For those that don't eat meat, explain your reasoning
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Makes you wonder what would happen to the environment if we all stopped eating meat. Could the land support the higher demand of veggie eaters PLUS the saved animals who also rely on non-meat food sources. Something to ponder.
I do see your point here but remember that most of these animals are not 'naturally' occurring, they are farmed and essentially force-bred specifically to be eaten.
I considered that for the land animals, but I wonder what would happen to the oceans.... would they thrive?
Could the planet handle 6.7Billion vegetarians? (just a theoretical question, not realistic of course).0 -
I considered that for the land animals, but I wonder what would happen to the oceans.... would they thrive?
Could the planet handle 6.7Billion vegetarians? (just a theoretical question, not realistic of course).
No idea, we still have a lot of farmed fish etc happening. I think the oceans would be fine - perhaps full of bigger fish that eat smaller fish haha. Perhaps, if the predictions are correct (which I think they are not, or perhaps hope they are not) and we will run out of adequate amounts of meat/fish/sustainable land in the near future then we may find out.0 -
Ok now we're starting to stretch here folks. It's definately one thing if you don't eat meat because of ethical issues with it, or you dont like it, or you may get sick from it or whatever the reasoning is. This thread was very good and interesting hearingg your responses. However, please do not start throwing out responses like meat and dairy are causing diseases, cancer, stroke, diabetes, etc., and you can cure all of the diseases by just eating vegetables.
1. There is no scientific evidence that meat causes cancer. In fact I can post some research done by the NIH right now that shows that there isnt enough evidence to prove it.
2. Like another poster said, if it were true that eating vegetables cured diseases and cancer, then we wouldn't need cures for these rampant diseases we have today. Wow really? A poster really tried to use this. Don't insult our intelligence with this ramble please.
3. Let's keep the thread and the conversation realistic and informative like it has been.
Seriously.0 -
If there was no cruelty to animals, and no environmental impact, would you still obstain from meat?
Yes, because none of those reasons factor into my choice to go vegan. I just feel healthier and I am cutting out fats from my diet that my body doesn't need.0 -
If there was no cruelty to animals, and no environmental impact, would you still obstain from meat?
Makes you wonder what would happen to the environment if we all stopped eating meat. Could the land support the higher demand of veggie eaters PLUS the saved animals who also rely on non-meat food sources. Something to ponder.
Considering we don't grow most of our food in the country, it's a little terrifying haha.0 -
I still eat meat but since I changed my eating habits, I'm eating very little only and most of it is chicken. I watched the "Fork over Knife" movie and I was shocked by the stuff they take out of clogged arteries. I don't want that in my body. I was never a big meat eater to begin with, I'd pass on a steak any time and rather enjoy the double baked taters.
So even though I'm not living meat less, my reason for not eating beef and pork is for health reasons.0 -
Ok now we're starting to stretch here folks. It's definately one thing if you don't eat meat because of ethical issues with it, or you dont like it, or you may get sick from it or whatever the reasoning is. This thread was very good and interesting hearingg your responses. However, please do not start throwing out responses like meat and dairy are causing diseases, cancer, stroke, diabetes, etc., and you can cure all of the diseases by just eating vegetables.
1. There is no scientific evidence that meat causes cancer. In fact I can post some research done by the NIH right now that shows that there isnt enough evidence to prove it.
2. Like another poster said, if it were true that eating vegetables cured diseases and cancer, then we wouldn't need cures for these rampant diseases we have today. Wow really? A poster really tried to use this. Don't insult our intelligence with this ramble please.
3. Let's keep the thread and the conversation realistic and informative like it has been.
Seriously.
Seriously, whether or not there is scientific evidence should be left to each individual to decide. It appears to me that for every study done to suggest meat causes cancer, there is a study claiming the opposite. If you believe meat doesn't cause cancer, I can respect that and I won't call it ramble. It's your choice, your life and your body. I excpect the same courtesy from you if I wanted to rather stick to veggies to avoid cancer.0 -
You do realize that cholesterol is needed in the diet and you can't get that from plants? Cholesterol is responsible for hormones (estrogen and testosterone) and good cholesterol is heart healthy.
Yes, because none of those reasons factor into my choice to go vegan. I just feel healthier and I am cutting out fats from my diet that my body doesn't need.
Low cholesterol is associated with higher cancer risks (especially breast cancer), affects moods and can inhibit depression.0 -
Ok now we're starting to stretch here folks. It's definately one thing if you don't eat meat because of ethical issues with it, or you dont like it, or you may get sick from it or whatever the reasoning is. This thread was very good and interesting hearingg your responses. However, please do not start throwing out responses like meat and dairy are causing diseases, cancer, stroke, diabetes, etc., and you can cure all of the diseases by just eating vegetables.
1. There is no scientific evidence that meat causes cancer. In fact I can post some research done by the NIH right now that shows that there isnt enough evidence to prove it.
2. Like another poster said, if it were true that eating vegetables cured diseases and cancer, then we wouldn't need cures for these rampant diseases we have today. Wow really? A poster really tried to use this. Don't insult our intelligence with this ramble please.
3. Let's keep the thread and the conversation realistic and informative like it has been.
Seriously.
Seriously, whether or not there is scientific evidence should be left to each individual to decide. It appears to me that for every study done to suggest meat causes cancer, there is a study claiming the opposite. If you believe meat doesn't cause cancer, I can respect that and I won't call it ramble. It's your choice, your life and your body. I excpect the same courtesy from you if I wanted to rather stick to veggies to avoid cancer.
There is no scientific evidence that eating red meat causes cancer. Period.
Any study that claims that it does such as one done by Webster at NIH regarding that:More than half a million older Americans concluding that over a 10 year period, the people who ate the highest amount of red and processed meat had a higher risk of cancer..
... is immensely flawed. They did not in any way, shape or form explain what else the people ate in their diets over the 10 years, whether the people were actually HEALTHY to begin with, whether they smoked, or any kind of hereditary cancerous bloodline.
Period.0 -
Wow that took a long time to read through!
Few things:
1) Our teeth are not designed to eat meat. This annoys me so much when used as an argument! Look at a gorillas teeth (vegan, except for a couple of ants now and then) and notice that they too have canines (which are MUCH bigger than ours). Then look at the teeth of, say, a lion. Which are ours more like?!? Our teeth are not suitable for sinking into the side of a cow and ripping a piece off.
2) If the only food left on the planet was meat then either it was already dead and would run out eventually causing starvation, or it was still alive and would need plant sources to survive. Either there is plant food available or the meat would run out eventually anyway, so eating it would just prolong an inevitable starvation. This is another "argument" that irritates me.
3) Studies that prove or disprove that meat causes diseases are usually very biased towards the views of the researcher. Don't forget as well that the pharmaceutical companies makes a hell of a lot of money out of you being sick. If you stop being sick they stop making money. Also, if they tell you that the real way to get healthy is to stop taking meds and start eating veg they'd stop making money. So it's in their interest that you continue to get sick. There's a reason behind the saying "an apple a day keeps the doctor away".
Also, I am vegan for so many reasons. Firstly, I view all creatures as having equal rights to their own lives, and to live without suffering. Cows were not "made" for us to abuse and exploit. Nor were any other animals. Milk and eggs (other than the reasons that eggs are a chickens menstruation and milk is designed to turn a baby cow into a great big heifer) has death as by products - the male calves that are born so the cow produces milk are often kept anemic and motionless to keep their flesh white and tender for veal. Also I have feminist reasons - why should female chickens and cows be exploited just for their reproductive system byproducts?!
I could talk forever about this, but I feel that I would be a) preaching to the choir and/or b) talking to people who have made up their mind to continue using animals.0 -
Right. I don't really "get" it when people offer up the idea that since they can never be 100% perfect, they may as well not do all that seems reasonably possible to do better.This can be debated until the end of time. Unless one abstains from food (or ceases to live at all) there will be some harm to living creatures. I am not a vegan so my diet does contribute to that, too. However, I chose to not eat meat because it is something simple that I can do that does not exacerbate the problem. If I was eating meat and grain, then I would be contributing to death of rodents AND cows, chickens, fish, etc.
The posters who are concerned with any animals that may be harmed by the squash plants growing in my backyard, I appreciate your concern. But I'm not going to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater.' I'm not going to kill myself from abstaining from all foods forever, so that I can be kinder to animals. But you know what I am going to continue to do? Being careful. I don't eat mammals, and recently started eating carefully fished fish, and local/small farm chickens. I still choose to not use factory farmed sources, or eat mammals.
You're really grasping at straws, and invalidating your own arguments, if your argument is that I'm a hypocrite (at least, unreasonably so), for eating at all simply by trying to mitigate damage I may have to do simply to live. That's like saying I may as well go cause a car wreck for no reason this afternoon simply because by driving a car carefully I still risk accidentally hurting someone.0 -
I'd like to see the studies that prove it. And like I mentioned in another post, low cholesterol levels in the body encourage cancer.Seriously, whether or not there is scientific evidence should be left to each individual to decide. It appears to me that for every study done to suggest meat causes cancer, there is a study claiming the opposite. If you believe meat doesn't cause cancer, I can respect that and I won't call it ramble. It's your choice, your life and your body. I excpect the same courtesy from you if I wanted to rather stick to veggies to avoid cancer.0 -
And like I mentioned in another post, low cholesterol levels in the body encourage cancer.
http://www.jofamericanscience.org/journals/am-sci/0201/05-mahongbao-0105.pdf
Read the first paragraph of the introduction, specifically the part where it says "the body makes enough cholesterol, so any dietary cholesterol isn't needed."0 -
There is no scientific evidence that eating red meat causes cancer. Period.
Any study that claims that it does such as one done by Webster at NIH regarding that:
QUOTE:
More than half a million older Americans concluding that over a 10 year period, the people who ate the highest amount of red and processed meat had a higher risk of cancer..
... is immensely flawed. They did not in any way, shape or form explain what else the people ate in their diets over the 10 years, whether the people were actually HEALTHY to begin with, whether they smoked, or any kind of hereditary cancerous bloodline.
Period.
Whatever rocks your boat. Period.0 -
It's more than obvious that ethics play a part in the choice of many to be vegan or vegetarian. Unfortunately us meat eaters don't have time to or resources to raise our own farm animals and comfort them before using them for food.Wow that took a long time to read through!
Few things:
1) Our teeth are not designed to eat meat. This annoys me so much when used as an argument! Look at a gorillas teeth (vegan, except for a couple of ants now and then) and notice that they too have canines (which are MUCH bigger than ours). Then look at the teeth of, say, a lion. Which are ours more like?!? Our teeth are not suitable for sinking into the side of a cow and ripping a piece off.
2) If the only food left on the planet was meat then either it was already dead and would run out eventually causing starvation, or it was still alive and would need plant sources to survive. Either there is plant food available or the meat would run out eventually anyway, so eating it would just prolong an inevitable starvation. This is another "argument" that irritates me.
3) Studies that prove or disprove that meat causes diseases are usually very biased towards the views of the researcher. Don't forget as well that the pharmaceutical companies makes a hell of a lot of money out of you being sick. If you stop being sick they stop making money. Also, if they tell you that the real way to get healthy is to stop taking meds and start eating veg they'd stop making money. So it's in their interest that you continue to get sick. There's a reason behind the saying "an apple a day keeps the doctor away".
Also, I am vegan for so many reasons. Firstly, I view all creatures as having equal rights to their own lives, and to live without suffering. Cows were not "made" for us to abuse and exploit. Nor were any other animals. Milk and eggs (other than the reasons that eggs are a chickens menstruation and milk is designed to turn a baby cow into a great big heifer) has death as by products - the male calves that are born so the cow produces milk are often kept anemic and motionless to keep their flesh white and tender for veal. Also I have feminist reasons - why should female chickens and cows be exploited just for their reproductive system byproducts?!
I could talk forever about this, but I feel that I would be a) preaching to the choir and/or b) talking to people who have made up their mind to continue using animals.
But again read about low cholesterol and how it affects people who don't get it. You CANNOT get cholesterol through plant based foods.0 -
It's more than obvious that ethics play a part in the choice of many to be vegan or vegetarian. Unfortunately us meat eaters don't have time to or resources to raise our own farm animals and comfort them before using them for food.
But again read about low cholesterol and how it affects people who don't get it. You CANNOT get cholesterol through plant based foods.
See my above post.0 -
If you want to eat meat, I'm all for it. I prefer to keep my meat intake very low and I don't need to defend any study or produce any study for or against eating meat in order to make choices for myself that I believe are good for me. To each their own but it seems like this isn't the actual goal in this thread.0
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Wow that took a long time to read through!
Few things:
1) Our teeth are not designed to eat meat. This annoys me so much when used as an argument! Look at a gorillas teeth (vegan, except for a couple of ants now and then) and notice that they too have canines (which are MUCH bigger than ours). Then look at the teeth of, say, a lion. Which are ours more like?!? Our teeth are not suitable for sinking into the side of a cow and ripping a piece off.
2) If the only food left on the planet was meat then either it was already dead and would run out eventually causing starvation, or it was still alive and would need plant sources to survive. Either there is plant food available or the meat would run out eventually anyway, so eating it would just prolong an inevitable starvation. This is another "argument" that irritates me.
3) Studies that prove or disprove that meat causes diseases are usually very biased towards the views of the researcher. Don't forget as well that the pharmaceutical companies makes a hell of a lot of money out of you being sick. If you stop being sick they stop making money. Also, if they tell you that the real way to get healthy is to stop taking meds and start eating veg they'd stop making money. So it's in their interest that you continue to get sick. There's a reason behind the saying "an apple a day keeps the doctor away".
Also, I am vegan for so many reasons. Firstly, I view all creatures as having equal rights to their own lives, and to live without suffering. Cows were not "made" for us to abuse and exploit. Nor were any other animals. Milk and eggs (other than the reasons that eggs are a chickens menstruation and milk is designed to turn a baby cow into a great big heifer) has death as by products - the male calves that are born so the cow produces milk are often kept anemic and motionless to keep their flesh white and tender for veal. Also I have feminist reasons - why should female chickens and cows be exploited just for their reproductive system byproducts?!
I could talk forever about this, but I feel that I would be a) preaching to the choir and/or b) talking to people who have made up their mind to continue using animals.
The "if only meat was left on the planet" was an arguement that I created to see what the vegan community would do in that kind of situation. It was a hypothetical question, and in no way was I trying to decipher whether or not it could be possible for a cow to live if there weren't any more plants, etc.
The thread wasn't intended to bash vegetarians but moreso to learn as to what their reasonings are. There are some who claim they are vegetarians but eat fish, and then there are some who have ethical issues with the cruelty of animals but wear leather and wool clothing.
I'm not saying you are one of these people, I'm just speaking in general.0 -
I've read Food, Inc. It didn't change my mind. My personal belief is that we are the sentient species on the planet. I am not against eating any kind of meat other than humans. I personally don't eat fish because I don't like the taste. I have nothing against those that choose not to eat meat, that's their choice and they are free to live life how they want.0
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What it negates to say as stated in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism ( a much better source for study) is that while you liver can "make" cholesterol, it has to get it from somewhere. Protein, carbs and fats can supply it, but it then has to be transported and guess what the transport system it uses? LDL. So your LDL goes up.
http://www.jofamericanscience.org/journals/am-sci/0201/05-mahongbao-0105.pdf
Read the first paragraph of the introduction, specifically the part where it says "the body makes enough cholesterol, so any dietary cholesterol isn't needed."0
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