Low Calories, or Low Carbs? What is better.....

amiller7x7

It still seems that the best advice I have heard (and which I can still recall...which is another problem) is Michael Pollan's guidance on modern nutrition theory which he says (perhaps a little tongue in cheek) is:
Eat Food
Not too much
Mostly Plants

His review article from 2007 New York Times Magazine (http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/unhappy-meals/ ) is a pretty good place to get an idea of his thinking and what those terms mean. As is usual with these posts, everyone is enough different that "your mileage may vary", ergo caveat emptor.

bcattoes

If by better, you mean which will help more with weight loss, then it would be calories if you have no disorders or diseases causing problems with grains. If you have any type of disease the rules may be different for you.

mrscarrey

http://garytaubes.com/lectures-2/

If you wanted to get a preview of his message, I suggest going to his website and watching his lectures for free via the above link. Also, a more in-depth, highly scientific book with tons of references is his first book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which was his original work on this topic. Basically he went through all the science that was already there and did the research for himself vs just listening to the conventional wisdom (that continues to make us all sick) and explains why WHAT we eat is so much more important than the concept of calories in, calories out (does your body react the same to 200 calories of bread vs 200 cal of fat? Nope, and this book breaks down why and how one may be helping to make you healthy vs why one may be helping to make you sick, diabetic and overweight).

Even if you watch or read and don't agree with it, at least you will have taken the time to judge for yourself vs assuming anyone else is right or wrong.

Acg67

http://garytaubes.com/lectures-2/

If you wanted to get a preview of his message, I suggest going to his website and watching his lectures for free via the above link. Also, a more in-depth, highly scientific book with tons of references is his first book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which was his original work on this topic. Basically he went through all the science that was already there and did the research for himself vs just listening to the conventional wisdom (that continues to make us all sick) and explains why WHAT we eat is so much more important than the concept of calories in, calories out (does your body react the same to 200 calories of bread vs 200 cal of fat? Nope, and this book breaks down why and how one may be helping to make you healthy vs why one may be helping to make you sick, diabetic and overweight).

Even if you watch or read and don't agree with it, at least you will have taken the time to judge for yourself vs assuming anyone else is right or wrong.

and when he went through all the science he managed to disregard almost all the studies that went against his insulin hypothesis of obesity.

for instance did you know your body can store fat without the presence of insulin

rachmaree

I disagree with the above posts saying watching calories is better for a multitude of reasons. I suggest reading the book "Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It" by science journalist Gary Taubes to understand why. Amazing book that really opened my eyes and has helped me to lose 47 pounds in 6 months so far.

^ only read the above book if you want your head to be filled with nonsense (other then the section on the lipid hypothesis)

whats your advice....? curious!

make sure you are getting adequate protein and fat each day (a minimum of approx 1g of protein per lb of lbm and .35-.45g of fat per lb of bodyweight) then fill in the rest of your remaining cals how you please. focus should be on nutrient dense whole foods, but no reason you can't fit treats into your everyday diet

Absolutely agree with acg

apriltrainer

For initial weight loss, dropping the carbs without drastically reducing my caloric intake helped me drop my baby wt. I was 160 something in June, Now 114 give or take a few lbs.

So that was GREAT! I became a believer in low carb. But man...as I started losing more than what I was prepregnancy...it got harder and low carb didn't work as well. I would check my bodyfat and it seemed that to get past a sticking point I also had to combine low calorie with the low carb.


I've fallen off the low carb wagon though..and need to get back on.

Even though I have fallen off..I did get good benefits besides the weight loss. My adult acne cleared up which I have suffered with since I was 16. Also chronic teeth pain I have had for the past 2 years completely disappered.

I think a person just has to find what is right for their body.

I have a friend who is vegan. That works for her.

It doesn't work for me.

when I started eating mainly meat and eggs..wow. My skin just cleared up and my tooth pain disappeared..

I think I was meant to eat this way.

I just have to get a handle on only eating part of the cow now, not the whole darn thing!

bcattoes

http://garytaubes.com/lectures-2/

If you wanted to get a preview of his message, I suggest going to his website and watching his lectures for free via the above link. Also, a more in-depth, highly scientific book with tons of references is his first book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which was his original work on this topic. Basically he went through all the science that was already there and did the research for himself vs just listening to the conventional wisdom (that continues to make us all sick) and explains why WHAT we eat is so much more important than the concept of calories in, calories out (does your body react the same to 200 calories of bread vs 200 cal of fat? Nope, and this book breaks down why and how one may be helping to make you healthy vs why one may be helping to make you sick, diabetic and overweight).

Even if you watch or read and don't agree with it, at least you will have taken the time to judge for yourself vs assuming anyone else is right or wrong.

What advantage do you think his views have over those of medical and nutrition scientists? Do you think that the professionals at medical univeristies and hospitals who conduct nutrition studies and make recommendations are unaware of how our bodies handle consumption of carbs, protein and fat?

carolann_22

I have been on lower calorie diets and low carb / low calorie diets, and the scale moves a LOT more when I'm on the low carb one, even if the calorie deficits are the same. I am also more satisfied on a low carb diet, and not hungry all the time. I lost 136 pounds on a low carb diet after college and kept it off for 6 years until the doctor told me I had to eat carbs when I got pregnant.

I also have PCOS, and Insulin Resistance, so this is why lower carb diets have better results for me. I don't think that low carb diets are the answer for everyone, but if most of the weight is around your middle you might give it a try and see how you like it. I'm doing it now and have lost 11 pounds in two weeks (I know at least half of that is water) but I'm also working out and creating a big calorie deficit each day, I'm not eating my weight in bacon I eat a lot more veggies on a low carb diet than I did when I was on WW, and do not feel tired or unenergized (but I do eat nuts)

Marll

http://garytaubes.com/lectures-2/

If you wanted to get a preview of his message, I suggest going to his website and watching his lectures for free via the above link. Also, a more in-depth, highly scientific book with tons of references is his first book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which was his original work on this topic. Basically he went through all the science that was already there and did the research for himself vs just listening to the conventional wisdom (that continues to make us all sick) and explains why WHAT we eat is so much more important than the concept of calories in, calories out (does your body react the same to 200 calories of bread vs 200 cal of fat? Nope, and this book breaks down why and how one may be helping to make you healthy vs why one may be helping to make you sick, diabetic and overweight).

Even if you watch or read and don't agree with it, at least you will have taken the time to judge for yourself vs assuming anyone else is right or wrong.

What advantage do you think his views have over those of medical and nutrition scientists? Do you think that the professionals at medical univeristies and hospitals who conduct nutrition studies and make recommendations are unaware of how our bodies handle consumption of carbs, protein and fat?

I would say the advantage could be that he's not necessarily on the FDA/ConAgra payroll and has to make stuff up to keep his research department funded.

Grains are big business and highly pushed and subsidised in the US, and people that go against that are demonized to the extremem by these groups. The media has also been used to demonize low carb and has twisted the view of the diet quite a bit. For example I have told a co-worker in the past the way I've been eating, since they are very curious about my weight loss progress. Below is a typical (and true reaction)

Co-Worker:How are you loosing your weight?
Me: Diet and exercise, mostly diet though, that seems to make the most difference.
Co-Worker: Oh really? So what are you eating?
Me: Well I switched to mostly whole natural foods, no processed junk, no sugar, lots of vegtables and meat, fruit occasionally.
Co-Worker: Oh that's great to be eating natural, so you feel better too I bet!
Me: Yeah, my body really responds well to a low carb diet, I feel better than I have in years.
Co-Worker: Low Carb?! You know that'll kill you right?! It's horrible for you....

Insert the buzzword "low-carb" and you get these kinds of reacations, but nodoby will typically dispute the idea of eating less processed crap, less sugar, more vegtables than you ever have and good quality cuts of meat...

Marll

For initial weight loss, dropping the carbs without drastically reducing my caloric intake helped me drop my baby wt. I was 160 something in June, Now 114 give or take a few lbs.

So that was GREAT! I became a believer in low carb. But man...as I started losing more than what I was prepregnancy...it got harder and low carb didn't work as well. I would check my bodyfat and it seemed that to get past a sticking point I also had to combine low calorie with the low carb.


I've fallen off the low carb wagon though..and need to get back on.

Even though I have fallen off..I did get good benefits besides the weight loss. My adult acne cleared up which I have suffered with since I was 16. Also chronic teeth pain I have had for the past 2 years completely disappered.

I think a person just has to find what is right for their body.

I have a friend who is vegan. That works for her.

It doesn't work for me.

when I started eating mainly meat and eggs..wow. My skin just cleared up and my tooth pain disappeared..

I think I was meant to eat this way.

I just have to get a handle on only eating part of the cow now, not the whole darn thing!

It's great how low carb has helped with other issues that you were having as well too huh? I know a few people right now that have had similar issues that have cleared up as well

Adult Acne
Painful Teeth
Painful Joints
Sinus Congestion
Stomach distress

Maybe it's just me, but by cutting grains and sugar if these things can be cleared up, what's supposed to be so bad about it?

bcattoes

http://garytaubes.com/lectures-2/

If you wanted to get a preview of his message, I suggest going to his website and watching his lectures for free via the above link. Also, a more in-depth, highly scientific book with tons of references is his first book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which was his original work on this topic. Basically he went through all the science that was already there and did the research for himself vs just listening to the conventional wisdom (that continues to make us all sick) and explains why WHAT we eat is so much more important than the concept of calories in, calories out (does your body react the same to 200 calories of bread vs 200 cal of fat? Nope, and this book breaks down why and how one may be helping to make you healthy vs why one may be helping to make you sick, diabetic and overweight).

Even if you watch or read and don't agree with it, at least you will have taken the time to judge for yourself vs assuming anyone else is right or wrong.

What advantage do you think his views have over those of medical and nutrition scientists? Do you think that the professionals at medical univeristies and hospitals who conduct nutrition studies and make recommendations are unaware of how our bodies handle consumption of carbs, protein and fat?

I would say the advantage could be that he's not necessarily on the FDA/ConAgra payroll and has to make stuff up to keep his research department funded.

Grains are big business and highly pushed and subsidised in the US, and people that go against that are demonized to the extremem by these groups. The media has also been used to demonize low carb and has twisted the view of the diet quite a bit. For example I have told a co-worker in the past the way I've been eating, since they are very curious about my weight loss progress. Below is a typical (and true reaction)

What medical universities or hospitals demonize low carb diets? And what research did the gentleman you mention read through to make his assumptions, if not the research done at these places? If that research is tainted by the govt. then wouldn't that also make his findings tainted? Where did he get the money for his research that you mention?

fteale

Low carb is an effective way for obese people to drop the weight fast. It is a rubbish way to live life as a person of healthy or slightly low weight. You need energy and carbs are the most efficient form. There's a reason the vast majority of scientifically backed sports recovery drinks are 3/4 carbs to 1/4 protein in composition.

psuLemon

Unless you have an intolerance to carbs, like those with pcos, then low carb is unnecessary. Many of us eat 200 g+ of carbs a day and lose weight and body fat. Its those that go from eating white carbs and candy to low carb that think low carb is necassary.necessary.

funkycamper

The media has also been used to demonize low carb and has twisted the view of the diet quite a bit. For example I have told a co-worker in the past the way I've been eating, since they are very curious about my weight loss progress. Below is a typical (and true reaction)

Co-Worker:How are you loosing your weight?
Me: Diet and exercise, mostly diet though, that seems to make the most difference.
Co-Worker: Oh really? So what are you eating?
Me: Well I switched to mostly whole natural foods, no processed junk, no sugar, lots of vegtables and meat, fruit occasionally.
Co-Worker: Oh that's great to be eating natural, so you feel better too I bet!
Me: Yeah, my body really responds well to a low carb diet, I feel better than I have in years.
Co-Worker: Low Carb?! You know that'll kill you right?! It's horrible for you....

Insert the buzzword "low-carb" and you get these kinds of reacations, but nodoby will typically dispute the idea of eating less processed crap, less sugar, more vegtables than you ever have and good quality cuts of meat...

^This!^ So true, great that you're eating less processed junk. Oh, no, it's low-carb. Well, isn't most processed junk full of carbs? It's so confusing. Anyway, thanks for the laugh, it cracked me up.

---

To the OP:

Quite frankly, both low-carb and anti-low-carb zealots drive me a bit crazy as we are all different and there is always a middle-ground. So I think we all have to experiment and find out what works the best for us. I'll detail below what I do and how I feel just to give the OP some food-for-thought but I do want to emphasize that what works for me might not work for you. It works for me because I'm insulin resistant so someone who does not have this issue may be successful on higher carbs.

For me, I eat moderately low-carb combined with watching my calories. I try to keep my carbs to about 80grams/day but will occasionally go over without experiencing any real problems as long as I don't go over all the time.

If I eat too many carbs on a regular basis (100grams plus/day):
* get sleepy, sluggish, and need an afternoon or early evening nap
* lose energy for exercise, not only is it harder to get out the door to exercise but I also have diminished performance while exercising
* get constipated, bloated, and retain too much water to the point where my shoes will get tight
* headaches
* mood swings which increases my feelings of depression to the point where I need anti-depressant medication
* get brain-fog, forgetful, more easily confused while reading or taking part in complex discussions
* have strange aches and pains, particularly in my joints, and itchy skin
* have a hard time losing weight as my feelings of hunger increase dramatically making it harder to feel satisfied on a calorie deficit

If I keep my carbs around 80-100 grams/day:
* never need a nap and sleep less hours at night but still wake up feeling rested
* am energetic all day and have increased performance during exercise sessions
* great regularity with the bowels, don't retain water, and don't feel bloated even if I've splurged on a big meal
* rarely have a headache
* stable moods, no more depression and can go off anti-depressants
* clear-headed, improved memory, and able to do more complex thinking without feeling confused
* the only aches I might get are from straining muscles during intense exercise so no strange pains in joints and no itchy skin
* lose weight slowly but steadily
* rarely feel hungry and find it easy to feel satiated on 5-6 small meals daily although I do have to remind myself to eat quite often

Personally, I think this totally debunks the claim that more carbohydrates are needed for energy among other claims.

I lost 40# doing low-carb and limited exercise (just walking) over 5 years ago and have kept it off even though I started eating higher carbs. In fact, I'm one of the few people in this country that qualifies to be included in the National Weight Loss Registry for having kept a more than 30# weight loss off for over 5 years. So, no, you don't necessarily gain all the weight back when you go off a low-carb diet like some people claim. Of course, you can gain weight back if you go off of any weight loss eating plan but it's not automatic.

The reason why my weight loss stopped was due to a serious back injury that left me virtually immobilized for about a year and then another year to just learn to walk and move normal again. It took another two years after that to get my back strong enough to be able to do any exercise more intense than walking. I couldn't even run because of jarring of the spine, ride a bike due to not being able to lean over the handle-bars (and I have upright handle-bars), and even swimming bothered me for quite awhile. Anyway, now that I am able to exercise intensely again, I am working on the rest of the weight.

Because I'm exercising more intensely I can eat a bit higher-carb than I could during my previous low-carb weight loss. I don't have to. I feel just fine and am energetic, able to exercise intensely, and have all the other positive feelings, both physical and mental, that I had when eating lower carb. However, I happen to like a slice of whole-grain bread a few times a week. Or a small serving of rice on other days. Whatever. So I've experimented until I've found a carb level that works for me, allows me a little bit more variety, yet doesn't trigger any of the negative feelings, both physical and mental, I posted above.

I generally zig-zag my calories a bit to allow for a splurge meal or two on the weekends. These are controlled splurges meaning that I don't pig out but I do eat what I what. It's more about portion control. So, I might have pizza and cheesy bread. Or lasagna. Or cake and ice cream. Whatever. Higher carb treats that I do enjoy eating once in awhile. When I limit this to only once or twice a week AND keep the portions relatively small, i.e. maybe 2 slices of pizza, not half the pie, and fill up on vegetables or protein if I'm still hungry, I still lose just fine.

However, if I overdid it, I will definitely get some of those negative feelings I posted. Usually the first negative thing I notice is random aches, especially throbbing joints, and maybe a very low-grade headache. If I do some exercise shortly after eating this, I might be able to negate some of this bad side-effects but usually not enough to make them go away. The only way they will go away is if I plan an intense workout a couple hours after splurging...because I just can't exercise intensely on a fuller stomach.

Anyway, that's me. You're you. I know some people who are entirely the opposite of what I am. I mean, they feel a lot of the negative things I feel when they don't eat enough carbs that I feel when I eat too many. And better when they eat more while I feel worse.

The only way to know for sure is to experiment, keep a diary tracking more than just your food intake and your weight. Write down how you feel physically, emotionally, and note any strange feelings. After doing this for awhile, go back through your diary and see if you can spot a trend. Find out what works best for you and do it.

It's also good to ensure that your eating plan not only helps you lose the weight you want to lose while giving you the nutrition you need to be energetic, but that it also doesn't have hidden negative effects. So I would suggest getting a good blood panel work-up done to see where your LDL and HDL cholesterol levels, triglycerides, blood sugar levels, etc., are and then having another done no longer than a year after finding your preferred eating plan. If you have problems from it, you want to know so that you can make adjustments.

Just don't listen to the zealots from either side. I used to be a low-carb zealot myself but I now see that we're not all alike so I might suggest trying low-carb to someone who is struggling but I don't believe it's the only way.

ALH1981

for me its about carbs. I gain weight the minute i touch them.

Id rather eat high calorific foods such as avacado, nuts, salmon oils than any type of starchy carb.

Having said that, i do allow myself rice noodles.

might you be confusing water retention with fat gain?

maybe ... i don know - i do feel heavier (and the scales agree) if i indulge in carbs ... i don't know, they just don't work for my body.... Im celiac, so have to have limited carbs (unless gluten free) anyway but i know i just feel bloated and gross when i eat them.

My body responds well to veges, protein even simple fats like avocado oils etc but carbs ... nope!

Sidesteal

. I suggest reading the book "Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It" by science journalist Gary Taubes to understand why. Amazing book that really opened my eyes and has helped me to lose 47 pounds in 6 months so far.

In my personal opinion, the above book will provide you with a lot of misinformation about insulin that has been readily disproven by science.

ilookthetype

for me its about carbs. I gain weight the minute i touch them.

Id rather eat high calorific foods such as avacado, nuts, salmon oils than any type of starchy carb.

Having said that, i do allow myself rice noodles.

might you be confusing water retention with fat gain?

Or possibly a gluten intolerance?

tigersword

http://garytaubes.com/lectures-2/

If you wanted to get a preview of his message, I suggest going to his website and watching his lectures for free via the above link. Also, a more in-depth, highly scientific book with tons of references is his first book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" which was his original work on this topic. Basically he went through all the science that was already there and did the research for himself vs just listening to the conventional wisdom (that continues to make us all sick) and explains why WHAT we eat is so much more important than the concept of calories in, calories out (does your body react the same to 200 calories of bread vs 200 cal of fat? Nope, and this book breaks down why and how one may be helping to make you healthy vs why one may be helping to make you sick, diabetic and overweight).

Even if you watch or read and don't agree with it, at least you will have taken the time to judge for yourself vs assuming anyone else is right or wrong.

Again, Gary Taubes has no education in nutrition at all. He's just a writer who read studies and wrote his own interpretation of them, with absolutely no training or education in the field to back them up. It's really no different than any random person on this forum reading a bunch of studies and talking about them. I've read a lot of the studies that Taubes has looked at, my conclusions are different. I've also read studies that he ignored. Why should you believe him over me? We both have the exact same level of formal education in nutrition.

Remember, Taubes has a JOURNALISM degree. That means he is trained to write in a way to make what he says seem true, regardless of the actual facts. That's what journalists do, they spin things. That's their job.

ahamm002

Low calories versus low carb is a bad way to look at things IMHO. However, the most important thing for long term weight loss, and maintenance of that weight loss, is probably food choices. That doesnt' necessarily mean eating super low carb, but it means focusing on whole foods, minimizing sugar/refined carbs/processed foods, and making sure to get plenty of protein and veggies with most meals.

Just changing to the types of foods one eats is often enough for an obese indivdual to develop a caloric defecit and lose a considerable amount of weight without actively counting calories.

Athijade

My mom lost weight with a Low Carb diet... that said, I am starting to think it was more because she was making better food choices all around then because they were low carb. When you do any sort of "diet", you are really looking at what you are eating and making different, healthier choices when you were before. As such, you lose weight!

I have done low carb in the past and am now just watching calories (and eating better as a whole). I have lost the SAME amount of weight in the same amount of time. The biggest difference? I think I can actually keep doing what I am doing now!