I do DVDs so I don't need to strength train

stroutman81

I understand about the prepackage programs. I haven't check out Tony but if he is anything like Shawn T then I will probably put him on mute lol. CJ is a excellent motivator in her DVD series surprisingly. In the ChaLean Extreme dvds she has us lifting 1 set maxing out between our 10th to 12th rep. If I make it to my 12 rep the next time I do my work out I up my weights to see if I can make it to10 with my form intact. Its a lot of compound movements....rows while lunging, etc.

I appreciate your info.

Sounds sensible assuming they're allowing for adequate rest between sets and sane amounts of volume. Also, I don't see a point in reaching muscular failure at each set.

rachmaree

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.
Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.
For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!? Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.
I am on summer holiday at the moment (I am a teacher) which is why I have so much time to workout, but once school starts, I won't have the time and/or energy for so many workouts.
I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle? I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you in advance

jae6704

bump for reading later. I so want to strength train but I am not sure what to do

jae6704

bump for reading later. I so want to strength train but I am not sure what to do

faithfitnessandnutrition

One word ............Cathe!

hear, hear... I own Cathe's STS series and it's amazing!! complete weight lifting DVD series well worth the money. Amy Bento has another great weight lifting DVD as does Chalene Johnson's Chalene Extreme.

LimeyTart

That said, I'm not really a fan of prepackaged programs. Custom tailored programming based on the individual's needs, setting, history, etc will blow the pants off of a prepackaged program any day of the week.

My question is this - where do I start? Assume that I am totally clueless, because well, I am.

mislove68

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.
Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.
For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!? Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.
I am on summer holiday at the moment (I am a teacher) which is why I have so much time to workout, but once school starts, I won't have the time and/or energy for so many workouts.
I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle? I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you in advance

bump I want to know what Steve also thinks of your post. 50 reps on that machine sounds nuts.

kdiamond

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.
Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.
For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!? Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.
I am on summer holiday at the moment (I am a teacher) which is why I have so much time to workout, but once school starts, I won't have the time and/or energy for so many workouts.
I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle? I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Any advice would be welcomed. Thank you in advance

Just thought I would chime in. You said you are getting more serious with weight training (or would like to). I'll tell you right now that any trainer who recommends ANY adductor/adductor machines (let alone 50 reps, my god) has no clue what they are talking about. Those machines belong in a fitness museum...they are so useless and basically just reminders of the past. You're doing an awful lot of cardio, plus eating at a deficit? Too much. You look good now, in order to reduce body fat at the low body weight you are now you need to lift heavy, 6-8 reps at a difficult weight, and reduce the cardio. I would maybe do 2 HIIT sessions a week and keep up the weight lifting 3-5 times a week. I would recommend getting the book New Rules of Lifting for Women. It has transformed my thinking, and my body.

rachmaree

Thanks for the input Kdiamond. I keep reading that those abductor/ adductor machines are pretty useless, and 50 reps seemed ridiculous. The last gym I changed from had written me a program with 30 reps and that seemed awfully excessive at the time.
I actually ordered NROLFW to my Australian address, and hopefully mum will bring it when we meet this weekend in Italy. I feel like I probably need to cut back on the cardio... it is addictive, though, I can understand why people become hooked on doing cardio. I lift 5 days a week, and started doing more and more cardio in addition... needless to say I am pretty exhausted most of the time.
Thanks for the suggestion, I think I will cut back the cardio and try to do HIIT a couple of times instead.

stroutman81

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

Questions are always welcome. That's what this place is all about and what I'm here for.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.

Glad to hear. Also cool that the owner of your gym gets involved with his clients like that. Many gym owners are businessmen and not fitness professionals and barely tell the difference between an *kitten* and an elbow.

Granted, I know plenty of fitness owners who are supposed fitness professionals who also don't have business guiding people... but that's a different story.

Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.

Not terrible. I venture into this rep zone here and there for some of my clients. By and large, if I had to give an average rep range that I employ, it'd be closer to 5-8... sometimes even lower.

It's client dependent though. With overweight/obese clients, I'll work in more high rep stuff.

For most others though, I stick with the above rep range.

And that's for the "meat and potato" exercises such as squat variations, deadlift variations, pressing, and pulling. For example, here's the workout of a client I trained last night. She's fit for the most part and trying to get leaner. Obviously it's one part of a large puzzle... but just to give you an idea:

A1 - Barbell Squats - 3x5
A2- Single Leg DB Romanian Deadlilfts - 3x12 each leg
B1 - Cable Rows - 3x8
B2 - Single Arm DB Bench Press - 3x8
C1 - Single Leg Hip Thrust - 2x12
C2 - Rollouts - 3x10
D - Skull Crushers

The letters simply represent groupings of exercises. For example, she did A1, then with minimal rest went into A2, then rested, then start again.

The primary exercises which would be the squats, rows, and bench press were done in the 5-8 rep range. The other stuff is all accessory stuff.... it's the details on top of the foundation. For these smaller, more isolative movements, I prefer higher rep ranges.

Again, just a snapshot.

For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!?

It's hard to say without knowing his bigger picture thinking and how this fits into everything else. I can say though that typically I'd not have my clients doing 20 reps squats... especially if muscle maintenance while dieting was the goal. There are some old school bodybuilding programs that have people doing 20 rep squats and for a lot of people, they seem to work in terms of muscle growth. Some speculate that the leg muscles respond better to higher rep sets than other parts. I don' t know how accurate that is.

For me personally... I hate high rep squats. I've never had a problem putting mass on legs sticking with the lower rep ranges.

And I'd never have my clients doing the adductor and abductor machine... especially for 50 reps but also not even for lower reps. I just don't see the point. It would sound to me like he believe you can "tone" the problem areas most women tend to have... but that's just a guess. I'd ask him "why?" he's recommending these things just to make sure he does in fact know what he's talking about.

Too many folks feel comfortable taking advice from anyone who's a professional in the fitness industry when in fact most people in the fitness industry aren't fit to be giving advice. Being critical is a must if you're going to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

See above.

Put it this way... the only machine I have in my gym is a cable tower that allows for horizontal and vertical pulling. If you want to call that a machine, so be it. I'm not particularly fond of machines since they're not, generally speaking, dare I say functional. By that I mean most of them lock you into a fixed range of motion and the real world requires you to be strong in multiple planes of motion.

Rather than doing leg extensions and adductions/abductions... I'd much sooner see my clients doing barbell squats, goblet squats, front squats, conventional deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, suitcase deadlifts, step ups, alternating lunges, reverse lunges, hip thrusts, single leg squats, etc, etc.

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

Yea, that's pretty crazy. There's no magic to doing your cardio after your strength training. If you can fit your cardio into separate sessions, in fact, I'd say that'd be ideal.

And I wouldn't go doing marathon ab sessions... treat them like you would any other muscle for the most part.

And correlation does not equal causation. There are a lot of moving parts that could contribute to a leaner midsection.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.

Without getting into specifics... for my clients who are trying to get leaner, I'll typically recommend:

1-3 days of strength training. It takes less work to maintain muscle than it does to increase it. Since in order to get leaner you need to lose fat... that also means you need to be in a calorie deficit. When in a calorie deficit, it's tough to add muscle... especially if you're not fat and/or very new to this sort of training. Therefore muscle maintenance is the target. Where I might have someone training 3-5+ days per week with weights when muscle growth is the goal, 1-3 sessions per week is plenty for maintenance.

In terms of conditioning or cardio work, it really depends on teh client. I have some clients who will do none. They'll simply keep tight wraps of their nutrition ensuring they're in a calorie deficit that way. They despise cardio and know it's not necessary in order to get lean. Others enjoy it or like the added "sink" for additional calorie consumption so they add it in. How much, again, depends on the person... but on average I'd say 2-5 sessions per week ranging from 15-60 minutes per session depending on the type and intensity.

As you can tell, there is no One Right Way of going about this, but speaking generally, I find that having to go beyond this typically means a) the clients nutrition isn't on point or b) they've fallen victim to believing more is more and feel the need to beat their bodies into submission rather than coaxing the fat off with smart planning/training.

I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you planning on eating at a deficit or at a surplus?

If your goal is to get leaner, I'd recommend a deficit.

If your goal is to grow more muscle, I'd suggest a conservative surplus... maybe start at maintenance and go up by 10% every 2-4 weeks depending on the results you're getting. Keep in mind that muscle growth happens at much slower rates than fat loss.

If you're eating at surplus though... of course you'll gain weight. Some of it will be fat. Some of it will be muscle. Genetics dictate the ratio for the most part but nutrition and training definitely play a significant role as well.

I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Why low fat? And what's reasonably low?

rachmaree

Hi Steve! If you do check back on this thread, I was wondering your thoughts on my situation. You were helpful in the last thread about lean people getting leaner, so I thought I would ask another question/ more questions.

Questions are always welcome. That's what this place is all about and what I'm here for.

For the past 2 months I have gotten more serious with weight training, by which I mean I actually have a program written for me, rather than just doing whatever weights I feel like at the time, and the owner of the gym I recently joined has given me a new program.

Glad to hear. Also cool that the owner of your gym gets involved with his clients like that. Many gym owners are businessmen and not fitness professionals and barely tell the difference between an *kitten* and an elbow.

Granted, I know plenty of fitness owners who are supposed fitness professionals who also don't have business guiding people... but that's a different story.

Most of the sets are 3 or 4 sets of 12-15 reps, which seems reasonable, although I will sometimes do less reps with higher weight depending how I feel, but I follow his program.

Not terrible. I venture into this rep zone here and there for some of my clients. By and large, if I had to give an average rep range that I employ, it'd be closer to 5-8... sometimes even lower.

It's client dependent though. With overweight/obese clients, I'll work in more high rep stuff.

For most others though, I stick with the above rep range.

And that's for the "meat and potato" exercises such as squat variations, deadlift variations, pressing, and pulling. For example, here's the workout of a client I trained last night. She's fit for the most part and trying to get leaner. Obviously it's one part of a large puzzle... but just to give you an idea:

A1 - Barbell Squats - 3x5
A2- Single Leg DB Romanian Deadlilfts - 3x12 each leg
B1 - Cable Rows - 3x8
B2 - Single Arm DB Bench Press - 3x8
C1 - Single Leg Hip Thrust - 2x12
C2 - Rollouts - 3x10
D - Skull Crushers

The letters simply represent groupings of exercises. For example, she did A1, then with minimal rest went into A2, then rested, then start again.

The primary exercises which would be the squats, rows, and bench press were done in the 5-8 rep range. The other stuff is all accessory stuff.... it's the details on top of the foundation. For these smaller, more isolative movements, I prefer higher rep ranges.

Again, just a snapshot.

For a couple of the exercises, he has written higher reps- for example, squats, 5 sets of 20, and the abductor/ adductor machines (not sure about spelling) he has said 4 sets of 50 reps!?

It's hard to say without knowing his bigger picture thinking and how this fits into everything else. I can say though that typically I'd not have my clients doing 20 reps squats... especially if muscle maintenance while dieting was the goal. There are some old school bodybuilding programs that have people doing 20 rep squats and for a lot of people, they seem to work in terms of muscle growth. Some speculate that the leg muscles respond better to higher rep sets than other parts. I don' t know how accurate that is.

For me personally... I hate high rep squats. I've never had a problem putting mass on legs sticking with the lower rep ranges.

And I'd never have my clients doing the adductor and abductor machine... especially for 50 reps but also not even for lower reps. I just don't see the point. It would sound to me like he believe you can "tone" the problem areas most women tend to have... but that's just a guess. I'd ask him "why?" he's recommending these things just to make sure he does in fact know what he's talking about.

Too many folks feel comfortable taking advice from anyone who's a professional in the fitness industry when in fact most people in the fitness industry aren't fit to be giving advice. Being critical is a must if you're going to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Do you think there is any benefit in doing 50 reps on those thigh machines? I don't particularly enjoy using those machines in the first place, and 50 reps is quite challenging and super boring. Also for leg extentions he has said 20 reps. Are there any exercises you would suggest doing higher reps?

See above.

Put it this way... the only machine I have in my gym is a cable tower that allows for horizontal and vertical pulling. If you want to call that a machine, so be it. I'm not particularly fond of machines since they're not, generally speaking, dare I say functional. By that I mean most of them lock you into a fixed range of motion and the real world requires you to be strong in multiple planes of motion.

Rather than doing leg extensions and adductions/abductions... I'd much sooner see my clients doing barbell squats, goblet squats, front squats, conventional deadlifts, romanian deadlifts, suitcase deadlifts, step ups, alternating lunges, reverse lunges, hip thrusts, single leg squats, etc, etc.

He also recommended 45 minutes of cardio post strength training, which means I am doing really long sessions at the gym! I have definitely noticed improvement in my stomach area, which could possibly be due to eating 'cleaner,' plus all that cardio, I just wonder if there might be a more efficient way to do my training? I can be there for up to 2 and a half hours if I do abs as well.

Yea, that's pretty crazy. There's no magic to doing your cardio after your strength training. If you can fit your cardio into separate sessions, in fact, I'd say that'd be ideal.

And I wouldn't go doing marathon ab sessions... treat them like you would any other muscle for the most part.

And correlation does not equal causation. There are a lot of moving parts that could contribute to a leaner midsection.

For reference, I am 159cms, 52kgs (not trying to necessarily lose weight, just lower bodyfat%) and currently lifting 5 days a week, with cardio post workout 30-45 minutes, and sometimes extra (cardio) sessions in the morning. My 'rest/ off' days I sometimes do some cardio.

Without getting into specifics... for my clients who are trying to get leaner, I'll typically recommend:

1-3 days of strength training. It takes less work to maintain muscle than it does to increase it. Since in order to get leaner you need to lose fat... that also means you need to be in a calorie deficit. When in a calorie deficit, it's tough to add muscle... especially if you're not fat and/or very new to this sort of training. Therefore muscle maintenance is the target. Where I might have someone training 3-5+ days per week with weights when muscle growth is the goal, 1-3 sessions per week is plenty for maintenance.

In terms of conditioning or cardio work, it really depends on teh client. I have some clients who will do none. They'll simply keep tight wraps of their nutrition ensuring they're in a calorie deficit that way. They despise cardio and know it's not necessary in order to get lean. Others enjoy it or like the added "sink" for additional calorie consumption so they add it in. How much, again, depends on the person... but on average I'd say 2-5 sessions per week ranging from 15-60 minutes per session depending on the type and intensity.

As you can tell, there is no One Right Way of going about this, but speaking generally, I find that having to go beyond this typically means a) the clients nutrition isn't on point or b) they've fallen victim to believing more is more and feel the need to beat their bodies into submission rather than coaxing the fat off with smart planning/training.

I want to lose fat, so I know I should eat at a calorie deficit, but I worry if I eat above maintanance I will gain weight/ fat, rather than build mucsle?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you planning on eating at a deficit or at a surplus?

If your goal is to get leaner, I'd recommend a deficit.

If your goal is to grow more muscle, I'd suggest a conservative surplus... maybe start at maintenance and go up by 10% every 2-4 weeks depending on the results you're getting. Keep in mind that muscle growth happens at much slower rates than fat loss.

If you're eating at surplus though... of course you'll gain weight. Some of it will be fat. Some of it will be muscle. Genetics dictate the ratio for the most part but nutrition and training definitely play a significant role as well.

I currently try to eat 150grams of protein per day, keep the fat reasonably low, and the rest is carbs.

Why low fat? And what's reasonably low?

Thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it. The owner of the gym is a really nice guy, and the first trainer in three years that has actually shown interest in what I do at the gym. He is an ex amateur bodybuilder, but I am aware that doesn't automatically mean he has all the answers! I wasn't impressed when I did check my weight, and he said I should lose 4 more kgs!! He said 49kgs would be ideal. I don't agree. Anyway....

I have basically been eating at a deficit, but it is not consistent. By that, I mean, some days I am at a 500 calorie defecit, other days 100. There are days when I am around maintanence, it really depends. I do sometimes go over, but on average, 300-500 deficit most days. To be honest I mostly eat when I am hungry, and have been more careful about what I am eating. I have my macros on here set to 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat. I sometimes go over a bit on fat and carbs, as I find it hard sometimes to hit my protein goal, especially on a workout day.

Why low fat... I am not too sure why ı set my macros to that.

I have lost a couple of kgs in the past 6 weeks or so eating like this, but I am not sure I want to keep eating at a deficit. Seeing the muscle start to show makes me want to lose more fat to show it better, but at the same time I love lifting and I think it might be cool to try to build muscle. I know I have to decide!

Thanks again for your advice. Today was my legs day and I did less reps with more weight for barbell squats, leg extentions, I did the leg curls and stiffleg deadlifts as a superset, and skipped the adductor/ abductor machines altogether.

I am going to have a better look at the exercises you mentioned, to make sure I know exactly what they are, and then ı would like to try incorporating them into my program.

bcattoes

To say that you won't build muscle with resistance training. squats or cardio just isn't true. It's true that you will only build it to a certain point and that point will not be as much as if you lifted weights. But you CAN have a toned body with muscles from cardio and resistance training. Or at least I can (I really don't know anything about the rest of you). I have for most of my life.

End6ame

Thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it. The owner of the gym is a really nice guy, and the first trainer in three years that has actually shown interest in what I do at the gym. He is an ex amateur bodybuilder, but I am aware that doesn't automatically mean he has all the answers! I wasn't impressed when I did check my weight, and he said I should lose 4 more kgs!! He said 49kgs would be ideal. I don't agree. Anyway....

I have basically been eating at a deficit, but it is not consistent. By that, I mean, some days I am at a 500 calorie defecit, other days 100. There are days when I am around maintanence, it really depends. I do sometimes go over, but on average, 300-500 deficit most days. To be honest I mostly eat when I am hungry, and have been more careful about what I am eating. I have my macros on here set to 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat. I sometimes go over a bit on fat and carbs, as I find it hard sometimes to hit my protein goal, especially on a workout day.

Why low fat... I am not too sure why ı set my macros to that.

I have lost a couple of kgs in the past 6 weeks or so eating like this, but I am not sure I want to keep eating at a deficit. Seeing the muscle start to show makes me want to lose more fat to show it better, but at the same time I love lifting and I think it might be cool to try to build muscle. I know I have to decide!

Thanks again for your advice. Today was my legs day and I did less reps with more weight for barbell squats, leg extentions, I did the leg curls and stiffleg deadlifts as a superset, and skipped the adductor/ abductor machines altogether.

I am going to have a better look at the exercises you mentioned, to make sure I know exactly what they are, and then ı would like to try incorporating them into my program.

Take a look at the book “Starting Strength” it has great information on core exercises including why they are important, how to properly perform them, the mechanics, human physiology, etc… It also emphasizes a similar rep break down that Steve recommended; high weight, lower rep on core lifts and lower weight higher rep on assistance exercises. It can be technical at times but is a great reference for anyone interested in strength training.

stroutman81

To say that you won't build muscle with resistance training. squats or cardio just isn't true. It's true that you will only build it to a certain point and that point will not be as much as if you lifted weights. But you CAN have a toned body with muscles from cardio and resistance training. Or at least I can (I really don't know anything about the rest of you). I have for most of my life.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.

But anyone can be toned if fat stores are dropped to a minimum threshold. Without resistance training and/or good genetics and/or good drugs though, that "toned" look isn't going to be what most are shooting for. Fat loss without maximizing muscle maintenance/gain typically leaves most people wanting more. Granted, there are exceptions. But it's definitely a very common problem in my experience where people lose fat without putting an emphasis on muscle maintenance and they wind up frustrated.

To say that you won't build muscle with resistance training. squats or cardio just isn't true.

This statement in particular really confused me. Can you please elaborate? Also, I admittedly didn't read the entire thread but who in particular are you referring to? Who claimed that you can't build muscle "with resistance training, squats or cardio" and where did they say it?

stroutman81

Take a look at the book “Starting Strength” it has great information on core exercises including why they are important, how to properly perform them, the mechanics, human physiology, etc… It also emphasizes a similar rep break down that Steve recommended; high weight, lower rep on core lifts and lower weight higher rep on assistance exercises. It can be technical at times but is a great reference for anyone interested in strength training.

Yea, I'd second that recommendation. Mark Rippetoe's books, Starting Strength and Practical Programming, are very good reads. I wouldn't necessarily follow the programs outlined in them to a T for everyone but as a "catch all" approach... most would be served well with them. Especially leaner folks trying to get leaner and maintain muscle while eating hypocalorically.

stroutman81

Thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it. The owner of the gym is a really nice guy, and the first trainer in three years that has actually shown interest in what I do at the gym.

Oh I'm sure his intentions are good. Like I said though... you owe it to yourself to be "picky" when it comes to the advice you consume in this industry.

He is an ex amateur bodybuilder, but I am aware that doesn't automatically mean he has all the answers!

Yea, a lot of bodybuilders resort to drugs and because most anything works when using drugs, they're led to believe that their individual way of going about things is gospel. They they preach it to people who may or may not be in similar shoes to the shoes they wore while training or competing.

Don't get me wrong... I know some bodybuilders who are extremely smart when it comes to this stuff. Tom Venuto and Layne Norton come to mind. By and large though, I've found most bodybuilders rely on "bro science" for their smarts. Some of it pans out to be good advice. A lot of it pans out to be garbage.

I have basically been eating at a deficit, but it is not consistent. By that, I mean, some days I am at a 500 calorie defecit, other days 100. There are days when I am around maintanence, it really depends. I do sometimes go over, but on average, 300-500 deficit most days.

Most people are in these shoes.... even if they know it or not. Daily energy expenditure is not a static thing. Unless you're constantly changing your daily calorie intake each and every day (which seems a bit neurotic to me), you're deficit (or surplus) is varying day to day.

Larger folks with a lot of wiggle room as far as calories go typically don't need to worry about this daily variance. Smaller folks however, who don't have large daily energy expenditures, can run into some issues. It's easy to be off by 100-200 or so calories, which, for a smaller person, can be substantially different rates of fat loss or muscle gain.

If you've not had problems in terms of plateaus though, I'd say your way (of eating when you're hungry) is optimal. No point in muddying the waters unless you have to. That has always been my approach.

I would note however that you should pick one or the other - fat loss or muscle gain. Sure, while losing fat you might gain some muscle. But you should pick one "theme" and stick with it. Take me as an example. I'm around 190 lbs at 10% body fat or thereabouts.

Genetically... if I never ate the way I did or trained the way I have... I'd be a puny runt. I'd be parked at 6' and likely 165 lbs.

Instead, I've cycled over the years where I'd spend time in a surplus focusing on building as much muscle as possible while minimizing fat gains. Once I'd reach a certain point where I felt heavy or too soft, I'd switch gears and focus on fat loss while maximizing muscle maintenance. At the end of each successive phase, I'd be a few steps further along in terms of an improved physique.

People carrying around a lot of fat should focus on fat loss. Once they're at leaner levels, then they can reassess - decide if they're happy with where their bodies are then or should they work to improve things. And if they're lean enough.... that means adding muscle.

It's the interim folks who tend to have a confusing time of things. They aren't fat by any means. They aren't ripped either. Should they work to gain muscle or should they focus on losing more fat? There really isn't a right answer here. Personally, I'm more inclined to get as lean as comfortably possible... which doesn't mean bodybuilder lean... and then use that as the foundation to "bulk" from if you so desire.

Let me know if you have anymore questions.

bcattoes

To say that you won't build muscle with resistance training. squats or cardio just isn't true. It's true that you will only build it to a certain point and that point will not be as much as if you lifted weights. But you CAN have a toned body with muscles from cardio and resistance training. Or at least I can (I really don't know anything about the rest of you). I have for most of my life.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.

But anyone can be toned if fat stores are dropped to a minimum threshold. Without resistance training and/or good genetics and/or good drugs though, that "toned" look isn't going to be what most are shooting for. Fat loss without maximizing muscle maintenance/gain typically leaves most people wanting more. Granted, there are exceptions. But it's definitely a very common problem in my experience where people lose fat without putting an emphasis on muscle maintenance and they wind up frustrated.

To say that you won't build muscle with resistance training. squats or cardio just isn't true.

This statement in particular really confused me. Can you please elaborate? Also, I admittedly didn't read the entire thread but who in particular are you referring to? Who claimed that you can't build muscle "with resistance training, squats or cardio" and where did they say it?

To elaborate: I do cardio (currently Zumba) DVDs 6 days a week and 3 or 4 days a week I do resistance training (resistance bands, desk push ups and squats) and I develop muscles. If I stop doing this, I lose muscle. That's pretty much it, if I do it I'm fit (thin and firm), if I don't, I'm not. have muscles that you can see and feel. I don't look all pumped up like Jillian Michaels (thank God) but I look pretty fit. Therefore, cardio DVDs and resistance builds muscles for me. I've always used cardio DVDs to get or stay in shape.

stroutman81

To elaborate: I do cardio (currently Zumba) DVDs 6 days a week and 3 or 4 days a week I do resistance training (resistance bands, desk push ups and squats) and I develop muscles. If I stop doing this, I lose muscle. That's pretty much it, if I do it I'm fit (thin and firm), if I don't, I'm not. have muscles that you can see and feel. I don't look all pumped up like Jillian Michaels (thank God) but I look pretty fit. Therefore, cardio DVDs and resistance builds muscles for me. I've always used cardio DVDs to get or stay in shape.

Right, but who were you responding to? Who claimed that you can't build muscle "with resistance training, squats or cardio" and where did they say it?

Here's another point in reference to what you just said. Something I elaborated on in detail earlier in this thread. There's a threshold of intensity* that's required to elicit improvements. This threshold is very low for untrained people. For this reason, rank novices can see improvements in muscle mass and strength simply by walking. Their body weights provide enough intensity to drive change.

As this person adapts to the training though, the threshold will actually increase. That's to say what once acted as an overload on the body will become a maintenance load. That's the essence of life, really. Our bodies are biologically hardwired to adapt to their surroundings to help ensure survival. Only when these surroundings "stress" the body do they cause change.

My long winded point, which may or may not make sense seeing as how I'm wrestling with a 1 year old as I type this, is that pushups, for instance, will certainly represent enough of an overload for a lot of folks... especially women. IN response to this overload, primarily your chest, shoulders, and triceps will get stronger and possibly get bigger. After a while though, as your body gets used to this load, the improvements will slow and eventually stop assuming you aren't gaining weight. You can certainly increase the overload by lifting one leg in the air, elevating both feet, wearing a weight vest or putting a weight on your back, etc.

The point of this thread wasn't to imply that circuit training was worthless. It was that for OPTIMAL RESULTS to occur, you need to apply the right sort of stimulus. This doesn't mean less appropriate stimuli won't do 'something.'

stroutman81

And just to add to that... this is the very reason why pretty much anything works for a novice. A novice can pretty much gain muscle and lose fat by doing nothing but walking. Which is why it's important to jump in and do something rather than worrying about doing things perfectly. Paralysis by analysis trips up a lot of people when if they jumped in and got busy... they'd a) get a lot of bang for their buck and b) learn as they go.

But as noted... that threshold definitely adapts just as the other variables which is why your training needs to get more specific and progressive the further along the curve you go in terms of fitness.

bcattoes

My long winded point, which may or may not make sense seeing as how I'm wrestling with a 1 year old as I type this, is that pushups, for instance, will certainly represent enough of an overload for a lot of folks... especially women. IN response to this overload, primarily your chest, shoulders, and triceps will get stronger and possibly get bigger. After a while though, as your body gets used to this load, the improvements will slow and eventually stop assuming you aren't gaining weight. You can certainly increase the overload by lifting one leg in the air, elevating both feet, wearing a weight vest or putting a weight on your back, etc.

The point of this thread wasn't to imply that circuit training was worthless. It was that for OPTIMAL RESULTS to occur, you need to apply the right sort of stimulus. This doesn't mean less appropriate stimuli won't do 'something.'

I was refering to the OP which said:

"You can do squats with your body weight or while holding pink dumbbells until you're ready to pass out, but unless you're brand spanking new to this stuff, that's probably not going to overload your muscles and cause them to maintain while dieting or to grow.

Building or even maintaining muscle seems to be the elusive variable for most people. They're too busy worrying about whether they're smaller or lighter and wind up forgetting that looking great nekkid is about much more than size and weight. To optimize muscle, you need to move heavy stuff... picking it up and putting it back down. Period. "

Which sounded to me like were saying you couldn't build muscle by doing cardio & resistance. Which is not true. But if, in fact, you were just saying that you can't achieve "OPTIMAL RESULTS" (i.e. your opinion of optimal results) then I can buy that. It's just that I don't think building muscles as big as possible looks good nekkid or is optimal. I like a more naturally healthy look. Like you got that way without trying. (just MHO)