Paleo Diet

Teemo

Really an all-salmon diet would probably result in improvements across the board for health markers as well, especially compared to how most people eat. I may start that one. The Grizzly Diet?

Chuckw40

What you are missing is that many people are challenging this way of thinking and believe that saturated fat is not bad for you at all. Trans fats were pushed on us by these same people claiming that they were so much more healthy than the natural alternative, saturated fat. Now they are banning the stuff left and right. All this is based on the faulty premise of the Lypid Hypothesis.

I think most of us agree that the food pyramid is dumb. But the carbophobia that is rampant right now is... it's a little out of control. Most carb-controlled diets are simply calorie restriction diets.

That is probably fine for just losing weight (fat/muscle) but carbs are not the enemy. In fact, for athletes and people looking to get into shape, carbs are invaluable.

The paleo diet isn't a carbophobic diet but it's a... something-grain-phobic diet which isn't very much better, in my opinion. If it is working for you, then by all means, stick with it... but there's very little proof by way of causation that any improvements in your health are due to the elimination of grains from your diet. Unless you have gluten allergies, any results you get on the paleo diet can be replicated easily without the wholesale omission of an entire food group.

Which was my original point.

Carbs are not the enemy, an abundance of them is. Most of us are not elite athletes and therefore can't use all the carbs we are ingesting. This leads to us getting fat.

Teemo

Carbs are not the enemy, an abundance of them is. Most of us are not elite athletes and therefore can't use all the carbs we are ingesting. This leads to us getting fat.

I don't even agree with that premise. An abundance of calories will make you fat and cause you to gain weight. Nutritional values aside, 2,000 calories of carbs vs. 2,000 calories of fat vs. 2,000 calories of protein should not have any difference in your bodyweight.

Body composition may be a different issue, but that's more due to the lack of protein in the other two diets.

'course, I would never suggest that and I think a 35/35/30 or a 40/40/20 diet is fine.

Chuckw40

Carbs are not the enemy, an abundance of them is. Most of us are not elite athletes and therefore can't use all the carbs we are ingesting. This leads to us getting fat.

I don't even agree with that premise. An abundance of calories will make you fat and cause you to gain weight. Nutritional values aside, 2,000 calories of carbs vs. 2,000 calories of fat vs. 2,000 calories of protein should not have any difference in your bodyweight.

Body composition may be a different issue, but that's more due to the lack of protein in the other two diets.

'course, I would never suggest that and I think a 35/35/30 or a 40/40/20 diet is fine.

Changing my reply because to be honest, i am no scientist so i can't be sure of any of this. i can just tell you what I believe and that is that getting a large portion of your calories from carbs is a bad thing.

Teemo

I would disagree entirely. In your scenario the person eating the high carbs would definately gain more weight.

Oh, you edited your post. I was going to post a scathing reply! And I still disagree.

Chuckw40

I would disagree entirely. In your scenario the person eating the high carbs would definately gain more weight.

Oh, you edited your post. I was going to post a scathing reply! And I still disagree.

Changed it again on you

Delaina1

Here is a link to a great Paleo cook book! It kind of explains everything!

<a href="http://54fd1agad42w4q2ewq0yk76iet.hop.clickbank.net/&quot; target="_top">Click Here!</a>

Teemo

Changing my reply because to be honest, i am no scientist so i can't be sure of any of this. i can just tell you what I believe and that is that getting a large portion of your calories from carbs is a bad thing.

Nutritionally you are absolutely correct... but you would be just as correct to say that getting a significant portion of your calories from any of the other macronutrient groups is ALSO bad or AS bad.

One of the problems would be the absence of proteins, which your body does need. And healthy fats, which your body also needs. The effect on WEIGHT however, should be negligible if not identical. Excess carbs do not get transformed to fat... though there are other mechanisms in play and the presence of the carbs may blunt fat oxidation. By the same token, the dreaded "insulin spike" will almost never be an issue when it comes to weight gain.

Truth be told, it's not a fully fleshed out subject. But most of these things aren't... I can only say the current scare over carbs isn't really supported scientifically. As a practical matter for us dieters, cutting out or reducing carbs is a pretty easy thing to keep in mind... especially because you're far more likely to come across a deceptively BAD (nutritionally) carb source than you are a bad protein or fat source.

Is that a whole grain bagel? Is that an enriched flour bagel? Is that a sourdough bagel? Is that bagel made with butter and oil? And so on...

Chuckw40

Changing my reply because to be honest, i am no scientist so i can't be sure of any of this. i can just tell you what I believe and that is that getting a large portion of your calories from carbs is a bad thing.

Nutritionally you are absolutely correct... but you would be just as correct to say that getting a significant portion of your calories from any of the other macronutrient groups is ALSO bad or AS bad.

One of the problems would be the absence of proteins, which your body does need. And healthy fats, which your body also needs. The effect on WEIGHT however, should be negligible if not identical. Excess carbs do not get transformed to fat... though there are other mechanisms in play and the presence of the carbs may blunt fat oxidation. By the same token, the dreaded "insulin spike" will almost never be an issue when it comes to weight gain.

Truth be told, it's not a fully fleshed out subject. But most of these things aren't... I can only say the current scare over carbs isn't really supported scientifically. As a practical matter for us dieters, cutting out or reducing carbs is a pretty easy thing to keep in mind... especially because you're far more likely to come across a deceptively BAD (nutritionally) carb source than you are a bad protein or fat source.

Is that a whole grain bagel? Is that an enriched flour bagel? Is that a sourdough bagel? Is that bagel made with butter and oil? And so on...

See what you are saying about carbs not getting transformed to fat goes against all the research I have been doing.

Teemo

See what you are saying about carbs not getting transformed to fat goes against all the research I have been doing.

Point me in the direction you've been looking! I may be wrong.

Chuckw40

See what you are saying about carbs not getting transformed to fat goes against all the research I have been doing.

Point me in the direction you've been looking! I may be wrong.

Here is one example: Taken from http://www.carbrotationdiet.com/carbs-make-you-fat.htm

1. Your body can store all carbs as fat when the muscles and the liver are already full of glycogen. So if you continuously eat a high carbohydrate diet this can lead to increased fat storage. Also, you can store more of your carb calories as fat when you eat too many processed and refined carbs. The key is to consume moderate carbs and choose carbs that have at least 2gms of fiber per serving. This will help control insulin spikes, which leads us to number 2.

Delaina1

I gave the wrong link! This is the link to the cookbook! I love it and it has changed my mind about what is "healthy" and "normal."

http://39c5f-pejdw9drfopg3xs8-q1s.hop.clickbank.net/

Chuckw40

Here is another: Taken from http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2007/04/24/5143/why-eating-too-many-carbs-makes-you-fat/
Barry Groves, PhD
Apr 24, 2007

Carbs and carbs alone, not fat, increase body weight. It doesn't matter whether the carbs are from sugar, bread, fruit, or vegetables: They’re all rapidly digested and quickly converted to blood glucose. A short time after a carb-rich meal, the glucose in your bloodstream rises rapidly, and your pancreas produces a large amount of insulin to take the excess glucose out.

Just as eating fat doesn’t raise blood glucose, it doesn't raise insulin levels either. This is important because insulin is the hormone responsible for body fat storage. Because fats do not elicit an insulin response, they cannot be stored as body fat.

RhonndaJ

I have to say that this has been a very interesting read, though I'm back with my original question on the whole eating like a caveman thing, and that is, how on earth do we know what they ate. Like anything related to archaeology, it's all guesswork based on limited clues.

Personally I'm of the belief that you should simply eat as fresh and unprocessed as you can, and listen to your body. It will tell you what works for you and what doesn't. Some people can handle grains, some people can't, same with dairy, same with meat, etc. Which is what I am ... finally... putting into practice, slowly.

Just my .02

Teemo

Skimmed, but this is from a keto site (and they ARE carbophobic lol):

http://www.ketotic.org/2011/04/extra-glycogen-de-novo-lipogenesis-and.html

Regarding whether or not excess carbohydrates turn to fat: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981

Here is one example: Taken from http://www.carbrotationdiet.com/carbs-make-you-fat.htm

1. Your body can store all carbs as fat when the muscles and the liver are already full of glycogen. So if you continuously eat a high carbohydrate diet this can lead to increased fat storage. Also, you can store more of your carb calories as fat when you eat too many processed and refined carbs. The key is to consume moderate carbs and choose carbs that have at least 2gms of fiber per serving. This will help control insulin spikes, which leads us to number 2.

Glycogen loading does occur, but... not on any regular diet. There is a study whose name escapes me but deals with glycogen loading and you'd be looking at a caloric excess of 3,000-4,000 calories before that becomes and issue.

May also consider researching the Okinawan Diet --- which I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND -- but it may shed some light on our question.

Teemo

Regarding the effects on insulin and fat loss:

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

Chuckw40

Skimmed, but this is from a keto site (and they ARE carbophobic lol):

http://www.ketotic.org/2011/04/extra-glycogen-de-novo-lipogenesis-and.html

Regarding whether or not excess carbohydrates turn to fat: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981

Here is one example: Taken from http://www.carbrotationdiet.com/carbs-make-you-fat.htm

1. Your body can store all carbs as fat when the muscles and the liver are already full of glycogen. So if you continuously eat a high carbohydrate diet this can lead to increased fat storage. Also, you can store more of your carb calories as fat when you eat too many processed and refined carbs. The key is to consume moderate carbs and choose carbs that have at least 2gms of fiber per serving. This will help control insulin spikes, which leads us to number 2.

Glycogen loading does occur, but... not on any regular diet. There is a study whose name escapes me but deals with glycogen loading and you'd be looking at a caloric excess of 3,000-4,000 calories before that becomes and issue.

May also consider researching the Okinawan Diet --- which I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND -- but it may shed some light on our question.

I think it is funny that you posted that link since the author is clearly saying that the study was anything but conclusive and openly mocked it.

Teemo

I think it is funny that you posted that link since the author is clearly saying that the study was anything but conclusive and openly mocked it.

The first one? I told you, it's from a keto site. They are on a NO CARB diet (to reach ketogenesis).

hpsnickers1

Check out the book "Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It" by Gary Taubes. He is a science journalist and spent 5 years gathering research and evidence to prove what all the carbs are doing to us. He explained the science and biology that goes on inside us when we ingest carbs and fats and proteins. He explains what the cortisol does (it can do bad and good inside us). He also talks about different enzymes involved in the whole process. The book has 17 pages of sources from where he gathered his research. It's a "more readable" expansion of his book Good Calories, Bad Calories which is mostly scientific reading.

Whether you choose to believe it or not is entirely up to you. But it was very, very interesting reading that will make you think. I found it enlightening.

Chuckw40

Regarding the effects on insulin and fat loss:

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

I skimmed this and will definitely read it all later but in the first few sentences it says that carbs are broken down into glucose and allowed to enter your liver, muscles, and FAT CELLS.

So, as I thought, carbs do get stored as fat.