I do DVDs so I don't need to strength train

stroutman81

I'm involved in an email exchange right now and while rambling off a response, I thought it might actually initiate some interesting conversation here on the forum. I modified it slightly. Here goes...

***************

The bottom line about changing our bodies is there are 2 factors that are in our control. We can lose fat and we can gain muscle. We can't get longer as our muscle are attached to our skeletons. We can't tone specific areas of our bodies as a muscle either grows or it doesn't and subcutaneous fat rests on top of our muscles.

In order for most people to achieve the body they desire, they need to accomplish both... meaning they need to maximize fat loss and muscle gain or maintenance.

Cardio, conditioning, energy system training, circuit training, most exercise DVDs, etc... these things are all good for helping fat loss. They're high volume and thus energy expensive... they'll help you get into that energy deficit that's required for tissue loss. Keep in mind though that simply because you're doing resistance exercises such as squats, deadlifts, presses, rows, or whatever... it doesn't necessarily mean you're forcing your body to maximize muscle mass. The exercise is pretty irrelevant actually... your body doesn't know you're doing a squat. It simply knows it needs to "turn certain muscles on" in a coordinated fashion to move a certain way. And that if that movement is done under a significant enough of a load, it should probably do some "remodeling" so that it can better handle that load in the future.

You can do squats with your body weight or while holding pink dumbbells until you're ready to pass out, but unless you're brand spanking new to this stuff, that's probably not going to overload your muscles and cause them to maintain while dieting or to grow.

Building or even maintaining muscle seems to be the elusive variable for most people. They're too busy worrying about whether they're smaller or lighter and wind up forgetting that looking great nekkid is about much more than size and weight. To optimize muscle, you need to move heavy stuff... picking it up and putting it back down. Period.

That's not to say avoiding strength training will lead to zero progress. Anyone can lose weight as long as they're in a calorie deficit. I can assure you though that leaving this variable out of the equation will lead to suboptimal body composition. If you're genetically blessed... this might not be a big issue. By and large though... it's going to be significant for most people.

therobinator

"I lift things up and put them down."

Somebody had to say it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FGZvFZdVbk

TeaBea

One word ............Cathe!

swanny320

I always have difficulty knowing just how heavy my weights should be when I do strength training. Do I make them so heavy that I struggle to even lift?

kristy_estes21

I always have difficulty knowing just how heavy my weights should be when I do strength training. Do I make them so heavy that I struggle to even lift?

Your last few reps of the set should be a struggle, yes. When I lift, I do 4 sets of 12-15 reps and lift to failure. (I'm sure you were asking him, but thought I'd throw in my two cents. lol)

End6ame

Great post, nice to see someone else preaching it for a change.

I always have difficulty knowing just how heavy my weights should be when I do strength training. Do I make them so heavy that I struggle to even lift?

You should pick a weight that you can lift between 1 and 5 (max of 8) times. Ideally this should be 75%+ of your one rep max. Lifting for 6-12 reps actually starts to get into building more size then strength. And higher is focused on muscular endurance.

I have an article here that i wrote on the subject. I am an advocate of low rep/high intensity training.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Grglandr/view/weight-training-guide-116508

Sassy_Cass

Agreed. So many people are concerned about the number that they forget about the look. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE LOOK! Nobody is happen being skinny fat so gain muscle, stop focusing on the number and start focusing on the reflection!

Weight lifting should be done so that you can do one or two sets with 8-12 reps (at least this is what my trainer and brother say). So pump it up and start loving what you see

rachmaree

Always enjoy your posts, Steve! Once again, great info and so well written. Thanks for taking the time to put it in the forums.

stroutman81

I always have difficulty knowing just how heavy my weights should be when I do strength training. Do I make them so heavy that I struggle to even lift?

Strength training is tough. It's not supposed to feel light and easy. That light and easy feeling is reserved for metabolic conditioning such as cardio or circuit training. People often get tripped up gauging the efficacy of their exercise on how it feels. Unfortunately, very few of them understand how it's supposed to feel.

How heavy should you go though? That's a good question. Here's what we know...

We know that when we attempt to move a barbell, our nervous systems tell our muscles to generate force by shortening. It tells our muscles to get busy via electrical impulses that travel down from the brain, down the spinal cord and through the nerves that are connected to your muscles. A bunch of biochemistry happens at this point with the end product being muscular contraction. The greater the weight on the barbell, the greater the force that needs to be applied to it if it’s to move.

Just as with everything else, for adaptation/improvement to occur, you need to overload the system in question. In this case we’re talking about the neuromuscular system. Your nervous system and the muscles that it’s attached to all respond to progressive strength training as long as sufficient tension is generated.

Graphically it we can present this like:

http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/stroutman81/Training/?action=view&current=Tension-TimeGraph.jpg

Did you actually check out the link? If not, be sure to do so so that you understand what I'm about to say. It's important.

Anything above the threshold line represents an overload. You can think of the area under the curves and above the threshold line as the magnitude of stress that represents overload. The higher the tension that’s required in a given effort, the shorter that effort will last, which should be obvious. If I asked you to bench press 250 lbs you might get 1 repetition that lasts 3-5 seconds (curve 1). If I asked you to bench 200 lbs you might get 8 repetitions that takes you 40-60 seconds (curve 2).

As you can see, you can have a tall and thin stimulus for improvement (curve 1) or a short and wide stimulus for improvement (curve 2). There are multiple ways of generating an overload, which is why a “magical” set and rep combination doesn’t exist.

We measure force in pounds and define it as intensity. Intensity is the proximity of the weight being lifted to your maximum ability. In the above example, 250 lbs would be your maximum effort or 100% intensity. 200 lbs is 80% of 250 so it is 80% intensity.

The threshold of intensity that’s required for adaptation to take place is roughly 65%-70% on average. Anything above that will “work.” It’s also important to note that as the lifter becomes more advanced, the higher this threshold will be. In other words, the threshold itself adapts to training.

As an example of how you can use this model to think about training, let’s look at circuit training. Circuit training typically involves using a high volume of exercise with little rest between movements and high reps. This can build muscular endurance, improve cardiovascular conditioning, and increase mental toughness. But feeling the burn is not a prerequisite for strength gain. In circuit training, due to the lack of rest between sets, fatigue interferes with the ability to lift weight. This in turn reduces the tension at the muscle level thus providing less of a signal for strength gain. In other words, if we were to draw a curve for circuit training on the above graph, even at its peak it would be below the threshold line.

And no, I don't recommend training to failure. Within the 12 to 15 rep range, failure is predominantly a neurological phenomenon and it's not doing much at the local, muscle level. The risk/reward to training to failure simply isn't there.

I'm sure some of you want more applicable information than the above... so here goes.

With my clients I simply set a target rep range and let them know how it should "feel." Generally speaking, reps dictate weight as higher rep ranges require the use of lighter weights and lower rep ranges allow for more weight to be used. Granted, I could set the rep range at 8-12 and you could select a weight that you could easily do 30+ reps with, but stop at 8-12, but that would disregard the whole "how it should feel" qualifier.

So how should it feel?

You want to be using loads that feel heavy, but not so heavy that you're having to "grind" the weight up. By grind, I mean the weight goes up at a snail's pace as you shake and struggle to move the bar or dumbbell each and every inch. If I subscribe 8 reps for instance, I expect my clients to use a weight that has them reaching 8 reps with 1.. maybe 2 reps left in the tank.

I also like to use RPE (rating of perceived exertion) which I feel helps solidify how a weight should feel and thus what weight you should use. I like Mike Tuchscherer's scale the best which looks something like:

• 7: Maximal, no reps left in the tank at end of set
• 6: Last rep is tough but still one rep left in the tank
• 5: Weight is too heavy to maintain fast bar speed but isn’t a struggle; 2–4 reps left
• 4: Weight moves quickly when maximal force is applied to the weight; “speed weight”
• 3: Light speed work; moves quickly with moderate force
• 2: Most warm-up weights
• 1: Recovery; usually 20 plus rep sets; not hard but intended to flush the muscle

Most work as far as strength training goes should fall somewhere around a 5-6. Hopefully this helps?

The deal is though, don't worry about picking the "perfect" weight originally. PIck logical rep ranges... I'd say anywhere from 4-12 per set... and start with weights that are extremely easy. This will allow for perfect form. Once you're more than comfortable with form, as this is a critical component of effective training, then start slowly adding weight to each movement over time. Remember, it's not just using a weight that's "heavy enough." It's staying ahead of your body's homeostasis threshold. If you're using weights that your body doesn't "see" as a challenge to it's current condition, it's not going to change. So I'd argue that it's the progression that's more important than the load you're using at this moment.

So start light (relative to the reps you're shooting for) and progress from there.

MB_Positif

Great post! There was one earlier about someone not wanting to bulk up so they didn't want to strength train. I can't wait to see more muscle definition on me!! Starting to now

DianaPowerUp

I always have difficulty knowing just how heavy my weights should be when I do strength training. Do I make them so heavy that I struggle to even lift?

Strength training is tough. It's not supposed to feel light and easy. That light and easy feeling is reserved for metabolic conditioning such as cardio or circuit training. People often get tripped up gauging the efficacy of their exercise on how it feels. Unfortunately, very few of them understand how it's supposed to feel.

How heavy should you go though? That's a good question. Here's what we know...

We know that when we attempt to move a barbell, our nervous systems tell our muscles to generate force by shortening. It tells our muscles to get busy via electrical impulses that travel down from the brain, down the spinal cord and through the nerves that are connected to your muscles. A bunch of biochemistry happens at this point with the end product being muscular contraction. The greater the weight on the barbell, the greater the force that needs to be applied to it if it’s to move.

Just as with everything else, for adaptation/improvement to occur, you need to overload the system in question. In this case we’re talking about the neuromuscular system. Your nervous system and the muscles that it’s attached to all respond to progressive strength training as long as sufficient tension is generated.

Graphically it we can present this like:

http://s162.photobucket.com/albums/t264/stroutman81/Training/?action=view&current=Tension-TimeGraph.jpg

Did you actually check out the link? If not, be sure to do so so that you understand what I'm about to say. It's important.

Anything above the threshold line represents an overload. You can think of the area under the curves and above the threshold line as the magnitude of stress that represents overload. The higher the tension that’s required in a given effort, the shorter that effort will last, which should be obvious. If I asked you to bench press 250 lbs you might get 1 repetition that lasts 3-5 seconds (curve 1). If I asked you to bench 200 lbs you might get 8 repetitions that takes you 40-60 seconds (curve 2).

As you can see, you can have a tall and thin stimulus for improvement (curve 1) or a short and wide stimulus for improvement (curve 2). There are multiple ways of generating an overload, which is why a “magical” set and rep combination doesn’t exist.

We measure force in pounds and define it as intensity. Intensity is the proximity of the weight being lifted to your maximum ability. In the above example, 250 lbs would be your maximum effort or 100% intensity. 200 lbs is 80% of 250 so it is 80% intensity.

The threshold of intensity that’s required for adaptation to take place is roughly 65%-70% on average. Anything above that will “work.” It’s also important to note that as the lifter becomes more advanced, the higher this threshold will be. In other words, the threshold itself adapts to training.

As an example of how you can use this model to think about training, let’s look at circuit training. Circuit training typically involves using a high volume of exercise with little rest between movements and high reps. This can build muscular endurance, improve cardiovascular conditioning, and increase mental toughness. But feeling the burn is not a prerequisite for strength gain. In circuit training, due to the lack of rest between sets, fatigue interferes with the ability to lift weight. This in turn reduces the tension at the muscle level thus providing less of a signal for strength gain. In other words, if we were to draw a curve for circuit training on the above graph, even at its peak it would be below the threshold line.

And no, I don't recommend training to failure. Within the 12 to 15 rep range, failure is predominantly a neurological phenomenon and it's not doing much at the local, muscle level. The risk/reward to training to failure simply isn't there.

I'm sure some of you want more applicable information than the above... so here goes.

With my clients I simply set a target rep range and let them know how it should "feel." Generally speaking, reps dictate weight as higher rep ranges require the use of lighter weights and lower rep ranges allow for more weight to be used. Granted, I could set the rep range at 8-12 and you could select a weight that you could easily do 30+ reps with, but stop at 8-12, but that would disregard the whole "how it should feel" qualifier.

So how should it feel?

You want to be using loads that feel heavy, but not so heavy that you're having to "grind" the weight up. By grind, I mean the weight goes up at a snail's pace as you shake and struggle to move the bar or dumbbell each and every inch. If I subscribe 8 reps for instance, I expect my clients to use a weight that has them reaching 8 reps with 1.. maybe 2 reps left in the tank.

I also like to use RPE (rating of perceived exertion) which I feel helps solidify how a weight should feel and thus what weight you should use. I like Mike Tuchscherer's scale the best which looks something like:

• 7: Maximal, no reps left in the tank at end of set
• 6: Last rep is tough but still one rep left in the tank
• 5: Weight is too heavy to maintain fast bar speed but isn’t a struggle; 2–4 reps left
• 4: Weight moves quickly when maximal force is applied to the weight; “speed weight”
• 3: Light speed work; moves quickly with moderate force
• 2: Most warm-up weights
• 1: Recovery; usually 20 plus rep sets; not hard but intended to flush the muscle

Most work as far as strength training goes should fall somewhere around a 5-6. Hopefully this helps?

The deal is though, don't worry about picking the "perfect" weight originally. PIck logical rep ranges... I'd say anywhere from 4-12 per set... and start with weights that are extremely easy. This will allow for perfect form. Once you're more than comfortable with form, as this is a critical component of effective training, then start slowly adding weight to each movement over time. Remember, it's not just using a weight that's "heavy enough." It's staying ahead of your body's homeostasis threshold. If you're using weights that your body doesn't "see" as a challenge to it's current condition, it's not going to change. So I'd argue that it's the progression that's more important than the load you're using at this moment.

So start light (relative to the reps you're shooting for) and progress from there.

Great answer, Steve! I love reading your posts, btw. Lots of great advice!

tgh1914

Great post as usual Steve. Just one question regarding the Tuchscherer's scale. Of course what's been indoctrinated in me is that to maximize muscle building I should be aiming for the 7 on his scale. So why not the 7? Is it because you believe people are actually losing their form at that point? If what I consider a 7 is still in keeping good form, am I really cheating myself and potential growth?

stroutman81

Great post as usual Steve. Just one question regarding the Tuchscherer's scale. Of course what's been indoctrinated in me is that to maximize muscle building I should be aiming for the 7 on his scale. So why not the 7? Is it because you believe people are actually losing their form at that point? If what I consider a 7 is still in keeping good form, am I really cheating myself and potential growth?

Oh, sorry about that. Good catch. I had Mike's scale in there and then I deleted it and pasted my own scale. A 7 on my scale, the one used above, is a 10 on Mike's scale.

tgh1914

Great post as usual Steve. Just one question regarding the Tuchscherer's scale. Of course what's been indoctrinated in me is that to maximize muscle building I should be aiming for the 7 on his scale. So why not the 7? Is it because you believe people are actually losing their form at that point? If what I consider a 7 is still in keeping good form, am I really cheating myself and potential growth?

Oh, sorry about that. Good catch. I had Mike's scale in there and then I deleted it and pasted my own scale. A 7 on my scale, the one used above, is a 10 on Mike's scale.

But I guess my question still remains. Whether it's a 7 or a 10, why are we not encouraging the highest intensity possible at my 7th or 8th rep? Is it mostly cuz we're concerned that I'd be losing my form at that point?

countrygirl_717

YES YES YES!! I never looked better until I started lifting heavy! Do it people - you won't be sorry!

p.s - I did Chalean Extreme, because I have no access to a gym, I loved it!!! All you need are some dumbbells. (for me that meant 5's, 8's, 10's, 15's, 20's.) I will probably need heavier for my lower body next time around, but you'll be surprised at how quickly those 3's and 5's feel like wimpy weights!

stroutman81

Great post as usual Steve. Just one question regarding the Tuchscherer's scale. Of course what's been indoctrinated in me is that to maximize muscle building I should be aiming for the 7 on his scale. So why not the 7? Is it because you believe people are actually losing their form at that point? If what I consider a 7 is still in keeping good form, am I really cheating myself and potential growth?

Oh, sorry about that. Good catch. I had Mike's scale in there and then I deleted it and pasted my own scale. A 7 on my scale, the one used above, is a 10 on Mike's scale.

But I guess my question still remains. Whether it's a 7 or a 10, why are we not encouraging the highest intensity possible at my 7th or 8th rep? Is it mostly cuz we're concerned that I'd be losing my form at that point?

There's a lot of ways to answer your question. Actually opens up a can of worms that I'm going to try and avoid.

For the most part though, you hit the nail on the head. I don't see a reason to venture so closely to failure when you can stimulate growth at lower intensities. Remember, you need to surpass the intensity threshold and then do enough work with it. For most people, that threshold isn't going to be at a point that leaves you grinding out reps. And if they tried, they'd like reach technical failure, which isn't true muscular failure... rather it's failure to maintain proper form. Why risk executing lifts incorrectly when it's not needed? That's my general take.

That said, there are very knowledgeable coaches and perfectly fine programs out there that have lifters training up to a maximum every single day of the week.

There are definitely many ways to skin a cat.

Just know that you don't need to be crushing yourself in order to stimulate hypertrophy. Granted, the last couple of reps on the last set or two might start feeling like a 7. And that's fine. Simply use this as your governor of progression. Typically in my own personal training journal I'll record my RPE score of each set. Suppose I'm shooting for 8 sets of 3. My journal might look something like this:

Squats:

Set 1: 375 x 3 @ 5 RPE
Set 2: 375 x 3 @ 5
Set 3: 375 x 3 @ 5
Set 4: 375 x 3 @ 5
Set 5: 375 x 3 @ 6
Set 6: 375 x 3 @6
Set 7: 375 x 3 @7

At that point, I might stop the exercise and not shoot for the 8th. There's a very wise movement in the strength training community to use what's known as cybernetic training or autoregulatory training, which is what Mike Tuchscherer's book is all about. You can read about autoregulatory training in my interview with Matt Perryman here:

http://body-improvements.com/articles/interviews/matt-perryman-interview/

Essentially, I'd autoregulate the exercise, which essentially means, "I'm going to stop here because the previous set was an RPE of 7 and today I don't have another full set in me. Yesterday I might have been fine. Tomorrow I might be fine. But today is not the day."

Or I could push out the 8th set and hope to get all 3 reps. It'll undoubtedly be at least another 7.

The point is though, I use the RPE readings to monitor when it's time to adjust the load. As my body adapts to the load, hopefully, in this example, 375 will feel lighter over time. Once 8 sets of 3 feels like an RPE of 5 or even 6 straight across, I'll likely increase the load.

If I start regressing, meaning earlier sets start feeling like a 7, I'll likely change other parameters in the programming. I might deload for a week or two. I might switch out exercises.

I'm rambling a bit but does this help you out at all?

tgh1914

There's a lot of ways to answer your question. Actually opens up a can of worms that I'm going to try and avoid.

For the most part though, you hit the nail on the head. I don't see a reason to venture so closely to failure when you can stimulate growth at lower intensities. Remember, you need to surpass the intensity threshold and then do enough work with it. For most people, that threshold isn't going to be at a point that leaves you grinding out reps. And if they tried, they'd like reach technical failure, which isn't true muscular failure... rather it's failure to maintain proper form. Why risk executing lifts incorrectly when it's not needed? That's my general take.

That said, there are very knowledgeable coaches and perfectly fine programs out there that have lifters training up to a maximum every single day of the week.

There are definitely many ways to skin a cat.

Just know that you don't need to be crushing yourself in order to stimulate hypertrophy. Granted, the last couple of reps on the last set or two might start feeling like a 7. And that's fine. Simply use this as your governor of progression. Typically in my own personal training journal I'll record my RPE score of each set. Suppose I'm shooting for 8 sets of 3. My journal might look something like this:

Squats:

Set 1: 375 x 3 @ 5 RPE
Set 2: 375 x 3 @ 5
Set 3: 375 x 3 @ 5
Set 4: 375 x 3 @ 5
Set 5: 375 x 3 @ 6
Set 6: 375 x 3 @6
Set 7: 375 x 3 @7

At that point, I might stop the exercise and not shoot for the 8th. There's a very wise movement in the strength training community to use what's known as cybernetic training or autoregulatory training, which is what Mike Tuchscherer's book is all about. You can read about autoregulatory training in my interview with Matt Perryman here:

http://body-improvements.com/articles/interviews/matt-perryman-interview/

Essentially, I'd autoregulate the exercise, which essentially means, "I'm going to stop here because the previous set was an RPE of 7 and today I don't have another full set in me. Yesterday I might have been fine. Tomorrow I might be fine. But today is not the day."

Or I could push out the 8th set and hope to get all 3 reps. It'll undoubtedly be at least another 7.

The point is though, I use the RPE readings to monitor when it's time to adjust the load. As my body adapts to the load, hopefully, in this example, 375 will feel lighter over time. Once 8 sets of 3 feels like an RPE of 5 or even 6 straight across, I'll likely increase the load.

If I start regressing, meaning earlier sets start feeling like a 7, I'll likely change other parameters in the programming. I might deload for a week or two. I might switch out exercises.

I'm rambling a bit but does this help you out at all?

Yes it does. Thanks Steve.

stroutman81

Yes it does. Thanks Steve.

Missed this, but you're welcome. Anytime!

BigBoneSista

"I lift things up and put them down."

Somebody had to say it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FGZvFZdVbk

:laugh: MUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA!!!


To the OP. Your words speak truth. Though I don't lift weights at the gym I got the bowflex adjustable weights and the ChaLean Extreme dvd series. I push myself to lift heavier loads because I need to build my muscles and shrink my fat. Its definitely working. I'm seeing a big difference. Once I finish with this I hope to move on to another strength training dvd series...P90X maybe.

Are there any downfalls to these programs that I should be aware of? If I need to alter something I definitely will for better results.

stroutman81

To the OP. Your words speak truth. Though I don't lift weights at the gym I got the bowflex adjustable weights and the ChaLean Extreme dvd series.

I'm not familiar with the ChaLean DVD so I can't comment on that. But you certainly don't have to be in a gym to load your body with sufficient weight in order to drive growth and strength.

I push myself to lift heavier loads because I need to build my muscles and shrink my fat. Its definitely working. I'm seeing a big difference.

That's great. Just make sure the loads are such that they limit you to sensible rep ranges. Anything between 4-15 reps is a good general rule. Beyond that and you're really missing the mark in terms of the adaptations we're striving for. And this doesn't mean that you lift a light weight that you could do 30 reps with and stop between 4-15... as that wouldn't get you anywhere.

Once I finish with this I hope to move on to another strength training dvd series...P90X maybe.

Are there any downfalls to these programs that I should be aware of? If I need to alter something I definitely will for better results.

I don't know much about the DVDs. Someone was so interested in my opinoin about p90x that they mailed me their copy for review. The gist of my opinion was it's a lot less stupid then a lot of the stuff I see on the market. The guy is corny as heck. And they say things that aren't scientifically based. But the program makes some sense so it's not a waste of money if it's your cup of tea.

That said, I'm not really a fan of prepackaged programs. Custom tailored programming based on the individual's needs, setting, history, etc will blow the pants off of a prepackaged program any day of the week.

BigBoneSista

To the OP. Your words speak truth. Though I don't lift weights at the gym I got the bowflex adjustable weights and the ChaLean Extreme dvd series.

I'm not familiar with the ChaLean DVD so I can't comment on that. But you certainly don't have to be in a gym to load your body with sufficient weight in order to drive growth and strength.

I push myself to lift heavier loads because I need to build my muscles and shrink my fat. Its definitely working. I'm seeing a big difference.

That's great. Just make sure the loads are such that they limit you to sensible rep ranges. Anything between 4-15 reps is a good general rule. Beyond that and you're really missing the mark in terms of the adaptations we're striving for. And this doesn't mean that you lift a light weight that you could do 30 reps with and stop between 4-15... as that wouldn't get you anywhere.

Once I finish with this I hope to move on to another strength training dvd series...P90X maybe.

Are there any downfalls to these programs that I should be aware of? If I need to alter something I definitely will for better results.

I don't know much about the DVDs. Someone was so interested in my opinoin about p90x that they mailed me their copy for review. The gist of my opinion was it's a lot less stupid then a lot of the stuff I see on the market. The guy is corny as heck. And they say things that aren't scientifically based. But the program makes some sense so it's not a waste of money if it's your cup of tea.

That said, I'm not really a fan of prepackaged programs. Custom tailored programming based on the individual's needs, setting, history, etc will blow the pants off of a prepackaged program any day of the week.

I understand about the prepackage programs. I haven't check out Tony but if he is anything like Shawn T then I will probably put him on mute lol. CJ is a excellent motivator in her DVD series surprisingly. In the ChaLean Extreme dvds she has us lifting 1 set maxing out between our 10th to 12th rep. If I make it to my 12 rep the next time I do my work out I up my weights to see if I can make it to10 with my form intact. Its a lot of compound movements....rows while lunging, etc.

I appreciate your info.

stroutman81

I understand about the prepackage programs. I haven't check out Tony but if he is anything like Shawn T then I will probably put him on mute lol. CJ is a excellent motivator in her DVD series surprisingly. In the ChaLean Extreme dvds she has us lifting 1 set maxing out between our 10th to 12th rep. If I make it to my 12 rep the next time I do my work out I up my weights to see if I can make it to10 with my form intact. Its a lot of compound movements....rows while lunging, etc.

I appreciate your info.

Sounds sensible assuming they're allowing for adequate rest between sets and sane amounts of volume. Also, I don't see a point in reaching muscular failure at each set.

rachmaree

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.
Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.
For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!? Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.
I am on summer holiday at the moment (I am a teacher) which is why I have so much time to workout, but once school starts, I won't have the time and/or energy for so many workouts.
I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle? I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you in advance

jae6704

bump for reading later. I so want to strength train but I am not sure what to do

jae6704

bump for reading later. I so want to strength train but I am not sure what to do

faithfitnessandnutrition

One word ............Cathe!

hear, hear... I own Cathe's STS series and it's amazing!! complete weight lifting DVD series well worth the money. Amy Bento has another great weight lifting DVD as does Chalene Johnson's Chalene Extreme.

LimeyTart

That said, I'm not really a fan of prepackaged programs. Custom tailored programming based on the individual's needs, setting, history, etc will blow the pants off of a prepackaged program any day of the week.

My question is this - where do I start? Assume that I am totally clueless, because well, I am.

mislove68

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.
Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.
For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!? Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.
I am on summer holiday at the moment (I am a teacher) which is why I have so much time to workout, but once school starts, I won't have the time and/or energy for so many workouts.
I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle? I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you in advance

bump I want to know what Steve also thinks of your post. 50 reps on that machine sounds nuts.

kdiamond

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.
Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.
For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!? Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.
I am on summer holiday at the moment (I am a teacher) which is why I have so much time to workout, but once school starts, I won't have the time and/or energy for so many workouts.
I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle? I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you in advance

Just thought I would chime in. You said you are getting more serious with weight training (or would like to). I'll tell you right now that any trainer who recommends ANY adductor/adductor machines (let alone 50 reps, my god) has no clue what they are talking about. Those machines belong in a fitness museum...they are so useless and basically just reminders of the past. You're doing an awful lot of cardio, plus eating at a deficit? Too much. You look good now, in order to reduce body fat at the low body weight you are now you need to lift heavy, 6-8 reps at a difficult weight, and reduce the cardio. I would maybe do 2 HIIT sessions a week and keep up the weight lifting 3-5 times a week. I would recommend getting the book New Rules of Lifting for Women. It has transformed my thinking, and my body.

rachmaree

Thanks for the input Kdiamond. I keep reading that those abductor/ adductor machines are pretty useless, and 50 reps seemed ridiculous. The last gym I changed from had written me a program with 30 reps and that seemed awfully excessive at the time.
I actually ordered NROLFW to my Australian address, and hopefully mum will bring it when we meet this weekend in Italy. I feel like I probably need to cut back on the cardio... it is addictive, though, I can understand why people become hooked on doing cardio. I lift 5 days a week, and started doing more and more cardio in addition... needless to say I am pretty exhausted most of the time.
Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will cut back the cardio and try to do HIIT a couple of times instead.

stroutman81

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

Questions are always welcome. That's what this place is all about and what I'm here for.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.

Glad to hear. Also cool that the owner of your gym gets involved with his clients like that. Many gym owners are businessmen and not fitness professionals and barely tell the difference between an *kitten* and an elbow.

Granted, I know plenty of fitness owners who are supposed fitness professionals who also don't have business guiding people... but that's a different story.

Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.

Not terrible. I venture into this rep zone here and there for some of my clients. By and large, if I had to give an average rep range that I employ, it'd be closer to 5-8... sometimes even lower.

It's client dependent though. With overweight/obese clients, I'll work in more high rep stuff.

For most others though, I stick with the above rep range.

And that's for the "meat and potato" exercises such as squat variations, deadlift variations, pressing, and pulling. For example, here's the workout of a client I trained last night. She's fit for the most part and trying to get leaner. Obviously it's one part of a large puzzle... but just to give you an idea:

A1 - Barbell Squats - 3x5
A2- Single Leg DB Romanian Deadlilfts - 3x12 each leg
B1 - Cable Rows - 3x8
B2 - Single Arm DB Bench Press - 3x8
C1 - Single Leg Hip Thrust - 2x12
C2 - Rollouts - 3x10
D - Skull Crushers

The letters simply represent groupings of exercises. For example, she did A1, then with minimal rest went into A2, then rested, then start again.

The primary exercises which would be the squats, rows, and bench press were done in the 5-8 rep range. The other stuff is all accessory stuff.... it's the details on top of the foundation. For these smaller, more isolative movements, I prefer higher rep ranges.

Again, just a snapshot.

For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!?

It's hard to say without knowing his bigger picture thinking and how this fits into everything else. I can say though that typically I'd not have my clients doing 20 reps squats... especially if muscle maintenance while dieting was the goal. There are some old school bodybuilding programs that have people doing 20 rep squats and for a lot of people, they seem to work in terms of muscle growth. Some speculate that the leg muscles respond better to higher rep sets than other parts. I don' t know how accurate that is.

For me personally... I hate high rep squats. I've never had a problem putting mass on legs sticking with the lower rep ranges.

And I'd never have my clients doing the adductor and abductor machine... especially for 50 reps but also not even for lower reps. I just don't see the point. It would sound to me like he believe you can "tone" the problem areas most women tend to have... but that's just a guess. I'd ask him "why?" he's recommending these things just to make sure he does in fact know what he's talking about.

Too many folks feel comfortable taking advice from anyone who's a professional in the fitness industry when in fact most people in the fitness industry aren't fit to be giving advice. Being critical is a must if you're going to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

See above.

Put it this way... the only machine I have in my gym is a cable tower that allows for horizontal and vertical pulling. If you want to call that a machine, so be it. I'm not particularly fond of machines since they're not, generally speaking, dare I say functional. By that I mean most of them lock you into a fixed range of motion and the real world requires you to be strong in multiple planes of motion.

Rather than doing leg extensions and adductions/abductions... I'd much sooner see my clients doing barbell squats, goblet squats, front squats, conventional deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, suitcase deadlifts, step ups, alternating lunges, reverse lunges, hip thrusts, single leg squats, etc, etc.

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

Yea, that's pretty crazy. There's no magic to doing your cardio after your strength training. If you can fit your cardio into separate sessions, in fact, I'd say that'd be ideal.

And I wouldn't go doing marathon ab sessions... treat them like you would any other muscle for the most part.

And correlation does not equal causation. There are a lot of moving parts that could contribute to a leaner midsection.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.

Without getting into specifics... for my clients who are trying to get leaner, I'll typically recommend:

1-3 days of strength training. It takes less work to maintain muscle than it does to increase it. Since in order to get leaner you need to lose fat... that also means you need to be in a calorie deficit. When in a calorie deficit, it's tough to add muscle... especially if you're not fat and/or very new to this sort of training. Therefore muscle maintenance is the target. Where I might have someone training 3-5+ days per week with weights when muscle growth is the goal, 1-3 sessions per week is plenty for maintenance.

In terms of conditioning or cardio work, it really depends on teh client. I have some clients who will do none. They'll simply keep tight wraps of their nutrition ensuring they're in a calorie deficit that way. They despise cardio and know it's not necessary in order to get lean. Others enjoy it or like the added "sink" for additional calorie consumption so they add it in. How much, again, depends on the person... but on average I'd say 2-5 sessions per week ranging from 15-60 minutes per session depending on the type and intensity.

As you can tell, there is no One Right Way of going about this, but speaking generally, I find that having to go beyond this typically means a) the clients nutrition isn't on point or b) they've fallen victim to believing more is more and feel the need to beat their bodies into submission rather than coaxing the fat off with smart planning/training.

I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you planning on eating at a deficit or at a surplus?

If your goal is to get leaner, I'd recommend a deficit.

If your goal is to grow more muscle, I'd suggest a conservative surplus... maybe start at maintenance and go up by 10% every 2-4 weeks depending on the results you're getting. Keep in mind that muscle growth happens at much slower rates than fat loss.

If you're eating at surplus though... of course you'll gain weight. Some of it will be fat. Some of it will be muscle. Genetics dictate the ratio for the most part but nutrition and training definitely play a significant role as well.

I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Why low fat? And what's reasonably low?