If what you're doing is working - ignore this.

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  • thelandofwin
    thelandofwin Posts: 79
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    I agree with most of what you said, although the research on fruit being bad is wanting. I'm never going to be 100% Paleo/primal, largely because of 3 things:
    -popcorn
    -corn tortillas
    - rice
    But I do try to limit them. I had to give up wheat and most dairy secondary to an intolerance so I'm not in a rush to toss out the rest anytime soon. However, it's probably the most successful (although perhaps the most difficult) lifestyle change one can make.

    I've read a rather insane amount of research on glucose/fructose and just didn't want to sit here and type for the next 8 hours :)

    There's a great - however, long video on fructose that is scientifically sound here: Again - listen. Some fruit when not in a big weight loss mode isn't a terrible thing! In fact, I eat some fruit - but just to be clear - I'm talking to folks who are trying to lose weight. Fruit in that case isn't helping out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

    I'm not trying to hijack your thread, but Lustig is largely concerned with table sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and fruit juice, not whole fruits. I am going to watch his whole video but from the literature it seems clear that purified fructose, not whole fruit, is the villain. I challenge anyone to get fat off of a Paleo or primal diet, both of which incorporate fruit along with the proteins, fats, and veggies. I think whole fruit can help a lot of people lose weight because it can satisfy a sweet tooth while providing filling fiber

    The medical community really doesn't have the knowledge or the right to malign fruit at this stage, just sugar and fructose isolates. Michael Pollan follows similar food rules to yours but he acknowledges we can't make blanket statement about foods based on research done on derivatives. Most anti-fruit research was done by force feeding rats a fructose drink, not by a randomized controlled trial comparing similar distributions of the population who ate/did not eat an apple or two a day.

    Otherwise, again, I think your suggestions are great but as a medical professional I can't leave the fruit point be

    An article summarizing Lustig's recs, including fruit: http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2011/03/sugar.html

    A research trial showing a positive association between fruit and weight loss:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022464
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19083413

    Thank you for posting real science! I wanted to jump in but just started this journey seriously with my trainer. I've read some of the literature but don't have the expertise yet.
  • bbush18
    bbush18 Posts: 207 Member
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    bumping this--great information!
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    I really like eating fruit. Now what? This is discouraging.

    Are you trying to lose weight? If so, try berries instead of fruit for the time being. Once you get to your goal weight add back fruit, if you start gaining weight again cut back on the fruit, until you learn where your balance is.

    Again, the problem with fruit is it is calorie dense, hince the natural sugars, and for someone tryint to lose weight it can be a negative.
  • SiltyPigeon
    SiltyPigeon Posts: 920 Member
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    I wish that I could have just a bite of a doughnut and walk away, but I can't. That bite will lead to a whole pie, a pizza, a bag of doritos and all the rest. I've stayed lean for a couple years by completely eliminating all carbs except veggies from my life.

    Believe it or not... I actually had just ONE bite of a doughnut this morning and walked away. Both of my daughters, my husband, and the little girl I'm babysitting all had doughnuts for breakfasts. I had one bite of one of theirs and am fine. Self control is a wonderful thing. The more you practice the easier it gets.

    Whatever works for YOU is what YOU should do. Thank you for offering an alternative solution that has worked for you as it may be useful to others as well. As for me, I like everything in moderation.
  • flutterqueen04
    flutterqueen04 Posts: 278
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    Although I don't think I will try this diet, I think you gave good advice. I LOVE that you clearly stated that this worked for YOU and you are just offering an option to others who have not found what works for them. So many times I get on here and see people who have a way that works for them and state it as solid fact that this way is the right way and if you are not doing it the same way they are doing it you are wrong! (I have lost 51 lbs and counting having cheat days yet according to one poster cheat days do not work and are absolutely WRONG...hmmmm :huh: )

    Anyways to each their own! And I respect totally that you found what worked for you!! Losing weight is friggin hard! :mad: If it were easy we'd all be skinny! I am also like you were I have stopped coming to the boards because I get sooooooooo tired of everyone cutting each other down. Kudos to you though for finding a way that works for you and putting out a great post about how it worked for you and if others were interested here is how to do it. That is how it should be done, not the "THIS IS HOW I DID IT THERE FORE IT IS FACT AND THE ONLY WAY THAT WORKS!" Thanks again and keep up the good work :drinker:
  • flutterqueen04
    flutterqueen04 Posts: 278
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    I really like eating fruit. Now what? This is discouraging.

    Don't be discouraged! If you like fruit and have been eating it and still losing weight then keep at it. This is just an alternative to those who are struggling. He was just giving a different diet angle. EVERY PERSON'S body is different and will react differently to things we put in our bodies. Example: Diabetics react different to sugars, I have no gallbladder therefor my body reacts differently to fat intake, etc, so you have to find what works specifically for YOUR body. Its all about finding the balance for YOU! Trust me if you try to take all the advice on these boards you will be left with being able to eat and drink NOTHING! haha.

    PEOPLE DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU! The OP said this in his original post. He was just giving an option, not saying what you absolutely have to do!
  • Chuckw40
    Chuckw40 Posts: 201
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    Why is it also that I find the people most concerned about others following their diet is the no/low carb bods?

    I actually find it to be the opposite. I have yet to see a Paleo/Adkins thread without a few people fighting tooth and nail to debunk it.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
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    Why is it also that I find the people most concerned about others following their diet is the no/low carb bods?

    I actually find it to be the opposite. I have yet to see a Paleo/Adkins thread without a few people fighting tooth and nail to debunk it.

    ^^^ what he said
  • elliecolorado
    elliecolorado Posts: 1,040
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    I'm not sure why so many people think "eating balanced" or "everything in moderation" makes so much sense. You wouldn't say that it's ok to just do a little cocaine right?

    Ok, I'll admit I didn't read this whole thread, because I got stuck on this whole cocaine analogy. What if I would say that it is ok to do a little cocaine? Then 'everything in moderation' is probably ok too. I have lost 39lbs in 2.5 months eating a 'balanced diet' and 'everything in moderation'. Personally I just can't see living off of meat and veggies for the rest of my life and it doesn't make much sense to me to make any changes that I am not going to stick with for the rest of my life.
  • Chuckw40
    Chuckw40 Posts: 201
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    I'm not sure why so many people think "eating balanced" or "everything in moderation" makes so much sense. You wouldn't say that it's ok to just do a little cocaine right?

    Ok, I'll admit I didn't read this whole thread, because I got stuck on this whole cocaine analogy. What if I would say that it is ok to do a little cocaine? Then 'everything in moderation' is probably ok too. I have lost 39lbs in 2.5 months eating a 'balanced diet' and 'everything in moderation'. Personally I just can't see living off of meat and veggies for the rest of my life and it doesn't make much sense to me to make any changes that I am not going to stick with for the rest of my life.

    Personally I am willing to give up some things in order to reach my goals. Once I am at a healthy weight I will eat the occasional piece of cake or candy. I didnt get this fat just eating candy or cake once in a while, I ate them a lot. The thing is it took me many years to put on the weight but I would prefer to take it off more quickly, hence the sacrifice of certain things for a while.
  • KickassYas
    KickassYas Posts: 397 Member
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    maybe i'm crazy but it seems certain people didn't read the title or read the complete post. he's not being opinionated. basically as a binge eater with the same disorder this is extremely good information. I have a food addiction. much like a coke addiction its almost subconscious the way i eat. sweets isn't my issue, its salt which has caused issues in other matters.

    the point is the title was IF WHAT YOU"RE DOING IS WORKING - IGNORE THIS.

    simple as that. then he talks about food addiction and in order to stop the current path you have to cut the addiction. if you want to slowly work in other foods you're welcome to it but as an addict you are risking returning to your addiction. it is a conscious choice as an addict to put yourself back into that situation.

    i have not given up fruit because i can't. i am not ready. it breaks my heart becuse it does lead to me eating more horrible things blowing my diet and continuing the yoyo pattern he speaks of.

    its all a matter of being ready to really quit the addiction.

    this post wasn't about people who are successful. its about people who are addicted and are drowning.

    and the only reason i didn't quote was because i was way to mad at being called childish that my mommy isn't here to tell me no.
  • deeharley
    deeharley Posts: 1,208 Member
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    Everyone take a step back. Go to your kitchen. Grab your candy bar and eat it. Then come back and post. Re fing lax.

    Haha - I love it.
  • ResilientWoman
    ResilientWoman Posts: 440 Member
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    I love the sound of your article. However, I despise veggies. Well most anyway. The only veggies I like are broccoli, carrots, cucumbers, and celery. That's not a lot and I don't think I could live off just those. Not too mention I'm not the biggest fan of meats. I don't like baked chicken or fish. I can stand a super small steak though once in awhile. So I'm sort of stuck at this road. I don't eat junk food very often. I don't even eat fast food very often. I don't drink sodas or binge on anything. Yet, I'm still stuck. How does someone get over the veggie and meat part if they don't like it?

    According to a friend who is diabetic, find a healthy fat you like. Stick with it. If you want to know more, follow the links from the original poster.
  • ReggaeNurse
    ReggaeNurse Posts: 140
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    I've definitely learned a lot from this post, so thanks for sharing. Before totally jumping on the bandwagon, I spent a couple days researching this info, and ultimately, it makes a lot of sense. And I am one who LOVES my carbs, fruits, grains, etc. But, like they say, knowledge is power, and with this new knowledge, I'll definitely be making some new changes in my nutrient intake. While I'm not gonna just up and quit my carb/sugar habit cold turkey, I definitely will be reducing them until they're minimal, while increasing my fats (fats are not evil)....my protein is already at a good level. The problem in the American diet is not just fats, although mainstream media will have you believe that low-fat/low-cholesterol is the answer to our obesity problem....the the problem is the HIGH intake of a combination of things, including fats, sugar, refined carbs, sodium, and a milieu of unnatural chemicals found in processed foods (if you can't pronounce it, you probably shouldn't be eating it)....and don't forget a sedentary lifestyle. All of these things in high quantities lead to obesity, high cholesterol, heart disease, diabetes, etc. I'm sure you've all seen the documentary "Super-Size Me", so I won't expand too much, but I'm sure you get my point.

    For all you non-believers, there's a ton of information that supports the OP's information, and a ton that supports an alternative...my point is, do your own research, see what works for you, and take it from there. Everyone's body type is different, and our body reacts to certain foods differently, so while there is no cookie-cutter theory on how to lose weight, but cutting back on your sugar/carb & processed food intake isn't a step in the wrong direction. Try your hand in eating whole, natural foods, and I'm pretty sure your results will be to your liking (inside & out). It's not just about counting calories or portion sizes, it's also about the quality and wholeness of the foods that you feed to your body. Your body is like a luxury car...which would it perform best on...high-grade premium fuel, or the low-grade fuel full of additives, chemicals, and other wastes? In the end it's your body and you're decision...chose wisely what works for you.

    Sidenote: skinny people suffer from high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, cancer etc. too...trust me, I've had many skinny patients who were plagued with illnesses...but in my opinion, quality & wholeness definitely goes a long way in maintaining optimal health & weight.
  • Scott613
    Scott613 Posts: 2,317 Member
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    bump
  • nyctraveler
    nyctraveler Posts: 305 Member
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    Bump
  • Pam3
    Pam3 Posts: 1,687 Member
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    bump
  • rgoodearl
    rgoodearl Posts: 360 Member
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    I have found this post and the responses to be very interesting.

    From my prespective and experience, this is what has worked for me...Michis ladder, portion control and exercise.

    Since April 4, 2010, when I decided to make some serious changes with my lifestyle.

    I eat some fruit...not a bunch, but some fruit.

    What I do seems to be working, but I could not ignore the reading the post and all the responses :wink:
  • katschi
    katschi Posts: 689 Member
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    I think it takes a lot of self-discipline to abstain from something you know is a problem for you.
    Doesn't seem childish to me at all.
    Seems rather adult.
  • writtenINthestars
    writtenINthestars Posts: 1,933 Member
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    "To be brutally honest, I find it childish that you can't control yourself" ( Or something like that.) Well that's a bit of a silly statement....because it takes a lot of control for anyone to realize foods that they know will tempt them to binge and cut them out completely.


    If YOU can't handle not being able to have some of something that's probably not of any value for your body, then don't do this diet. The OP didn't say "hey..what you are doing ISN"T working, so do this!"....he said "if what you are doing isn't working, you may want to look into this, it worked for me!"

    I don't understand why there is such an issue on these boards with Paleo....and somehow it is a "fad" diet....

    So frustrating...

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