Paleo, anyone?
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The implication is we HAVE to eat this way if we want to achieve optimal health. I know no one is holding a gun up to my head and saying, "eat paleo." When I say "HAVE" I mean in terms of being as healthy as possible. Figured that was obvious...Now you’re grasping at straws, no one said anyone HAD to eat this way, we have only asserted that we believe this to be the optimal diet for most people, nothing more or less.
Yes, now you got it. That is what we are saying, here let me state it as plain as I can. I believe on the evidence I have read and I have experienced, that most people will realize optimal health on the Paleo/Primal style diet. I believe your diet may be working for you, but if you switched to “my” diet you would realize even better results in health.0 -
Like the atomic bomb?
I have no idea what you're trying to say or imply with that remark. The atomic bomb as a technological achievement was tremendous. That it resulted in the unfortunate loss of life and an age of finger-on-the-button nuclear deterrence doesn't undercut that.
Even with correlational pseduo-science you don't get to pick and choose to that extent... Unless you're disputing that people are smarter and healthier in agrarian societies than they were when hunting and gathering. Yes, the nuclear bomb was developed in an agrarian society. So was the iPad. Yes, Hitler was raised in an agrarian society. So was Mother Theresa. You don't get to use evolution as a reason to eat paleo and then blame the nuclear bomb on grains because evolution doesn't actually support eating paleo.
I picked the iPad, btw, because it is a distinctly hipster device. :laugh:
Edit:
And I wasn't referring to you, freerange, more the guy who said that evolution meant eating paleo was supported by science.0 -
Cite that evidence.Yes, now you got it. That is what we are saying, here let me state it as plain as I can. I believe on the evidence I have read and I have experienced, that most people will realize optimal health on the Paleo/Primal style diet. I believe your diet may be working for you, but if you switched to “my” diet you would realize even better results in health.0 -
You could smoke a pack of cigarettes and take 5 hard hits to the head, and paleo would cancel the negative effects of both. Because, people who eat paleo cure cancer and Parkinson's. Just something to consider!In the interest of full disclosure I am currently eating a dinner that is mostly paleo :happy:
Are you saying diet has no affect on cancer or Parkinson's?0 -
I don't get it, does that mean being a hipster is bad? People have accused me of being a hipster, but I'm not one. No V-necks + no skinny jeans = impossible to be hipster.I picked the iPad, btw, because it is a distinctly hipster device. :laugh:
Furthermore I'll need to see some empirical evidence that proves the iPad is a distinctly hipster device.0 -
Cite that evidence.Yes, now you got it. That is what we are saying, here let me state it as plain as I can. I believe on the evidence I have read and I have experienced, that most people will realize optimal health on the Paleo/Primal style diet. I believe your diet may be working for you, but if you switched to “my” diet you would realize even better results in health.
Already have, if you choose not to believe it that is your choice.0 -
Diet plays a role in most everything. I am saying that Wolf implying that paleo can *cure* Parkinson's is laughable. It's downright hilarious. This coming from someone who is going to make a career in a field of neuroscience, probably behavioral neuroscience.Are you saying diet has no affect on cancer or Parkinson's?0 -
This thread is getting insane...0 -
Do you understand why the evidence you have provided is insufficient to reach conclusions, then?Already have, if you choose not to believe it that is your choice.0 -
I don't get it, does that mean being a hipster is bad? People have accused me of being a hipster, but I'm not one. No V-necks + no skinny jeans = impossible to be hipster.
Furthermore I'll need to see some empirical evidence that proves the iPad is a distinctly hipster device.
I saw two guys with iPads and they were hipsters. Draw your own conclusions.Are you saying diet has no affect on cancer or Parkinson's?
I haven't seen a study saying that consuming grains lead to an increased risk of Parkinsons, though an increase in the consumption of animal fats has been cited as leading to a five-fold increase in the likelihood of PD.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410390113/abstract
That doesn't sound good for paleo. Or my diet, haha. :laugh:0 -
Like the atomic bomb?
I have no idea what you're trying to say or imply with that remark. The atomic bomb as a technological achievement was tremendous. That it resulted in the unfortunate loss of life and an age of finger-on-the-button nuclear deterrence doesn't undercut that.
Even with correlational pseduo-science you don't get to pick and choose to that extent... Unless you're disputing that people are smarter and healthier in agrarian societies than they were when hunting and gathering. Yes, the nuclear bomb was developed in an agrarian society. So was the iPad. Yes, Hitler was raised in an agrarian society. So was Mother Theresa. You don't get to use evolution as a reason to eat paleo and then blame the nuclear bomb on grains because evolution doesn't actually support eating paleo.
I picked the iPad, btw, because it is a distinctly hipster device. :laugh:
Edit:
And I wasn't referring to you, freerange, more the guy who said that evolution meant eating paleo was supported by science.
You need to stop eating grains, it’s interfering with your ability to remember what you wrote. You wrote;"eating paleo" were marked by brutal and primitive behavior while it was during the post-agriculture evolution of agrarian societies that man made the greatest intellectual and technological leaps.
I countered with the, atomic bomb, because I consider it pretty “brutal” I thought that was obvious,
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Diet plays a role in most everything. I am saying that Wolf implying that paleo can *cure* Parkinson's is laughable. It's downright hilarious. This coming from someone who is going to make a career in a field of neuroscience, probably behavioral neuroscience.Are you saying diet has no affect on cancer or Parkinson's?
What did he base that on?0 -
You need to stop eating grains, it’s interfering with your ability to remember what you wrote. You wrote;"eating paleo" were marked by brutal and primitive behavior while it was during the post-agriculture evolution of agrarian societies that man made the greatest intellectual and technological leaps.
I countered with the, atomic bomb, because I consider it pretty “brutal” I thought that was obvious,
I am not even sure if you're serious but out of respect for some of our previous conversations I'll assume you were making a joke.0 -
Diet plays a role in most everything. I am saying that Wolf implying that paleo can *cure* Parkinson's is laughable. It's downright hilarious. This coming from someone who is going to make a career in a field of neuroscience, probably behavioral neuroscience.Are you saying diet has no affect on cancer or Parkinson's?
Kind of contradicting yourself there aren't you? First you say “diet plays a role in everything” then you say that claiming diet can cure Parkinson’s is laughable???? I don’t understand?0 -
I like you. You're invited to my birthday party. Superhero theme.I saw two guys with iPads and they were hipsters. Draw your own conclusions.
My general vegetarian-based diet reigns supreme! Muahaha.I haven't seen a study saying that consuming grains lead to an increased risk of Parkinsons, though an increase in the consumption of animal fats has been cited as leading to a five-fold increase in the likelihood of PD.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410390113/abstract
That doesn't sound good for paleo. Or my diet, haha. :laugh:
A single case study.What did he base that on?0 -
No, not really. Cigarettes + coffee are correlated to preventing Parkinson's, for example. For the sake of illustration, let's pretend that's true. Let's pretend cigarettes prevent Parkinson's.Kind of contradicting yourself there aren't you? First you say “diet plays a role in everything” then you say that claiming diet can cure Parkinson’s is laughable???? I don’t understand?
Do you think prevention = cure?
Furthermore, just because diet plays a role in everything doesn't mean GRAINS plays a role in everything, or any specific aspect of diet plays a role in anything.0 -
You need to stop eating grains, it’s interfering with your ability to remember what you wrote. You wrote;"eating paleo" were marked by brutal and primitive behavior while it was during the post-agriculture evolution of agrarian societies that man made the greatest intellectual and technological leaps.
I countered with the, atomic bomb, because I consider it pretty “brutal” I thought that was obvious,
I am not even sure if you're serious but out of respect for some of our previous conversations I'll assume you were making a joke.
Do you not consider the atomic bomb brutal?
And speaking of correlation's, isn’t that the boogyman you have been claiming we use? I want to see your scientific peer reviewed evidence that eating grains lead to all the good you claim.0 -
I like you. You're invited to my birthday party. Superhero theme.I saw two guys with iPads and they were hipsters. Draw your own conclusions.
My general vegetarian-based diet reigns supreme! Muahaha.I haven't seen a study saying that consuming grains lead to an increased risk of Parkinsons, though an increase in the consumption of animal fats has been cited as leading to a five-fold increase in the likelihood of PD.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.410390113/abstract
That doesn't sound good for paleo. Or my diet, haha. :laugh:
A single case study.What did he base that on?
DO you claim that single case study was a lie?0 -
I never saw the official case study.DO you claim that single case study was a lie?
An intentional lie? No. Is it possible that the diagnosis was merely off? Yeah, very possible. What measures were taken to make that diagnosis? Is it possible that a paleo diet could cure symptoms of Parkinson's? I won't rule it out. But considering I've researched the topic extensively (again, making a career in this, and patients with PD would be a major group), there's no way I can believe that a diet that merely removes grains/legumes will cure a neurodegenerative disorder for more than .0001% of the population.
Dark chocolate has neuroprotective effects. Guess how useful it is once the neurodegeneration has already started?0 -
Do you not consider the atomic bomb brutal?
Sure. If you weren't joking, you apparently read my post and completely ignored the context (i.e., evolution intellectually). You also must have missed that it was poking fun at the ridiculousness of using evolutionary markers to support paleo. [Which is something you haven't done so, again, it wasn't really directed at you.]And speaking of correlation's, isn’t that the boogyman you have been claiming we use?
Isn't "what" the boogeyman?I want to see your scientific peer reviewed evidence that eating grains lead to all the good you claim.
See my above post on burden of proof. And if you're referring to scientific evidence that eating grain leads to superior intellectual evolution... I'll simply point to... me! Or you! See? Indisputable scientific proof that eating grain is superior. Guess who ATE grains? Einstein (during his brilliant years before he had a crisis of conscience, lol). The people who built the pyramids. Mozart. Bobby Fischer. Probably everyone during the Renaissance.
Guess who DIDN'T eat grains? Some caveman guy who didn't leave any lasting mark on history.
So there you go. People ate grains and invented the computer and the theory of Relativity and b uilt structures that have lasted thousands of years and composed music to bring tears to the stoniest of hearts and created fantastic chess masterpieces and paintings.
People didn't eat grains and got killed by sabretooth tigers.
...
Anyway, before you write a serious response please note that none of that last paragraph was intended to be serious.0 -
No, not really. Cigarettes + coffee are correlated to preventing Parkinson's, for example. For the sake of illustration, let's pretend that's true. Let's pretend cigarettes prevent Parkinson's.Kind of contradicting yourself there aren't you? First you say “diet plays a role in everything” then you say that claiming diet can cure Parkinson’s is laughable???? I don’t understand?
Do you think prevention = cure?
Furthermore, just because diet plays a role in everything doesn't mean GRAINS plays a role in everything, or any specific aspect of diet plays a role in anything.
Strictly speaking, no, prevention and cure are not the same. Cure only happens after you have contracted something.0 -
Precisely. Saying that a certain diet prevents Parkinson's is a billion times different than saying it cures Parkinson's given the nature of a neurodegenerative disease.Strictly speaking, no, prevention and cure are not the same. Cure only happens after you have contracted something.
Nutrition has a role in lots of things, and just because it may have a role in the prevention of something (like dark chocolate) does not mean it has a role in curing something once it's already there.0 -
I never saw the official case study.DO you claim that single case study was a lie?
An intentional lie? No. Is it possible that the diagnosis was merely off? Yeah, very possible. What measures were taken to make that diagnosis? Is it possible that a paleo diet could cure symptoms of Parkinson's? I won't rule it out. But considering I've researched the topic extensively (again, making a career in this, and patients with PD would be a major group), there's no way I can believe that a diet that merely removes grains/legumes will cure a neurodegenerative disorder for more than .0001% of the population.
Dark chocolate has neuroprotective effects. Guess how useful it is once the neurodegeneration has already started?
You wouldn’t rule it out? But it’s laughable when Wolff said it? I don’t know what Wolff said or didn’t, I’m not familiar with the article you are referring to. But I will go with what you have said, if he said it “cures” Parkinson I have to be skeptical too, but if he said something along the lines of, based on this one study the paleo diet shows promise to reduce, eliminate or slow PD, well that would be different than what you have lead us to believe. And I would be inclined to go along with it.0 -
And speaking of correlation's, isn’t that the boogyman you have been claiming we use?
Isn't "what" the boogeyman?
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Correlations. All the "evidence" you provided is not based in any scientific study, only correlation, people ate grains while this happened, so, if I can't say people didn't eat grains and this happened, you can't do the reverse,,,,,, right?0 -
It's laughable based on the fact that he implied that conclusion due to a single case study and nothing more. THAT is what's laughable.You wouldn’t rule it out? But it’s laughable when Wolff said it? I don’t know what Wolff said or didn’t, I’m not familiar with the article you are referring to. But I will go with what you have said, if he said it “cures” Parkinson I have to be skeptical too, but if he said something along the lines of, based on this one study the paleo diet shows promise to reduce, eliminate or slow PD, well that would be different than what you have lead us to believe. And I would be inclined to go along with it.
He didn't outright say it will cure PD, if I remember correctly (this is from a video presentation where he was giving a lecture to a class). But he made some serious, serious implications that made my neuroscience major tingle.
Eliminating PD would mean curing. The semantics don't hide the fact that they are the same conclusion. I'd find it laughable even if he said it shows promise to reduce or slow PD, as slowing a neurodegenerative disease is also extremely difficult and often unsuccessful. Especially when he's basing it all on a single case study.0 -
Correlations. All the "evidence" you provided is not based in any scientific study, only correlation, people ate grains while this happened, so, if I can't say people didn't eat grains and this happened, you can't do the reverse,,,,,, right?
Oh, yeah. Correlations are nonsense and have no place in debate about science support for paleo OR non-paleo.
But my post was made in response to someone who used correlations to support paleo and not meant to be taken seriously. It was a joke because of how ridiculous correlations can be.
Edit: Or rather, correlations have their place but should never be cited for definitive cause-effect.0 -
He didn't outright say it will cure PD, if I remember correctly (this is from a video presentation where he was giving a lecture to a class). But he made some serious, serious implications that made my neuroscience major tingle.
Well, that is different than you have been saying,,,,,,, and who has been calling to the facts and only the facts? LOL
I understand you are skeptical, and with your background I understand, but there was a time when it was just as laughable that scurvy was caused by diet, that low pregancy rates by rich Japanese was do to polished rice, that,,,,,, well you get the idea. I read a story by a MD, (I think he was a MD, maybe a chiropractor) that had type 1 diabetes, and after going Primal as able to “cure” himself, yes N=1, but in his case, as reported by him, it worked, laughable, I wouldn’t say so.0 -
Did I say that Wolf outwardly claimed it cured PD? I think initially I stated that it was an implication, and after that I was being facetious (like with the cigarette + hitting head comment). Shrug.Well, that is different than you have been saying,,,,,,, and who has been calling to the facts and only the facts? LOL
I understand you are skeptical, and with your background I understand, but there was a time when it was just as laughable that scurvy was caused by diet, that low pregancy rates by rich Japanese was do to polished rice, that,,,,,, well you get the idea. I read a story by a MD, (I think he was a MD, maybe a chiropractor) that had type 1 diabetes, and after going Primal as able to “cure” himself, yes N=1, but in his case, as reported by him, it worked, laughable, I wouldn’t say so.
A neurodegenerative disease is different from diabetes or scurvy, though. That's kind of the thing. To imply you can cure diabetes is different from curing a neurodegenerative disease once the degenerating process is initiated.0 -
Correlations. All the "evidence" you provided is not based in any scientific study, only correlation, people ate grains while this happened, so, if I can't say people didn't eat grains and this happened, you can't do the reverse,,,,,, right?
Oh, yeah. Correlations are nonsense and have no place in debate about science support for paleo OR non-paleo.
But my post was made in response to someone who used correlations to support paleo and not meant to be taken seriously. It was a joke because of how ridiculous correlations can be.
Edit: Or rather, correlations have their place but should never be cited for definitive cause-effect.
You and untz made it a scientific “method” debate, not us. Correlation is science, it’s used all the time to develop theory and hypothesis, and when you add up all the “evidence” it makes sense to many of us.
It’s been fun, got yo hit the sack so I can get up early and eat meat and eggs for breakfast.0 -
You and untz made it a scientific “method” debate, not us. Correlation is science, it’s used all the time to develop theory and hypothesis, and when you add up all the “evidence” it makes sense to many of us.
It’s been fun, got yo hit the sack so I can get up early and eat meat and eggs for breakfast.
I try to stay out of paleo threads now but I read the post about how evolution means eating paleo is better than eating grains and I couldn't resist.
'night, enjoy your breakfast! Eggs = delicious.0
This discussion has been closed.
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