*Serious subject* - Protection while walk/jog/running in you

3dogsrunning

"You can be as aware of your surroundings as you want, but that's not going to keep you from being attacked in most cases."

Yes, it can go a long way. Attackers are often looking for easy targets.

I think one of the biggest dangers is the false sense of security these weapons are providing. Statistics show that far too often the victim's weapon is used against them. If you don't know how and aren't prepared to use a weapon, it is useless. More than that, dangerous.

For those who carry bear spray/mace/OC spray (pepper spray), do you know how to use it properly? Do you know the limitations? Have you been exposed to it before? In many situations it is going to be useless, or worse, end you can end up contaminating yourself. What is your back up plan if that fails? OC spray isn't effective on everyone, even assuming it is properly used, like people who are very goal oriented or are under the influence.

I don't carry any weapons with me when I run. We do not have CCW permits here, it is illegal to carry concealed weapons like knives and OC spray and ASPs are not legal. Bear spray must be in a larger container that does not make it easy to run with. I choose to follow the law.
I am constantly aware of my surroundings and am trained in self defense. I stick to main roads, people know my plan and carry my phone. I also have 3 dogs to run with (go figure).

My only contribution to this thread is that if you do choose to carry weapons, train with them. Be comfortable. Know how to use them. And still have a backup plan.

wellbert

Carrying blades seems like a terrible idea. They will probably just end up in the hands of your assailant that already knows how to use them.

Pepperspray, tazer, these are good options IMO.

gashinshotan

It's ironic to me that a majority of the people I know who are big into self defense and carrying guns are Christian... if you really believed in God wouldn't you have enough faith in him to protect you? Ever since I became Christian I stopped carrying knives and have just trusted God.... and it has led me to have less confrontations with people on my runs because they can see I'm not suspicious of them... I dunno it just seems sad that I was able to walk anywhere safely in Syria (even a Palestinian refugee camp) in the dead of night and not have to fear anyone while in this country we're taught to view everyone as a potential enemy... it goes both ways though because Americans tend to be more violent towards one another than practically all first and second world nations (barring Russia) but its also because we care more about individual welfare than the common good so it leads us to be more defensive than we have to....

3dogsrunning

Carrying blades seems like a terrible idea. They will probably just end up in the hands of your assailant that already knows how to use them.

Pepperspray, tazer, these are good options IMO.

Both of which can have a number of limitations. Both may be useless if it is a surprise attack or from behind. Taser requires a specific distance for ideal effect. Close range it can be used as a stun gun which is pain compliance only, not incapacitating. Both require you actually hit a target area, the Taser is a little more forgiving. Those are just some examples.


I actually came back to touch on dogs - they are a deterrent only. Never depend on your dog to defend you regardless of any protective behavior you may believe you have seen unless the dog has specifically trained in protection.

brocantrs

Are you really encouraging people to go run with guns and knives?

Can't read?

Rain_Howard

Carrying blades seems like a terrible idea. They will probably just end up in the hands of your assailant that already knows how to use them.

Pepperspray, tazer, these are good options IMO.

Pepper spray is not always effective and can easily be blocked by glasses or a quick hand. Also, many people aren't affected by pepper spray. The same with a tazer or stun gun. A tazer can be ineffective through thick clothing.

My advice to women in general and even to some men. Find and take a self defense class. Many times collages and other places will offer them either free or very low cost. Learn how to use the tools you have to fight. I carry a gun. That only works if I see the threat in time and can get it out. The same is true of any other self defense item. However, learning to use your body can give you a weapon that you always have at the ready.

How many women have longer fingernails? These can be used as a nasty and effective weapon if you know how. As can your head, your feet and your knees.

One of the best weapons anyone has available to them at all times is their voice. Scream, make a lot of noise, get as much attention as you can.

Be safe, be healthy, be happy.

mreichard

I'm a non-gun owner. When I was a little kid, I played constantly with my parents' unsecured firearms, and I almost shot my big brother when I was 12 (he was LOUDLY breaking into our house late at night after getting drunk for the first time --- I thought it was a home invasion, as did my mom). Later in life, I worked out at a dojo where just about everyone but me had a gun in their gym bag (I was one of the few students who as not a cop or a CO), and it kind of freaked me out.

So, I'll probably never own guns. But, I've learned that gun owners come in all types and that most people are more responsible than my parents were.

I'm just posting to compliment the reasonable tone of just about everyone on this thread, particularly the gun owners.

BrewerGeorge

... Statistics show that far too often the victim's weapon is used against them. If you don't know how and aren't prepared to use a weapon, it is useless. More than that, dangerous.
...

That may be true for blades (I don't know) but it is not true for firearms. That's a myth.

When confronted by a firearm, a criminal will behave similarly to a "normal" person. If they are themselves armed, they will either disengage and go bother somebody safer for them, or they will defend themselves with their own weapon. If they are not armed, they are much more likely to flee; they don't want to be shot and there are 50 unarmed potential victims for every one that is armed. Worst case for the armed victim is that he will be disarmed, but the assailant still prefers to continue the attack with his own weapons/hands rather than an unfamiliar gun.

Johnny_Castle

Holly crap! WOW! you guys living down south need to PACK HEAT or carry AT LEAST 2 knives and/or a tactical baton just feel safe when literally going for a walk in the park?! I think you should also put on several bullet-proof vests and a radiation suit when going for a walk while you're at it. It sounds like great material for a Canadian stand-up comic. Here in Canada we only have to worry about squirrels and beavers so thankfully no need for all these things.

dad106

I take walks around our local lake and through our neighborhood when it's nice in the summer. I go during the daytime when it's well populated and there are lots of programs going on. The only real threat that I've encountered out there is a crazed goose... and yes there have been a few homeless people that hang around there, but none of them have ever bothered anyone.. they mainly sleep when they are out there.

I never think to bring knives or guns or anything like that for fear that they would get turned on me and I'd get injured instead of the person attacking me. I bring an ipod, my cellphone and my house key.. and thats about it. If need be, I could stab someone with my house key, but I don't think it would do much good.

Now that it's winter time and it gets darker earlier, I go to my gym. I hate the cold anyway, so I'd much rather be indoors then walking outside anyway..

jfinnivan

Unless you've had extensive training in knife fighting, I wouldn't recommend depending on a knife to defend yourself. Unless you know what you're doing, somebody with something as trivial as a trash can lid (or whatever) could easily deflect your knife and take it away from you.

Vaanja

I do my hiking out in the middle of nowhere...farm/country roads for miles and miles. I don't have many people worries, but the few people that Do live out here all have uber territorial large dogs that aren't restrained or confined in any way. There are some roads I simply do not walk down. Where I DO walk I always carry my pepper spray as a first go-to and my Walther PK380 just as an acknowledgement that I'm in the middle of nowhere, and screaming and cellphones will do me little good.

And, you know. Zombies.

wellbert

I always see these pictures of self defense classes with some 110lb woman throwing a 200lb man over her shoulder or other such nonsense. I wonder how many of these classes are actually effective?

I'd guess not very many - unless what they are really teaching is avoidance and awareness.

DopeItUp

It's ironic to me that a majority of the people I know who are big into self defense and carrying guns are Christian... if you really believed in God wouldn't you have enough faith in him to protect you? Ever since I became Christian I stopped carrying knives and have just trusted God.... and it has led me to have less confrontations with people on my runs because they can see I'm not suspicious of them... I dunno it just seems sad that I was able to walk anywhere safely in Syria (even a Palestinian refugee camp) in the dead of night and not have to fear anyone while in this country we're taught to view everyone as a potential enemy... it goes both ways though because Americans tend to be more violent towards one another than practically all first and second world nations (barring Russia) but its also because we care more about individual welfare than the common good so it leads us to be more defensive than we have to....

Kind of an interesting way of looking at it. Let me ask you a question:

Do you wear your seatbelt? If so, why? God will protect you if you get in a car accident right?

If you're walking down the street and a car careens out of control towards you, do you stand there or do you move out of the way? Why bother trying to avoid it, god is going to save you right?

Do you carry health/car/homeowners insurance? If so, why? God is all you need to stay healthy and protect your valuable belongings right?

I think you see where I'm going with this. Having faith is good and all, but the reality is that you're on your own in life.

CMmrsfloyd

bumping for later. I don't jog outdoors much yet but intend to in the future. Would probably consider pepper spray or one of those ASP batons I saw mentioned on page one. No firearms in my household. Will come back and read other posts later.

P.S. Just for a little humor, I originally clicked into this topic b/c I thought it was going to be about bladder protection. 2 babies and that's the protection I think of when you talk about jogging. LOL

Barneystinson

I have a CCW permit in PA, gun owner, member of a local gun club. I haven't carried on a run yet but am strongly considering it. Because seriously, I'm no fool. I don't care that I can lift a lot of weight, I'm at a serious disadvantage at 5 foot tall, 130 lbs, against the stereotypical larger attacker. Outside of women and children, most people are taller and larger than myself.

I'm also agnostic, female, and a registered democrat. Guess I'm defying the stereotype, eh?

lorals05

They make very small, travel size cans of mace/bear repellant these days. I don't see the harm in carrying one in your (I mean anyone reading this) running belt. I mean you're running, right? Spray & run like HELL! Making lots of noise along the way.

And as nerdy as this sounds, wasp spray works similiar to Mace, however it is designed to spray farther. It's not fatal to humans but will stop someone in their tracks. I try to always have a small bottle around.

woou

My dogs will rip anyone trying to physically harm me apart. :noway:

Other than that, I just run at a nearby track when other people are running. And would advise running when there are a lot of people outdoors. If it isn't feasible, treadmill (hitch that incline UP!) or other form of exercise. Running isn't the only exercise available.

The most dangerous people can seem very harmless. You just don't know.

Barneystinson

I'm not a fan of guns period --- but I do carry a mace/noise thingie.

Another great thing is to get a RoadID --- unless you carry your wallet with all your other stuff.
You never know when you're going to faint, trip, get hit by a car. I always wear my RoadID too.

I personally would not want to walk or run around my neighborhood if I knew everyone was packing a gun. Yuck. That's why I go to a gym where they are banned.

Respectfully, do you really think criminals care about guns being banned anywhere? Just so you know, you probably pass lots of people every day who carry guns concealed. You need not worry about the law-abiding citizen who carries a gun, you need to worry about the guy who has no regard for the law or you. Be safe, be alert.

You also need to worry about the dumbass who gets road rage or pissed off if you cut in front of their bike when they had a bad day. People are scary. I've actually seen someone get out of their car in a traffic jam and walk up and smash someones window. Law abiding citizens who know how to use guns are just as likely to rage and someone without one.

That doesn't happen though. CCW permit holders are - by definition - one of the most law-abiding groups of people. If they weren't they couldn't qualify for the permit. Statistic prove that it is extraordinarily rare that a CCW permit is revoked for cause.

I did my Bachelor's thesis on this subject, and I could bore you all to death with statistics, but I don't think this is the venue for that. You can either trust me, or look up the info yourself if you care enough. It's all out there. Start with googling John Lott if you're interested.

My boyfriend would LOVE to read that. He's pretty much the encyclopedia of firearms statistics. (and is also a CCW holder)

robinaddison

I think most people are missing the point that carrying a gun or other weapon is not going to be an option for most of us, though. Personally, I would never carry something that could be used against me. Guns, knives, batons, even pepper spray. If I'm attacked, I'm not expecting it obviously, but the attacker is. How easy is it to get a weapon from the hands of someone who's shocked, scared and surprised?

There are so many ways to greatly lessen the likelihood of attacks:

Run with a partner.
Run during daylight if at all possible.
At night, run only in well-lit, populated areas.
Vary your routine and path from day to day.
Take your mobile with you.
Carry a rape horn or whistle.
Let someone else know when you are leaving and when you should be back.
Stay aware of your surroundings and don't wear headphones that drown out surrounding noise.
Don't be afraid to make noise if you feel someone is a threat. Don't worry about embarrassing yourself or the other person if there are doubts--it's way better to be embarrassed than to end up attacked. If someone starts approaching you and you don't feel safe in any way, start shouting stuff like, "Stay away from me. Stop it! Get away!" Basically anything to draw attention to the situation.

If for some horrible reason you are attacked, the best defense is to scream like a banshee. Scream your head off. Kick and punch like a mofo and AS SOON as you can, run like hell to get away. I've taken self-defense courses and this is the basis, really. It's about saving your own life and getting somewhere safe, not making the other person pay.

Honestly, if I were as nervous and scared about running outside as some on this thread, I would invest in a gym or a treadmill. A treadmill costs about as much as a gun. I don't think the stress of working out outside in fear would be worth it to me. But, to each his own.

I can't really judge other people who choose to carry guns or other weapons, I just wouldn't do that. And yes, I'm saying that as someone who has been violently attacked in the past, so please don't try to tell me that my view would change. Nothing's going to prevent every possible attack; I just think non-weapon ways of lessening the chances are a safer option.

^^^^^ this.

BrewerGeorge

And as nerdy as this sounds, wasp spray works similiar to Mace, however it is designed to spray farther. It's not fatal to humans but will stop someone in their tracks. I try to always have a small bottle around.

I'm not saying don't use it as a last resort to protect yourself, but its legally risky to PLAN to use it. Paradoxically, you're at more legal risk - especially civil risk of being sued by your attacker - if you "misuse" wasp spray on them than if you use purpose-designed CS or OC spray. Wasp spray is a neurotoxin, that IS fatal to humans in large doses and concentrations. It's just the small amount in the can that makes it "safe" for people. A plaintiff's lawyer could have a field day describing its effects and you might end up having to pay the guy who tried to attack you. Around here, there's also a legal warning on the side about using those things in any other manner than directed which could expose you to some criminal risk as well.

Obviously all of that is better than being victimized, but if you're buying something for protection, just get the CS/OC spray and avoid all that crap.

bestrodeo

I live in Texas, I live in the country I don't run.. However my husband who is very fit, ex military who is a runner runs 6 to 14 miles a day. He carries a pistol with him.. He even requests I carry one with me when i walk with the kids. He says you just dont know what might happen.. Id get a small .22 or something you can carry easily, my friend carries a .22 in her sports bra and shes active military as well..

Good luck and be careful

speedyf

I live just outside a very small town, very very quiet neighborhood, country part, and this morning, I finally ran my 5 miles! But this victory was shadowed by a guy in a dark van that pass by 3 times. And for the first time, I was running in a more quieter place... the road just behind my house... And I couldn't get home fast enough.

I started running last October, and security always been a priority, reason why I always ran in the most populated area, for safety, and I always only put on one earbug... But this morning, I decided to add that road behind our house 'cause I wanted to run 5 miles, and I knew this would... I live in Canada, so guns are out of the question and I would never carry one anyway, but I will definitely get a whistle!

hsmithway

Carrying a gun without knowing how to use it quickly and effectively is a nice recipe for your attacker grabbing it and shooting you with it instead of the other way around.

This.

Personally I don't carry a gun or a knife for self-defense because I'm aware that in my unskilled hands, the odds of me (or someone I care about) being killed or injured by my own weapon are much greater than the odds of me being in a situation where I could use it to save myself.

Pepper spray might be a good idea, though. Even if I got sprayed by my own pepper spray, at least that in and of itself wouldn't cause any lasting physical damage.

And I do have a dog that goes with me when I walk. Her deterrent effect is debatable. She's very protective - will growl and raise her hackles at any man who tries to approach me in an unusual manner or carrying any kind of object, but she's only 40lbs, so not terribly large.

SoDamnHungry

Are you really encouraging people to go run with guns and knives?

If your area isn't safe, then you probably should have some protection. You're probably less safe when out for a run or jog than normal because you're winded.

grinch031

I think short of carrying a firearm, there isn't a whole lot you can do to really be safe. Take a self-defense class and carry mace, IF you insist on running by yourself. I would recommend to run with another person though. I am a male, and while the risk to me is much less, I still feel very nervous about running in certain areas where I live because I have read lots of reports of robberies and beatings by groups of thugs who attack people walking down jogging paths. I will never run outside at night for that reason even down a lit sidewalk, and I end up doing most of my runs on the treadmill.

KimmieBrie

When I jog outdoors I make sure there are a lot of people around and I have a whistle and my keys to use as a weapon...
There's a heavy police presence there as well. I make sure my husband and friends know where I went and when I left and when I should be back.

I always wonder why people I know personally feel safer in the country burbs... if you run out there alone anyone can grab you and your closest neighbor probably won't hear a whistle or scream... here in the city there are cameras and people everywhere, yet people fear it more. I don't get it. It doesn't ensure safety of course... I just don't see a deserted country road as safer by any means... and if in that environment I would carry more for protection.

Stay safe everyone!

galvestongal

My dog goes with me. He is large and very vocal, not to mention VERY protective. If it is after dark, I generally stay inside and run on the treadmill instead.

leadoff

My favorite running route starts on our family farm's dirt road and carries me along plenty of rural back country roads.....nothing but farms and old farmhouses. I've only had a couple of "questionable" incidents ever since I have been running the route, and both incidents reassured my decision to carry while running. Quite honestly, though, protecting myself from a human threat is only the second reason I carry while running. The threat of feral dogs is the main reason, especially on this particular route.

For those interested, I use the PT-2 holster from Pistol Wear. It fits snug and conceals and holds the weapon very well. Plus, I carry a Kel-Tec P32 while running, so I hardly notice that added weight at all.

porffor

If you want to carry a spray that can't be seen as illegal.. deodrant would be my first choice.. still stings like hell and they do tiny ones for handbags so can pop it in your bra / pants whatever.

I grew up in London. I can't pretend it's the gun totting areas that some of you are living in, but I have a basic knowledge of Judo and Karate - I did judo from 15 at school and the first thing my instructor taught me was how to throw a 6' 6th former (2 years older than me). I'm 5'3" and remember giggling about the fact I'd never be able to throw him.. he taught me fast and taught me well! once I had my man on the floor the instruction was to hold him there, with the knowledge he gave me that I was to scream for help because he was ill.. not to shout rape or whateer as no one would listen to that!

I must confess over recent years I have become complacent. I live near a rural welsh town, there are drug users and a few rough area's in the town but we live a few miles away from there. So.. thank you for this post, I won't be carrying a knife (other than the tiny pen knife I have - which yes I know is still a knife and I never forget that.. i've carried one for the last decade). But I will be more careful, I come off a train in the dark, walk to my car and drive away.. I can't even tell you how to lock my car from the inside - which is something I have done in the past if worried.

Hope you can all feel a bit safer, if your area's are too rough, the advice about running with company, daylight etc really is key.. but ultimately is your life worth a run on the road? why not hit the gym?