"Just" Cardio

liftingbro

There is no activity that your body does that doesn't involve your muscles so nothing is purely "cardio". You won't grow your muscles from just running, but you will make them stronger. Look at it this way, your heart is a muscle. When you run, you are working your heart and the more you run, the stronger your heart gets to the point where you are able to run the same speed and distance at a lower heart rate. But your heart didn't get bigger. It got stronger. The muscles are already there in your body. Doing cardio will make them stronger, but will not make them bigger, especially at a caloric deficit. Even if you are hardcore strength training you can't build muscle if you don't eat enough. Just because you have been only doing cardio and can now see your muscle doesn't mean the cardio built or grew the muscle. It strengthened the muscle and burned the layer of fat that was covering the muscle, but the muscle was already there.

THANK YOU! That is what I was saying. NOTHING is purely "cardio".

Has anyone here said anything about something being pure cardio and not having any resistance? NO.

The point that we are making is that there isn't enough resistance to activate the types of muscle fibers that result in hypertrophe.

fteale

maybe i'm not an olympic swimmer, but i swam in high school and my muscles got WAY bigger without weight lifting. just sayin

Because there was resistance. And the faster you swim, the more resistance you will get from the water.

Exactly. Cardiovascular activity doesn't build muscle. I have not at any point said it does, but name a cardiovascular activity that doesn't involve *some* level of resistance.

Explain this then:

I often read "You won't gain muscle by just doing cardio" but what exercise IS just cardio? Running and cycling build leg muscles, rowing builds them all over, as does swimming, I can't think of any sport where the cardio aspect is balanced with some strengthening effect. So what is "just" cardio? Air punching?

All I am saying is that ALL sports provide SOME resistance, so will provide SOME muscle building or maintaining effect. I am not saying runners will get big muscles, or bodies like people who lift. Of course they don't. But to say people who run are doing "just" cardio, is not accurate, as no sport just raises your heart rate with no resistance for your muscles.

How many times does it have to be said that a certain level of resistance has to be met to recruit FT muscle and that the vast majority of cardio exercises don't meet that? Running does not, cycling does not, swimming is debateable, sprinting may or may not. Resistence unqualified does not always mean you're building muscle. If you are able to curl 30lbs in one hand and sit and do like 100 reps of 5 pounds that's not doing anything. This is the same reason why running does not build muscle, nor does ZUMBA.

Seriously, have you looked at most professional cyclists legs? BIG leg muscles, teeny little arms. Think Belleville Rendevue.

liftingbro

maybe i'm not an olympic swimmer, but i swam in high school and my muscles got WAY bigger without weight lifting. just sayin

Because there was resistance. And the faster you swim, the more resistance you will get from the water.

Exactly. Cardiovascular activity doesn't build muscle. I have not at any point said it does, but name a cardiovascular activity that doesn't involve *some* level of resistance.

Explain this then:

I often read "You won't gain muscle by just doing cardio" but what exercise IS just cardio? Running and cycling build leg muscles, rowing builds them all over, as does swimming, I can't think of any sport where the cardio aspect is balanced with some strengthening effect. So what is "just" cardio? Air punching?

All I am saying is that ALL sports provide SOME resistance, so will provide SOME muscle building or maintaining effect. I am not saying runners will get big muscles, or bodies like people who lift. Of course they don't. But to say people who run are doing "just" cardio, is not accurate, as no sport just raises your heart rate with no resistance for your muscles.

How many times does it have to be said that a certain level of resistance has to be met to recruit FT muscle and that the vast majority of cardio exercises don't meet that? Running does not, cycling does not, swimming is debateable, sprinting may or may not. Resistence unqualified does not always mean you're building muscle. If you are able to curl 30lbs in one hand and sit and do like 100 reps of 5 pounds that's not doing anything. This is the same reason why running does not build muscle, nor does ZUMBA.

Seriously, have you looked at most professional cyclists legs? BIG leg muscles, teeny little arms. Think Belleville Rendevue.

Are you serious?

[img]http://dougandem.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/podium1.jpg[/quote] LOOK AT THOSE HUGE LEGS.[/img]

fteale

There is no activity that your body does that doesn't involve your muscles so nothing is purely "cardio". You won't grow your muscles from just running, but you will make them stronger. Look at it this way, your heart is a muscle. When you run, you are working your heart and the more you run, the stronger your heart gets to the point where you are able to run the same speed and distance at a lower heart rate. But your heart didn't get bigger. It got stronger. The muscles are already there in your body. Doing cardio will make them stronger, but will not make them bigger, especially at a caloric deficit. Even if you are hardcore strength training you can't build muscle if you don't eat enough. Just because you have been only doing cardio and can now see your muscle doesn't mean the cardio built or grew the muscle. It strengthened the muscle and burned the layer of fat that was covering the muscle, but the muscle was already there.

THANK YOU! That is what I was saying. NOTHING is purely "cardio".

Has anyone here said anything about something being pure cardio and not having any resistance? NO.

The point that we are making is that there isn't enough resistance to activate the types of muscle fibers that result in hypertrophe.

All I asked in my original post was to point out ONE sport that was purely cardio. By that I mean, a sport that purely raises your heart rate, because none do. Most people on here misunderstand the meaning of the term cardio, and assume it means anything that isn't lifting weights. It isn't. It is anything that raises your heart rate, and all exercise raises your heart rate.

The comments about runners are getting more and more convoluted, saying oh well, yes, SPRINTERS build muscle, and if you run up hills you build muscle....well, those things ARE running, they aren't weight lifting. Every runner I know incorporates sprints and hill training into their program. Rowing you build muscle (I know, I did it competitively for many years), you have a HUGE amount of resistance in your legs, as much as anyone can bench press. Same with cycling up a hill. ALL these sports contain elements that can build muscle.

I haven't said "Cardio builds muscles" of course it doesn't. I have said what sport IS purely cardio? Such a thing doesn't exist. I am not talking about continuing to build muscle indefinitely weight-lifter style. I am talking about almost every activity we do having a positive effect on our muscles.

corpus_validum

I haven't said "Cardio builds muscles" of course it doesn't. I have said what sport IS purely cardio? Such a thing doesn't exist. I am not talking about continuing to build muscle indefinitely weight-lifter style. I am talking about almost every activity we do having a positive effect on our muscles.

Not on a horse here, but "every activity" may or may not have a positive effect on our muscles. Endurance activities (long duration) may actually have a catabolizing effect on muscles, meaning it diminishes them. For some that may be positive effect that they're after. For others, it may be negative.

lclarkjr

I haven't said "Cardio builds muscles" of course it doesn't. I have said what sport IS purely cardio? Such a thing doesn't exist. I am not talking about continuing to build muscle indefinitely weight-lifter style. I am talking about almost every activity we do having a positive effect on our muscles.

Read the question before getting on your high horses.

Your original post did state that running and cycling builds muscle, which I disagree with. And having a positive effect on your muscles and building muscle are not necessarily the same thing. Running strengthens your muscles, which is positive, but it doesn't build them. And to answer your original question, there is no "pure cardio" activity aside from possibly just breathing. Moving your body in any way will involve your muscles.

Angelabec

OK, so, I don't want to get in the middle of a heated argument here, but I do have a question. At the moment, I use my exercise bike, and I walk. I'm big, and I'm only really interested in burning calories. However, as I get closer to my goal, I'm going to want to tone up as well. My legs will probably not be too bad, but my body and arms aren't getting a workout at all at the moment. I can't really see myself in the gym, I would rather swim, when I know that people won't take one look at me in a swim suit & call greenpeace. So, can I achieve a lean, toned (but not particularly muscular) body, by swimming alone?

ladyhawk00

I have edited/removed some posts due to insults and attacks. Please remember - debate and discussion are fine, but it needs to remain respectful at all times (even when you disagree with someone) and there is NEVER an excuse for name-calling and insults.

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corpus_validum

OK, so, I don't want to get in the middle of a heated argument here, but I do have a question. At the moment, I use my exercise bike, and I walk. I'm big, and I'm only really interested in burning calories. However, as I get closer to my goal, I'm going to want to tone up as well. My legs will probably not be too bad, but my body and arms aren't getting a workout at all at the moment. I can't really see myself in the gym, I would rather swim, when I know that people won't take one look at me in a swim suit & call greenpeace. So, can I achieve a lean, toned (but not particularly muscular) body, by swimming alone?

Primarily yes. Just be cautious of water temperature. Taken from another site:

"One study found that people who swim in cold water may consume more calories post-workout than people who swim in warmer water. So if you're swimming primarily to lose weight, make sure that you aren't inadvertently consuming unneeded calories during post-workout snacks and meals. In addition, the number of calories you burn while swimming depends on how fast you go and for how long. At a slow pace, twenty laps may burn only fifty calories — little more than simply staying afloat. On the other hand, a swimmer doing a brisk forward crawl will often burn as much as eleven calories per minute."

flutterqueen04

I have edited/removed some posts due to insults and attacks. Please remember - debate and discussion are fine, but it needs to remain respectful at all times (even when you disagree with someone) and there is NEVER an excuse for name-calling and insults.

4) Do not attack/slam/insult other users. The forums are here so that members can help support one another. Attacks or insults against each other takes away from the supportive atmosphere and will not be tolerated. You can discuss the message or topic, but not the messenger - NO EXCEPTIONS. If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, YOU will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself, defending a friend, etc. are NOT excuses. Violations of this rule are taken very seriously and may result in being banned without warning! If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Thank you for your cooperation.
Ladyhawk00
MyFitnessPal Forum Moderator

Boy I'd hate to have your job!!!! But thanks for doing it :-)

liftingbro

OK, so, I don't want to get in the middle of a heated argument here, but I do have a question. At the moment, I use my exercise bike, and I walk. I'm big, and I'm only really interested in burning calories. However, as I get closer to my goal, I'm going to want to tone up as well. My legs will probably not be too bad, but my body and arms aren't getting a workout at all at the moment. I can't really see myself in the gym, I would rather swim, when I know that people won't take one look at me in a swim suit & call greenpeace. So, can I achieve a lean, toned (but not particularly muscular) body, by swimming alone?

Yes. Just lower your BF% through a good diet and you will become "toned", so to speak,. The problem can be that people sometimes don't have a lot of muscle to begin with and vastly over estimate how much they have. A lot of bigger people start off thinking they have a lot muscle under all of the fat but most of them find out it's not as much as they thought. So, most people will also need to add muscle to look fit. It depends on what you goals are. If you simply want to look smaller, swimming should be fine. If you want to look smaller but look somewhat athletic, you'll probably want to do some resistance training.

Body weight exercises and intense Yoga can also be good options if weights are not your thing.

tigersword

Why do people in this thread think that tennis players, MMA fighters, soccer players, swimmers, football players, and even cyclists and sprinters don't spend hours in the weight room as part of their training regimen? Because they all do.

liftingbro

Why do people in this thread think that tennis players, MMA fighters, soccer players, swimmers, football players, and even cyclists and sprinters don't spend hours in the weight room as part of their training regimen? Because they all do.

That's the point. Most of these athletes do weight training. Although, most cyclists I know don't.

People post a picture of a swimmer and say "look at that swimmers body" but chances are that person spends time in the weight room.

Athletes for the most part are trained in total fitness. They may not spend as much time in the weight room as say a football player or wrestler but they do lift weights which will contribute to the muscle you see.

corpus_validum

Why do people in this thread think that tennis players, MMA fighters, soccer players, swimmers, football players, and even cyclists and sprinters don't spend hours in the weight room as part of their training regimen? Because they all do.

Uh, no one is suggesting that they don't weight train. The photos I used were to illustrate that world-class athletes in certain sports/cardio activities that require bursts of explosiveness (use of fast twitch muscles) tend to have/retain more muscle mass than those world-class athletes in endurance disciplines (marathon, tri-athlete, road cycling). That's pretty obvious, right? Irregardless of weightlifting.

Goes back to the OP's original premise that "cardio" activities like running and cycling can build muscles. That depends. Sure, if they're done in explosive but short bursts, max effort, high-intensity levels. But not likely if those same activities are done at long duration, lower-intensity levels.

Some people are not that into weight training. I can preach all the benefits but they still wouldn't care to do it. And I'm OK with that. Though not nearly as effective or expedient as weight training, those individuals can get similar, desirable body recomposition (increase in lean muscle mass) from other activities like plyometrics, HIIT, etc. that require fast, powerful movements.

ninerbuff

That's daft. All runners hit hills at some time. It's part of running. Or like sprinting does that not count under your definition of "running"?

Notice I said HI SPEED. If latic acid build up happens, the muscles don't contract and you HAVE TO STOP. Running a mile at a steady pace doesn't cause this build up. The recruitment of muscles is different.

Please before you go on, learn the difference between what fast twitch and slow twitch fibers are and how they are built. It will make more sense if you understand their make ups.

liftingbro

That's daft. All runners hit hills at some time. It's part of running. Or like sprinting does that not count under your definition of "running"?

Notice I said HI SPEED. If latic acid build up happens, the muscles don't contract and you HAVE TO STOP. Running a mile at a steady pace doesn't cause this build up. The recruitment of muscles is different.

Please before you go on, learn the difference between what fast twitch and slow twitch fibers are and how they are built. It will make more sense if you understand their make ups.

Be careful, you're not allowed to tell people they don't know what they're talking about around here, apparently.

corpus_validum

All I asked in my original post was to point out ONE sport that was purely cardio. By that I mean, a sport that purely raises your heart rate, because none do. Most people on here misunderstand the meaning of the term cardio, and assume it means anything that isn't lifting weights. It isn't. It is anything that raises your heart rate, and all exercise raises your heart rate.

So you basically asked a ____ question that you already knew the answer to. So what's your point?

I haven't said "Cardio builds muscles" of course it doesn't. I have said what sport IS purely cardio? Such a thing doesn't exist. I am not talking about continuing to build muscle indefinitely weight-lifter style. I am talking about almost every activity we do having a positive effect on our muscles.

The last statement is contentious. As pointed out earlier, depending on the intensity and duration, every activity can have a positive effect on muscles (if fast, powerful) and/or negative effect on muscles (if longer, less intense).

Doesn't mean you should avoid endurance activities, which are absolutely wonderful for increasing fitness levels and burning fat. Just depends on what you're after.

tigersword

Goes back to the OP's original premise that "cardio" activities like running and cycling can build muscles. That depends. Sure, if they're done in explosive but short bursts, max effort, high-intensity levels. But not likely if those same activities are done at long duration, lower-intensity levels.

Some people are not that into weight training. I can preach all the benefits but they still wouldn't care to do it. And I'm OK with that. Though not nearly as effective or expedient as weight training, those individuals can get similar, desirable body recomposition (increase in lean muscle mass) from other activities like plyometrics, HIIT, etc. that require fast, powerful movements.

You're talking about 2 different things. Look, cardio is an aerobic workout, you aren't building muscle doing it. Max burst, high-intensity activities like HIIT, plyometrics, sprinting, etc. aren't cardio exercises, as they are anaerobic in nature. So no, cardio (aerobic) exercise does not build muscle, you need to mix in anaerobic activities as well. Running a mile and doing several sprints with recovery in between are not the same activity at all.

corpus_validum

You're talking about 2 different things. Look, cardio is an aerobic workout, you aren't building muscle doing it. Max burst, high-intensity activities like HIIT, plyometrics, sprinting, etc. aren't cardio exercises, as they are anaerobic in nature. So no, cardio (aerobic) exercise does not build muscle, you need to mix in anaerobic activities as well. Running a mile and doing several sprints with recovery in between are not the same activity at all.

Dude,
I'm not on this silly thread to argue over semantics with you. This isn't directly about aerobic (with oxygen) vs. anaerobic (w/o oxygen) workouts. Please start back on this thread from OP's initial statements before taking it off-tangent:

OP: "Running and cycling build leg muscles, rowing builds them all over, as does swimming, I can't think of any sport where the cardio aspect is balanced with some strengthening effect."

Next poster: "Cardio WILL build muscle!"

OP: "What I am saying is how can there be such a things as pure "cardio"? I can't think of any exercise that raises your heart rate with no muscular force. And muscular force WILL build muscle."

OP: "I am not disagreeing that running builds muscle. Absolutely it does."

OP: "RUNNING can help you build and maintain muscle. CARDIO is purely about heart rate."

Then OP says "Cardiovascular activity doesn't build muscle. I have not at any point said it does, but name a cardiovascular activity that doesn't involve *some* level of resistance."

OP: "Most people on here misunderstand the meaning of the term cardio, and assume it means anything that isn't lifting weights. It isn't. It is anything that raises your heart rate, and all exercise raises your heart rate."

I believe this is the logic OP is trying to lay out there based on her posts; please correct me if I'm wrong OP:
All exercises raise your heart rate. Cardio is "purely about heart rate." So every activity has a cardio element. But there is no purely cardio exercise. All exercises utilize muscular force and some level of resistance. "Muscular force will build muscle." Implying all exercises can build muscles.

I as well as others (I believe) are merely trying to explain to OP that all exercises may NOT build muscles. Depends on whether or not the same activity tends to be more anaerobic vs. aerobic as you well point out. By her most recent posts, I don't think she disagrees with that.

Gawd, I think I spent way too much time on this topic.

Angelabec

OK, thank you to the people who answered my swimming questions. I didnt really read the rest ;o)