Natural food better than vaccinations?

mrsmccullen07

Cases like that are good argumentation for being anti vaccination, but IMO it's never always going to be perfect. Sorry for your experience.

I don't see how it's a good argument for being anti-vaccination. I too am sorry for her experience but in her case the problem was most likely the doctor giving too many vaccines at once. There are stupid drivers out there - is this a good argument for being anti-automobile? No.

How do you know how much is too many vaccines for your child ? Every person is different and we all handle things differently and while one 8 weeks old baby may be fine with the number of vaccines adminstered in one visit another child could have a horrible reaction due to the number of shots.

Vaccinations & Vaccination schedules are not a one size fits all and our government and doctors should allow us to choose (without arguement) how we would like to handle them. The biggest thing I notice is most parents choose either to vaccinate or not to vaccinate when there is another option one where you can choose to vaccinate on a schedule that is more friendly to your child. For instance my child is not at a high risk of Hep B so why should I be forced to allow my newborn to have that vaccination? Also with the chicken pox virus why not allow children to acquire natural immunity and if they haven't by their pre-teen years have them vaccinated ? I agree MMR should be given since the death rate with those diseases is high but why cant they be broken up and given at different times to allow the body time to handle it ?

ladybg81

People like that are the reason these diseases that once were irradiated are making a HUGE come back. My son is vaccinated with no problems. If vaccines were linked to Autism, you would think that every child that received them would develop it. A major *kitten* storm was opened I'm sure as I am not going to read the responses. But, I do NOT believe this. Everyone has a right to their opinion but the children that go unvaccinated need to be in their own school system away from the kids who are vaccinated. I don’t want my child becoming ill with a potentially life threatening disease because some moron chose not to do what is right.

darklord48

I do realize the risks associated with people choosing not to vaccinate. I have to worry about the safety of my children and in my case choosing to vaccinate could be worse on their health.

I am not anti-vaccine I am just pro-knowledge You need to know what you are injecting into your child and I believe that if you are personally conflicted about a vaccination then you should have the power to say "no".

I realize that noone attacked me over my choice not to vaccinate in a overly rude fashion I was mostly attacked for my sorry grammar and I plan to work on it. I am a fast thinker/talker and I tend to type in that manner and I apologize for that.

If you could provide a link to articles that have information similar to that which made you choose to not vaccinate your children, it would be easier for others to understand your rationale.

Currently my understanding is that you choose not to due to the phantom threat of a complication due to a vaccine, than the real threat of coming in contact with a disease.

I am certainly against vaccines for things like Chicken Pox, which immunity can be gained by the disease running it's course, and complications are rare.

Diseases such as Polio, Small Pox, Measles, and other more harmful diseases, I believe that the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of side effects from the vaccine.

Yes, allergies to the vaccines are possible, which is why they need to be given carefully and with close monitoring until it is known that an allergic reaction will not happen.

Here is a link to the CDC's list of possible side effects to vaccines.: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

mrsmccullen07

People like that are the reason these diseases that once were irradiated are making a HUGE come back. My son is vaccinated with no problems. If vaccines were linked to Autism, you would think that every child that received them would develop it. A major *kitten* storm was opened I'm sure as I am not going to read the responses. But, I do NOT believe this. Everyone has a right to their opinion but the children that go unvaccinated need to be in their own school system away from the kids who are vaccinated. I don’t want my child becoming ill with a potentially life threatening disease because some moron chose not to do what is right.

I do not vaccinate nor do I think that vaccinations cause Autism, I think it could play a role in some cases since no two children are alike and while one may tolerate vaccinations fine anothers child could not tolerate it is as well.

Every child in the US has the right to a public school education even unvaccinated children and your child is at risk for catching the disease if there is an outbreak in your community whether they attend school or not. Do you also believe we should shop in different grocery stores and attend different churches ?

Just because you believe vaccinations are what is right does not mean it is right for everybody if your child were to have a serious reaction to their next immunization your views on this matter would change. It is normal to judge and dislike others who do not do everything exactly as you do but to call us morons that is just immature. There are tons of things that are done everyday involving children that I do not agree with however I do not go around calling those people names.

skinnyack

MJStory- I used Superbug for lack of a better term, what I was referring to is diseases mutating... I think the general idea was appropriate as multiple vaccines have had to be recalculated to include more strains. I am not educated enough in biology to know if these strains already existed and we just found them later as they continued to affect people or if they actually mutated.

I am so sad to hear about so many of your stories. I know there are so many stories on both sides supporting pro- and anti- vaccine and it is very personal. I think our common link is that we all trying to protect against a semi-rare condition (obviously this statement omits flu, which is common, and chickenpox, which is common) be it seizures, potential autism, or death from vaccines, or death, disablement, illness from MMR, Polio, etc. One of these conditions on either side does not trump another- No parent (or person entering this country) should be forced into choosing one or the other. I think what we can ALL get behind is 1) Mandate reporting in hospitals of deaths or illnesses that occur within certain time frames of vaccines. This includes miscarriages from mothers who received flu shots. This will make everyone safer. 2) Research the ingredients in vaccines and support regulations on Pharmaceutical companies to produce the BEST product- NO SHORTCUTS. This will make everyone safer. 3) Uphold our right to Choose, and our right to education and information. 4) And realize our biggest dangers are still auto accidents and Non Communicable diseases- stroke, cancer, heart attacks- which ARE nutrition related. The better off we are in nutrition, and the fewer toxins that are in our environment, the stronger all of our immune systems will be to fight off whatever it may be that is posing a threat to our kids and families.

genxrider

The question: Natural food better than vaccinations?
The answer: No.

I'm 99.99% sure there is no natural food that will take care of me if I step on a rusty nail and my tetanus is not up to date. I think I'm kind of screwed. Lockjaw is no way to go.

I think the chickenpox vaccine might be overdoing it, except that it can decimate a classroom, so I see the value there.

Some people have reactions to the medium the vaccine is delivered in, which may have given rise to some of the anti-vaccine movement. I'd rule that out before I went anti-prevention.

Vegan_Chick

I'm on the fence.
My sister lives in Germany and is into "natural" and "organic" etc. and she did not give her kids any vacinnes when they were little - she let them get sick so they have natural immunity. Everything turned out OK for her, but I know there are some kids who get these diseases and die, sooooo You have to make your own choices.
Now that her kids are older, she does give them vaccines, figuring that their bodies are able to handle it. She recently got her pre-teen girls the Hepatitis vaccines so they could go to school in America. (they were here 3 weeks during Germany's "summer vacation" time)
I think the jury is out on autism and what causes it and I suspect it will be a long time before such a complicated brain-related condition is figured out.

While it may be the option to wait on immunization, I agree with schools that if you don't have your child immunized, they can't attend public school. While they may not suffer from a disease like measles that they contract, someone else still could be infected who may not have a high a resiliency.

I have a friend who does not give her son vaccinations and as long as she signs a waiver, her son can go to public school. I am not sure I agree with that. She says its for "religious" reasons but is that fair to expose other children to deathly diseases?

mrsmccullen07

I do realize the risks associated with people choosing not to vaccinate. I have to worry about the safety of my children and in my case choosing to vaccinate could be worse on their health.

I am not anti-vaccine I am just pro-knowledge You need to know what you are injecting into your child and I believe that if you are personally conflicted about a vaccination then you should have the power to say "no".

I realize that noone attacked me over my choice not to vaccinate in a overly rude fashion I was mostly attacked for my sorry grammar and I plan to work on it. I am a fast thinker/talker and I tend to type in that manner and I apologize for that.

If you could provide a link to articles that have information similar to that which made you choose to not vaccinate your children, it would be easier for others to understand your rationale.

Currently my understanding is that you choose not to due to the phantom threat of a complication due to a vaccine, than the real threat of coming in contact with a disease.

I am certainly against vaccines for things like Chicken Pox, which immunity can be gained by the disease running it's course, and complications are rare.

Diseases such as Polio, Small Pox, Measles, and other more harmful diseases, I believe that the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of side effects from the vaccine.

Yes, allergies to the vaccines are possible, which is why they need to be given carefully and with close monitoring until it is known that an allergic reaction will not happen.

Here is a link to the CDC's list of possible side effects to vaccines.: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

My son received his Hep B shot in the hospital less than 24hours later he started having seizures followed by a stroke which caused 4 hemorrages on his brain. He was transferred to Duke Hospital and we were informed there that his seizures could have very well have been caused by the Hep B shot. He spent a week in the hospital undergoing every test they could do and they could not find another other cause of his seizures or stroke,at birth he was healthy & alert he scored a 9 & 10 on his Apgar test. I was informed then by our neurologist to not vaccinate him. Most if not all vaccinations can cause seizures and clearly state that they should not be given to someone with a history of seizures.

MSDRIZZ

Are you up to date on your vaccinations ?
Will your child come into contact with any adult who is not up to date on vaccinations?


How would you feel as a parent if you were forced to breastfeed your child ? It has been proven over and over that breastmilk is best for babies however many parents choose to use formula. What if your insurance company made you pay more if you chose not to breastfeed ?

Great point!

sarah_ep

I did not read all the posts but here is my take on vaccinations -

I have not got them since I was 17 (2 and a half years)....I had to get about 5 because my parents were adopting and I lived at home. (it was required)...About 30 minutes after getting them I passed out. Badly. I had passed out before, but not this bad. I stopped breathing, threw up (while out) and basically had a seizure like reaction. For the next three months I was extremely dizzy. I could barely walk without holding onto something. I pretty much sat on the couch or laid in bed for that time....I still get dizzy from time to time, where I had never/rarely had before. I never had depression or anxiety before I got them. Now I suffer every. single. day. I get sick more easily and my colds last longer.

I will never get another vaccination if I can help it. My children will only get the ones that I think are most important and ONLY after I do a ton of research about them.

Also - My best friend when I was a kid was perfectly fine/normal until she was about 5. She went in to get shots and the doctor said she was behind and that it would be safe for her to get them all at the same time. Her mom trusted the doctor and got them. Shortly after she started noticing changes. Eventually she was diagnosed as autistic....Everyone believes it was either the shots or the amount of shots that caused it...

ETA - Before you freak out - I plan on homeschooling my children so YOURS will be "safe". Also, if my (mature only) children ever decide the want them they can go ahead and get them.

I am very sorry about your experience. I would like to point out these are not common cases. Also, that the symptoms for autism usually appear during the years children are getting vaccinated to prepare for school (regardless if they are vaccinated or not), this does not prove a correlation.

Jade_Butterfly

I'm on the fence.
My sister lives in Germany and is into "natural" and "organic" etc. and she did not give her kids any vacinnes when they were little - she let them get sick so they have natural immunity. Everything turned out OK for her, but I know there are some kids who get these diseases and die, sooooo You have to make your own choices.
Now that her kids are older, she does give them vaccines, figuring that their bodies are able to handle it. She recently got her pre-teen girls the Hepatitis vaccines so they could go to school in America. (they were here 3 weeks during Germany's "summer vacation" time)
I think the jury is out on autism and what causes it and I suspect it will be a long time before such a complicated brain-related condition is figured out.

While it may be the option to wait on immunization, I agree with schools that if you don't have your child immunized, they can't attend public school. While they may not suffer from a disease like measles that they contract, someone else still could be infected who may not have a high a resiliency.

While I am appreciating the read and all the arguements for and against. . . . This information is not accurate. . your kids can go to school without being immunized. . all you have to do is sign a waver form. . . . Just because a child is not immunized does not mean that they can withhold education from that child. . .

_Ben

Im going to tell this to everyone, not just because Im a future pharmacist, but because everyone needs to know this

VACCINATIONS AND AUTISM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704739504576067801877449500.html

The doctor who originated this rediculous belief, Andrew Wakefield, was in January 2010 barred from the UK (and US) board of medicine, his license revoked, all his medical research redactted, because it was proven that all of his data was FAKE. Anyone who believes or thinks different seriously needs to read the above article. In Britian thousands have been affected by deadly diseases, many dieing, that could have been easily prevented with a vaccination. Vaccinations are incredibly important, and should not be taken lightly

kunibob

My two cents...and this is probably the most charged post I will ever make here...

Vaccines are an easy excuse because they're an external cause. No parents like to think that their genetics, or something they did, might have "caused" something like autism. There is a lot of guilt that comes with any kind of illness in a child, mental or physical, and it's a relief when you can point your fingers at something external. I have seen guilt about an inherited illness ruin a family member's life, and I can understand wanting -- needing -- an external reason.

But herd immunity is suffering, as others have said. Measles, smallpox, polio...there is a resurgence happening, and the fewer people that are vaccinated, the more will succumb (vaccines are not 100%). We live in a very priveleged generation: we did not see our friends or family members go through these illnesses, and so we are getting careless.

Even seemingly benign illnesses, like chicken pox, can cause severe problems that only show up later in life (like shingles or a recurrence)...we did our oatmeal/baking soda baths and scratched ourselves silly and bear scars from it, so we think it's harmless, but the reality is that complications do happen, and many of us won't see them for a few more decades.

I believe that vaccination is a responsibility, and yes, it is one of the few things where I won't advocate that it should be a person's own choice, because their decisions are compromising the immunity of me and of my (future) children. I won't judge in a couple cases: 1) where a person has seen or experienced horrible vaccination side effects first hand (I can understand how traumatizing that must be), or 2) where a doctor indicates that for the individual, the risk of the vaccination outweighs the benefits. Too often, though, this decision seems to come from pseudoscience or emotion instead of logic.

No one should ever, EVER have to die from an illness that is preventable.

SarabellPlus3

I read the first post in this topic and cannot read further because I get so angry about this so called "debate" that my blood pressure rises incredibly high, I get pissed off, and I can't sleep.

Vaccines are a victim of their own success. It is so frustrating.

I have a sick child that isn't fortunate enough to receive all of the usual vaccines. She has a poor immune system and at the age of 1 is not allowed to get MMR because it is a live vaccine AND because she received certain blood products.

This forces me to rely on the stupidity of others to protect my child which puts me into mama bear mode and gets me angry.

Deaths/Illnesses I have seen personally that could have been preventable
1 aunt - polio. Suffered paralysis
1 uncle - polio. Deformations
1 baby - died. RSV
2 babies - died only 2 weeks after going home from NICU from pertussis (whooping cough)
1 sister in law - hospitalization due to chicken pox as an adult.

NONE of these could have been prevented by healthy eating or exercise.

That is all.

This is exactly why I'd NEVER consider not getting my healthy children vaccinated, barring an unforseen condition, like an egg allergy or other reaction.

I have a cousin with 4 children who doesn't believe in vaccinations, and insists that their children will be fine, b/c if they contract something, they will probably be OK with it and walk out with the natural immunity. Perhaps. But how about if your child passed that on to my mother, with MS and a compromised immune system? Is it worth making sure your child gets the natural immunity to risk my mother's life? With Lupus in our family too, it's just too risky with these autoimmunes surrounding us to decide only based on yourself-- we have all of society to think of, too. Maybe my kid would be fine through the measles, some people are, but maybe my kid would pass the measles on to a child with a liver transplant via a grocery store cart handle before my child even displayed a symptom, and it kills that child. It's simply not worth that risk for hearsay.

We're very lucky that we live in a world where these diseases aren't (yet) feeling like a big enough threat that we feel we have such a choice to make, you know?

Jade_Butterfly

My son received his Hep B shot in the hospital less than 24hours later he started having seizures followed by a stroke which caused 4 hemorrages on his brain. He was transferred to Duke Hospital and we were informed there that his seizures could have very well have been caused by the Hep B shot. He spent a week in the hospital undergoing every test they could do and they could not find another other cause of his seizures or stroke,at birth he was healthy & alert he scored a 9 & 10 on his Apgar test. I was informed then by our neurologist to not vaccinate him. Most if not all vaccinations can cause seizures and clearly state that they should not be given to someone with a history of seizures.

Oh my goodness. . I can't even imagine having to go through that. . That must of been terrifying. . Thankfully he was okay. . wow.

kunibob

Also...I cannot scream this enough...CORRELATION =/= CAUSATION!!!! So much of the pseudoscience out there is based on (often weak) correlation. Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh *bashes head into wall*

servilia

Cases like that are good argumentation for being anti vaccination, but IMO it's never always going to be perfect. Sorry for your experience.

I don't see how it's a good argument for being anti-vaccination. I too am sorry for her experience but in her case the problem was most likely the doctor giving too many vaccines at once. There are stupid drivers out there - is this a good argument for being anti-automobile? No.

How do you know how much is too many vaccines for your child ? Every person is different and we all handle things differently and while one 8 weeks old baby may be fine with the number of vaccines adminstered in one visit another child could have a horrible reaction due to the number of shots.

Vaccinations & Vaccination schedules are not a one size fits all and our government and doctors should allow us to choose (without arguement) how we would like to handle them.

The biggest thing I notice is most parents choose either to vaccinate or not to vaccinate when there is another option one where you can choose to vaccinate on a schedule that is more friendly to your child. For instance my child is not at a high risk of Hep B so why should I be forced to allow my newborn to have that vaccination? Also with the chicken pox virus why not allow children to acquire natural immunity and if they haven't by their pre-teen years have them vaccinated ? I agree MMR should be given since the death rate with those diseases is high but why cant they be broken up and given at different times to allow the body time to handle it ?

Yes they should be broken up and given at different times. Did I ever say they shouldn't? If a doctor makes a mistake in administering the vaccines and this leads to adverse reactions they should be sued for negligence and their licenses should be revoked. I disagree that laypeople should be allowed to choose without argument (emphasize on without argument) how vaccines should be administered. You might have stupid people choosing to give their kids all vaccines at once. Certainly people should educate themselves and learn the proper schedules and make sure the doctor follows the guidelines for children. If the parent is aware of a valid medical reason for deviating from the guidelines in the case of a specific child then they should do all they can to make sure this is taken into account.
I'm glad you agree that the basic vaccinations should be given (MMR, polio, dyptheria, pertussis etc). I am not too keen on the need for all these new vaccines like Hepatitis or flu (actually I think the flu shot is a crock for everyone except the severely vulnerable) and wary of the shot for chickenpox - I mean it never killed an otherwise healthy person right.

servilia

Im going to tell this to everyone, not just because Im a future pharmacist, but because everyone needs to know this

VACCINATIONS AND AUTISM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704739504576067801877449500.html

The doctor who originated this rediculous belief, Andrew Wakefield, was in January 2010 barred from the UK (and US) board of medicine, his license revoked, all his medical research redactted, because it was proven that all of his data was FAKE. Anyone who believes or thinks different seriously needs to read the above article. In Britian thousands have been affected by deadly diseases, many dieing, that could have been easily prevented with a vaccination. Vaccinations are incredibly important, and should not be taken lightly

Thank you!!

servilia

I read the first post in this topic and cannot read further because I get so angry about this so called "debate" that my blood pressure rises incredibly high, I get pissed off, and I can't sleep.

Vaccines are a victim of their own success. It is so frustrating.

I have a sick child that isn't fortunate enough to receive all of the usual vaccines. She has a poor immune system and at the age of 1 is not allowed to get MMR because it is a live vaccine AND because she received certain blood products.

This forces me to rely on the stupidity of others to protect my child which puts me into mama bear mode and gets me angry.

Deaths/Illnesses I have seen personally that could have been preventable
1 aunt - polio. Suffered paralysis
1 uncle - polio. Deformations
1 baby - died. RSV
2 babies - died only 2 weeks after going home from NICU from pertussis (whooping cough)
1 sister in law - hospitalization due to chicken pox as an adult.

NONE of these could have been prevented by healthy eating or exercise.

That is all.

This is exactly why I'd NEVER consider not getting my healthy children vaccinated, barring an unforseen condition, like an egg allergy or other reaction.

I have a cousin with 4 children who doesn't believe in vaccinations, and insists that their children will be fine, b/c if they contract something, they will probably be OK with it and walk out with the natural immunity.

Yeah I'd like to see them walk out with a natural immunity to polio or dyptheria.

servilia

Are you up to date on your vaccinations ?
Will your child come into contact with any adult who is not up to date on vaccinations?


How would you feel as a parent if you were forced to breastfeed your child ? It has been proven over and over that breastmilk is best for babies however many parents choose to use formula. What if your insurance company made you pay more if you chose not to breastfeed ?

Great point!

No, not a great point. A person's decision to breastfeed or not breastfeed their child will only affect that child. Refusing vaccinations such as those for MMR, dyptheria, polio etc affects the entire society.