"Nice" guys? blech!

lemonadem

He also used to say that "the man in the mirror, is the most important person on Earth"! Word's to live by.

Micheal Jackson?

Hahaha... nice

Carl01

Well, damn, I have sworn off of bad boys, cause that's all I've ever dated and things have never turned out well. Reading this makes me want to reconsider my idea of trying something new, "nice guys".. I just wonder then, if bad boys and nice guys are no good, then what's left? :huh:

Decent...not a wuss or an *kitten*.

lovejoydavid

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Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless ***** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like ****, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

I would hesitate at this opening. The more akin logical flaw would be "every whale I have met is a mammal, every whale I have met lives in the sea, therefore every whale is a mammal that lives in the sea." Clearly, the "nice guy" fails in that he assumes his experience is representative of all women. No one has done that kind of foot work. However, the rest of the article reads as if the writer has the same universal experience with the so-called "nice guys." That is a false representative set, as well. It sounds a bit like a set of assumptions about a not very well defined group. However, it also clearly resonates with a number of people, so I guess that is that.

Sasssy69

notice how a lot of those 'nice' guy qualities are also passive/aggressive traits? been there, done that, no thanks!

You took the words right outta my mouth! I couldn't AGREE more. The "nice" guy really isn't so nice...Yeah, been there, done that as well.

Amysgetnfit

This hasn't been said, but this also applies to women, and sometimes they're even worse than guys.

So True, of both men & women, OVER nice clingy manipulative... generally stems from lack of self respect,& self confidence
self esteem & try to find what they are lacking from someone else.
you have to love yourself & find happiness yourself first before anyone else really can.
You will never find happiness in another person if you arent a happy person with yourself.Theres a difference between nice people & Decent

lovejoydavid

So True, of both men & women, OVER nice clingy manipulative... generally stems from lack of self respect,& self confidence
self esteem & try to find what they are lacking from someone else.
you have to love yourself & find happiness yourself first before anyone else really can.
You will never find happiness in another person if you arent a happy person with yourself.Theres a difference between nice people & Decent

The article does seem to approach the discussion as if men are the singular variable, with the behavior of women being a constant. However, I am completely unclear on how "nice" came to such a perjorative usage?

dckim

Nice guy vs Bad boys. Super model vs Girl next door. These are all labels. I rather be a nice guy than an a**hole. There are enough of them already. :flowerforyou: Btw, liking yourself too much can be narcissistic. Too much goal oriented can be ruthless. Also good has bad. The yin-yang thing....

RocketsGirl75

Wow! Just had dealings with a "nice guy" and ummm yeah clingy much?? Great read!

Cakepiebeer

Bleh..what a crock....but then again...I'm not a nice guy..

Nice has become the latest redefined word in the English dictionary and its a single adjective that by itself does not indicate any of the things indicated by the original OP

All the bandwagon followers jump and go ...oh me too..and me too...

When you add in insecure..clingy....jealous..too generous...then maybe you have a point.

^This. I am with a nice guy and he still has his balls. He is none of those things listed. When did being a nice guy equal being a passive/aggressive wuss? Is it not possible to be kind and still be a man?

+1

Why do we have to assume "nice" means insecure. I didn't like the article. It is just one more way to make people feel bad about themselves. Now you can't be nice without feeling bad?

That author should find a different line of work.

No, "Nice Guy" is referring to Men who are "needy" . Atleasts that's the way I interpreted the article.

It's the same for women. Women who have nothing else going for them show the same signs of infatuation, lack of trust and insecurity. It's really really unhealthy.

alex215

there is a difference between being "nice" and being an insecure push over.

i would agree with that article more if the word "Nice" was replaced with "insecure pushover"

kenzietea

WOW. I am copying and pasting to the nice guy that I went on 6 dates with 2 years ago and still thinks I am the heartless b*tch for no longer being interested in him. This is so true!

TDGee

Interesting reading. Thanks for sharing Robin!

:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

anubis609

Whew... Good thing I'm such a great *kitten* :happy:

arhzon

While I agree with this article, it's driven in a very sexist way. I have known guys who bugged the crap out of me because they acted like this, and I have even seen the same traits in myself at times. However, the same holds true from the other side. The women who are constantly victims of abusive relationships but keep going back to it, and everyone always wants to save them. The problem is that you can't solve the problem by separating the people, when the one from whom the person needs to be saved is themselves.
Most people whether they act "nice", insecure, cocky, assertive, confident, or however they may act, do so in an ultimately self-serving way. It's the disease of the human mind. We always want to see ourselves a certain way, and therefore act a certain way to get others to reaffirm what we want to believe about ourselves. Nice guys usually want to see themselves as nice guys because, really, "victim" is the easiest role to play in life.

Scott613

Never really understood how people define a person with one single word .. as in the term "nice guy".

I don't think I would ever claim to know anyone who is as simplistic as that. The people I know, including myself are a lot more complicated than that.

Most people have treated me nice, but on occasion I have witnessed those same people act badly .. Does that mean they are no longer "nice"? HELLLNOOO!

Likewise .. the people who are more often egotistical selfish overly self indulgent s.o.b's that exercise periodic 'niceties' .. should they then be termed "nice"? HELLNOOO!

People are a lot more complicated than that. When choosing your friends or choosing a partner hopefully you can find a balance of many aspects of personality. You have to be able to admire the people you choose to have in your life for who they are and how they treat other people. That's what makes the world go round.

Ummm nice guy is two words:ohwell:

LorinaLynn

There's a difference between someone who's a genuinely GOOD PERSON, and a self-proclaimed nice guy.

I've run a fairly popular dating advice forum for about 12 years now. I've seen it all over and over again. Men and women really aren't that different. . There's ones who "get it" and ones who don't. There's ones who have healthy attitudes and ones who don't. There's good ones and bad ones, but most people are somewhere in the middle. Most people have good intentions, but might not know what best to do with their intentions. There's very few really bad apples, but there's a lot of apples that have a few bruises and soft spots.

While we've heard from quite a few women who complain that guys beeline for b!tchy hot chicks and ignore normal decent women, by far, there's a lot more guys whining that "nice guys finish last." That women like jerks, where "jerk" is defined as "any guy who is not me."

Think of the song "Jessie's Girl" by Rick Springfield. Jesse is his friend. Yeah, I know he's been a good friend of Rick's. But Rick can't understand why Jessie's girl likes Jessie and not Rick. He's been funny, he's been cool with the lines, ain't that the way love's supposed to be?!

No. Rick is being a douche! Jessie's girl isn't available. Period. She's chosen who she likes and if Rick was a decent guy, he'd respect her decision and be happy for his friend.

And while that's a cheesy song by a dude who I'm sure had no problems getting girls on his own, being both a soap and rock star at the time, it's how a lot of these SELF-PROCLAIMED (key words here) nice guys think. "I'm doing the right things... why isn't it working?!"

It's because someone's affection isn't a bank, where you deposit good deeds and withdraw dates, sex or a relationship. If you're doing something nice (ie, giving her flowers, helping her move or study for an exam, or giving her a ride to the airport) because you want her to want you, that's not the same as doing it because you're a nice guy. It's with ulterior motives. The intention isn't pure.

Think of it as the difference between someone who returns other people's carts to the store, vs the guy who's job it is to collect the carts. They're both doing the same thing, but one is doing it to be helpful, the other is doing it because he's getting paid to do it. Guess who feels better about himself after doing the job? The one who didn't HAVE to do it.

Now, I know a lot of guys who do good things just for the sake of doing good things. They don't have expectations for their actions. Those guys are kind, compassionate, and typically very humble about their actions. They don't wear their Nice Guy title like a pageant banner across their chest. And they're NOT the ones complaining that nice guys finish last.

TheRoadDog

I consider myself to be a "Nice Guy". How others decide to interpret that tag has absolutely no relevance to me.

PBJunkie

I thought this was an interesting read:
The following was taken from http://tinyurl.com/rpg

_______________________________________________________________________



Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless ***** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like ****, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

Absolute rubbish...

So based on your post I have to be very insecure since I treat my soon to be fiancé with respect...Hey I love it to massage her feet warm during the winter months before going to bed and even when I get undressed I would seductively creep over her body and gently whisper and kiss a love poem against her skin before sealing it on her lips.

ItsCasey

I don't think the author of that article meant to say that all guys who are nice are necessarily insecure and weak. It's just that that's how these insecure guys view themselves ... as "nice," not as "insecure pushovers." If the article started off with "All of you insecure guys out there need to read this ..." they'd all skip right past it.

I also think Road Dog has the right idea here ... the bottom line is that you have to be okay with who you are. You have to believe that you're good enough WITHOUT constant reassurance from a woman, from other men, from relationship "experts," etc. So if you know you're not the guy described in that article, then it shouldn't bother you.

ArroganceInStep

I don't think the author of that article meant to say that all guys who are nice are necessarily insecure and weak. It's just that that's how these insecure guys view themselves ... as "nice," not as "insecure pushovers." If the article started off with "All of you insecure guys out there need to read this ..." they'd all skip right past it.

I also think Road Dog has the right idea here ... the bottom line is that you have to be okay with who you are. You have to believe that you're good enough WITHOUT constant reassurance from a woman, from other men, from relationship "experts," etc. So if you know you're not the guy described in that article, then it shouldn't bother you.

I was cocky, extremely manipulative, and downright mean to chicks in college...it's taken me a long time to realize that this was the direct result of my own insecurities. The article is speaking to one specific case of male interaction with women, and makes it sound like that's the only one that has self-image issues. The truth is insecurity can be toxic to a relationship, whether you're a guy, a girl, and however it manifests itself. It's very difficult, if not impossible, to have a healthy and rewarding relationship with another person without first being happy and comfortable with yourself.

All that being said, I do think manifesting personal insecurities as a 'bad guy' rather than a 'nice guy' results in your getting more play, even if those relationships don't last long.