This person gain muscle or just lose weight?

Jeff92se

It's from some sensational weight loss site but it shows my point.

I'd thnk alot of people would think this person gained muscle. But to me, it looks like he just leaned out.

3GKnight

Yeah, he's got some shoulder muscles in the before. He's probably got some muscles under there.

TheDoctor90

No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.

That isn't how it works.

Jeff92se

No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.

That isn't how it works.

I didn't say that was how it works. I was a question of this person looked like he "gained" muscle or not. Key statement is "looks like he gained". Not actually gained.

UponThisRock

Look at his traps in the before picture, he either was already doing some lifting or he has a naturally muscular physique

Jeff92se

Right. It's hard to see progress as some wlll lean out and think the muscles that now show are "new". But sometimes that isn't the case.

TheDoctor90

No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.

That isn't how it works.

I didn't say that was how it works. I was a question of this person looked like he "gained" muscle or not. Key statement is "looks like he gained". Not actually gained.

But from the way you've worded your OP it makes it sound like he's just shed fat and that muscle is there. He must have been weight lifting during the weight loss.

manderson27

Well whatever he did he looks fit and healthy now.

Jeff92se

No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.

That isn't how it works.

I didn't say that was how it works. I was a question of this person looked like he "gained" muscle or not. Key statement is "looks like he gained". Not actually gained.

But from the way you've worded your OP it makes it sound like he's just shed fat and that muscle is there. He must have been weight lifting during the weight loss.

Right. He didn't gain necessarily. Just leaned out to show the muscle he already had. Which goes to show that some here confuse leaning out to gaining muscle.

On the other side of the coin, it's difficult to tell if one has gained or not. If one is losing fat, your measurements might actually go down even if you manage to put on muscle during the process

skywa

looks like a combination to me.

Sidesteal

Look at his traps in the before picture, he either was already doing some lifting or he has a naturally muscular physique

^ This.

I would suspect he gained no muscle mass on his cut, but he very obviously was lifting while overweight. You don't get traps and arms like that by sitting on the couch.

Elisirmon

Most people would be amazed how much muscle they have under the fat, I know alot of obese people that have very strong biceps, calf muscles and glutes. Plus you can tone muscle but to build it you have to consume huge amount of calories and be lifting several hours a day to accumalate bulk...Anywho I perfer my men with natural muscle tone not bulk muscle.

mmuzzatti

So did he have a tummy tuck too? Look at the after on the belly button it looks like it's a little tight. Really he would have loose skin so where did it go?

sportsforfun

Just because he was probably weight lifting while he was losing weight does not mean that he gained muscle. The muscle was already there. By weight lifting and losing weight in a healthy way he was able to retain the muscle that was already there. It is the same misconception most people have about abs. You already have the ab muscles there, it is a matter of shredding the fat to show the muscle. Good post Jeff.

Jeff92se

Actually the site it came from implied he just dieted and did "toning" exercises. No heavy lifting

TheDoctor90

So those saying the muscle is already there under all the fat, suppose he just did cardio, would he see that muscle once he shed the fat?

Sidesteal

Just because he was probably weight lifting while he was losing weight does not mean that he gained muscle. The muscle was already there. By weight lifting and losing weight in a healthy way he was able to retain the muscle that was already there. It is the same misconception most people have about abs. You already have the ab muscles there, it is a matter of shredding the fat to show the muscle. Good post Jeff.

^ And this. Good post.

Sidesteal

So those saying the muscle is already there under all the fat, suppose he just did cardio, would he see that muscle once he shed the fat?

Definitely no, because he would lose some of that muscle by cutting w/o lifting.

TheDoctor90

Actually the site it came from implied he just dieted and did "toning" exercises. No heavy lifting

I'm not sure what difference it makes, whether he 'gained' or not, but I call BS on 'toning' exercises.

tgh1914

Look at his traps in the before picture, he either was already doing some lifting or he has a naturally muscular physique

Exactly! There are plenty of guys (& gals) that work out a ton and can be tremendously strong and it's hard to tell them from typical overweight folk cuz of the layer of fat on top. Tons of powerlifters look .... just fat. But they have a great muscle base underneath. Many bodybuilders don't look all that impressive until they're doing their cutting phase (if they bulk the traditional way). Good comparison, OP.

joejccva71

A few things:

1. Remember the pic on the left is considered obese if not MORBIDLY obese which leads to #2.
2. You can use excessive fat stores AS CALORIES and put SOME muscle mass on.
3. It's obvious he was training even on the left picture.
4. How do we know he didn't lean out, then bulk, then lean out again?

Does the site show a progressive timeline?

There's lots of factors that could play into this. Regardless he looks good.

Jeff92se

So those saying the muscle is already there under all the fat, suppose he just did cardio, would he see that muscle once he shed the fat?

Definitely no, because he would lose some of that muscle by cutting w/o lifting.

He did "toning" work. http://www.fatvanish.com/ Like I said, it was some sensational weight loss site.

It's almost impossible to say he would't have looked like that. Genetics come into play here.

If you had two twins and one did this and one did that, perhaps you could say one would be slightly more musclar after the cut

stevenleagle

Without meaning to be negative, I would guess that perhaps he even lost some muscle mass in dieting (cutting), he looked like a very muscular guy to me in the first photo.

Having said all of that, he definitely looks far better, ripped and healthier in the second photo.

Its a bit of an inspiration to me actually as the before photos probably looks a little like me (ok, I'm probably a tad less big lol).

sportsforfun

It is possible to look like this with only doing cardio but it would take a perfect diet and an exact calorie deficit so that you are only using fat as energy. If you lose too quickly as everyone does, then the body will break down the muscle as well as fat to use as energy.

liftingbro

My guess is this guy was an athlete that got chubby over a year or two, so he still had a lot of lean mass to work with.

joejccva71

My guess is this guy was an athlete that got chubby over a year or two, so he still had a lot of lean mass to work with.

^^ This too.

Jeff92se

A few things:

1. Remember the pic on the left is considered obese if not MORBIDLY obese which leads to #2.
2. You can use excessive fat stores AS CALORIES and put SOME muscle mass on.
3. It's obvious he was training even on the left picture.
4. How do we know he didn't lean out, then bulk, then lean out again?

Does the site show a progressive timeline?

There's lots of factors that could play into this. Regardless he looks good.

We have to make some assumptions here. But why would someone have to be obese in order to gain muscle while at a calorie deficit? To me, I think only elite athletes or very low BF people truely could not gain while dieting. But that's a diff topic.

Jeff92se

My guess is this guy was an athlete that got chubby over a year or two, so he still had a lot of lean mass to work with.

Right. Question is "does he look like he gained".

joejccva71

A few things:

1. Remember the pic on the left is considered obese if not MORBIDLY obese which leads to #2.
2. You can use excessive fat stores AS CALORIES and put SOME muscle mass on.
3. It's obvious he was training even on the left picture.
4. How do we know he didn't lean out, then bulk, then lean out again?

Does the site show a progressive timeline?

There's lots of factors that could play into this. Regardless he looks good.

We have to make some assumptions here. But why would someone have to be obese in order to gain muscle while at a calorie deficit? To me, I think only elite athletes or very low BF people truely could not gain while dieting. But that's a diff topic.

Because you cannot gain new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. The calories have got to come from somewhere.

Unless you are brand spanking new to weight lifting, and even then it's minimal gains.

heybales

No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.

That isn't how it works.

Why must he "have built that muscle during his weight loss"?

It's not possible he had it before, under that fat, and kept it doing the same routine? As others have pointed out, you can see some muscle there already.

For all we know, he kept his exactly same strength training routine, and merely changed his diet, and with lack of skin hanging, must have taken awhile.

Jeff92se

A few things:

1. Remember the pic on the left is considered obese if not MORBIDLY obese which leads to #2.
2. You can use excessive fat stores AS CALORIES and put SOME muscle mass on.
3. It's obvious he was training even on the left picture.
4. How do we know he didn't lean out, then bulk, then lean out again?

Does the site show a progressive timeline?

There's lots of factors that could play into this. Regardless he looks good.

We have to make some assumptions here. But why would someone have to be obese in order to gain muscle while at a calorie deficit? To me, I think only elite athletes or very low BF people truely could not gain while dieting. But that's a diff topic.

Because you cannot gain new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. The calories have got to come from somewhere.

Unless you are brand spanking new to weight lifting.

If the calories have to come from somewhere and if an obese person has those calories to spare, why can't someone with less an an obese bodyfat % have fat to spare to gain muscle? (while on a calorie deficit)

I see the term "only if you are obese". What is obese? What bodyfat % do you draw the line at? Generally speaking, is it. 15%? 25%, 45%, 65%..other?