diet soda

ShapeUpSidney

Gotcha. In that regard diet pop would be a good alternative to regular pop, if someone was trying to reduce their calories and sugar intake and also have symptoms of insulin resistance or other metabolic dysfunction associated with carbs in general.

I was just addressing what another poster claimed, about how diet pop created an insulin response that affects blood sugar, and you end up being hungrier than you ought to feel... (an insulin response like that seems abnormal and disadvantageous)

And the point I made is that none of the studies I've read postulate this mechanism of action or ANY mechanism of action to explain the "alleged" post-diet soda sugar cravings.

appleseeds

perfect, since there is no sugar in diet soda.

Oh aren't you cute? Well considering its the phosphoric acid in soda that causes tooth decay, the absence of sugar isn't all that helpful

I put away a case every two-three days. Have been doing so for three years. Just had my checkup, and my teeth are perfect.
All that scary acid must have somehow passed me by. :huh:

Me too. Diet coke is all I drank as a kid and I drink 1 600ml bottle every day and my teeth are perfect.

LorinaLynn

The artifical sweetner in any diet beverage, still causes insulin spikes thru the roof, which tells your body to store fat until the levels come back down..Insulin levels need to stay low for fat loss, thus the low carb diet.
A recent "Men's Health" magazine article stated that over 10 yrs of drinking diet soda, your waist size was likely 5 times bigger than someone who does not........ drinks for thought.

Lol so much inaccurate information here.

<--- Diet soda drinker.

I'm a bit frightened of what I'd look like with my waist five times smaller than it is! :noway:

darrcn5

I drink a ton of Diet Mountain Dew, but I also drink a ton of water. Drinking the Dt. Mt. Dew doesn't effect my weight loss, but not drinking adequate water does.

katatak1

Causing someone to consume more and creating an insulin response from 0 calories are not the same thing. There needs to be calories to create an insulin response, and diet pop doesn't have calories.

I think it's also important to state that there is a correlation between diet soda consumption and obesity, but that doesnt imply causation. When I read the prospective study (not the in vivo animal model study), the thing that strikes me is that people in the "high consumption" category are the same people that don't eat healthy foods in general. I consider that a pretty strong confounding variable...

Also, research *suggests* that the "non-delivery of anticipated calories" in diet drinks increases cravings for sugary foods, but the mechanism of action (insulin response, etc) has not been elucidated. At this point, it's just a hint...an idea. No one has *proven* it and no one has pointed out exactly HOW it happens.

There's more than just correlation here... at least in animals. I'm a researcher with a specialty in methodological sciences and statistics, and so I heavily research studies before talking about them. What I can say about some of what I've read is this: Mice and rats (who have very similar physiology to humans have shown (most researchers never try to "prove" anything, we just "show")) that being exposed to aspartame increases the insulin response. This can't be chocked up to eating habits because that is very strictly controlled in animal studies. As far as the actual method- I haven't found anything on that... but we don't know how most medications actually work, so I won't hold my breath for that before I decide that sodas are probably a bad idea.

MercenaryNoetic26

I switched from diet to regular Coke. Now diet tastes like doodoo to me. But I can CONTROL myself. Regular Coca Cola is a reward for me. I drink it as much as I eat steak; occasionally. Plus, I hate aspartame. I'll have a Diet Coke and Bacardi... see when I'm drinking alcohol, I need to reserve as many calories as possible so I can have the most drinks possible!

katatak1

Isn't there a scientific or mathematical term to describe when something is tangentially related to something else, but not a correlation? I forget what it's called...

Are you thinking of a mediation effect?
mediation= a causes b and b causes c

Correlations still exist here, and indeed there can be both direct and indirect effects of a on b (meaning a partial or full mediation, depending). The values you would get are regression coefficients which are related to correlations.

ShapeUpSidney

There's more than just correlation here... at least in animals. I'm a researcher with a specialty in methodological sciences and statistics, and so I heavily research studies before talking about them. What I can say about some of what I've read is this: Mice and rats (who have very similar physiology to humans have shown (most researchers never try to "prove" anything, we just "show")) that being exposed to aspartame increases the insulin response. This can't be chocked up to eating habits because that is very strictly controlled in animal studies. As far as the actual method- I haven't found anything on that... but we don't know how most medications actually work, so I won't hold my breath for that before I decide that sodas are probably a bad idea.

I was speaking specifically about the UTSA prospective study, though, which has significant confounding.

ShapeUpSidney

Are you thinking of a mediation effect?
mediation= a causes b and b causes c

Correlations still exist here, and indeed there can be both direct and indirect effects of a on b (meaning a partial or full mediation, depending). The values you would get are regression coefficients which are related to correlations.

Yes! THANK YOU!

ShapeUpSidney

[What I can say about some of what I've read is this: Mice and rats (who have very similar physiology to humans have shown (most researchers never try to "prove" anything, we just "show")) that being exposed to aspartame increases the insulin response. This can't be chocked up to eating habits because that is very strictly controlled in animal studies.

And earlier, I think I pointed to some in vivo mouse studies too, noting that they were fed aspartame with chow, to see the effect in the insulin response. Because people may have a diet soda with or without food, I'd like to see the effect on insulin levels when aspartame is consumed with food, without, and at different time points with respect to meals. I think it would be a good follow up study...

katatak1

[What I can say about some of what I've read is this: Mice and rats (who have very similar physiology to humans have shown (most researchers never try to "prove" anything, we just "show")) that being exposed to aspartame increases the insulin response. This can't be chocked up to eating habits because that is very strictly controlled in animal studies.

And earlier, I think I pointed to some in vivo mouse studies too, noting that they were fed aspartame with chow, to see the effect in the insulin response. Because people may have a diet soda with or without food, I'd like to see the effect on insulin levels when aspartame is consumed with food, without, and at different time points with respect to meals. I think it would be a good follow up study...

That would be an interesting follow up! I work at a university, so I have access to vast databases of medical research studies. I'm going to look around tomorrow and see if I can find any sources which examine this. I'll message you if I find anything interesting

ShapeUpSidney

That would be an interesting follow up! I work at a university, so I have access to vast databases of medical research studies. I'm going to look around tomorrow and see if I can find any sources which examine this. I'll message you if I find anything interesting

I would really appreciate that!

CyberEd312

The artifical sweetner in any diet beverage, still causes insulin spikes thru the roof, which tells your body to store fat until the levels come back down..Insulin levels need to stay low for fat loss, thus the low carb diet.
A recent "Men's Health" magazine article stated that over 10 yrs of drinking diet soda, your waist size was likely 5 times bigger than someone who does not........ drinks for thought.

Lol so much inaccurate information here.

Well I must be the exception to the rule then cause in the beginning had full blown type 2 diabetes with A1C of 9.9, weighed 560 lbs., and had a severely fatty liver among others health problems. And I changed my whole lifestyle except for one thing (my Diet Pepsi) which I still drink on average 3- 24oz. bottles a day (along with 64 oz. of water) and today am now pre-diabetic and have been for 10 months, and my teeth are no worse for wear, and I have lost 283 lbs.

ShapeUpSidney

Well I must be the exception to the rule then cause in the beginning had full blown type 2 diabetes with A1C of 9.9, weighed 560 lbs., and had a severely fatty liver among others health problems. And I changed my whole lifestyle except for one thing (my Diet Pepsi) which I still drink on average 3- 24oz. bottles a day (along with 64 oz. of water) and today am now pre-diabetic and have been for 10 months, and my teeth are no worse for wear, and I have lost 283 lbs.

You lost 283 pounds and beat diabetes. I'd say you're an exception to a lot of rules, and should be damn proud of it

neanderthin

Well I must be the exception to the rule then cause in the beginning had full blown type 2 diabetes with A1C of 9.9, weighed 560 lbs., and had a severely fatty liver among others health problems. And I changed my whole lifestyle except for one thing (my Diet Pepsi) which I still drink on average 3- 24oz. bottles a day (along with 64 oz. of water) and today am now pre-diabetic and have been for 10 months, and my teeth are no worse for wear, and I have lost 283 lbs.

You lost 283 pounds and beat diabetes. I'd say you're an exception to a lot of rules, and should be damn proud of it

Also while drinking a hell of a lot of diet pesi. Very nice Ed, that's amazing.

RonSwanson66

[What I can say about some of what I've read is this: Mice and rats (who have very similar physiology to humans have shown (most researchers never try to "prove" anything, we just "show")) that being exposed to aspartame increases the insulin response. This can't be chocked up to eating habits because that is very strictly controlled in animal studies.

Mice and rats have VASTLY different metabolic processes.

Case in point: DNL is extremely efficient in rodents, but inefficient in humans.

Human studies, on the other hand, have failed to show a link:

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/12/2184.full

Pay close attention to this part:
"In the present study, no significant differences were observed in either plasma glucose or insulin after diet soda versus carbonated water ingestion,"

seal57

I drink a bottle of Coke Zero roughly 3 days a week.....That is only 3 bottles..I have it when I'm working or when I have lunch out when I'm not....

Coke Zero does have calories. 390ml has 1 calorie. 600ml has 2 calories.....

I used to drink pepsi a lot before I found MFP......That's when I changed to Coke Zero and also cut back............

fluteypie

After I started drinking less soda (diet, too - I've never been a fan of regular, anyway) I noticed how much slimmer I *felt*. All that carbonation bloats you, and when you really pay attention to your body, you will notice what foods bloat you and make you feel sluggish. I still drink a diet coke or two per week but it's really only a treat anymore, and if I can help it, I choose water or tea instead!

katatak1

[What I can say about some of what I've read is this: Mice and rats (who have very similar physiology to humans have shown (most researchers never try to "prove" anything, we just "show")) that being exposed to aspartame increases the insulin response. This can't be chocked up to eating habits because that is very strictly controlled in animal studies.

Mice and rats have VASTLY different metabolic processes.

Case in point: DNL is extremely efficient in rodents, but inefficient in humans.

Human studies, on the other hand, have failed to show a link:

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/12/2184.full

Pay close attention to this part:
"In the present study, no significant differences were observed in either plasma glucose or insulin after diet soda versus carbonated water ingestion,"

I had not read that study until now. A couple things which are important to note: It's dangerous to draw conclusions from a sample size of 22. This study also makes it's conclusions based on the "statistical significance cutoff" of p=.05. That's evidence of someone who isn't really solid in their understanding of statistics. Instead of an arbitrary line being drawn to say "that's significant, but this isn't," we should really be looking at effect sizes and confidence intervals- espically when you have such a small sample size.

Now, on to the conclusions made by the study- yes, there were no significant differences in plasma glucose or insulin- but there was in GLP. The other very important thing to note, however, is that there were no carbohydrates in the study. Other studies which include carbohydrates paint a different response- suggesting that carbs, when combined with artificial sweeteners increase glucose and insulin more than carbs alone. That would mean that carbs mediate the effect of fake sugars. So, following that logic, diet sodas would be fine, so long as you don't eat anything while you are drinking them.

RonSwanson66

The other very important thing to note, however, is that there were no carbohydrates in the study.

Did you even bother reading the TITLE of the study? Or don't you realize that glucose is a carbohydrate?

Please post any HUMAN trials that contradict this study.