average fashion model VS plus-size *pics*
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What is the purpose of a model? To display clothes. Therefore there is no need to have all models being size 2s. I have no problem with models of various sizes from 0 and up. Yes and I also have no problem with someone obese modelling either, because if I am obese and a potential customer I want to be able to see what the clothes would look like on me. The whole plus size model starting from a size 6 thing is just ridiculous.
The issue of self image is far deeper than just the model industry. Its partly because the entire entertainment industry promotes that to be beautiful who have to look a particular way and its not just size, its colour, its the hair etc and this is what makes unsuspecting females with low self esteem feel even worst about themself.
By the way I think the plus size model in the photos is gorgeous...0 -
I think they both look unhealthy. You have both ends of the spectrum here. One is underweight and the other is overweight. To use them as models period promotes an unhealthy image.
I'm sorry, but you are WRONG! That "plus-sized" model looks like I look when I am in my healthy weight range (5'10" 170ish Size 8/10). She is not anywhere near overweight!. She could do a bit more toning, but she is not overweight by any means.
It's crap like this that makes average healthy women into people with eating disorders!
Just as a basis for comparison, I'm 5'10" and weigh 170ish (my maintenance range tends to go between 168-172). I have a healthy body fat % (lower end of the healthy range, actually) and mostly wear Size 8 in jeans (sometimes smaller in different bottoms, but mostly 8). I have stretch marks and loose skin, so you won't ever see me as a model (even if I was prettier, which I'm not, and that's fine), but I probably am a bit more slender than the "plus sized" woman in the picture (I probably have a smaller waist and larger chest). I have muscle, though, which seems to be absent on both models.
I guess my point is that I am in no way "plus sized" but I look more like the "plus sized" model and, as such, that is misleading.
Indeed, both models could use some weight training.
It's just so disheartening to see people calling this model overweight. Truly, this is the reason why so many of us have serious body image issues even though we are within our healthy weight range. I don't see that model as overweight. She looks awfully average to me. Thank God I haven't bought into the thinner is better crap.
When I reach my goal weight of 165 I will likely be about a size 8. I could go to 150ish which would put me at a size 6, but either way it goes, I will look much more like the "plus-sized" model. It would be absolutely demoralizing to hear people calling me unhealthy and overweight despite all my hard work, dedication, and my healthy lifestyle.0 -
Back in the 1960s, we had the infamous "Twiggy" -- nearly all girls aspired to look like her, including myself. It was never going to happen thus I was continually battling self-image issues.
Back then, I personally NEVER heard or read about plus-size models.
I believe that we will always have the fashion media using thin models -- something that's never going to change.
Fortunately, today's women are keenly aware that the thin model image is NOT normal, never was and never will be.
It all comes down to personal preference and hopefully we choose the healthy route. I know I am.1 -
It's a shame the pics were removed...I would have liked to have seen what all the hubbub was about...Thanks mfp!0
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I agree that too thin is just as bad as too heavy.... healthy weight is different for everyone and that is what we should be showing ppl...however i doubt that a size 18 is healthy for anyone..but i could be wrong...eitherway i just think that it should be about being healthy and not a stick or too heavy
For some people, a size 18 is indeed healthy. If you are built on large lines, and are tall and fit, a size 18 can be as healthy as a size 8 for someone who has a small build. At 5'8" with a large frame, I would prefer to be a (UK) 14-16 (I think this is US12-14), and this may be achievable (although maybe not - my ribcage is vast!), but for my 6' cousin, with a larger-again build, who runs marathons for fun, a size 18 is indeed 'healthy'. The problem with making judgements based on clothing sizes is that any number can be healthy, or unhealthy, depending on the person in it. For me, or my cousin, to be in single-figure sizes would be very, very unhealthy indeed. For someone of Kate Moss' build to wear a size 18 would equally suggest that she was making some unhealthy choices.0 -
I like the way the "plus" size model looks. It''s how I want to look. I don't wan to be toned with a washboard stomach. To me that is not beautiful on a woman. I have old world view of beauty.0
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here's an article where you can click on the NSFW links.It's a shame the pics were removed...I would have liked to have seen what all the hubbub was about...Thanks mfp!
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/01/11/new-magazine-editorial-highlights-shocking-differences-between-plus-size-and/0 -
- Twenty years ago the average fashion model weighed 8% less than the average woman. Today, she weighs 23% less.
Is this because the models are getting thinner or because the "average woman" is getting bigger? Probably a little of both, but since our country has been getting fatter as a whole, I would assume it's probably the latter more than the former.
I have to agree with him...
I'm all for loving yourself but I disagree with the whole big is beautfiul campaign...first time I've said that on MFP.
I think it's coddling women and taking away personal responsibility for health
Unless you have a medical condition that is beyond your control, IMO it's not ok to be too big or too thin
agree!!
i think a lot of people are in denial about what being overweight is.
having fat excessive fat inside the human body not only looks terrible but its dangerous!0 -
Kinda sad that 50% of women wear a size 14.... I don't think models should look like a bag of bones but I don't think plus size models should have to be huge because average women keep getting fatter. I've seen things saying a size 6 is now plus size in modeling which is crazy because to me 6 is a size that 'average' women wear. I wear a 4 to a 6 I am most DEFINILTY not plus size in anyway.... I think models (not plus size!) should be a size 2 or something. Thats still healthy but still very thin.0
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A healthy weight is determined by one's body fat percentage. A man should have a BF% of between 8-15%, and a woman should have between 16-24%.
If people are outside of that range, they will likely have health issues because of being over or under weight. Because every person has different amounts of muscle mass, it is difficult to compare gross body weight of any two people based upon their height.
If one is serious about determining optimum body weight for themselves, it is helpful for that person to have their body composition determined. Skinfold testing by someone experienced at that method often works the best.0 -
I think they both look unhealthy. You have both ends of the spectrum here. One is underweight and the other is overweight. To use them as models period promotes an unhealthy image.
^Agree!0 -
That is actually incorrect. Women under 40 should be between 21-33% and Men under 40 should be between 8-19%. The only reason someone would be healthy lower than that is if they are hardcore athletes.A healthy weight is determined by one's body fat percentage. A man should have a BF% of between 8-15%, and a woman should have between 16-24%.
If people are outside of that range, they will likely have health issues because of being over or under weight. Because every person has different amounts of muscle mass, it is difficult to compare gross body weight of any two people based upon their height.
If one is serious about determining optimum body weight for themselves, it is helpful for that person to have their body composition determined. Skinfold testing by someone experienced at that method often works the best.
The body fat percentage chart below is based on guidelines by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Use your gender and age range to find out if you have a healthy body fat %.
The yellow band is considered an acceptable body fat percentage, green is better and rated fit, and blue is athletic
A body fat percent reading in the orange bar is considered overfat
A body fat percent result in the red bar is considered obese
A body fat percentage lower than the blue bar is considered underfat
Healthy body fat percentages in the yellow, green and blue bands imply that your risks for weight-related ailments are lower than the unhealthy body fat percentage bands colored orange and red. If your body fat reading is in the overfat or obese range, losing weight (body fat) will improve your health.
(Source: bodyspex.com)0 -
I just want to add...
When will we, as women, learn to stop listening to "society"?
:flowerforyou:
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Thanks for posting the link!
here's an article where you can click on the NSFW links.It's a shame the pics were removed...I would have liked to have seen what all the hubbub was about...Thanks mfp!
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/01/11/new-magazine-editorial-highlights-shocking-differences-between-plus-size-and/0 -
Neither of the models are my ideal. It was hard to get a good look at the thin one, but I could tell that the plus size model is too big for my personal taste.0
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That is actually incorrect. Women under 40 should be between 21-33% and Men under 40 should be between 8-19%. The only reason someone would be healthy lower than that is if they are hardcore athletes.A healthy weight is determined by one's body fat percentage. A man should have a BF% of between 8-15%, and a woman should have between 16-24%.
If people are outside of that range, they will likely have health issues because of being over or under weight. Because every person has different amounts of muscle mass, it is difficult to compare gross body weight of any two people based upon their height.
If one is serious about determining optimum body weight for themselves, it is helpful for that person to have their body composition determined. Skinfold testing by someone experienced at that method often works the best.
The body fat percentage chart below is based on guidelines by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Use your gender and age range to find out if you have a healthy body fat %.
The yellow band is considered an acceptable body fat percentage, green is better and rated fit, and blue is athletic
A body fat percent reading in the orange bar is considered overfat
A body fat percent result in the red bar is considered obese
A body fat percentage lower than the blue bar is considered underfat
Healthy body fat percentages in the yellow, green and blue bands imply that your risks for weight-related ailments are lower than the unhealthy body fat percentage bands colored orange and red. If your body fat reading is in the overfat or obese range, losing weight (body fat) will improve your health.
(Source: bodyspex.com)
Wow, check you Ms. Smartypants.
We could debate the percentage points ad infinitum I'm sure, my source is my exercise physiologist... but suffice to say that BF% is how one knowswhether he/she is at a healthy weight. My personal experience says that at 15.3%, I was still carrying too much bodyfat. I'm age 52 by the way. My Doctor agreed with me, and together we agreed on a weight that would yield about a 13% BF.
My point was that it is not by looks. Obviously, a person's appearance is related to their bodyfat.
Recently it seems to me that many people on this forum seem to be advocating being over their healthy weight range.
I understand maintaining a healthy self-image or self-schema. There is a personal advantage to an objective view of oneself, being able to identify areas to improve upon, especially with regard to ones health. This doesn't mean one should loathe themselves, but it also doesn't mean that one should decieve themselves into thinking that being at a weight that will complicate their health is beneficial to them.0 -
I suppose my issue with your initial statement is that women outside of the 16-24% body fat range would be unhealthy when, according to nationally respected organizations (and the personal trainer, nutritionist, and doctor I have spoken to), most of the % pounds in that range are below healthy fat levels (women generally need at least 12% body fat for essential body function).
That is actually incorrect. Women under 40 should be between 21-33% and Men under 40 should be between 8-19%. The only reason someone would be healthy lower than that is if they are hardcore athletes.A healthy weight is determined by one's body fat percentage. A man should have a BF% of between 8-15%, and a woman should have between 16-24%.
If people are outside of that range, they will likely have health issues because of being over or under weight. Because every person has different amounts of muscle mass, it is difficult to compare gross body weight of any two people based upon their height.
If one is serious about determining optimum body weight for themselves, it is helpful for that person to have their body composition determined. Skinfold testing by someone experienced at that method often works the best.
The body fat percentage chart below is based on guidelines by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Use your gender and age range to find out if you have a healthy body fat %.
The yellow band is considered an acceptable body fat percentage, green is better and rated fit, and blue is athletic
A body fat percent reading in the orange bar is considered overfat
A body fat percent result in the red bar is considered obese
A body fat percentage lower than the blue bar is considered underfat
Healthy body fat percentages in the yellow, green and blue bands imply that your risks for weight-related ailments are lower than the unhealthy body fat percentage bands colored orange and red. If your body fat reading is in the overfat or obese range, losing weight (body fat) will improve your health.
(Source: bodyspex.com)
Wow, check you Ms. Smartypants.
We could debate the percentage points ad infinitum I'm sure, my source is my exercise physiologist... but suffice to say that BF% is how one knowswhether he/she is at a healthy weight. My personal experience says that at 15.3%, I was still carrying too much bodyfat. I'm age 52 by the way. My Doctor agreed with me, and together we agreed on a weight that would yield about a 13% BF.
My point was that it is not by looks. Obviously, a person's appearance is related to their bodyfat.
Recently it seems to me that many people on this forum seem to be advocating being over their healthy weight range.
I understand maintaining a healthy self-image or self-schema. There is a personal advantage to an objective view of oneself, being able to identify areas to improve upon, especially with regard to ones health. This doesn't mean one should loathe themselves, but it also doesn't mean that one should decieve themselves into thinking that being at a weight that will complicate their health is beneficial to them.
So if your doctor recommended you be at an extremely low Body Fat %, I guess you can go with that, but that is NOT a healthy body fat for most people (even fitness models and fitness competitors tend to have 16-18% during competitions or during their "seasons").
The chart reflects nationally recognized standards that indicate health levels and risks based on body fat percentages.0 -
I suppose my issue with your initial statement is that women outside of the 16-24% body fat range would be unhealthy when, according to nationally respected organizations (and the personal trainer, nutritionist, and doctor I have spoken to), most of the % pounds in that range are below healthy fat levels (women generally need at least 12% body fat for essential body function).
That is actually incorrect. Women under 40 should be between 21-33% and Men under 40 should be between 8-19%. The only reason someone would be healthy lower than that is if they are hardcore athletes.A healthy weight is determined by one's body fat percentage. A man should have a BF% of between 8-15%, and a woman should have between 16-24%.
If people are outside of that range, they will likely have health issues because of being over or under weight. Because every person has different amounts of muscle mass, it is difficult to compare gross body weight of any two people based upon their height.
If one is serious about determining optimum body weight for themselves, it is helpful for that person to have their body composition determined. Skinfold testing by someone experienced at that method often works the best.
The body fat percentage chart below is based on guidelines by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Use your gender and age range to find out if you have a healthy body fat %.
The yellow band is considered an acceptable body fat percentage, green is better and rated fit, and blue is athletic
A body fat percent reading in the orange bar is considered overfat
A body fat percent result in the red bar is considered obese
A body fat percentage lower than the blue bar is considered underfat
Healthy body fat percentages in the yellow, green and blue bands imply that your risks for weight-related ailments are lower than the unhealthy body fat percentage bands colored orange and red. If your body fat reading is in the overfat or obese range, losing weight (body fat) will improve your health.
(Source: bodyspex.com)
Wow, check you Ms. Smartypants.
We could debate the percentage points ad infinitum I'm sure, my source is my exercise physiologist... but suffice to say that BF% is how one knowswhether he/she is at a healthy weight. My personal experience says that at 15.3%, I was still carrying too much bodyfat. I'm age 52 by the way. My Doctor agreed with me, and together we agreed on a weight that would yield about a 13% BF.
My point was that it is not by looks. Obviously, a person's appearance is related to their bodyfat.
Recently it seems to me that many people on this forum seem to be advocating being over their healthy weight range.
I understand maintaining a healthy self-image or self-schema. There is a personal advantage to an objective view of oneself, being able to identify areas to improve upon, especially with regard to ones health. This doesn't mean one should loathe themselves, but it also doesn't mean that one should decieve themselves into thinking that being at a weight that will complicate their health is beneficial to them.
So if your doctor recommended you be at an extremely low Body Fat %, I guess you can go with that, but that is NOT a healthy body fat for most people (even fitness models and fitness competitors tend to have 16-18% during competitions or during their "seasons").
The chart reflects nationally recognized standards that indicate health levels and risks based on body fat percentages.
You may be confused. I'm a guy. According to your chart, which I agree with by the way, at 13% I would be squarely in the middle of the "Athletic" range.0 -
I was confused (your profile pic doesn't give it away). Sorry for the confusion! I thought you were trying to say that it was healthy for a woman to get that low. You definitely would be good to go then.
I suppose my issue with your initial statement is that women outside of the 16-24% body fat range would be unhealthy when, according to nationally respected organizations (and the personal trainer, nutritionist, and doctor I have spoken to), most of the % pounds in that range are below healthy fat levels (women generally need at least 12% body fat for essential body function).
That is actually incorrect. Women under 40 should be between 21-33% and Men under 40 should be between 8-19%. The only reason someone would be healthy lower than that is if they are hardcore athletes.A healthy weight is determined by one's body fat percentage. A man should have a BF% of between 8-15%, and a woman should have between 16-24%.
If people are outside of that range, they will likely have health issues because of being over or under weight. Because every person has different amounts of muscle mass, it is difficult to compare gross body weight of any two people based upon their height.
If one is serious about determining optimum body weight for themselves, it is helpful for that person to have their body composition determined. Skinfold testing by someone experienced at that method often works the best.
The body fat percentage chart below is based on guidelines by the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
Use your gender and age range to find out if you have a healthy body fat %.
The yellow band is considered an acceptable body fat percentage, green is better and rated fit, and blue is athletic
A body fat percent reading in the orange bar is considered overfat
A body fat percent result in the red bar is considered obese
A body fat percentage lower than the blue bar is considered underfat
Healthy body fat percentages in the yellow, green and blue bands imply that your risks for weight-related ailments are lower than the unhealthy body fat percentage bands colored orange and red. If your body fat reading is in the overfat or obese range, losing weight (body fat) will improve your health.
(Source: bodyspex.com)
Wow, check you Ms. Smartypants.
We could debate the percentage points ad infinitum I'm sure, my source is my exercise physiologist... but suffice to say that BF% is how one knowswhether he/she is at a healthy weight. My personal experience says that at 15.3%, I was still carrying too much bodyfat. I'm age 52 by the way. My Doctor agreed with me, and together we agreed on a weight that would yield about a 13% BF.
My point was that it is not by looks. Obviously, a person's appearance is related to their bodyfat.
Recently it seems to me that many people on this forum seem to be advocating being over their healthy weight range.
I understand maintaining a healthy self-image or self-schema. There is a personal advantage to an objective view of oneself, being able to identify areas to improve upon, especially with regard to ones health. This doesn't mean one should loathe themselves, but it also doesn't mean that one should decieve themselves into thinking that being at a weight that will complicate their health is beneficial to them.
So if your doctor recommended you be at an extremely low Body Fat %, I guess you can go with that, but that is NOT a healthy body fat for most people (even fitness models and fitness competitors tend to have 16-18% during competitions or during their "seasons").
The chart reflects nationally recognized standards that indicate health levels and risks based on body fat percentages.
You may be confused. I'm a guy. According to your chart, which I agree with by the way, at 13% I would be squarely in the middle of the "Athletic" range.0 -
Kinda sad that 50% of women wear a size 14.... I don't think models should look like a bag of bones but I don't think plus size models should have to be huge because average women keep getting fatter. I've seen things saying a size 6 is now plus size in modeling which is crazy because to me 6 is a size that 'average' women wear. I wear a 4 to a 6 I am most DEFINILTY not plus size in anyway.... I think models (not plus size!) should be a size 2 or something. Thats still healthy but still very thin.
size 6/7/8/9 seems average to me...
I feel average...but because of vanity sizing, I can wear a 4 in some brands...really?? It'd be no problem for me to fit a size 2 in American Eagle or Old Navy Jeans0
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