Paleo diet

bcattoes

I agree but, your examples "whole grains are bad for you" or "legumes are poisonous" can be true for some people, it's about each individual's experience.

"whole grains caused me problems" or "many people have problems with whole grains" are true statements. "whole grains are bad for you" is not. And I suppose "legumes poisoned me" could be true, but honestly I find that hard to believe unless they had gone bad. But a blanket statement of "legumes are poisonous" is ridiculous. Humans have been eating whole grains and legumes for millennia.

hpsnickers1

What I do know is that I'm healthy. I have all my regularly schedule medical tests. I have no symptoms. I feel great. I eat whole grains. Whatever they are doing to me, I like it. Why are so many people who choose Paleo so agressive and angry when others choose to eat grains?? Seriously, it's my gut.

I'm please to hear your gut is healthy and have no symptoms. I can only speak for myself and personal experience; I also had no symptoms beyond a bloated belly I thought was normal for a woman in her 50s--got me frustrated though because I ate healthy, made my own bread and baked goods, eat from the garden, and followed all the recommendations commonly seen about whole grains, dairy, veg, meatless menus etc.; haven't had a soda in decades, like dessert once in a while, but not a sugar junkie--you get the idea.

So what's with the belly bloating, and muffin top, and why did I still have acne when I'm getting wrinkles? Is it normal for an active woman to get achey joints when only 55? What will it be like when I'm 80? When I signed on here for weight loss, I had no idea I'd find a way of eating that would change my life and make such a dramatic impact on my health. Continuing to do research after the fact, I've learned that grains can affect other organs aside from the gut, cause an inflammatory response in the body, and for some people they do cause severe intestinal distress (celiac). I've also learned that some people have acquired a gene that allows for digestion of the proteins in grains, just as some people have acquired the gene to digest sugars and proteins in dairy. I didn't know grains and dairy were a problem until they were gone from my diet--the safest and most cost effective way to test for a sensitivity is an elimination diet. I already knew what beans did to me (haha!) and don't miss them at all.

Why do I get angry and aggressive? Because it's frustrating to know that people do not have to experience all the 'symptoms' we assume to be 'normal' and are actually just 'common'. I know how I feel and it's so easy by *not eating* certain foods, and we've been fed a boatload of nutritional garbage that benefits no one but corporations who pay for the content in the media and fund much of the research. I read the comments of people on here and in newspapers and magazines, who are disheartened by their poor health and weight loss results ... it's so sad to see this. And it's not necessary. I get angry because the answer is not to be found in trying a new super food or medication. It's found in the healthy vegetables, well fed meat, poultry, fish and game, some fruits and nuts, and healthy fats. Disputing the rationale for why it works (i.e., evolution, paleo evidence, etc.) diverts attention from the results.

This is just my experience and the reason 'I' get angry ...

I like that response. And I can sort of understand it, except when someone says they have no symptoms. I don't understand trying to convince someone that they have symptoms or medical problems when they tell you that they don/t. Yes, at 50 I have not yet reached menopause and so monthly I have some bloating and cramps. But we all know what that is, and it's not grain related.

I fully understand that grains, gluten specifically, is a problem for a large number of people. But it is not a problem for everyone. I've lived and eaten for half a century and I know what foods are good for me and what foods give me problems. Greasy meats are really the only thing that ever give me GI problems, so I generally avoid those.

If I really ate only for health I'd probably be vegetarian because I feel best when I eat a plant based diet. But I also eat for enjoyment and I like meat so I eat meat. The same reason I drink beer and wine. I like it.

My TOM was terrible and was getting worse as I got older - gyn said is was due to age. Severe bloating and water weight gain, severe cramps that would wake me up in the middle of the night. I lived on Midol during those times and after a couple of days the Midol would stop working. I had low back pain during this time. I had sciatica during this time.
What's really interesting is all of this went away when I went Primal (cut out the grain carbs). The bloating went away. I no longer retain water. Cramps are faint to non-existent. I don't need Midol anymore. Low-back pain is gone for good. So is the sciatica. I have a small junk food binge a day or two before - that causes water retention but it goes away when the cravings do. And each month the cravings fade just a bit more.

I've never had anything that severe, but I'm curious if you were heavier before you started paleo? I've noticed over the years that I have more monthly symptoms when I stop exercising and pack on a few pounds (never been really heavy) and that they lessen when I'm exercising, which is pretty consistent with studies I've read.

No, I wasn't. I had spent 6 months previous to Paleo eating healthier and exercising quite a bit - exercise was non-existent before this - I did P90X for the 2 months before (and still suffered the exact same TOM). When I started MFP I was 130lbs or so (I'm 5'2"). The most I have ever been is 140lbs and I had to starve myself to get back to 130 and ended up with Fibromyalgia. I started MFP to keep track of what I was eating to make sure I was getting all of my daily servings of "healthy" foods and just threw in a 10lb loss because I was around 120+lbs before I turned 38 and after 38 the weight started going up. I didn't overeat either and I always had the belly - it was what I was eating.

I did hit 120.4 after 6 months (I lost 9.6lbs) but the conventional wisdom just didn't make sense (also still had the belly). You reach your weight loss by cutting calories and then what? The body has adjusted to the deficit and now you have to try to eat more without gaining. Same with exercise. You do certain amounts and the body adjusts and you don't get the same effect so you have to increase the exercise. And increase and increase. I did Primal Blueprint just as an experiment - out of curiosity and also because of all the research I had done on nutrition during that first 6 months - that research is what really led to my confusion about the conventional nutritional wisdom. Even before this some grains were sacrificed to increase my veggies and fruit and maintain that calorie deficit that is supposedly so important for weight loss. (The doctor that diagnosed my with FM said more whole grains, less flour and sugar, less red meat, blah, blah, blah).

After 4 months of Primal (which made complete sense to me and cleared up all the confusion) - with a lot less exercise - I dropped 9.8lbs of body fat (and yes a little more water) and got to see my muscle definition for the first time - I hit 110.6lbs - I was 136lbs when I was 14 and have never been less than 120 in my adult life (and always had the belly). All my digestive issues (IBS, hiatal hernia, constant flatulence, constipation) are gone. My belly is gone. My sinus issues are gone. My anxiety and tension issues are gone. My eczema is gone. All my TOM issues- gone. My energy has increased tenfold. I don't get sleepy during the day anymore. I don't get headaches anymore - I used to get them a lot.

I can't imagine how much money and time I would've spent on a doctor trying to figure all of this out. The doctor would've just prescribed me pills for all the symptoms like the pill they tried to give me for Fibromyalgia.

bcattoes

No, I wasn't. I had spent 6 months previous to Paleo eating healthier and exercising quite a bit - exercise was non-existent before this - I did P90X for the 2 months before (and still suffered the exact same TOM). When I started MFP I was 130lbs or so (I'm 5'2"). The most I have ever been is 140lbs and I had to starve myself to get back to 130 and ended up with Fibromyalgia. I started MFP to keep track of what I was eating to make sure I was getting all of my daily servings of "healthy" foods and just threw in a 10lb loss because I was around 120+lbs before I turned 38 and after 38 the weight started going up. I didn't overeat either and I always had the belly - it was what I was eating.

I did hit 120.4 after 6 months (I lost 9.6lbs) but the conventional wisdom just didn't make sense (also still had the belly). You reach your weight loss by cutting calories and then what? The body has adjusted to the deficit and now you have to try to eat more without gaining. Same with exercise. You do certain amounts and the body adjusts and you don't get the same effect so you have to increase the exercise. And increase and increase. I did Primal Blueprint just as an experiment - out of curiosity and also because of all the research I had done on nutrition during that first 6 months - that research is what really led to my confusion about the conventional nutritional wisdom. Even before this some grains were sacrificed to increase my veggies and fruit and maintain that calorie deficit that is supposedly so important for weight loss. (The doctor that diagnosed my with FM said more whole grains, less flour and sugar, less red meat, blah, blah, blah).

After 4 months of Primal (which made complete sense to me and cleared up all the confusion) - with a lot less exercise - I dropped 9.8lbs of body fat (and yes a little more water) and got to see my muscle definition for the first time - I hit 110.6lbs - I was 136lbs when I was 14 and have never been less than 120 in my adult life (and always had the belly). All my digestive issues (IBS, hiatal hernia, constant flatulence, constipation) are gone. My belly is gone. My sinus issues are gone. My anxiety and tension issues are gone. My eczema is gone. All my TOM issues- gone. My energy has increased tenfold. I don't get sleepy during the day anymore. I don't get headaches anymore - I used to get them a lot.

I can't imagine how much money and time I would've spent on a doctor trying to figure all of this out. The doctor would've just prescribed me pills for all the symptoms like the pill they tried to give me for Fibromyalgia.

Wow, that does sound like grains were giving you are problem. That interesting about Fibromyalgia. I have a friend who has been diagnosed with it. I will mention this to her, but unfortunately she does not eat healthy or exercise regularly. She tried Adkins years ago when it was new but didn't stick with it and got kidney stones so I don't know if it will be of any use.

But this ---

You reach your weight loss by cutting calories and then what? The body has adjusted to the deficit and now you have to try to eat more without gaining. Same with exercise. You do certain amounts and the body adjusts and you don't get the same effect so you have to increase the exercise. And increase and increase.

--- has not been my experience. I've always just cut calories and exercised to lose weight. As long as I continue the same exercise I've never gained it back. For me, it really has always been about exercise, but then I have eaten a healthy diet rich in whole foods for almost 30 years and never been overweight by much, so that could be why.

Drunkadelic

This is exactly how I feel about it. I am still fairly young, I've been an athlete since I was 8 and the only serious health problem I've had is tendinitis. I feel blessed to be so lucky.

Since eliminating grains and tying to keep relatively low carbohydrate consumption (50-100g) I have never felt better. I didn't realize the problems I had until I didn't have them anymore. I went through my whole life thinking that it was "normal." I'm actually pretty ticked about it, but I won't get into that. I'm just am so glad I found out when I did instead of when I'm 85 and dying of heart disease/diabetes.

All I'm trying to do is get the word out. I want everyone to be as healthy as possible. I want to tell people it's not completely their fault that they got so heavy or are having such a hard time losing weight. I'm so freaking pleased with how I feel now. That's why I did so much of my own research. That way when people laugh at me and tell me I'm killing myself, I have real hard facts to point to and say "look at that - and there is more where that came from."

What makes me angry is when people are rude to me about it. It's not like I'm trying to sell anything, I just want to help as many people as I can. I KNOW this has worked for me and I've heard/read/seen so many awesome success stories. I have spent about 80% of my free time in the past few months doing research and the more I learn, the more excited I get about it. So when someone comes along just to be a jerk, yea, it makes me pretty mad.

This post is very contradictory. You say you get angry when people tell you that you are doing something wrong and killing yourself, as a justification for doing the same to others. How then, can you be surprised if you are met with anger in return. There is no single healthy way to eat that will work for everyone. Grains work for me. If Paleo works for you, then lucky you to have found something that works. But don't try to pretend that anyone else is doing something wrong when they have a bowl of oatmeal or brown rice.

You are twisting my words. This is what I said "...That way when people laugh at me and tell me I'm killing myself, I have real hard facts to point to and say "look at that - and there is more where that came from." - Those are people who notice how I eat, I talk to them about it, and they say stuff like "yea, but aren't saturated fats bad for you?" or "don't we need whole grains?" I show them my research, talk to them about it, and if they don't want to listen, no big deal. I tried.

What makes me mad is when I get on a forum to answer someones questions who is already interested in Paleo/Primal/low-carb and others are just plain rude. Of course I'm going to come here and give my opinion. It's exciting to me that another person is interested in doing something that I know will be awesome for them! It's not like I go looking for vegan/vegetarian threads to berate how they eat. I don't care what they do. That's their decision and I'm not going to go shove my opinion down their throat. It's a pointless waste of time. And if you think I sit here and judge everyone for eating grains, you are completely wrong. The greater majority of my MFP friends follow the Standard American Diet and I don't tell them they are killing themselves or anything dramatic like that. All I do is talk about my successes, my hardships, help people through tough times and give my opinion only when it's asked of me. It's not like I run around slapping whole grains out of the hands of my unsuspecting co-workers... although, I have to admit that'd be pretty hysterical...

If you find me trolling a vegan thread preaching Paleo, then I give you my permission to call me a hypocrite.

hpsnickers1

No, I wasn't. I had spent 6 months previous to Paleo eating healthier and exercising quite a bit - exercise was non-existent before this - I did P90X for the 2 months before (and still suffered the exact same TOM). When I started MFP I was 130lbs or so (I'm 5'2"). The most I have ever been is 140lbs and I had to starve myself to get back to 130 and ended up with Fibromyalgia. I started MFP to keep track of what I was eating to make sure I was getting all of my daily servings of "healthy" foods and just threw in a 10lb loss because I was around 120+lbs before I turned 38 and after 38 the weight started going up. I didn't overeat either and I always had the belly - it was what I was eating.

I did hit 120.4 after 6 months (I lost 9.6lbs) but the conventional wisdom just didn't make sense (also still had the belly). You reach your weight loss by cutting calories and then what? The body has adjusted to the deficit and now you have to try to eat more without gaining. Same with exercise. You do certain amounts and the body adjusts and you don't get the same effect so you have to increase the exercise. And increase and increase. I did Primal Blueprint just as an experiment - out of curiosity and also because of all the research I had done on nutrition during that first 6 months - that research is what really led to my confusion about the conventional nutritional wisdom. Even before this some grains were sacrificed to increase my veggies and fruit and maintain that calorie deficit that is supposedly so important for weight loss. (The doctor that diagnosed my with FM said more whole grains, less flour and sugar, less red meat, blah, blah, blah).

After 4 months of Primal (which made complete sense to me and cleared up all the confusion) - with a lot less exercise - I dropped 9.8lbs of body fat (and yes a little more water) and got to see my muscle definition for the first time - I hit 110.6lbs - I was 136lbs when I was 14 and have never been less than 120 in my adult life (and always had the belly). All my digestive issues (IBS, hiatal hernia, constant flatulence, constipation) are gone. My belly is gone. My sinus issues are gone. My anxiety and tension issues are gone. My eczema is gone. All my TOM issues- gone. My energy has increased tenfold. I don't get sleepy during the day anymore. I don't get headaches anymore - I used to get them a lot.

I can't imagine how much money and time I would've spent on a doctor trying to figure all of this out. The doctor would've just prescribed me pills for all the symptoms like the pill they tried to give me for Fibromyalgia.

Wow, that does sound like grains were giving you are problem. That interesting about Fibromyalgia. I have a friend who has been diagnosed with it. I will mention this to her, but unfortunately she does not eat healthy or exercise regularly. She tried Adkins years ago when it was new but didn't stick with it and got kidney stones so I don't know if it will be of any use.

But this ---

You reach your weight loss by cutting calories and then what? The body has adjusted to the deficit and now you have to try to eat more without gaining. Same with exercise. You do certain amounts and the body adjusts and you don't get the same effect so you have to increase the exercise. And increase and increase.

--- has not been my experience. I've always just cut calories and exercised to lose weight. As long as I continue the same exercise I've never gained it back. For me, it really has always been about exercise, but then I have eaten a healthy diet rich in whole foods for almost 30 years and never been overweight by much, so that could be why.

When (not if because it's an ongoing battle) I eat too much sugar the FM pain comes back - to this day. As far as grains - I don't know if that hurt my FM - my diet was so bad in the beginning that just the change made the difference. But the exercise did help. It was hard at first but got easier and I took the pills for about a month.

questionablemethods

To add to some of the previous discussion regarding wheat tolerance, I just came across this interesting blog on Dr. Kurt Harris's site, "N = 1 and Wheat" http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/4/6/n1-and-wheat.html

I'm not going to tell anyone (except probably my husband and future children--but that's because I feel at least partially responsible for their health) that they might want to think twice about wheat. As Dr. Harris basically says, "You pay your nickel and you take your chances" but "I eat it and I feel fine" might not be the best way to evaluate. I predict that we'll be hearing a lot more about the problems with wheat in the next few years -- that is, unless the grain industry has anything to say about it (e.g. http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2011/09/08/the-grain-producers-respond-to-wheat-belly/)

bcattoes

To add to some of the previous discussion regarding wheat tolerance, I just came across this interesting blog on Dr. Kurt Harris's site, "N = 1 and Wheat" http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/4/6/n1-and-wheat.html

I'm not going to tell anyone (except probably my husband and future children--but that's because I feel at least partially responsible for their health) that they might want to think twice about wheat. As Dr. Harris basically says, "You pay your nickel and you take your chances" but "I eat it and I feel fine" might not be the best way to evaluate. I predict that we'll be hearing a lot more about the problems with wheat in the next few years -- that is, unless the grain industry has anything to say about it (e.g. http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2011/09/08/the-grain-producers-respond-to-wheat-belly/)

A nutritionist friend says the same thing about wheat. That probably many more people have issues than realize it. But she does not lump other grains in with it as many non-clinicians seem to. The way I look at it is if there are no symptoms, either felt or to overall health, then it isn't much of an issue in my book.

Grokette

To add to some of the previous discussion regarding wheat tolerance, I just came across this interesting blog on Dr. Kurt Harris's site, "N = 1 and Wheat" http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/4/6/n1-and-wheat.html

I'm not going to tell anyone (except probably my husband and future children--but that's because I feel at least partially responsible for their health) that they might want to think twice about wheat. As Dr. Harris basically says, "You pay your nickel and you take your chances" but "I eat it and I feel fine" might not be the best way to evaluate. I predict that we'll be hearing a lot more about the problems with wheat in the next few years -- that is, unless the grain industry has anything to say about it (e.g. http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2011/09/08/the-grain-producers-respond-to-wheat-belly/)

A nutritionist friend says the same thing about wheat. That probably many more people have issues than realize it. But she does not lump other grains in with it as many non-clinicians seem to. The way I look at it is if there are no symptoms, either felt or to overall health, then it isn't much of an issue in my book.

The problem lies with the damage that you don't see or feel today..............

I would not feel comfortable putting something in my body that may have damaging affects in the future. I am lucky to be alive and have use of all my limbs..............I am not going to risk being in a position later in life for that to be affected again.

bcattoes

To add to some of the previous discussion regarding wheat tolerance, I just came across this interesting blog on Dr. Kurt Harris's site, "N = 1 and Wheat" http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2011/4/6/n1-and-wheat.html

I'm not going to tell anyone (except probably my husband and future children--but that's because I feel at least partially responsible for their health) that they might want to think twice about wheat. As Dr. Harris basically says, "You pay your nickel and you take your chances" but "I eat it and I feel fine" might not be the best way to evaluate. I predict that we'll be hearing a lot more about the problems with wheat in the next few years -- that is, unless the grain industry has anything to say about it (e.g. http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2011/09/08/the-grain-producers-respond-to-wheat-belly/)

A nutritionist friend says the same thing about wheat. That probably many more people have issues than realize it. But she does not lump other grains in with it as many non-clinicians seem to. The way I look at it is if there are no symptoms, either felt or to overall health, then it isn't much of an issue in my book.

The problem lies with the damage that you don't see or feel today..............

I would not feel comfortable putting something in my body that may have damaging affects in the future. I am lucky to be alive and have use of all my limbs..............I am not going to risk being in a position later in life for that to be affected again.

Well, I ride in a car, a plane, a bus, a train. I breathe. I drink water straight from the tap, occasionally straight from a stream. I sometimes eat junk food. I touch my face. I drink too much. So what the heck. Plus my family and forefathers ate wheat and lived to ripe old ages so I think wheat is actually the least of my worries. I'm going to go fix some for dinner right now. Mmmmmm.

freerange

Why are so many people who choose Paleo so agressive and angry when others choose to eat grains?? Seriously, it's my gut.

I have been through this before, probably with you. Show me one thread where a person that subscribes to Paleo/Primal started this BS, it is ALWAYS the haters that start the BS arguments we only stand up for our healthy lifestyle, evidenced by the asinine statements below. I can’t count how many times a thread like this starts with someone asking for information and the haters come on with all kinds of false, misleading, snide statements and downright lies.

Only if you track them down and kill them with your bare hands.

Hmm, so they go to all the trouble of killing animals, cutting or ripping (did they have knives??) them open, breaking the bones open to suck the marrow, but they wouldn't pick a fresh pea off the vine and eat it? Man, those cave dudes don't seem like they made efficient use of their time and energy.

kay, yeah maybe a little. But when people make silly statements like "eating grains will give you leaky gut syndrome" it's really hard not to.

I know I'm wasting my time, but honestly all this week I've been working on a project that requires data runs that take hours to run so I find myself totally bored. Plus, someone's got to stand up for the poor defenseless grains of the world.

bcattoes

Why are so many people who choose Paleo so agressive and angry when others choose to eat grains?? Seriously, it's my gut.

I have been through this before, probably with you. Show me one thread where a person that subscribes to Paleo/Primal started this BS, it is ALWAYS the haters that start the BS arguments we only stand up for our healthy lifestyle, evidenced by the asinine statements below. I can’t count how many times a thread like this starts with someone asking for information and the haters come on with all kinds of false, misleading, snide statements and downright lies.

Only if you track them down and kill them with your bare hands.

Hmm, so they go to all the trouble of killing animals, cutting or ripping (did they have knives??) them open, breaking the bones open to suck the marrow, but they wouldn't pick a fresh pea off the vine and eat it? Man, those cave dudes don't seem like they made efficient use of their time and energy.

kay, yeah maybe a little. But when people make silly statements like "eating grains will give you leaky gut syndrome" it's really hard not to.

I know I'm wasting my time, but honestly all this week I've been working on a project that requires data runs that take hours to run so I find myself totally bored. Plus, someone's got to stand up for the poor defenseless grains of the world.

There is negativity on both sides. But my personal experience has been anger and agression when I say that whole grains are healthy. I have never once said or inplied that paleo/primal or any other high protein/low carb diet is unhealthy. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the opposite. But my diet, which includes whole grains, is continually attacked. When I insist that I have no medical problems that's when the hostility usually begins. I "don't get it". I have medical problems that have no symptoms and can't be detected through medical tests. I'm just kidding myself that I feel good and lose weight while eating them. yadda, yadda, yadda. Any amount of medical evidence that whole grains are not unhealthy for everyone is met with more hostility. That's been my personal experience. But, as I say, I have also seen hostility from others, mostly vegetarian/vegans. I suppose it's just passion about what these people believe is "right". But I really do eat whole grains and have a healthy gut. Sorry if that offends anyone.

questionablemethods

Why are so many people who choose Paleo so agressive and angry when others choose to eat grains?? Seriously, it's my gut.

I have been through this before, probably with you. Show me one thread where a person that subscribes to Paleo/Primal started this BS, it is ALWAYS the haters that start the BS arguments we only stand up for our healthy lifestyle, evidenced by the asinine statements below. I can’t count how many times a thread like this starts with someone asking for information and the haters come on with all kinds of false, misleading, snide statements and downright lies.

Only if you track them down and kill them with your bare hands.

Hmm, so they go to all the trouble of killing animals, cutting or ripping (did they have knives??) them open, breaking the bones open to suck the marrow, but they wouldn't pick a fresh pea off the vine and eat it? Man, those cave dudes don't seem like they made efficient use of their time and energy.

kay, yeah maybe a little. But when people make silly statements like "eating grains will give you leaky gut syndrome" it's really hard not to.

I know I'm wasting my time, but honestly all this week I've been working on a project that requires data runs that take hours to run so I find myself totally bored. Plus, someone's got to stand up for the poor defenseless grains of the world.

There is negativity on both sides. But my personal experience has been anger and agression when I say that whole grains are healthy. I have never once said or inplied that paleo/primal or any other high protein/low carb diet is unhealthy. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the opposite. But my diet, which includes whole grains, is continually attacked. When I insist that I have no medical problems that's when the hostility usually begins. I "don't get it". I have medical problems that have no symptoms and can't be detected through medical tests. I'm just kidding myself that I feel good and lose weight while eating them. yadda, yadda, yadda. Any amount of medical evidence that whole grains are not unhealthy for everyone is met with more hostility. That's been my personal experience. But, as I say, I have also seen hostility from others, mostly vegetarian/vegans. I suppose it's just passion about what these people believe is "right". But I really do eat whole grains and have a healthy gut. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Bringing it back to the first page of this particular thread. Here's the 2nd response to the OP's question:

"Opinion: Paleo eating is a silly marketing gimmick making someone money."

I've seen this on a couple other threads (haven't done a thorough meta-analysis). When I've pointed this out.... crickets.

Grokette

Why are so many people who choose Paleo so agressive and angry when others choose to eat grains?? Seriously, it's my gut.

I have been through this before, probably with you. Show me one thread where a person that subscribes to Paleo/Primal started this BS, it is ALWAYS the haters that start the BS arguments we only stand up for our healthy lifestyle, evidenced by the asinine statements below. I can’t count how many times a thread like this starts with someone asking for information and the haters come on with all kinds of false, misleading, snide statements and downright lies.

Only if you track them down and kill them with your bare hands.

Hmm, so they go to all the trouble of killing animals, cutting or ripping (did they have knives??) them open, breaking the bones open to suck the marrow, but they wouldn't pick a fresh pea off the vine and eat it? Man, those cave dudes don't seem like they made efficient use of their time and energy.

kay, yeah maybe a little. But when people make silly statements like "eating grains will give you leaky gut syndrome" it's really hard not to.

I know I'm wasting my time, but honestly all this week I've been working on a project that requires data runs that take hours to run so I find myself totally bored. Plus, someone's got to stand up for the poor defenseless grains of the world.

There is negativity on both sides. But my personal experience has been anger and agression when I say that whole grains are healthy. I have never once said or inplied that paleo/primal or any other high protein/low carb diet is unhealthy. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the opposite. But my diet, which includes whole grains, is continually attacked. When I insist that I have no medical problems that's when the hostility usually begins. I "don't get it". I have medical problems that have no symptoms and can't be detected through medical tests. I'm just kidding myself that I feel good and lose weight while eating them. yadda, yadda, yadda. Any amount of medical evidence that whole grains are not unhealthy for everyone is met with more hostility. That's been my personal experience. But, as I say, I have also seen hostility from others, mostly vegetarian/vegans. I suppose it's just passion about what these people believe is "right". But I really do eat whole grains and have a healthy gut. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Why do you go into the Paleo and Primal threads to begin with?

Just to start arguments with those of us that are eating this way. We are trying to give encouragement, advice or just valid information and you come in with the whole "healthy whole grains" mumbo jumbo that is not necessary.

Since you think grains are sooo healthy, comment in those threads instead of instigating arguments with those of us that have researched and feel otherwise.

questionablemethods

Why do you go into the Paleo and Primal threads to begin with?

Just to start arguments with those of us that are eating this way. We are trying to give encouragement, advice or just valid information and you come in with the whole "healthy whole grains" mumbo jumbo that is not necessary.

Since you think grains are sooo healthy, comment in those threads instead of instigating arguments with those of us that have researched and feel otherwise.

Again, to be fair, the OP asked for "thoughts and opinion" and bcattoes has opinions:

"From what I've heard on here and read on the internet, it's the basic concept of most healthy diets - eat whole unprocessed food as much as possible - with the exception that this one eliminates all grain from the diet. So, if you really enjoy whole grains, then it might not be for you. But if you don't really care for whole grains, or have digestive issues that necessitate limiting grains anyway, it might be for you."

Not exactly inflammatory.

Grokette

Why do you go into the Paleo and Primal threads to begin with?

Just to start arguments with those of us that are eating this way. We are trying to give encouragement, advice or just valid information and you come in with the whole "healthy whole grains" mumbo jumbo that is not necessary.

Since you think grains are sooo healthy, comment in those threads instead of instigating arguments with those of us that have researched and feel otherwise.

Again, to be fair, the OP asked for "thoughts and opinion" and bcattoes has opinions:

"From what I've heard on here and read on the internet, it's the basic concept of most healthy diets - eat whole unprocessed food as much as possible - with the exception that this one eliminates all grain from the diet. So, if you really enjoy whole grains, then it might not be for you. But if you don't really care for whole grains, or have digestive issues that necessitate limiting grains anyway, it might be for you."

Not exactly inflammatory.

Maybe not this exact post, but many of the posts are inflammatory in nature.............

digitalsteel

I think the paleo and primal diets have a lot of good information behind them. But as all diet programs, I think they should be used as a source of information. The best diet is knowing how a food effects your body. Read some of the info from my signature.

questionablemethods

I think the paleo and primal diets have a lot of good information behind them. But as all diet programs, I think they should be used as a source of information. The best diet is knowing how a food effects your body.

I agree. I think it is a mistake to just read one diet book and follow its recommendations blindly -- no matter what that book recommends.

bcattoes

Why are so many people who choose Paleo so agressive and angry when others choose to eat grains?? Seriously, it's my gut.

I have been through this before, probably with you. Show me one thread where a person that subscribes to Paleo/Primal started this BS, it is ALWAYS the haters that start the BS arguments we only stand up for our healthy lifestyle, evidenced by the asinine statements below. I can’t count how many times a thread like this starts with someone asking for information and the haters come on with all kinds of false, misleading, snide statements and downright lies.

Only if you track them down and kill them with your bare hands.

Hmm, so they go to all the trouble of killing animals, cutting or ripping (did they have knives??) them open, breaking the bones open to suck the marrow, but they wouldn't pick a fresh pea off the vine and eat it? Man, those cave dudes don't seem like they made efficient use of their time and energy.

kay, yeah maybe a little. But when people make silly statements like "eating grains will give you leaky gut syndrome" it's really hard not to.

I know I'm wasting my time, but honestly all this week I've been working on a project that requires data runs that take hours to run so I find myself totally bored. Plus, someone's got to stand up for the poor defenseless grains of the world.

There is negativity on both sides. But my personal experience has been anger and agression when I say that whole grains are healthy. I have never once said or inplied that paleo/primal or any other high protein/low carb diet is unhealthy. In fact, I've repeatedly stated the opposite. But my diet, which includes whole grains, is continually attacked. When I insist that I have no medical problems that's when the hostility usually begins. I "don't get it". I have medical problems that have no symptoms and can't be detected through medical tests. I'm just kidding myself that I feel good and lose weight while eating them. yadda, yadda, yadda. Any amount of medical evidence that whole grains are not unhealthy for everyone is met with more hostility. That's been my personal experience. But, as I say, I have also seen hostility from others, mostly vegetarian/vegans. I suppose it's just passion about what these people believe is "right". But I really do eat whole grains and have a healthy gut. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Why do you go into the Paleo and Primal threads to begin with?

Just to start arguments with those of us that are eating this way. We are trying to give encouragement, advice or just valid information and you come in with the whole "healthy whole grains" mumbo jumbo that is not necessary.

Since you think grains are sooo healthy, comment in those threads instead of instigating arguments with those of us that have researched and feel otherwise.

The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. But when I see a falsehood such as "whole grains are bad for everyone" stated as fact I will dispute it. Why do you keep trying to convince me I have medical problems when I assure that I don't or try to get me to give up grains? I don't ever tell you that grains won't hurt "you" or that you should eat them.

digitalsteel

Grains, like everything, are something that can be incorporated into a healthy diet. The question people should be looking into are the quantities of grains they consume. For the majority, the quantity tends to be too high. Grains are pushed as a healthy alternative to other foods. They are healthy, just not at the levels we are told to eat them.

questionablemethods

Okay, perhaps this is unfair but I am honestly just interested in the psychology of individual choice surrounding food (harkening back to that n = 1 blog post I linked to previously). Why do you say the following about wheat?

The way I look at it is if there are no symptoms, either felt or to overall health, then it isn't much of an issue in my book.

But say this about saturated fat?

I don't eat low fat, but I eat low saturated fat which would mean reduced fat dairy because the saturated fat in dairy has been shown to increase risk of heart disease.

Is it just that the research on wheat* is, thus far, relatively paltry compared with saturated fat? Should I just keep not worrying about saturated fat unless I get some symptoms of heart disease?

If heart disease is a concern, this my be of interest (I've posted it on a couple other threads): http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/09/02/the-china-study-wheat-and-heart-disease-oh-my/

(I'm telling you, wheat is in the zeitgeist or something.)


*I mean studies of wheat vs. no wheat, not whole wheat vs. more refined wheat.