This person gain muscle or just lose weight?
Replies
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Because you cannot gain new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. The calories have got to come from somewhere.
Unless you are brand spanking new to weight lifting, and even then it's minimal gains.
That doesn't even make sense.
Of course you can gain muscle on calorie deficit. As long as you are eating enough of those calories as protein to still build muscle, it just means less fat and less carbs when and where you don't need them.
Every single study comparing weight loss between just diet or diet and exercise or exercise alone shows muscle mass gain while losing weight. Obviously calorie deficit state.0 -
I was going to use myself as an example but after reading this, I would fall into #2. I've trained before.
http://stronglifts.com/4-ways-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat/
But I'd still want to know the %bodyfat line for gain while Obese0 -
Because you cannot gain new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. The calories have got to come from somewhere.
Unless you are brand spanking new to weight lifting, and even then it's minimal gains.
That doesn't even make sense.
Of course you can gain muscle on calorie deficit. As long as you are eating enough of those calories as protein to still build muscle, it just means less fat and less carbs when and where you don't need them.
Every single study comparing weight loss between just diet or diet and exercise or exercise alone shows muscle mass gain while losing weight. Obviously calorie deficit state.0 -
He did just lean out. And his arms are smaller in the after pic. The muscle has always been there. Cool thread.
It's from some sensational weight loss site but it shows my point.
I'd thnk alot of people would think this person gained muscle. But to me, it looks like he just leaned out.
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Everyone HAS muscle under fat. How do you think we move around?No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.
That isn't how it works.
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Think about it. If you had to carry around an extra 50-100lbs a day, your muscles are getting a workout whether you see them or not.Most people would be amazed how much muscle they have under the fat, I know alot of obese people that have very strong biceps, calf muscles and glutes. Plus you can tone muscle but to build it you have to consume huge amount of calories and be lifting several hours a day to accumalate bulk...Anywho I perfer my men with natural muscle tone not bulk muscle.
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Because you cannot gain new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. The calories have got to come from somewhere.
Unless you are brand spanking new to weight lifting, and even then it's minimal gains.
That doesn't even make sense.
Of course you can gain muscle on calorie deficit. As long as you are eating enough of those calories as protein to still build muscle, it just means less fat and less carbs when and where you don't need them.
Every single study comparing weight loss between just diet or diet and exercise or exercise alone shows muscle mass gain while losing weight. Obviously calorie deficit state.
See its posts like this that end up getting me strikes.
Please do your research first before posting this garbage.
There are 3 ways to build muscle on a calorie deficit:
1. Using excessive fat stores as energy/calories to add some mass. (Minimal gains)
(And to answer Jeff's post, there isnt a determined bodyfat% because it depends on other factors such as height, genetics, etc. People are considered morbidly obese after 28% bodyfat or so I presume..atleast for men.)
2. If you are brand new to lifting or you are reintroduced to lifting, then you can obtain MINIMAL gains.
3. Steroids
Other than those three ways, you cannot build new muscle tissue on a calorie deficit. It's just not possible. Lyle Mcdonald, Alan Aragon, Martin Berkhan will all back this up. New tissue needs energy to grow, energy is calories, and the calories have got to come from somewhere. You still have to consume enough protein in ratio for your LBM but you need to eat the calories in excess of what you burn (TDEE).0 -
This would be me.:laugh:Many bodybuilders don't look all that impressive until they're doing their cutting phase (if they bulk the traditional way).
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Everyone HAS muscle under fat. How do you think we move around?No. You don't just lose weight and there's muscle there.
He will have built that muscle during his weight loss. It wasn't just 'there' under a layer of fat.
That isn't how it works.
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But not that level of muscle surely?
Otherwise everyone over weight would shed and see these awesome abs.
Clearly he's worked for his muscles, they didn't just magically appear when he cut his weight.0 -
Ever seen a 15 year old with abs? Why? Because of low body fat and not because he worked out and trained super seriously.But not that level of muscle surely?
Otherwise everyone over weight would shed and see these awesome abs.
Clearly he's worked for his muscles, they didn't just magically appear when he cut his weight.
Get body fat low enough and you'll see abs.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
So did he have a tummy tuck too? Look at the after on the belly button it looks like it's a little tight. Really he would have loose skin so where did it go?
its called airbrushing0 -
So did he have a tummy tuck too? Look at the after on the belly button it looks like it's a little tight. Really he would have loose skin so where did it go?
its called airbrushing
^^^^^Agree0 -
x2.:laugh:So did he have a tummy tuck too? Look at the after on the belly button it looks like it's a little tight. Really he would have loose skin so where did it go?
its called airbrushing
^^^^^Agree0 -
Why would necessarily be 28% give or take?
I can see how being on a deficit at 5% BF would hinder things. I also see how being 30% plus would help. But I don't see why someone at let's say 20% (male) wouldn't still gain. Just not as fast or efficently as someone purposely trying to bulk with exess calories/bodyfat.0 -
Shake weight......0
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After dropping the weight I did, I ended up loosing most of my strenght and since I could see muscle under 400 lbs of flab I knew I lost muscle. Looks like the guy dropped a lot of weight and in the proccess was in the gym lifting, its hard to lose that much weight and maintain muscle mass unless you lose it really slow, but who wants to do that.0
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Why would necessarily be 28% give or take?
I can see how being on a deficit at 5% BF would hinder things. I also see how being 30% plus would help. But I don't see why someone at let's say 20% (male) wouldn't still gain. Just not as fast or efficently as someone purposely trying to bulk with exess calories/bodyfat.
The gains at 20% are probably so minimal that you wouldn't see that much of an increase in LBM to take much notice. The point is that the calories/energy that you obtain from excess fat stores isn't a nominal way to build muscle long term. The point is that alot of folks seem to be failing to grasp is that in order to truely gain lean mass and build is to eat food in excess of what you burn. Just eating protein by itself isnt enough to build new tissue.0 -
Why would necessarily be 28% give or take?
I can see how being on a deficit at 5% BF would hinder things. I also see how being 30% plus would help. But I don't see why someone at let's say 20% (male) wouldn't still gain. Just not as fast or efficently as someone purposely trying to bulk with exess calories/bodyfat.
The gains at 20% are probably so minimal that you wouldn't see that much of an increase in LBM to take much notice. The point is that the calories/energy that you obtain from excess fat stores isn't a nominal way to build muscle long term. The point is that alot of folks seem to be failing to grasp is that in order to truely gain lean mass and build is to eat food in excess of what you burn. Just eating protein by itself isnt enough to build new tissue.
Understood. but you implied that someone obese at 28%+ would be able to get gains (assume signficant enough to mention it possible). That's only a 8% difference from which you state it's possible to a point where you state the gains would be almost to small to mention.0 -
So those saying the muscle is already there under all the fat, suppose he just did cardio, would he see that muscle once he shed the fat?
Why wouldnt he? Why doesnt it work that way? Are you telling me because I look more or less like him on the heavier side that I have no muscle under there? This makes no sense, educate me.......Whats not to say he did training to maintain the muscles he already had while losing the fat?0 -
I'm wondering if this is one of those reversed pictures. As in the first picture was taken after the second one.
It would seem to be a prime candidate for that kind of trickery.0 -
I'm wondering if this is one of those reversed pictures. As in the first picture was taken after the second one.
It would seem to be a prime candidate for that kind of trickery.
There's that too. We have to make a host of assumptions here to have the conversation.0 -
Why would necessarily be 28% give or take?
I can see how being on a deficit at 5% BF would hinder things. I also see how being 30% plus would help. But I don't see why someone at let's say 20% (male) wouldn't still gain. Just not as fast or efficently as someone purposely trying to bulk with exess calories/bodyfat.
The gains at 20% are probably so minimal that you wouldn't see that much of an increase in LBM to take much notice. The point is that the calories/energy that you obtain from excess fat stores isn't a nominal way to build muscle long term. The point is that alot of folks seem to be failing to grasp is that in order to truely gain lean mass and build is to eat food in excess of what you burn. Just eating protein by itself isnt enough to build new tissue.
Understood. but you implied that someone obese at 28%+ would be able to get gains (assume signficant enough to mention it possible). That's only a 8% difference from which you state it's possible to a point where you state the gains would be almost to small to mention.
Jeff where are you trying to go with this exactly? It really doesn't matter whether I think someone obese is 28+% bodyfat or whether it's 27%, 42% or 631%. It doesn't matter.
The point is: You cannot gain muscle at an ACCEPTABLE rate unless you eat at a calorie surplus. Period. End of story.
If I REALLY have to go dig up Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon and Martin Berkhan's articles..I will, but I don't really have the time right now. I'd rather eat. :P0 -
Well your definitions keep changing.
From you "can't" to you have to be obese at 28%+ to gain at a calorie deficit to at 20% the gains would be minimal. Why is only a 8% difference seperating being able to gain and gains be too minimal to mention?
I asked for a % to clarify the context. At 28% you seem to imply it's possible(so does other sites so I don't content this). But at 20% gains are almost no possible. That's a 8% spread. I'm not debating your definition of Obese. I'm asking why a 8% difference seems to be the difference inbetween gaining and almost not gaining at all.0 -
This would be me.:laugh:Many bodybuilders don't look all that impressive until they're doing their cutting phase (if they bulk the traditional way).
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Who else wants to see a picture of Niner in full on bulk phase?!0 -
Well your definitions keep changing.
From you "can't" to you have to be obese at 28%+ to gain at a calorie deficit to at 20% the gains would be minimal. Why is only a 8% difference seperating being able to gain and gains be too minimal to mention?
I asked for a % to clarify the context. At 28% you seem to imply it's possible(so does other sites so I don't content this). But at 20% gains are almost no possible. That's a 8% spread. I'm not debating your definition of Obese. I'm asking why a 8% difference seems to be the difference inbetween gaining and almost not gaining at all.
Jeff an 8% difference in bf is HUGE. Bodyfat% from 28% to 20% is huge, and 20% to 12% is even more of a big deal. At 12% you practically have ab defintion. Also the higher your bf% the easier it is to lose. The lower it is, the harder. It's VERY difficult to go from let's say 14-15% down to 9-10% and takes a constant calorie deficit.
You will NOT build muscle on a calorie deficit at that low of a bf%. You might even LOSE some muscle.
Do you need further explanation?
Edit: And 8% is no magic number. I was simply stating that someone could be considered obese at 28% bf.0 -
I understand how to get down to those bf levels. I touches on this a bit already0
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I understand how to get down to those bf levels. I touches on this a bit already
So without further due, can I consider this discussion closed and direct you to read more from Lyle, Alan, and Martin to answer your questions?0 -
he was doing tae bo0
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he was doing tae bo
*snickers*
I am on MFP too much -.-0 -
I understand how to get down to those bf levels. I touches on this a bit already
So without further due, can I consider this discussion closed and direct you to read more from Lyle, Alan, and Martin to answer your questions?
Do they mention specific percents?0
This discussion has been closed.
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