Opinions Please?

jnettiedotson

You already know what to do, you don't need MFP's approval. Do it.

SailingMike

I am a lawyer who also has had bad things happen in my own family.

ALWAYS protect the children. ALWAYS protect the children.

kasmir8199

This is definitely a heavy thing to have on your mind. I feel your compassion for these kids and for your friend, however, this is something that's very touchy and very hard to assess from the outside looking in. You've considered a LOT of great factors. You've noticed conversations she's had with others (Facebook) and you have a good feel for her natural demeanor, however...and at first glance, this may not sound like what you want to hear, but more factors need to be considered before bringing social services into the picture. I'm a qualified mental health professional, I have a masters in rehab psychology (undergrad in psychology) and I've counseled families for years in these types of crises situation...social serves aren't always the most knowledgeable bunch. There are GREAT ones out there, but nowadays, you have many that are purely textbook. On the surface, in reading your post, anyone would say "REPORT IT!" and you know what, I had that thought too. Then I thought about those kids. Kids are amazingly loyal. Are they better off with the mom or without. And I'm talking about the mom as a "mom", not the mom as a jealous girlfriend, or the mom as a lazy girl or however else others may feel about her. How does SHE relate to her kids? I have 2 kids myself. They are challenging, I'll admit. I've called my kids brats before, but they're my brats and there's nothing I wouldn't do to protect them from harm.

Things to consider:

What are her reasons for wanting her kids back?
What resources does she have to kick her habits (very hard habits to kick, but not impossible)?
Would there be a man involved in the situation and is HE trustworthy?
Do the kids WANT to be with their mother?

My advice: don't go to social services. Instead, contact a community services board or a local family therapy practice. Get the family help first as a unit to see if they can make it work. They can get her the help she needs and the kids as well. they need to be rehab-ed as a family, not separately. When social services get in the picture, it's hard as heck to get them out, and they can come in an cause undue harm just form not truly understanding the situation. The only way to understand the situation is to have a therapist spend as much time with the family as s/he can (which is what I used to do. I spent 2-10 hours with each of my families, 2-3x a week...that's a lot of intensive care, lol. But that's what they needed...and they succeeded).

I know this is heavy...this is SO heavy. I wish you all the very best!

dmpizza

Its not about you or her, its about her kids.

Get a print of her Facebook rants and fax it to the judge. She never needs to know any of that.

SailingMike

I don't know what I would do, but I do know what I WOULDN'T do, and that is ask for opinions on here.
After reading some of the recent red hot debates, I'm beginning to think stupidity is running rampant.

I don't know... I am seeing some good solid advice here today.

There are always stupid people, but most of what I have seen in these forums are great people trying to be kind and helpful. I am sorry your experience has been different.

jnettiedotson

This is definitely a heavy thing to have on your mind. I feel your compassion for these kids and for your friend, however, this is something that's very touchy and very hard to assess from the outside looking in. You've considered a LOT of great factors. You've noticed conversations she's had with others (Facebook) and you have a good feel for her natural demeanor, however...and at first glance, this may not sound like what you want to hear, but more factors need to be considered before bringing social services into the picture. I'm a qualified mental health professional, I have a masters in rehab psychology (undergrad in psychology) and I've counseled families for years in these types of crises situation...social serves aren't always the most knowledgeable bunch. There are GREAT ones out there, but nowadays, you have many that are purely textbook. On the surface, in reading your post, anyone would say "REPORT IT!" and you know what, I had that thought too. Then I thought about those kids. Kids are amazingly loyal. Are they better off with the mom or without. And I'm talking about the mom as a "mom", not the mom as a jealous girlfriend, or the mom as a lazy girl or however else others may feel about her. How does SHE relate to her kids? I have 2 kids myself. They are challenging, I'll admit. I've called my kids brats before, but they're my brats and there's nothing I wouldn't do to protect them from harm.

Things to consider:

What are her reasons for wanting her kids back?
What resources does she have to kick her habits (very hard habits to kick, but not impossible)?
Would there be a man involved in the situation and is HE trustworthy?
Do the kids WANT to be with their mother?

My advice: don't go to social services. Instead, contact a community services board or a local family therapy practice. Get the family help first as a unit to see if they can make it work. They can get her the help she needs and the kids as well. they need to be rehab-ed as a family, not separately. When social services get in the picture, it's hard as heck to get them out, and they can come in an cause undue harm just form not truly understanding the situation. The only way to understand the situation is to have a therapist spend as much time with the family as s/he can (which is what I used to do. I spent 2-10 hours with each of my families, 2-3x a week...that's a lot of intensive care, lol. But that's what they needed...and they succeeded).

I know this is heavy...this is SO heavy. I wish you all the very best!

I considered all of these things as I was reading thru replies, but is therapy free? I'm thinking a single mom working at Walmart who has a coke habit at 20 with three kids and one on the way probably couldn't afford....you. Maybe if SS is involved, and it's court ordered it's a different story, but one seeking help alone would have to pay for it right? Also, doesn't SHE have to want the help too? It's not like the OP can just sign her up and hope she shows, for the children's sake.

PalmettoparkGuy

It's not even something you need to decide. When it comes to children, you MUST report what you know before those kids end up really screwed up or dead.

ilookthetype

Do you really have to ask? Report it.

MadeOfMagic

This one is going to be long, only cause of personal experience, sorrys.
I grew up in a household of alcoholic parents, and I can't tell you the extent that my parents abandoned and abused me. Eventually I ran away for a month to aunt's house (when I was 9 yrs old). My friend called me at my aunt's house and told me to come home, when I came home there were cops waiting with my mother, they took her parents rights away because she didn't report me missing until a week after I was gone because she was to drunk to notice/care that I was even gone. Than I went to an orphanage and it was the best thing that ever happened to me; at first it sucks because you have all this hopes that your parent will change for you, but some parents just don't. That orphanage opened up so many opportunities for me, I would constantly go to school, always do homework and they exposed to a ton of activities I didn't even know existed.

When i lived with my parents they would constantly neglect me and abuse my physically. I would be out on the streets sometimes all night, sleeping in stairwells because it was better to sleep on streets than be around my drunken parents. I failed 1st and 2nd grade because my mother give a damn if I went to school because she was to drunk to give a crap. We barely ever had food around because my mother/father would spend it on booze and cigs. I had to climb in trash by apartment building to find food, other times I would scout for bottles around town and take them to recycle and get money to buy tiny bit of food.

I am going to tell you do the right thing and don't let those kids suffer with that sort of mother, the longer she drinks and abuses drugs the worse it will get, eventually she will have bad mood swings and chances are those will get either physically or mentally abused on weekly basis. My parents were nice people until they became alcoholics and became depressed. My parents only drank...and if you're friend is abusing other drugs on top of it than those kids are literally being set up for failure. There are so many loving homes that would adopt those precious children, but if they stay with the mother chances are they will end up just like her because of the examples she sets.

Not everyone is fit to be a mother, and those children do not deserve to suffer because of their mother. If I never went to an orphanage and got adopted, I would have failed in high school, never gone to college and have crappy job because of it; not to mention probably be addicted to alcohol and other drugs simply because of the environment I would have grown up around, and thank god I didn't, I wouldn't have the same abitions, education and passions as I do now.

When it comes down to it, this is not just about the friendship, those kids deserve to grow up in health environment, especially now that the 4th child is on it's way there is no way she will be able to take care properly of them all.

I have 2 suggestions, try the first one first, and than the second if first doesn't work:
1. Give her a shot to change, some people really just need an awakening. Have a one on one chat with your friend, make sure she is sober. Explain to her that you love her and want this relationship to blossom, but because she has began abusing substances she has abandoned her well being and her children's. Nicely explain how her actions effect everyone around her negatively. Try to understand she is going to sensitive, but also be firm and tell her she has everything it takes to be a great mother, but those substances are preventing from being that amazing person. Explain to her not just the long term effects on her health but also on her children. Tell her if she doesn't want to do it for herself, do it for her children, because she gave them life and she must care for them. She took that responsibility when she gave them life and she has to discipline them now, they will never have respect for her if she treats herself that way.

Tell her you're willing to help her to get through this, tell her you will be her support buddy, anytime she is craving those substances tell her to call you so you can talk her out of it. Also invite her to start doing things together, take the kids to the park together couple times a week, go have girl's night out to bowling or anything that will keep her bust and happy, let it remind her that she be happy in other ways but she has abandoned those things when she began abusing alcohol/drugs. It may be difficult at first but if you're her true friend be there for her as long as she wants to change, she will need you, she needs someone to believe in her that she can change, you'll need to encourage her and show her ways to make her life easier and happier so she won't rely on drugs/booze to keep her temporarly happy.


2. Before you try option 1, I would gather evidence of her abuse, go to her house, take pictures secretly of the environment (anything she uses for drugs, empty/full alcohol bottles, etc.)- that kids are being raised in. Just in case she freaks out and doesn't want to see you again, you want to make sure you have all the evidence needed to get her parental right's taken away. Otherwise social services will look over it if there is no concrete evidence, thats the very reason I got abused for years. We had social services come all the time, even my teachers reported my mother because I had bruises and always skipped school. My mom would always have booze put away when they came and was sober enough to pass their inspection, but underneath that layers of lies I was beaten more than ever.

So what I would do is offer to watch the kids one night and talk to them-play date with yours, find out how their mother is treating them, ask them if they do their homework, write down notes, etc. Gather as much info and evidence as you can before you go to child services, make sure you've pictures, etc.

When she refuses option 1, tell her you are going to report her to child services, tell her you were trying to give her a chance but that you gathered all the evidence enough to get them take away and tell her if she refused to get help and let you help her than you will take all the stuff you've gathered to child services; explain the extend of evidence you have. Tell her you care about her and care a lot about her children, and that you want the best for both but this addiction is ruining her life, her kid's lives and your relationship. Tell her it will be difficult and tempting but you will be here for her, she will need to join a support group. There is ton in churches, go to the first meeting with her so she actually goes and feels like you're there to support her through her journey. Understand that she will NEED you to guide her back to the right direction, if you really care about her you will have really there for her, but ONLY if she truly wants to change her life.

Ask her what's important to her... her kids or her addiction, this friendship or her addiction, her health or her addiction? If she doesn't choose her kids and well being over addiction than you have to do what you have to do and report her. You want to make sure you gave her a chance to change and you did everything you could. It always sad to take kids from their mother, but a mother who doesn't care enough about them to quit doesn't deserve them. Don't feel guilty if that what you have to reserve too, those kids will appreciate in ways you never image as they grow up, I couldn't be more thankful that my mother's right were taken away and I ended up with an amazing family who loved, cared and did everything for me.

This is what I would do, but you know your friend better than I do, so try option 1 than 2 if you have too. I really hope your friend sees what she is doing to her self, her family and her friendships, and I hope that she will want to change, she deserves a chance, good luck and hope all goes well!

odusgolp

I would print out screen shots of her posts on fb and bring them to the judge shes working with. Seriously.

I would print it all, call, and give it to department of children and family services. Frankly, I'd keep her as a FB friend just so I could do this. She has no right being near them if your post is accurate. And if you have knowledge of her behavior I feel it's your responsibility to report it.

When it comes to kids, game on.

odusgolp

Casey Anthony.

Just sayin.

deadstarsunburn

Definitely report it. I work at a company that deals with what happens when no one speaks up and it's terrible.

To the question about free therapy there is free counseling through counties. You would just need to google "legal aid" and find a number for the county. You'll have to do some research because it brings up a lot of financial assistance stuff, but there are normally shelter numbers and free counseling especially for children.

maria25428

Make the right decision.. the poor children can't defend themselves.. let her wreck her own life, but not theres.

bry_all01

OR, you can give me her name and I'll report it for you.

billsica

Your lucky that you can have that moral deli-ma. I work in a school and am forced to report something like that to CPS.

Oh, and my opinion. For the kids, call CPS, they just investigate, your only calling to make sure everything is on the up and up.

kapeluza

She sounds lIke a Casey Anthony waiting to happen. Report her. Screen shot what she said as evidence. Children don't deserve pathetic parents like that.

Kaycurrier

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, trust your gut. I would do the same, you are makign good choices and you could potentially save these kids lives!

LovingMe19

Thank you all for your opinions. I will be contacting SS today. Unfortunately she deleted me from her account on Facebook since I gave her a piece of my mind last night. So I will have to find another way of getting those conversations. But I WILL do it. Thank you everyone.

Dtho5159

Unfortunately unless you have solid evidence of her posts (not sure if you took screen shots or not) CPS may not do anything. i had 3 anon calls to them when I lived in MA about my friends sister. She was doing drugs and getting drunk around her kids, letting them drink out of her beer bottles, leaving them alone etc. They were 3 kids under the age of 6 at the time. They did NOTHING because I didn't have evidence. Good luck, I hope you get results.

Becky1971

I agree!

I have reported my own sister in the past, did all I could for her before getting to that point but was no choice. I have made a couple other reports too, where I wasn't sure about making a report, but turned out things were lots worse than I suspected. There is no harm in passing on what you know. Once you do it, it's out of your hands.

Kids first, friendship second. Is it really a friendship anyway if you only connect when SHE needs something? I am an early childhood special education teacher (not working this year) and trust me, these kids need you to intervien. NOW. Good luck.