For the non-meat eaters...

vaderandbill

It would suck if it happened to me...but if some creature wanted to shoot me in the woods then I wouldn't go in the woods. Also, it is not as if I kill an animal, grunt, pat myself on the back and leave it there...I use as much of the animal as possible.

Not trying to turn this into a debate or anything, but how exactly would an animal "not go into the woods"? They live there, so really it would be more like you not going into your own home.

Also, I understand that you use as much of the animal as possible, but I feel like that is a poor justification since there's no real need for killing the animal in the first place.

I really need to find the sarcasm font or learn to start using those icons.

2April

"The reason is to get all my macros without promoting the unnecessary suffering of other sentient creatures, not to mention the environmental impact. Besides, what's wrong with adult discussion?"

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I noticed in your pics, (daffodilsoup), you have three different pairs of glasses. Don't you think your unneccesary consumption of manufactured goods is also promoting the suffering of animals and negatively impacting the environment? Why just point the finger at meat eaters?

According to Worldwatch: "Unprecedented consumer appetite is undermining the natural systems we all depend on, and making it even harder for the world's poor to meet their basic needs."

This creates a "devastating toll on the Earth's water supplies, natural resources, and ecosystems exacted by a plethora of cheaply made goods with built in product-obsolescence, and cheaply made manufactured goods that lead to a "throw away" mentality.

"Most of the environmental issues we see today can be linked to consumption," said Gary Gardner, director of research for Worldwatch. "As just one small example, 37 percent of species could become extinct due to climate change, which is very directly related to consumption."

Charlottejogs

Firstly, an unfertilized egg is not life. That is like saying that when a woman ovulates, the egg is a person.
Secondly, as a vegetarian, I prefer when people hunt their own meat. My partner hunts. I can guarantee the deer that was shot suffered a heck of a lot less than an average beef cow.
I'm vegetarian for many reasons, I hated the taste and texture of meat, I hate the cruelty that occurs, and I want to minimize the impact I have on the environment.

Generally, some people choose not to include eggs because a) it is wrong to exploit animals, and b) it is more for the chicken than for the egg. Once people do a little research about the lives of egg-laying hens (or male chicks born in the egg industry), it becomes clear that just because the hen "isn't killed" for her eggs doesn't mean that it's an industry that deserves support.

While I prefer (ugh, I hate the use of the word prefer here, I hate both) hunting to factory farms, I still don't believe any human has the right to take the life of another sentient being simply for a few moments of gustatory pleasure. Sure they "suffer" less than an animal raised in a factory farm, but does that really justify it? Would that justify it if it happened to you?

I have many reasons for being vegetarian and would probably be vegan if I could give up cheese

www.daiyafoods.com

No excuses now

Edited to Add: "Happy Meat" is an oxymoron.

Sadly I just like the real stuff- gorgonzola, gouda, brie- yum! I have been working on eating less of these things. And- as a vegetarian I do not know that much about the whole process of locally grown "happy meat" as I said previously described; however- to create a crude analogy- I don't mind if after my long and happy life I am eaten to nourish another- okey dokey. I know that is weird but those are my thoughts. I guess I was trying to be open minded about others making the decision to eat meat.

woou

I actually really admire those who choose to eat a mostly or completely non-meat based diet. Not saying this is true for everyone who eats meat, but I can honestly say for myself that I eat meat right now for my own selfish needs. I completely see how my macros & micros can be met with a plant-based diet and definitely aspire towards a plant-based diet one day. Unfortunately, right now, I'm just too selfish to learn how to cook other dishes that could also satisfy my tastebuds as meat does. Yep. I suck.

daffodilsoup

I really need to find the sarcasm font or learn to start using those icons.

Crap! I'm usually pretty good at picking up on sarcasm, but that one went over my head. Sorry 'bout that.

I noticed in your pics, (daffodilsoup), you have three different pairs of glasses. Don't you think your unneccesary consumption of manufactured goods is also promoting the suffering of animals and negatively impacting the environment? Why just point the finger at meat eaters?

According to Worldwatch: "Unprecedented consumer appetite is undermining the natural systems we all depend on, and making it even harder for the world's poor to meet their basic needs."

This creates a "devastating toll on the Earth's water supplies, natural resources, and ecosystems exacted by a plethora of cheaply made goods with built in product-obsolescence, and cheaply made manufactured goods that lead to a "throw away" mentality.

"Most of the environmental issues we see today can be linked to consumption," said Gary Gardner, director of research for Worldwatch. "As just one small example, 37 percent of species could become extinct due to climate change, which is very directly related to consumption."

You bring up some good points, 2April. I agree that consumerism is a huge issue, and even though the pairs of glasses you see in my pics are garage-sale finds, I definitely have a lot of work to do in the consumerism department. I am not perfect, and I don't expect others to be. Hell, I'll be up front with you and tell you that while living in China, I've had to consume whey protein on a pretty daily basis because I lack a kitchen/refrigerator/anything in a very vegan-unfriendly country. I feel guilty about it, and I can't wait to rid it from my diet forever when I get back to America, but right now, it's the best I can do, and that's all I can ask of myself or anyone else.

I don't "only point the finger at meat eaters" as environmental health is a shared mission, but those who adopt a vegan lifestyle [that relies mostly on fresh whole foods] contribute to far less waste/pollution than those who choose to indulge in animal products. I feel that freeing ourselves of animal products is a very big step in stopping further damage to our planet. You point out in the last quote that most environmental issues can be linked to consumption - I ask you, isn't the unnecessary raising and slaughtering of livestock included in the very broad term "consumption"?

However, I am vegan first and foremost for the animals, and the positive impact on the Earth and my health are really just great perks. I don't think any human has the right to take the life of another animal, human or otherwise. I just happen to be talking about meat eaters here because, well, that's the topic of the thread, but if another one opens up with the other topics, I will be happy to participate in that one, too.

Sadly I just like the real stuff- gorgonzola, gouda, brie- yum! I have been working on eating less of these things. And- as a vegetarian I do not know that much about the whole process of locally grown "happy meat" as I said previously described

There are some really great substitute and recipes for these types of cheese - I encourage you to try them! You might be pleasantly surprised. Most cravings for cheese are attributed to our human craving for fat and salt, so it's pretty easy to replace these needs in our diets without harming others.

however- to create a crude analogy- I don't mind if after my long and happy life I am eaten to nourish another- okey dokey. I know that is weird but those are my thoughts. I guess I was trying to be open minded about others making the decision to eat meat.

I don't think there's anything crude about that analogy! The issue with it is that most of the animals raised for human consumption don't lead long, happy lives. Even meat and eggs labeled "free range" are sad realities compared to the images the label often conjures up. I just don't think we have the right to take the life of another sentient being, especially when it is not something necessary to our survival.

I am open-minded about a lot of food choices. I understand that people have different tastes, and even when someone claims to not like vegetables and I can't understand the mentality, whatever, that's their decision. But meat is dead animals, and for me, being "open minded" about unnecessary killing is just irresponsible. Ultimately, people have the choice to put whatever they want into their mouths and I am powerless to stop them. But I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing it - people just tend to get touchy whenever their habits, traditions, etc. are questioned or criticized.

I actually really admire those who choose to eat a mostly or completely non-meat based diet. Not saying this is true for everyone who eats meat, but I can honestly say for myself that I eat meat right now for my own selfish needs. I completely see how my macros & micros can be met with a plant-based diet and definitely aspire towards a plant-based diet one day. Unfortunately, right now, I'm just too selfish to learn how to cook other dishes that could also satisfy my tastebuds as meat does.

I admire your honesty and humility

Plingie

I'd like to put my 2c worth in because I have been agonising over the ethics of eating meat for a while now and the only conclusion I came to, for me, was to turn vegetarian (which I have done!).

I think that humans ARE omnivores and are meant to hunt and eat meat etc BUT I hate hate hate the farming practices, even with so called 'free range' animals. I wont eat eggs because of the cruel battery cages or the over crouded barns. I'm easing into veganism because I don't like how the cows have to live.

Also one point about dairy and eggs not being a result of slaughter - maybe not immediately but a cow must have a calf to produce milk, these calves are killed. Once the cow is no longer productive she is slaughtered (long before her natural demise).

In the egg industry they hatch eggs to replace hens, all the boys are killed.

So eggs and dairy don't come without death. If you're milking your own cow in your own backyard, or collecting the (unfertilised) eggs of your own chickens and can look after the welfare of those animals then I think ethically it's Ok to eat them.