

Good luck!

registers

And there's a little more to it than you've posted, I think. We fundamentally disagree regarding ascriminal...but not for the reasons I think you would expect. It would be different if he posted up one post, with a controversial topic you know? What he's doing is trying to undermine the premise of this forum, which is safe, healthy dieting habits.

Cris, I understanding what you're saying about censor ship,even though i took it out of your quote. Yes I also agree some people will try to do stupid things for quick results. WHat is the common advice to lose weight, "eat healthy, and exercise" i completely agree with that for a beginner. Can the information be misinterpreted? yes it can. What is healthy eating? This can be interpreted as eat many salads a day and exercise intensely for quick results. Is this what we mean? NO. Everyone knows to create a caloric deficit. Does this mean eating 200 calories a day to lose weight? No.

If you're talking about censor ship with the 800 calorie diet i mentioned. I completely undertand, that is unhealthy and unsafe. As I stated I didn't post it for it to be followed, I posted it to make a point. I am against that type of dieting. It was just to make a point.

If you're starting my original post is unhealthy. Honestly my Original post talks about intermittent fasting, this means fasting for a "short" period, then eating your calories.

What happens when you get sick, is your desire to go eat a big meal? NO, people stop eating when they're sick. Why? it clears their body of toxins. So does short term fasting.

So it comes to night time, time to eat, you think you can eat a ton of calories at night time if you eat healthy food? NO way, you won't even come close to your BMR. So you are in a caloric deficit, hasn't reduced calorie diets been linked to longer life span and greater health? yes

Plus the growth hormone production when you're on your short term fast, which is anti agining, fast burning, muscle perserving hormone.

With all the benefits I listed, it's "HEALTHIER" than the typical standard way of eating.

registers

I pretty much agree with you, except about the eating 6 meals a day preventing catabolism. you did mention vaguely about cycling carbs. which I agree on. If you eat the right macro nutrients, you won't be in a catablic state, I don't think it has to do with the 6 meals a day. It has to do with the macro nutrient ratios you consume.

Let me clarify.
The body can not store protein and amino acids only stay in your blood stream for a few hours after you've consumed them.
So the multiple meals ensure that you stay in positive nitrogen balance as you've got a stead stream of amino's. No catabolism. Slow digesting proteins like cottage cheese (casein) are great pre-bed snacks as it is a very slow digesting protein that ensures that you have a trickle of amino's while you sleep..

My reference to carb cycling was a bit vague as this is more of an advanced fat loss tool.
In my own opinion it's really not necessary when you first start out as it's very rigid..

Good luck!

It's interesting you say that. I have been doing a form of IF (intermittent fasting) when you only eat one time a day. But you eat a lot, it's not your typical few hundred calorie meal. It is in the thousands. I have been from 1500, to 4000calories within 2hrs. Depends on what I am trying to achieve biochemically.

I do also a form of carb cycling, won't get in to the details, because i am with you, it's for advanced people. I have been getting great results like this.

My perspective on muscle retention is by the fasting period of my day, it increases growth hormone, which preserves muscle tissue and also burns fat. You're looking at it from a nitrogen balance perspective. Which is interesting. Do you have any links or recommend reading on the subject? Maybe its possible to incorporate both methods in a structured diet and exercise plan to create a greater synergistic effect.

_Bro

Hmm, I've got plenty of books on my shelf.

One that I would highly recommend would be Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle by Tom Venuto - He makes a very good case for the multiple meals, and why you shouldn't eat before bed

I like to read stuff that challenges the way I think and perhaps this is for you as well.
As far as online, I like Scooby's website.. He's a 40 year old natural bodybuilder.

He has a good overview on carb cycling...
http://www.scoobysworkshop.com/carbcycling.htm

As far as IF, I've read about it quite a bit but it's not for me.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be snooty about carb cycling -- the simple truth is that you are much better off starting off with 'life style' changes and then use a tool like carb cycling to pull of the last few lbs when you want to.

Good luck...

registers

Hmm, I've got plenty of books on my shelf.

One that I would highly recommend would be Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle by Tom Venuto - He makes a very good case for the multiple meals, and why you shouldn't eat before bed

I like to read stuff that challenges the way I think and perhaps this is for you as well.
As far as online, I like Scooby's website.. He's a 40 year old natural bodybuilder.

He has a good overview on carb cycling...
http://www.scoobysworkshop.com/carbcycling.htm

As far as IF, I've read about it quite a bit but it's not for me.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be snooty about carb cycling -- the simple truth is that you are much better off starting off with 'life style' changes and then use a tool like carb cycling to pull of the last few lbs when you want to.

Good luck...

Yes I completely agree, beginners should focus on the basics, make it a life style change. I came across scooby a few times on youtube, he has great results, you can't argue with results. I do have the book you mentioned, It's in a pdf form, I download books by the hundreds sometimes. I never read that one, but I have seen it in my library. I'll check it out.

cupcakehost

Thanks for posting this....I used to do this kind of crazy stuff. But I wised up and started listening to the research. I eat my calories per day spread out and I even eat after 7pm, and so far I've lost weight!!! I can't believe I was actually starving myself before. Good reading.

kenzietea

I still don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this. So you don't agree with him; fine, you are a free willed adult, you don't have to! But come on people, he is allowed to have his opinion! If you don't want to do things his way, then don't, simple as that. The way I see it, he posted about what he believes and has tried to back it up by explaining where he got his information from. Why should that offend people? There are a lot of things that I don't agree with being posted in the forums everyday, but they don't upset me and get me all worked up! I just shake my head, maybe post my opinion if I feel strongly enough and then move on with my life. It would be nice if everyone else could do the same.

And about those people who are worried that others might take this 'dangerous/bad/irresponsible' advice... People have their own brains, and can make their own decisions. Sure, some people might read this and think that eating 800cals or skipping breakfast is a good idea for them, and then find that it makes them gain or feel dizzy, lethargic etc... But then they can stop. Crisis averted. You can't sensor people just because some other people might make bad decisions based on what others say. We're all capable of higher order thinking... We're all capable of making our own decisions. So you can agree or disagree with ascriminal, that's fine, but don't get all hot and bothered because you are worried about what others might do because of what he says. Just worry about yourselves. Find what works for you and run with it, maybe post about it if you'd like to try and help others like ascriminal. Or debate the topic without insinuating (or outright saying) that people who agree with the information are somehow bad people for voicing their opinions. And most importantly... (and I say this to my students multiple times a day; I would hope that by the time they are adults they would know better) Just. Worry. About. Yourself. :flowerforyou:

Great song in your signature =D.

And there's a little more to it than you've posted, I think. We fundamentally disagree regarding ascriminal...but not for the reasons I think you would expect. It would be different if he posted up one post, with a controversial topic you know? What he's doing is trying to undermine the premise of this forum, which is safe, healthy dieting habits. That's where the question of censorship comes in. If you go to an all women's gym...the rules state that you must be a female to enter, correct? Well...I'm a male!!...and maybe I want to work out there too...but it's not allowed. It flies in the face of the premise of the gym...what makes it different if you will. The difference is, here it's people's health at stake. Yes I understand that the majority of us are free thinking adults as you put it (you know there are overweight 16 and 17 year olds here...maybe even younger right??), but at the same time...people are TOTALLY irrational about losing weight sometimes. To the level where anything that will feed their misguided desire to eat less to lose weight will be taken as gospel, particularly when presented with false credentials and lots of official sounding studies (which very few people take the time to read).

I think that's more the point of the people that are standing up to this post. He posts up a post...then spends ten pages defending it and back pedaling to explain how what everyone read it as is not what he meant.

Then why say it in the first place?

Cris

My sister is also using this site, and she is 15. Although she isn't gullible, I can't say as much for her friends.

ladybugss

to long want to read later

kenzietea

blah blah blah blah blah, state something worth reading and something with meaning.

Oh cats got your tongue because I called you out on your illegitimate credentials?

Another thing, NASM, barely talks about nutrition, they give you the "jist of it" more of a one size fits all approach. What I have learned about nutrition came from my own personal research. You also said stuff about my weight. I have lost a ton of weight in the past over 100lbs. Yes I did gain most of it back. It wasn't due to my diet or nutritional habits. I "believe" i am not sure, but I think it was due to my extremely high intense exercise regimen I had. I stated in my profile I was training to go in to the navy BUD/S( BASIC Underwater Demolition/SEALs training ) basically a navy SEAL. It was too stressful for my body, and it broke me down. It wasn't even really that, I feel that was part of it. I was just in mexico, and the habits down there are different here in america. Talking about friend's and peer pressure. Friends who I have known all my life, since I was young, of course I want to hang out with them and stuff. They where a bunch of alcoholics. I just started to drink heavly, and I also had emotional issues due to a bad relationship. When I came back here to the US. Dietary patterns are a lot worse, I had nothing when I came back, because I was planning to go in to the military as I stated. I had no job, no money, no nothing. The dietary habits with the people I lived with weren't very healthy. As you can imagine my state of mind coming back from mexico, I just didn't care anymore about my physical condition so I let loose.

I do agree that my "current" physical appearance can throw people off.

Hey I never said you looked bad, I really don't think you do. I understand the tumultuous relationship causing weight gain- that was part of my issue too. Along with bad habits catching up to me because I could no longer work out because of a major knee surgery and a car accident. I had to give up my appointment with the United States Military Academy (west point) so depression was a major cause in my weight gain as well. Aside from the drinking (I can't drink, ick! lol), We gained weight for similar reasons. I just disagree with some of your theories.

registers

Hey I never said you looked bad, I really don't think you do. I understand the tumultuous relationship causing weight gain- that was part of my issue too. Along with bad habits catching up to me because I could no longer work out because of a major knee surgery and a car accident. I had to give up my appointment with the United States Military Academy (west point) so depression was a major cause in my weight gain as well. Aside from the drinking (I can't drink, ick! lol), We gained weight for similar reasons. I just disagree with some of your theories.

I remember when i was younger, if a fat guy tried to give me advice... yeah right. haha. It's fine you don't agree with my way of doing things. I know people who are successful doing things differently. My friend who is a bodybuilder, he eats 6 times a day. He looks great. I am the type of person who tries to get the most out of things, push them to the limits... see how far they really go. As I said before, I don't recommend what i said to beginners. I did make a new post a few days ago, it's called "nutrition guide for beginners" It pretty much says, "take small gradual steps to a healthy life style" I know that if you stress your body too much, by restricting calories too much, your body will resists. The more you push it, the more it will resist, and the more likely it will break.

I want everyone to be successful at what they do. like i said previously, i do want the best for people. I just feel there is a lot of bs in the community, and it's not right for people to be lied to or mislead. That's what bothers me, that's what this post is about. Telling people, things aren't always the way you have been told, to think for yourself, make wise decisions for yourself so you can be more successful at what you do. I agree, I could have said it differently, obviously it wasn't the best way to say it. haha

crisanderson27

I remember when i was younger, if a fat guy tried to give me advice... yeah right. haha. It's fine you don't agree with my way of doing things. I know people who are successful doing things differently. My friend who is a bodybuilder, he eats 6 times a day. He looks great. I am the type of person who tries to get the most out of things, push them to the limits... see how far they really go. As I said before, I don't recommend what i said to beginners. I did make a new post a few days ago, it's called "nutrition guide for beginners" It pretty much says, "take small gradual steps to a healthy life style" I know that if you stress your body too much, by restricting calories too much, your body will resists. The more you push it, the more it will resist, and the more likely it will break.

I want everyone to be successful at what they do. like i said previously, i do want the best for people. I just feel there is a lot of bs in the community, and it's not right for people to be lied to or mislead. That's what bothers me, that's what this post is about. Telling people, things aren't always the way you have been told, to think for yourself, make wise decisions for yourself so you can be more successful at what you do. I agree, I could have said it differently, obviously it wasn't the best way to say it. haha

The problem is...they've been 'lied to and misled' IN YOUR OPINION. The things you're declaiming are proven dieting strategies for healthy, safe weight loss. They WORK. Are they the absolutely most efficient?? Not necessarily...but no one has been 'lied to or misled'. Certainly some people misunderstand 'starvation mode' and so it is passed about somewhat incorrectly...BUT!!...no one will EVER get sick, or hurt themselves eating more than1200cal/day.

I think that's the majority of our point here...and is most certainly mine.

It's cool that you realize you could have said it differently...that's also 90% of what the argument's been about for the past however many pages. Too bad that disclaimer couldn't be added to the intial post.

Cris

kcavities

I live by the rule of eating at LEAST 1200 net calories a day, and it's been working wonderfully for me.

conversely, i live by the rule of eating at MOST 1200 calories a day, and my BMI is only in the 16 range; it's "working wonderfully" for me.
would i suggest it to anyone? no, the physical and mental side effects are unpleasant. but i find it necessary.

point is: calorie restriction leads to weight loss. that is fact.
good thread overall...

Russellb97

This thread went crazy quick, but here are the facts.

1. Starvation Mode is not a myth - I've experienced it numerous times, and it's been documented in even more studies.
2. You can eat late and lose weight, I eat about 60-75% of my daily calories after 5pm.
3. We all need to be more open minded, what the mainstream is teaching isn't working.
4.While I do believe the ultimate factor is "calories in versus calories out", there is without a doubt in my mind a tremendous amount of other variables like hormones and metabolism that can either make it easier or harder to burn fat.
5. IF or Intermittent Fasting is eye opening and I do believe it works in the short-term. These guys are not doing starvation diets like HCG, they just don't eat for short periods of 24 hours but then eat a lot for the next 24 hours. (it's not for everyone, including myself)
6. Growth hormone is extremely important for fat-loss, it is very helpful for weight-loss to try and spike it.
7. Insulin slows down fat-burning
8. If eating a large breakfast increases insulin and decreases growth hormone, maybe we shouldn't do that???
9. Most of the people here are awesome and I believe trying to help one another
10.There is more than one way to lose weight successfully.

taso42_DELETED

conversely, i live by the rule of eating at MOST 1200 calories a day, and my BMI is only in the 16 range; it's "working wonderfully" for me.
would i suggest it to anyone? no, the physical and mental side effects are unpleasant. but i find it necessary.

It's really NOT necessary. Why go through mental and physical unpleasantness? Why not be the best you can be both mentally and physically?

lizalmp1234

bump

kenzietea

Hey I never said you looked bad, I really don't think you do. I understand the tumultuous relationship causing weight gain- that was part of my issue too. Along with bad habits catching up to me because I could no longer work out because of a major knee surgery and a car accident. I had to give up my appointment with the United States Military Academy (west point) so depression was a major cause in my weight gain as well. Aside from the drinking (I can't drink, ick! lol), We gained weight for similar reasons. I just disagree with some of your theories.

I remember when i was younger, if a fat guy tried to give me advice... yeah right. haha. It's fine you don't agree with my way of doing things. I know people who are successful doing things differently. My friend who is a bodybuilder, he eats 6 times a day. He looks great. I am the type of person who tries to get the most out of things, push them to the limits... see how far they really go. As I said before, I don't recommend what i said to beginners. I did make a new post a few days ago, it's called "nutrition guide for beginners" It pretty much says, "take small gradual steps to a healthy life style" I know that if you stress your body too much, by restricting calories too much, your body will resists. The more you push it, the more it will resist, and the more likely it will break.

I want everyone to be successful at what they do. like i said previously, i do want the best for people. I just feel there is a lot of bs in the community, and it's not right for people to be lied to or mislead. That's what bothers me, that's what this post is about. Telling people, things aren't always the way you have been told, to think for yourself, make wise decisions for yourself so you can be more successful at what you do. I agree, I could have said it differently, obviously it wasn't the best way to say it. haha

I get what you're saying, I also see some truths behind what your original opinion was. I know I have some controversial dietary habits and beliefs myself. I also do agree with you that we are much less healthy than the days on Neanderthals as a whole. I actually wrote a paper on that. Sodium was virtually inaccessible, saturated fats were few and far between, etc. So I do agree with you on that. Also with the whole pushing your limits, I agree too- but I don't know if you read an earlier post by me, my little sister and a few of her friends have signed up for this site, and young girls especially will do anything to lose weight quickly. My 'passion' that has come through in many of my posts were solely because I was concerned that the youngin's on this site might read posts like yours and think they can eat next to nothing and be healthy. I think we both agree that when someone is only a few pounds overweight and are still growing (their freshman in high school, so 14 and 15), it is really important for them to eat balanced and enough, especially since a 15 year old metabolism is certainly a lot faster than a full grown adult. Also, I feel as if most 15 year old minds are not capable of understanding anything more than what is a healthy food and what is an unhealthy food, and if you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight. I doubt they have the capacity to understand the intricate workings of mirco- nutrients, the human metabolism, hormones, the breaking down of amino acids, etc.

And to everyone who says "people should be smart enough to do what works for them, etc."-there and young and impressionable people on this site. I used to be one of them, which is why I suffered an eating disorder for quite a while. There are overweight people at every age. Any ADULT should be intelligent enough to know what will work for them.