"Just" Cardio

brit49

There is no activity that your body does that doesn't involve your muscles so nothing is purely "cardio". You won't grow your muscles from just running, but you will make them stronger. Look at it this way, your heart is a muscle. When you run, you are working your heart and the more you run, the stronger your heart gets to the point where you are able to run the same speed and distance at a lower heart rate. But your heart didn't get bigger. It got stronger. The muscles are already there in your body. Doing cardio will make them stronger, but will not make them bigger, especially at a caloric deficit. Even if you are hardcore strength training you can't build muscle if you don't eat enough. Just because you have been only doing cardio and can now see your muscle doesn't mean the cardio built or grew the muscle. It strengthened the muscle and burned the layer of fat that was covering the muscle, but the muscle was already there.

I hope this explains it all finally, lol

liftingbro

Built them up. Made them bigger/stonger/toned. Semantics. The muscles are bigger and stronger after beginning cardio than they were when sitting on the couch all day.

Let's say you "conditioned" them. And of course they got stronger (no such thing as toned) after being sedentary. While you may think it's semantics, it's incorrect terminology if the discussion is that you "build" muscle while doing cardio.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-does-exercise-make-yo

The article above covers the "conditioning" part. When you first start exercising your body does not recruit fibers (FT or ST) as efficiently as it does after you've been training for a while. This is why someone doing cardio exercises can gain some strength after starting a running program. They are not increasing muscle mass, their body just is more efficient using the muscle they already have.

Once the body adapts and recruits muscle fibers efficiently, the person doing cardio will stop gaining strength the person lifting will add muscle mass and continue to get stronger (to a point of course).

bcattoes

Built them up. Made them bigger/stonger/toned. Semantics. The muscles are bigger and stronger after beginning cardio than they were when sitting on the couch all day.

Let's say you "conditioned" them. And of course they got stronger (no such thing as toned) after being sedentary. While you may think it's semantics, it's incorrect terminology if the discussion is that you "build" muscle while doing cardio.

I would argue that it's incorrect terminology to say there is no such thing as "toned" since the dictionary says there is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tone
to gain or cause to gain in tone or strength: toning up little-used muscles.

datzun

This has been a pretty informative (and in some cases, uninformative) thread.

Here's my newbie question:
I've been doing mainly cardio (5 days a week) for a couple of months now. I've lost weight, which is good (hoping it's not muscle, but I've upped my calorie intake as well...and continue to do so). I do other light exercises each day (pushups, crunches, etc.). From what I gather, I won't 'build' muscle in this manner. However, if I'm losing fat, will my body become more 'defined'? Will what lean muscle I have, show through? Will I ever see ab muscles from this routine?

No idea what my BF % is, but I'm at 168 lbs now at 6'4" in height.

liftingbro

Built them up. Made them bigger/stonger/toned. Semantics. The muscles are bigger and stronger after beginning cardio than they were when sitting on the couch all day.

Let's say you "conditioned" them. And of course they got stronger (no such thing as toned) after being sedentary. While you may think it's semantics, it's incorrect terminology if the discussion is that you "build" muscle while doing cardio.

I would argue that it's incorrect terminology to say there is no such thing as "toned" since the dictionary says there is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tone
to gain or cause to gain in tone or strength: toning up little-used muscles.

Just because it's in the dictionary does not mean it's correct terminology.

However, tone from a medical point of view is the tension of the muscle or tissue of the body. The lack of tone is normally caused by a nerological problem and not much can be done in most cases to correct it.

The "tone" often used in fitness and that you quote is a relatively new term that probably started off as an incorrect usage of the medical term.

corpus_validum

This just seems like a silly discussion. I'm with the camp that low-intensity "cardio" activity like long-distance running, bicycling, etc. won't build muscles. If it did, world champion winners like the following would have huge muscles...but they don't, especially not the men.

Proof:
Tomescu Constantina - 2008 Olympics Marathon Gold Medalist


Chrissie Wellington - 2007, 2008, 2009 Ironman World Championship Winner


Alberto Contador - 2007, 2009, 2010 Tour de France Winner


Chris McCormack - 2010 Ironman World Championship Winner


High-intensity cardio training like sprinting and sports that require bursts of explosiveness...well that can help build muscles. Here are a few examples of soccer and tennis stars (and I could've found better examples like NFL running backs, MMA fighters, but you get the point):

Abby Wambach


Christiano Ronaldo


Serena Williams


Rafael Nadal


So yes, certain cardio can help build muscles. The ones that utilize fast-twitch muscles or what you may consider high-intensity.

liftingbro

This has been a pretty informative (and in some cases, uninformative) thread.

Here's my newbie question:
I've been doing mainly cardio (5 days a week) for a couple of months now. I've lost weight, which is good (hoping it's not muscle, but I've upped my calorie intake as well...and continue to do so). I do other light exercises each day (pushups, crunches, etc.). From what I gather, I won't 'build' muscle in this manner. However, if I'm losing fat, will my body become more 'defined'? Will what lean muscle I have, show through? Will I ever see ab muscles from this routine?

No idea what my BF % is, but I'm at 168 lbs now at 6'4" in height.

If you are not in too big of deficit it's possible that you might not lose muscle but generally speaking if you are in a deficit and not lifting you will probably lose some muscle mass. Theoretically, yes, if you lower your BF% enough you will be able to see abs. However, the less muscle you have the lower BF% you have to get to for that to happen.

If you have a lot of muscle mass you might see the outlines of abs at 14-15% and full abs at 10-11%. If you are lightly muscled you may have to get sub 10% before a clearly defined 6 pack can be seen. A lot of this also depends on genetics.

People who are skinny fat (thin with very low amount of muscle) have the hardest time getting definiton because of the lack of muscle and they often end up bulking up first opposed to losing fat first.

ninerbuff

I would argue that it's incorrect terminology to say there is no such thing as "toned" since the dictionary says there is.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tone
to gain or cause to gain in tone or strength: toning up little-used muscles.

No it's correct. Look at the definition again. Your definition is under TONE UP. Correct way to use tone is to say your muscles have tone, not that you're toned.

liftingbro

This just seems like a silly discussion. I'm with the camp that low-intensity "cardio" activity like long-distance running, bicycling, etc. won't build muscles. If it did, world champion winners like the following would have huge muscles...but they don't, especially not the men.

Proof:
Tomescu Constantina - 2008 Olympics Marathon Gold Medalist


Chrissie Wellington - 2007, 2008, 2009 Ironman World Championship Winner


Alberto Contador - 2007, 2009, 2010 Tour de France Winner


Chris McCormack - 2010 Ironman World Championship Winner


High-intensity cardio training like sprinting and sports that require bursts of explosiveness...well that can help build muscles. Here are a few examples of soccer and tennis stars (and I could've found better examples like NFL running backs, MMA fighters, but you get the point):

Abby Wambach


Christiano Ronaldo


Serena Williams


Rafael Nadal


So yes, certain cardio can help build muscles. The ones that utilize fast-twitch muscles or what you may consider high-intensity.

Not the greatest examples because Nadal and the Serena Williams both also lift weights.

ninerbuff

This has been a pretty informative (and in some cases, uninformative) thread.

Here's my newbie question:
I've been doing mainly cardio (5 days a week) for a couple of months now. I've lost weight, which is good (hoping it's not muscle, but I've upped my calorie intake as well...and continue to do so). I do other light exercises each day (pushups, crunches, etc.). From what I gather, I won't 'build' muscle in this manner. However, if I'm losing fat, will my body become more 'defined'? Will what lean muscle I have, show through? Will I ever see ab muscles from this routine?

No idea what my BF % is, but I'm at 168 lbs now at 6'4" in height.

Defined yes. You'll see more definition if your body fat is lower.

ninerbuff

This just seems like a silly discussion. I'm with the camp that low-intensity "cardio" activity like long-distance running, bicycling, etc. won't build muscles. If it did, world champion winners like the following would have huge muscles...but they don't, especially not the men.

Proof:
Tomescu Constantina - 2008 Olympics Marathon Gold Medalist


Chrissie Wellington - 2007, 2008, 2009 Ironman World Championship Winner


Alberto Contador - 2007, 2009, 2010 Tour de France Winner


Chris McCormack - 2010 Ironman World Championship Winner


High-intensity cardio training like sprinting and sports that require bursts of explosiveness...well that can help build muscles. Here are a few examples of soccer and tennis stars (and I could've found better examples like NFL running backs, MMA fighters, but you get the point):

Abby Wambach


Christiano Ronaldo


Serena Williams


Rafael Nadal


So yes, certain cardio can help build muscles. The ones that utilize fast-twitch muscles or what you may consider high-intensity.

I'm assuming the OP isn't a sprinter or explosive runner, but one who runs steady state.

otr12

All you gotta do is call shotgun.

ninerbuff

Not the greatest examples because Nadal and the Serena Williams both also lift weights.

So does Ronaldo. In fact he has a workout website.

bcattoes

Of course cardio builds muscle, because as the OP pointed out you have to use muscle to do cardio. I think the disconnect is that just doing cardio will at some point stop building muscle and just maintain that muscle. Once you have enough muscle to efficiently run 3 miles your legs will not keep building bigger and bigger muscles (thank God!) if that's all you do because it's not needed. But those muscles you originally built will remain as long as you continue to run 3 miles regularly. And you'll continue to burn calories, which I why I love cardio.

You didn't build them is the point..................they were already there. You have back muscles. You have shoulder muscles. You have butt muscles. Reducing fat exposes them, and the misconception is that muscle was "built". If you weighed 115lbs and skinny, then later on weighed 150lbs and had much bigger muscles, you built muscles. Going the opposite direction doesn't build muscle.
You don't build muscle on CALORIE DEFICITS. This is scientifically proven.

Built them up. Made them bigger/stonger/toned. Semantics. The muscles are bigger and stronger after beginning cardio than they were when sitting on the couch all day.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! NO THEY ARE NOT. Unless you've been doing some sort of lifting.

I bet if you would have measured your legs at the thigh and calf before and did it again now they'd be smaller.

Of course they are smaller because I lost fat.

liftingbro

Of course cardio builds muscle, because as the OP pointed out you have to use muscle to do cardio. I think the disconnect is that just doing cardio will at some point stop building muscle and just maintain that muscle. Once you have enough muscle to efficiently run 3 miles your legs will not keep building bigger and bigger muscles (thank God!) if that's all you do because it's not needed. But those muscles you originally built will remain as long as you continue to run 3 miles regularly. And you'll continue to burn calories, which I why I love cardio.

You didn't build them is the point..................they were already there. You have back muscles. You have shoulder muscles. You have butt muscles. Reducing fat exposes them, and the misconception is that muscle was "built". If you weighed 115lbs and skinny, then later on weighed 150lbs and had much bigger muscles, you built muscles. Going the opposite direction doesn't build muscle.
You don't build muscle on CALORIE DEFICITS. This is scientifically proven.

Built them up. Made them bigger/stonger/toned. Semantics. The muscles are bigger and stronger after beginning cardio than they were when sitting on the couch all day.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! NO THEY ARE NOT. Unless you've been doing some sort of lifting.

I bet if you would have measured your legs at the thigh and calf before and did it again now they'd be smaller.

Of course they are smaller because I lost fat.

Yes, of course but your're probably not building muscle.

Why do you think you're right when this is something agreed upon by almost every expert in the sports nutrition and fitness world?

Show me a runner who does not lift weights and has bigger than normal legs and then we can debate.

fteale

maybe i'm not an olympic swimmer, but i swam in high school and my muscles got WAY bigger without weight lifting. just sayin

Because there was resistance. And the faster you swim, the more resistance you will get from the water.

Exactly. Cardiovascular activity doesn't build muscle. I have not at any point said it does, but name a cardiovascular activity that doesn't involve *some* level of resistance.

All I am saying is that ALL sports provide SOME resistance, so will provide SOME muscle building or maintaining effect. I am not saying runners will get big muscles, or bodies like people who lift. Of course they don't. But to say people who run are doing "just" cardio, is not accurate, as no sport just raises your heart rate with no resistance for your muscles.

liftingbro

maybe i'm not an olympic swimmer, but i swam in high school and my muscles got WAY bigger without weight lifting. just sayin

Because there was resistance. And the faster you swim, the more resistance you will get from the water.

Exactly. Cardiovascular activity doesn't build muscle. I have not at any point said it does, but name a cardiovascular activity that doesn't involve *some* level of resistance.

Explain this then:

I often read "You won't gain muscle by just doing cardio" but what exercise IS just cardio? Running and cycling build leg muscles, rowing builds them all over, as does swimming, I can't think of any sport where the cardio aspect is balanced with some strengthening effect. So what is "just" cardio? Air punching?

All I am saying is that ALL sports provide SOME resistance, so will provide SOME muscle building or maintaining effect. I am not saying runners will get big muscles, or bodies like people who lift. Of course they don't. But to say people who run are doing "just" cardio, is not accurate, as no sport just raises your heart rate with no resistance for your muscles.

How many times does it have to be said that a certain level of resistance has to be met to recruit FT muscle and that the vast majority of cardio exercises don't meet that? Running does not, cycling does not, swimming is debateable, sprinting may or may not. Resistence unqualified does not always mean you're building muscle. If you are able to curl 30lbs in one hand and sit and do like 100 reps of 5 pounds that's not doing anything. This is the same reason why running does not build muscle, nor does ZUMBA.

fteale

Lactic acid is an indication if a muscle is being overloaded. The "burn" you feel when you lift weights will cause you to stop. You don't get that burn running unless there's resistance. Like running up a hill or stairs, or in the sand at high speed.

That's daft. All runners hit hills at some time. It's part of running. Or like sprinting does that not count under your definition of "running"?

fteale

There is no activity that your body does that doesn't involve your muscles so nothing is purely "cardio". You won't grow your muscles from just running, but you will make them stronger. Look at it this way, your heart is a muscle. When you run, you are working your heart and the more you run, the stronger your heart gets to the point where you are able to run the same speed and distance at a lower heart rate. But your heart didn't get bigger. It got stronger. The muscles are already there in your body. Doing cardio will make them stronger, but will not make them bigger, especially at a caloric deficit. Even if you are hardcore strength training you can't build muscle if you don't eat enough. Just because you have been only doing cardio and can now see your muscle doesn't mean the cardio built or grew the muscle. It strengthened the muscle and burned the layer of fat that was covering the muscle, but the muscle was already there.

THANK YOU! That is what I was saying. NOTHING is purely "cardio".

liftingbro

Lactic acid is an indication if a muscle is being overloaded. The "burn" you feel when you lift weights will cause you to stop. You don't get that burn running unless there's resistance. Like running up a hill or stairs, or in the sand at high speed.

That's daft. All runners hit hills at some time. It's part of running. Or like sprinting does that not count under your definition of "running"?

We're talking steep hills for that to happen not your typical hills while running. Sure, you could come across that some on a run but it wouldn't be often enough to qualify as resistance training.