If you think you're in starvation mode...

otr12

I love how people quote wikipedia as fact.
By love I mean the opposite of that.

webbed1

Ok people, Lets get PRECISE on this.

There isn't much if ANY experimentally or clinically peer reviewed 2x4 or 4x4 or whatever peer reviewed cohort design methodology that measures urine, blood, body stats, etc is employed to provide a definitive conclusion here.

I will therefore introduce a REAL anecdote and then make my point from there, ACKNOWLEDING the above disclaimer.

Back in the late 70s, a very heated argument ensued amongst bodybuilders at a FAMOUS REAL gym; the debaters, debunkers, and full of ****ters finally turned to Arnold and asked, what do you think? He replied, in that thick Austrian/German accent: "its simple. If it jiggles, it's FAT."

There is no value in trying discuss this topic with overweight people who WILL continue to be overweight because they want to split hairs instead of portions. Hey, I am an educated opinionator: If you havve medical conditions, are severely overweight, YES, talk to a GOOD doctor. PLEASE. Get clearance. I would also agree, read my other posts, that calories below 1500 better

webbed1

don't see the final thought that was critical, must have made a mistake and hit reply before I was finished-- I was saying, calories below 1500 SHOULD be authorized by a clinician. There are real medical issues that need to be surmounted.

Peace, and truly, best wishes in your quest.

Babyblue4711

Exact words from my physician on Wednesday morning. To lose the 225 pounds I need to lose, I need to eat at least 1200 calories and preferably 1500 calories a day to avoid starvation mode.

registers

Exact words from my physician on Wednesday morning. To lose the 225 pounds I need to lose, I need to eat at least 1200 calories and preferably 1500 calories a day to avoid starvation mode.

I "disagree" with the term starvation mode. The rest the dr said, I agree. I think there is a big pile of confusion. Eating a restrictive caloric diet, long term will cause a loss of muscle mass.

Like I said there are many doctors who have been wrong about things, they cause more harm than good, and there are many doctors who have been very good. Just because someone is certified doesn't automatically make them right.

funkyspunky871

Starvation would be the extreme case. Continual, prolonged malnourishment, complete lack of nutrition leading to the symptoms in your initial post. I think when people on MFP think (yes, most of the time falsely) that they're in "starvation mode", they're not refering to this extreme case.

I do however agree with what I think is your underlying point - many (not all) MFP users who are extremely worried about entering starvation mode are probably victims to some degree of scare-mongering. However, I think it's better to be over-cautious than to be ignorant to the risks.

By the by, Wikipedia prides itself on being "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit". Whilst the information on there is generally accurate, it's also user edited and therefore the language can be very easy to misconstrue. I wouldn't base scientific assessments on what I read there.

There couldn't be a more perfect post than this one right here. That's all I've got to say about that.

pyro13g

Starvation mode is not used to describe starvation. It's used to describe the the protective measures your body takes when food is not adequate. It's a proven fact that muscle is cannibalized over fat (but intense strength training can lessen it greatly if not totally mitigate it) The loss of muscle slows metabolism making you require less calories. The loss of muscle makes other system that support muscle adjust downward, skeletal, cardio vascular, organs etc). More fat is taken later when the body has less over all energy. Moving fat out of storage for use requires less energy than converting muscle to glycogen for use. Two different things. One is symptoms at the end, the other is the initial strategy your body takes to survive.

The Wiki post is backwards.

carmenstop1

I am one of many people on this site that has gone through starvation mode! I thought I needed to starve myself to lose weight, most days only eating around 800-900 calories thinking that was the answer and all I did was steadily gain! I now eat around 1500 calories (and eat my exercise calories too) and I am finally losing. I think that your posts are possibly harming people with out any facts to back yourself up! I have lived through it and I just want to say that just because you haven't experienced something (ie: starvation mode) does not mean it does not exist! Did I starve myself....no! Was I in starvation mode....certainly!

If you have all the answers, why do you need to use this site...go start your own and call it the "No Starvation Mode Fitness Pal"

LisaKyle11

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that starvation and the bodies defensive "starvation mode" were two different things...

me too... 'mode'

crisanderson27

Hey man, if you get bypass surgery. You're supposed to eat anywhere from 500-1000 calories after the surgery. This will include a 800lbs indivual. How is that different than a man just eating 800 calories a day? Which in theory, puts in him starvation mode.

You keep saying this. Those people are on a STRICTLY regulated diet, STRICTLY monitored. They have SO much fat to lose, and so LITTLE muscle by comparison...the body can eat itself all it wants...because ANYTHING is healthier than being EIGHT HUNDRED FREAKING POUNDS, or any OTHER morbidly obese number.

Figure it out? You're comparing things from everywhere, on 70 different threads...hoping that somewhere, one of your pet theories will be accepted. Dude, you're going to get someone seriously hurt...and the worst part is, you have no accountability whatsoever...because every fifth post (after your initial post starting crap), you throw in a disclaimer 'don't do this without seeing a doctor'! Well no *kitten*!! It's dangerous!

yep, and not listen to someone who prides himself from self learning with nothing to back it up. . .

Come on people, quit posting stuff that could cause people to hurt themselves.

Nothing to back up? MOst of these theories come from body building, results are the back up. Despite what any dr or any scientific research says. Come on people, stop posting stuff that will leave people in a rut and prevent them from thinking for themselves. Don't let Dr's or Scientist think for you, think for yourself. COME ON PEOPLE. -rolls eyes-

Yes, because bodybuilders are in the business of seriously modifying their body BEYOND THE NORM...and are often on...again, strictly monitored and restricted diets. UNHEALTHY diets for the normal person! That's like using tuning theories that work for your 7 second race car...on your freaking mother's mini van.

Oh, another thing bodybuilders do regularly is drop their bodyfat as low as possible, and cut carbs out completely. Should we all do that too??


Moderators...can we please do something about this barrage of threads that could possibly be dangerous to others?

Cris

flutterqueen04

Like I said there are many doctors who have been wrong about things, they cause more harm than good, and there are many doctors who have been very good. Just because someone is certified doesn't automatically make them right.

................and just because someone spouts that he's read books for 16 years doesn't make him right either! Personally I would prefer to be a moron-who-doesn't-think-for-themselves and go to my educated doctor who's had years of education, classes, clinical s, practice, HANDS ON LEARNING, an actual medical degree and not a self given Degree in Genius, and a good track record for my medical and dieting advice then someone who has just "read" books and obviously believes all that he reads cuz he quoted Wikipedia! How arrogant can someone be?!

pyro13g

Hey man, if you get bypass surgery. You're supposed to eat anywhere from 500-1000 calories after the surgery. This will include a 800lbs indivual. How is that different than a man just eating 800 calories a day? Which in theory, puts in him starvation mode.

You keep saying this. Those people are on a STRICTLY regulated diet, STRICTLY monitored. They have SO much fat to lose, and so LITTLE muscle by comparison...the body can eat itself all it wants...because ANYTHING is healthier than being EIGHT HUNDRED FREAKING POUNDS, or any OTHER morbidly obese number.

Figure it out? You're comparing things from everywhere, on 70 different threads...hoping that somewhere, one of your pet theories will be accepted. Dude, you're going to get someone seriously hurt...and the worst part is, you have no accountability whatsoever...because every fifth post (after your initial post starting crap), you throw in a disclaimer 'don't do this without seeing a doctor'! Well no *kitten*!! It's dangerous!

yep, and not listen to someone who prides himself from self learning with nothing to back it up. . .

Come on people, quit posting stuff that could cause people to hurt themselves.

Nothing to back up? MOst of these theories come from body building, results are the back up. Despite what any dr or any scientific research says. Come on people, stop posting stuff that will leave people in a rut and prevent them from thinking for themselves. Don't let Dr's or Scientist think for you, think for yourself. COME ON PEOPLE. -rolls eyes-

Yes, because bodybuilders are in the business of seriously modifying their body BEYOND THE NORM...and are often on...again, strictly monitored and restricted diets. UNHEALTHY diets for the normal person! That's like using tuning theories that work for your 7 second race car...on your freaking mother's mini van.

Oh, another thing bodybuilders do regularly is drop their bodyfat as low as possible, and cut carbs out completely. Should we all do that too??


Moderators...can we please do something about this barrage of threads that could possibly be dangerous to others?

Cris

Point being you CANNOT follow the regimen of any person that falls on the flat line of the bell curve. No matter which side of the curve they fall on.

mielikkibz

Exact words from my physician on Wednesday morning. To lose the 225 pounds I need to lose, I need to eat at least 1200 calories and preferably 1500 calories a day to avoid starvation mode.

I "disagree" with the term starvation mode. The rest the dr said, I agree. I think there is a big pile of confusion. Eating a restrictive caloric diet, long term will cause a loss of muscle mass.

Like I said there are many doctors who have been wrong about things, they cause more harm than good, and there are many doctors who have been very good. Just because someone is certified doesn't automatically make them right.

make s'em more right than 99% of the people on this board, including an IE I know of

mielikkibz

Like I said there are many doctors who have been wrong about things, they cause more harm than good, and there are many doctors who have been very good. Just because someone is certified doesn't automatically make them right.

................and just because someone spouts that he's read books for 16 years doesn't make him right either! Personally I would prefer to be a moron-who-doesn't-think-for-themselves and go to my educated doctor who's had years of education, classes, clinical s, practice, HANDS ON LEARNING, an actual medical degree and not a self given Degree in Genius, and a good track record for my medical and dieting advice then someone who has just "read" books and obviously believes all that he reads cuz he quoted Wikipedia! How arrogant can someone be?!

well said. . the crap being spewed is dangerous for people who will take it as gospel. . .

crisanderson27

Point being you CANNOT follow the regimen of any person that falls on the flat line of the bell curve. No matter which side of the curve they fall on.

Exactly, but those are the examples he's grasping at. Oh, and I forgot...cancer patients.

I really hope the mods clean these threads out. Not because I'm 'extreme' or 'opposed to other opinions' as he put it...but because people can make themselves stupid sick or worse by attempting to follow his 'theories' without proper medical help. Additionally, the ones that simply apply this or that...could be set back weeks or months in their own attempts, or become frustrated and quit altogether.

It's just not worth having it on the board in my opinion.

Cris

pyro13g

Exact words from my physician on Wednesday morning. To lose the 225 pounds I need to lose, I need to eat at least 1200 calories and preferably 1500 calories a day to avoid starvation mode.

I "disagree" with the term starvation mode. The rest the dr said, I agree. I think there is a big pile of confusion. Eating a restrictive caloric diet, long term will cause a loss of muscle mass.

Like I said there are many doctors who have been wrong about things, they cause more harm than good, and there are many doctors who have been very good. Just because someone is certified doesn't automatically make them right.

make s'em more right than 99% of the people on this board, including an IE I know of

Muscle loss happens in the short term at a calorie deficit. Couple weeks of calorie deficit without giving your body a reason to keep muscle will result in the loss of muscle, downgrade of systems needed to support lesser muscle, and a slowed metabolism.

alexbowser

Thank you. I've been scared of eating my exercise calories lately even though I know I need to eat them to be healthy. After I read your post I made a huge smoothie and drank all my exercise calories. Everything tells us that dieting means not eating, and it's so hard to deprogram ourselves.

You've worked hard and you deserve the body that you want. Good Luck.

12by311

Starvation mode or not.......LOL at using wikipedia as a reference.

lennykat

This is such a hoot. I don't know if it was "starvation mode", "stupid mode", "not enough sex mode" or what. But from January 3rd to April 21st I lost......0lbs....despite doing what criminal is saying. I ate only around 800 cal a day and kicked it in the gym for 70 to 90 minutes daily doing a 3-2-1 training routine. 0lbs-- it did no good so I have no other choice but to try and eat more and see if it works. I'm pretty new here, only lost 5lbs- we'll see what happens.

2: Gender? Wouldn't this play a role? I would think so.

3: And to be quite flip-- I'm a 39 year old mother of an 11 year old 7 year old 3 dogs and a husband who is in perfectly good shape. There is NO WAY I'm going to be able to live the rest of my life the way criminal suggests. It just ain't gonna happen. I need to lose around 30lbs yes- I want it to stay gone- yes but I'm going to have to do it in the middle of baseball games, dance, school plays, vacation and $100 worth of heartworm pills for the creatures. So- to try to pattern my life and my budget around a VLCD and loads of exercise just isn't fair to the people around me. In a nutshell, MFP was designed for people who have busy lives. Who need help but don't have the means or the want or the time to do what you're suggesting whether it works or not.

Please stop trying to convince people to take extreme measures, it's not going to do anything but cause a lot of people to lose a lot of weight quickly then turn around and have to start over a couple of years down the road-- or worse, somebody could get hurt with your advice.