Low Calories, or Low Carbs? What is better.....

GinNouveau

Now that I'm low carb, this does not happen to me. I LOVE meat. But I eat what I need and I'm satisfied. I comfortably eat 2000-2500 calories a day, whereas I used to eat 3500-4000 when training for a marathon, even on days when I was not even running or doing short runs.

So to summarize my point, I find it difficult to manage portions while eating a high carb diet. When adding exercise to the mix, I find it exceedingly difficult, and when I'm training for a marathon, I lose absolute control of my portions. Its like my body wants to slowly gain weight, and there's nothing I can do about it except remove the offending foods.

I'm glad you found what works best for you. You were miserable, and now you aren't. That's a success.

quacken58

I also think making your body wonder what you are doing helps loose weight too. Such as low carb one day, some carb the next. I can be doing good on a 1,000 cal diet for a couple of days and then want a Backyard burger on a wheat bun and the next day I will have lost a pound. I do weight every day and that way I know if there was something I ate the day before, I shouldn't have.

Acg67

So can you explain to me why people who go on Atkins because they consume too many calories and obviously have a problem regulating their intake can suddenly allow their body to naturally regulate their intake properly simply by removing carbohydrates if it has nothing to do with the concentrations of fat, protein, or carbs in the diet?

if i had to guess it'd be because when lowering carbs, protein uptake is generally increased and protein is more satiating? so it's not the removal of cho but the increase of protein that leads to this

chevy88grl

So can you explain to me why people who go on Atkins because they consume too many calories and obviously have a problem regulating their intake can suddenly allow their body to naturally regulate their intake properly simply by removing carbohydrates if it has nothing to do with the concentrations of fat, protein, or carbs in the diet?

they get tired of eating meat? lol jk

That's a valid point, but let me tell you why I don't buy it. While training for a marathon, on a given weekday I would run maybe 8 miles on the treadmill after dinner. So at dinner I would eat 3-4 slices of pizza, then go to the gym about 2 hours later. I'd get home after the run, and would get the worst food craving known to man. I would eat another 3-4 slices of pizza (if available), and then want more food! I'd have to sit there and fight myself until I went to bed. So I just ate 6-8 slices of pizza that night, completely negating the entire fat loss effect of my 8 mile run, and even ending up on a calorie surplus.

Now that I'm low carb, this does not happen to me. I LOVE meat. But I eat what I need and I'm satisfied. I comfortably eat 2000-2500 calories a day, whereas I used to eat 3500-4000 when training for a marathon, even on days when I was not even running or doing short runs.

So to summarize my point, I find it difficult to manage portions while eating a high carb diet. When adding exercise to the mix, I find it exceedingly difficult, and when I'm training for a marathon, I lose absolute control of my portions. Its like my body wants to slowly gain weight, and there's nothing I can do about it except remove the offending foods.

Once again - I will say congrats on finding what works for YOU. But, once again - I will say that what works for one person, may or may not work for another.

I tried low carb. I did everything you're supposed to do while following a low carb lifestyle. I was miserable. I was tired. I had zero energy to do basic household chores, let alone any kind of real exercising. I gained weight - I followed a low carb lifestyle for a few months and gained over 10lbs while doing it. I was just plain miserable. I added carbs back in and within a short time (about 10 days) I lost the weight I had gained and felt so much better. I had energy again, I wasn't struggling to keep my eyes open even after getting 8 hours of sleep at night. I felt human again.

Low carb doesn't work for everyone. Regardless of what this study or that study says - it isn't something that everyone can do. If you've found it works for you - fabulous! But, most people find it a bit annoying when someone is spending so much time trying to convince everyone else that THEIR way is the BEST way. There are quite a few people in this thread who've lost a significant amount of weight - that alone shows that they know their body, they understand their body and they are successful with their weight loss journey. Even if they aren't doing it YOUR way - they have still found success.

I've lost 60lbs and I have kept it off for over a year now - I've done this by controlling my portion sizes, counting my calories and yes, working out. I don't work out like a maniac to maintain this loss - I've actually been out of the gym since Halloween to give my body a chance to heal from an injury and a lung illness. I'm still maintaining in my "normal" range while not working out.



Do what works for you. Let others do what works for them. No one is wrong here and no one is right - if it is working for YOU, then it is right for YOU. If it isn't working for you, then it isn't right for you. Plain and simple. No one's way is better than someone else's way.

07JKGirl

Counting calories the best way because you have to burn more than you take in to lose weight. That being said, where those calories comes from does play a part, but you have to figure out what works best for your body. I don't do low carb, just smart carb. No white stuff, be it flour, sugar or potatoes.

grinch031

haha, i just had to jump in on this. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie in terms of weight loss. Everything you eat, if you eat too much of it will turn in to fat in the body. Fat is used to generate ATP. ATP runs the body. You eat 500 extra calories of protein, what happens if glycogen stores are full? gets converted to fat. Eating 500 calories extra carbs and glycogen stores are full, what happens? it gets converted to fat. This fat is used to create ATP,

The kreb cycle uses fat and glucose to make pyruvate, What happens if you don't have much glucose?(ketosis) you only burn a little bit of fat, this is what produces ketones. Ketones only suggest you're burning a little bit of fat, or burning fat half way.


I already discussed what happens when you eat too much of a macro, when glycogen stores are full, but what happens if they are low and you eat those 500 calories. The energy used to replace glycogen comes from ATP which comes from fat.

The body is a delicate balance, you can't get more energy out of the body than what it has, you can't get out less energy than what it has. In the end calories are what matter.

No matter what issues you have, diabetic issues, or hormonal issues, doens't matter, still boils down to how many calories you use up per day.

And nobody knows how many calories each of these different processes requires to do its job. The fact that people claim to know exactly how many calories they burn doing various activities is a fallacy. There very well could be a metabolic advantage to the processes carried out when eating mostly fat and protein verses eating mostly carbs. That is why a calorie is not just a calorie. People say that the carbohydrate hypothesis is too simplistic but I say the calorie is a calorie hypothesis is also too simplistic.

sewedo1

Keep it all in balance and you will see a loss.

grinch031

haha, i just had to jump in on this. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie in terms of weight loss. Everything you eat, if you eat too much of it will turn in to fat in the body. Fat is used to generate ATP. ATP runs the body. You eat 500 extra calories of protein, what happens if glycogen stores are full? gets converted to fat. Eating 500 calories extra carbs and glycogen stores are full, what happens? it gets converted to fat. This fat is used to create ATP,

The kreb cycle uses fat and glucose to make pyruvate, What happens if you don't have much glucose?(ketosis) you only burn a little bit of fat, this is what produces ketones. Ketones only suggest you're burning a little bit of fat, or burning fat half way.


I already discussed what happens when you eat too much of a macro, when glycogen stores are full, but what happens if they are low and you eat those 500 calories. The energy used to replace glycogen comes from ATP which comes from fat.

The body is a delicate balance, you can't get more energy out of the body than what it has, you can't get out less energy than what it has. In the end calories are what matter.

No matter what issues you have, diabetic issues, or hormonal issues, doens't matter, still boils down to how many calories you use up per day.

And nobody knows how many calories each of these different processes requires to do its job. The fact that people claim to know exactly how many calories they burn doing various activities is a fallacy. There very well could be a metabolic advantage to the processes carried out when eating mostly fat and protein verses eating mostly carbs. That is why a calorie is not just a calorie. People say that the carbohydrate hypothesis is too simplistic but I say the calorie is a calorie hypothesis is also too simplistic.

fats 90%
carbs 80%
protein 70%.

that's how much energy is used to digest each macro. They can tell by oxygen consumption. How much oxygen is expelled per exhalation. this will determine how much oxygen the body has used. They can detemrine by the bonds broken or made. It takes energy ot make or break bonds. If you want to get in to knit picking... then you're right " 0.0000001 calories is different from 0.00000001

But even if you can measure precisely, the measurements will differ greatly from person to person. Besides, most people are never measured anyways and just go by estimates.

grinch031

haha, i just had to jump in on this. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie in terms of weight loss. Everything you eat, if you eat too much of it will turn in to fat in the body. Fat is used to generate ATP. ATP runs the body. You eat 500 extra calories of protein, what happens if glycogen stores are full? gets converted to fat. Eating 500 calories extra carbs and glycogen stores are full, what happens? it gets converted to fat. This fat is used to create ATP,

The kreb cycle uses fat and glucose to make pyruvate, What happens if you don't have much glucose?(ketosis) you only burn a little bit of fat, this is what produces ketones. Ketones only suggest you're burning a little bit of fat, or burning fat half way.


I already discussed what happens when you eat too much of a macro, when glycogen stores are full, but what happens if they are low and you eat those 500 calories. The energy used to replace glycogen comes from ATP which comes from fat.

The body is a delicate balance, you can't get more energy out of the body than what it has, you can't get out less energy than what it has. In the end calories are what matter.

No matter what issues you have, diabetic issues, or hormonal issues, doens't matter, still boils down to how many calories you use up per day.

And nobody knows how many calories each of these different processes requires to do its job. The fact that people claim to know exactly how many calories they burn doing various activities is a fallacy. There very well could be a metabolic advantage to the processes carried out when eating mostly fat and protein verses eating mostly carbs. That is why a calorie is not just a calorie. People say that the carbohydrate hypothesis is too simplistic but I say the calorie is a calorie hypothesis is also too simplistic.

fats 90%
carbs 80%
protein 70%.

that's how much energy is used to digest each macro. They can tell by oxygen consumption. How much oxygen is expelled per exhalation. this will determine how much oxygen the body has used. They can detemrine by the bonds broken or made. It takes energy ot make or break bonds. If you want to get in to knit picking... then you're right " 0.0000001 calories is different from 0.00000001

But even if you can measure precisely, the measurements will differ greatly from person to person. Besides, most people are never measured anyways and just go by estimates.

We can measure precisely, yeah most people have different metabolic speeds. Either way, it still boils down to energy. A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Sure some people might have hormonal issues, some have less muscle mass, some people are just weird, but lets say someone is eating 1200 calories a day exercising a lot and not losing weight. It's more than likely a hormonal issue. With this hormonal issue their metabolic rate has slowed down to below 1200 calories. So it still about calories either way.

There are benefits to eating more protein, as i said they make you feel fuller longer, and you eat less calories, also the fat you mentioned releases CCK(cholecystokinin) which makes people feel full. This just means they feel full on less calories, doesn't mean anything more, they are still in a calorie deficit. If you eat too much protein it gets converted to glucose. So either way your body is either going to consume it through your food, or your body will make it out of protein. Makes no difference, unless you get involved in to endurance sports.

And this doesn't really go against what Taubes says. Saying that a calorie is just a calorie doesn't really help anybody. Taubes goes on to say that a carb calorie is worse than a fat calorie because a carb calorie leads to overeating through the insulin response and encourages fat storage whereas a fat calorie leads to satiation.

But why is there this disbelief among low calorie advocates that it is impossible for fat calories to be wasted when there are no carbs available to allow the dietary fat to be broken down and stored as fat?

annacataldo

for me, low carb cuts out so many foods that i become overwhelmed and give up.. i need a diet i can stick with for life, not something that im constantly struggling to find foods i can eat. i have potatoes, rice, whole wheat pastas/bread, high fiber cereal, beans, and various items like this on a daily basis; because its cheap and easy. you also need to consider the cost of going low carb, not just the health side of it.

ive lost all my wiehgt by just sticking to what mfp suggests.

Acg67

But why is there this disbelief among low calorie advocates that it is impossible for fat calories to be wasted when there are no carbs available to allow the dietary fat to be broken down and stored as fat?

Didn't we already go over this? fat can be stored without the presence of insulin

Also do you recommend a low protein and low carb diet to lose weight as protein is also insulinogenic?

CoryIda

Just throwing myself out there (since someone else did as a low carber)- as a carb-eating weight loss (and drastically improved health) success.
I've lost:
125 pounds,
90+ inches,
33% body fat

I love carbs (and fat, and protein).

EricMurano

I really think more study has to be done into this but here's what I believe after reading heaps on the subject and through my own experiences:

* It's really easy to consume a lot of calories if you eat bread, rice, pasta and pastry
* When you count calories you optimise for high volume, low calorie food. Breads, rice and pasta are the opposite of this
* Most diets that work (Atkins etc) I think tell people that calories don't matter but that a single food or macro nutrient is to blame. The diet then tells them to eat what they want as long as it's not this 'evil food'. The result is that most people on the diet accidentally get into a calorie deficit because it's hard to eat anything when you cut out that food, at least initially
* Protein is friggin fantastic. It satiates a lot more than carbs and fat (for the volume) and it's essential to get heaps of it when exercising or training a lot

Now you can get carbs from sources other than breads, rice and pasta. Those other foods will have less calories per square inch and therefore you eat more of them without blowing out your calorie budget.

SammyKatt

I personally will always say Low Carb. I can do low cal for months and months and I wont lose a single pound but once I do low carb I lose weight.

Ex: eat 1300 cals and stay the same, eat 1800 cals gain weight. Do low carb and eat 2000 cals and lose.

so for me, low carb is what I have to do. It's really about finding what works for you and doing it.

Marll

I personally will always say Low Carb. I can do low cal for months and months and I wont lose a single pound but once I do low carb I lose weight.

Ex: eat 1300 cals and stay the same, eat 1800 cals gain weight. Do low carb and eat 2000 cals and lose.

so for me, low carb is what I have to do. It's really about finding what works for you and doing it.

While the numbers are different, this is my experience as well, I can eat nearly double the calories on low carb and loose the same amount of weight as a low calorie diet, except my food is full of what actually tastes good: bacon, cream, cheese, awesome vegtables, any kind of meat and fish, nuts, oils, fat, etc.

EricMurano

How low are your carbs? If you're in ketosis then you're not supposed to be in it for long. Doesn't Atkins only use ketosis for the initial phase?

Marll

After a while you start to get sick of eating protein constantly.

Speak for yourself LOL. There are so many vegtable/meat combinations that I could probably make a different dish every night for months on end. There is no boredom here in my cooking habbits. More often than not I think that people that don't like to cook or enjoy cooking have issues with variety. There is no doubt about it, low carb is less convenient and a bit more time consuming to cook for, and there are hardly any quick take out type meals that mesh with it well, you just have to make the time like you make time for anything else.

Issues with low carbers and performance, it just doesn't work. if you want to be a bodybuilder your muscles will be flat if you do low carb. Protein acts as a diuretic, it dehydrates the body, that's why people experience kidney issues, it's not the protein it's the dehydration. If you want to be an endurance athlete, your muscles won't have the glycogen to perform very well. Also if you're in ketosis, ketones are acidic. Which can cause problems in the body such as disease. Acid destroy's cells. If you consume a decent amount of carbs, and a good amount of protein, you should be fine.

The kidney thing is such an over used myth about low carbing. Kidney damage can occur in people with already comprimised kidneys, or if you take in insane amounts of protein (nearly humanly impossible amounts). Further people always seem to equate low carb to high protein. In reality any low carb dieter that has actually researched and read what they should will know that it is a high fat diet, with moderate protein. There are plent of other diuretics as well, which by your reasoning a bodybuilder would never eat?

Asparagus, Brussel Sprouts, Beets, Oats, Cabbage, Carrots, Lettuce, Tomatoes, Garlic, Radishes, Onions....

Also saying that someone can't bodybuild or get a good pump on low carb is nonsense. That's like saying you can't be a bodybuilder if you don't supplement, which is rediculous at best. If when I was lifting heavy in my high school and early years in the Army on a diet of total crap (literally chocolate, mountain dew and taco bell with a bit of odds and end mixed in) and gained tons of muscle and strength, I'd be willing to be good money someone on a good, clean low carb diet can do much much better.

grinch031

Issues with low carbers and performance, it just doesn't work. if you want to be a bodybuilder your muscles will be flat if you do low carb. Protein acts as a diuretic, it dehydrates the body, that's why people experience kidney issues, it's not the protein it's the dehydration. If you want to be an endurance athlete, your muscles won't have the glycogen to perform very well. Also if you're in ketosis, ketones are acidic. Which can cause problems in the body such as disease. Acid destroy's cells. If you consume a decent amount of carbs, and a good amount of protein, you should be fine.

I'm about to put this to the test. After running several half and full marathons on a very high carb diet, I'm about to start training for a full marathon on a low carb diet (50g of carbs per day or less). I have gained 5-10 lbs every time I trained for a race.

So my hypothesis is that on a low carb diet I will:

1) Have more energy during all of my training runs (all while in a glycogen-depleted state) and perform better on race day
2) Lose weight during the course of the training plan

lucy1945

i've eat way more veggies then i ever did before. so i guess it feel its been good for me. AND i even crave them now, as i didn't really before. i tend to do more greens than giant plates of meat. I try to find a balance i guess. if i do bread, i go for the double high fiber bread or the ryvita crackers. that seems to keep my blood sugar stable and me feeling good. When i lose a little more and when i exercise more...i add a little more carbs.

tigersword

again educate yourself, there is no metabolic advantage to low carb diets as have been repeatedly shown in controlled metabolic ward studies

http://www.ajcn.org/content/20/10/1104.full.pdf

http://www.ajcn.org/content/21/11/1291.full.pdf

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/92/11/4480.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968851

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8561057

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2319073

I'm not going to argue about what expert opinions or studies are valid and which aren't, because Taubes put a lot of effort into doing just that. My own anecdotal experience is that low carb diets are the path of least resistance to losing weight and being healthier.

And Taubes conveniently left out all the evidence and research that goes against his insulin theory of obesity. Why doesn't Taubes recommend eating low protein and low carb as protein is insulinogenic as well?

Look at table 4 and pay attention to the protein rich foods and their insulin AUC. compare beef and fish to lets say pasta

An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276

http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf

also read

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html

I just wanted to quote this from Acg67. It seems this entire concept went totally ignored by the "pro-Taubes" side in this debate. If the insulin response from carbs are to blame for all the evils, then why doesn't the insulin response from protein cause just as many evils? Protein can cause the same, and in some cases, an even higher insulin spike than carbs. Doesn't that basically invalidate Taubes' entire theory?