Teacher Criticisms...(rant)
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I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.
I hate to tell you but not only are many, if not most, workers in the private sector not getting raises in this economy, they are lucky if they keep their jobs. I wouldn't complain.0 -
I love this article:
"If teachers are mere babysitters, pay them accordingly
1:11 am February 23, 2011, by Maureen Downey
This babysitter piece and the blueberry story are favorites of teachers who often send me copies. This wonderful essay is typically attributed to a New Hampshire paper, but I could not verify the source in a database search of U.S. newspapers going back six years. The essay has been making the rounds for a few years but two readers sent it to me this week, so I thought that was a sign to run it.
So, here it is, author unknown:
Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year. It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit. We can get that for less than minimum wage.
That’s right. Let’s give them $3 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).
Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.
However, remember they only work 180 days a year. I am not going to pay them for any vacations.
LET’S SEE…That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on. My calculator needs new batteries.)
What about those special education teachers and the ones with master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.
Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here. There sure is.
The average teacher’s salary (nationwide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student– a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)
WHAT A DEAL!
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog"0 -
I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.
I hate to tell you but not only are many, if not most, workers in the private sector not getting raises in this economy, they are lucky if they keep their jobs. I wouldn't complain.
I doubt that many private sector jobs are dealing with the idea of furloughs and reduction in pay. Salaries for them are just not going up.0 -
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.
okay, now i'm getting confused. i get that this kid made his bed, and i think it's fine that his grandmother let him stay in jail, and it's cool that we finally agree on something.
but you just claimed that this is an issue with our society, yet earlier you claimed that revamping *only* the education system would help this. also, you were at some point (i'll go digging for it later) writing about how anyone not interested in learning should just be dropped, and how you would send your 13 year old daughter to outward bound if she didn't study (not have any kind of disciplinary action, just not study or do homework - like me) but in this post, it seems that you are only referring to big time idiot kind of mistakes like the kid and his stolen car. clarification, please.
side note:
(we had another kid at my husband's school last year who stole a car and used the gps in the car to get him to a hotel in charlotte, so the police just waited until he parked to go after him. he tried to escape by going down the hotel laundry shoot, but he's in jail too. my husband's record also reflects this kid's scores on the end of course test)0 -
I agree I teach in North Carolina one of the lowest paid states for teachers. Not only are we one of the lowest paid our copay and deductibles on insurance are very high. I have friends that work in the private sector and when I tell them my copay they are in shock. I have not had any kind of pay raise in three years and our bonuses for meeting expected growth have not been given to use in three years either.
We are losing a lot of teachers due to low pay I will probably be one of the next ones to go. I can't put my kids through college with what I make.
I hate to tell you but not only are many, if not most, workers in the private sector not getting raises in this economy, they are lucky if they keep their jobs. I wouldn't complain.
I doubt that many private sector jobs are dealing with the idea of furloughs and reduction in pay. Salaries for them are just not going up.
fuloughs. ugh. :grumble:
our state budget has gone to *kitten* here in nc, but only state employees are required to pay into it. but not our state government, though. it's unconstitutional for them to give up their pay unless they volunteer to do so. the only one that volunteered to have their pay cut was our governor.
so not cool.0 -
THIS! I educate adults (in fitness) and even they whine and give up! Over half the adult US population is overweight and that directly affects their health in most cases. If people give up on one of the most important things in their life (health), why would you expect their children to have great discipline?i just saw on another post the mention of teachers 'snivelling' for more money when they are not getting results. this kind of thing burns just burns me up.
i can't stand it when people who have never stuck a toe in the education field go on about how teachers are lazy, get paid for nothing in the summer, and are only babysitting anyways, so how hard can it really be?
then you have the people who want to run education like a business, and if you don't get the results, you don't get the pay. if education was a business, teachers could fire and hire the students based on their performance. but no. we don't get that option.
we teach *everyone*, no matter what. even if they only show up to school once a week. even if their parents cuss us out on the phone and tell us that *their* child is *our* problem when they are at school. even if a student consistently refuses to lift a finger because they just do not care. and we are still held accountable for a student's testing scores even if they were expelled from school for 150 days out of 180.
there are always going to be teachers who drop the ball and don't do their part, but the majority of us never give up on those students who have already given up on themselves. we keep hoping that one day they might open their book, write something down and learn something.
boo to people that criticize the general educator populace without ever having taught. if you haven't stood in front of a class of 20 to 30 students and taught, you really have no idea. :grumble:
Yes there are some bad teachers, but all in all our direction in this country should be more money for education and less to programs like US Senator program. We'd save 450 billion a year on a program that hasn't done much to improve US government since 1964.
Don't bag on teachers. Children's education and discipline to learn starts at home.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.
Before I became a SAHM, I had a 45-60 minutes commute, I would arrive at school rarely past 6:30 AM. Once a week I would leave at 4:10 (school was released at 2:20); other than that, I wouldn't normally leave until 6 or so......and that was after I was married. Before that, I worked much longer hours. I had commitments on weekends and evenings on top of what is required of the regular classroom teacher.
You are right, there are stresses in every job, no matter what it is. The frustration for teachers, however, is the lack of appreciation and respect. Yes, there are bad teachers who show up at the last minute and leave as soon as they are able, even before they are supposed to. There are people like that in every single job.
The frustration for teachers is that they have to teach to the standardized tests because there is so much emphasis placed on those instead of being able to focus on the fundaments that the students need. In a staff meeting once, they handed the teachers a sample MEAP test, maybe 6th or 7th grade level, and it was difficult because of the wording of the test. Non-educators are telling teachers what they need to teach and what they need to accomplish.
The frustration for teachers are that SOME (not all) do not beleive their child could do anything wrong, It is the teacher's fault. Or, SOME children are not used to discipline at home so when they are disciplined at school they don't understand why. When I called home to one parent, she asked me "What am I supposed to do?" SOME students are allowed to run their homes so when they come to school, they feel they can run the classrooms and be disrespectful to the teachers because they are allowed to do so at home.
Do I agree with tenure? No because it protects the teachers that do just hand out worksheets, show movies, etc. There are several other things that I don't agree with; however, I did enjoy my job, I loved working with my students, but I absolutely hated the politics that had to be played. In the 11 years that I taught, things changed so much. Education isn't always about education anymore, which is sad.0 -
I am not talking about a parent allowing a kid only one mistake in his lifetime! I am talking about society. Above, a case was given of a 15 year old who had a history of unacceptable behavior, who stole his grandma's car wrecked it and almost killed a passenger. That is the kind of mistake I am talking about. Any 15 year old I ever met could tell the difference between right an wrong, and if he continually gets it wrong, he needs to suffer the consequences.
okay, now i'm getting confused. i get that this kid made his bed, and i think it's fine that his grandmother let him stay in jail, and it's cool that we finally agree on something.
but you just claimed that this is an issue with our society, yet earlier you claimed that revamping *only* the education system would help this.
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I never said, "only" the educational system needs to be fixed in this country.
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\ also, you were at some point (i'll go digging for it later) writing about how anyone not interested in learning should just be dropped,
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AGREED!
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and how you would send your 13 year old daughter to outward bound if she didn't study (not have any kind of disciplinary action, just not study or do homework - like me)
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I was not that specific. I said if she screwed up.
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but in this post, it seems that you are only referring to big time idiot kind of mistakes like the kid and his stolen car. clarification, please.
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Apples and oranges.
WITHIN the educational system, I would not tolerate those who have no desire to learn. Let them go their own way. There are limited resources and there is no need to waste money where it isn't wanted.
Outside the educational system, those who commit crimes should be punished.
Clear?
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side note:
(we had another kid at my husband's school last year who stole a car and used the gps in the car to get him to a hotel in charlotte, so the police just waited until he parked to go after him. he tried to escape by going down the hotel laundry shoot, but he's in jail too. my husband's record also reflects this kid's scores on the end of course test)
************************************************************************
Don't you just love bureaucracies?0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.
Before I became a SAHM, I had a 45-60 minutes commute, I would arrive at school rarely past 6:30 AM. Once a week I would leave at 4:10 (school was released at 2:20); other than that, I wouldn't normally leave until 6 or so......and that was after I was married. Before that, I worked much longer hours. I had commitments on weekends and evenings on top of what is required of the regular classroom teacher.
You are right, there are stresses in every job, no matter what it is. The frustration for teachers, however, is the lack of appreciation and respect. Yes, there are bad teachers who show up at the last minute and leave as soon as they are able, even before they are supposed to. There are people like that in every single job.
The frustration for teachers is that they have to teach to the standardized tests because there is so much emphasis placed on those instead of being able to focus on the fundaments that the students need. In a staff meeting once, they handed the teachers a sample MEAP test, maybe 6th or 7th grade level, and it was difficult because of the wording of the test. Non-educators are telling teachers what they need to teach and what they need to accomplish.
The frustration for teachers are that SOME (not all) do not beleive their child could do anything wrong, It is the teacher's fault. Or, SOME children are not used to discipline at home so when they are disciplined at school they don't understand why. When I called home to one parent, she asked me "What am I supposed to do?" SOME students are allowed to run their homes so when they come to school, they feel they can run the classrooms and be disrespectful to the teachers because they are allowed to do so at home.
Do I agree with tenure? No because it protects the teachers that do just hand out worksheets, show movies, etc. There are several other things that I don't agree with; however, I did enjoy my job, I loved working with my students, but I absolutely hated the politics that had to be played. In the 11 years that I taught, things changed so much. Education isn't always about education anymore, which is sad.0 -
Have you had her take GATE? If not, then it's NOT the teacher's fault. And that teacher isn't giving up because it's a situation where a gifted child is among those not as gifted.This is a difficult topic for me.
I'm the mother of a gifted child. Her giftedness, among other things, has caused her to struggle emotionally which interferes with her education. I don't condemn teachers. I know that my child is a behavioral nightmare. But at the same time, she is walking around with 135 IQ so if you don't find a way to put something in her head, then you are wasting one of the most brilliant minds you will ever get the opportunity to put your hands on.
What does that say about a teacher that would give up on her???
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
THIS! I educate adults (in fitness) and even they whine and give up! Over half the adult US population is overweight and that directly affects their health in most cases. If people give up on one of the most important things in their life (health), why would you expect their children to have great discipline?i just saw on another post the mention of teachers 'snivelling' for more money when they are not getting results. this kind of thing burns just burns me up.
i can't stand it when people who have never stuck a toe in the education field go on about how teachers are lazy, get paid for nothing in the summer, and are only babysitting anyways, so how hard can it really be?
then you have the people who want to run education like a business, and if you don't get the results, you don't get the pay. if education was a business, teachers could fire and hire the students based on their performance. but no. we don't get that option.
we teach *everyone*, no matter what. even if they only show up to school once a week. even if their parents cuss us out on the phone and tell us that *their* child is *our* problem when they are at school. even if a student consistently refuses to lift a finger because they just do not care. and we are still held accountable for a student's testing scores even if they were expelled from school for 150 days out of 180.
there are always going to be teachers who drop the ball and don't do their part, but the majority of us never give up on those students who have already given up on themselves. we keep hoping that one day they might open their book, write something down and learn something.
boo to people that criticize the general educator populace without ever having taught. if you haven't stood in front of a class of 20 to 30 students and taught, you really have no idea. :grumble:
Yes there are some bad teachers, but all in all our direction in this country should be more money for education and less to programs like US Senator program. We'd save 450 billion a year on a program that hasn't done much to improve US government since 1964.
Don't bag on teachers. Children's education and discipline to learn starts at home.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I fully agree that parents should be responsible for their kids' education. We homeschooled our kids even though we had the option of an upscale and supposedly good school system, which we thought sucked big time. It was run like a concentration camp. But I digress.
My son, as I have said prviously is 19 years old, has an Honors degree from our state university, and is presently in his first year of law school - youngest student ever admitted to that law school. My daughter is 16, has already earned (though not yet received) her Associates Degree and will be entering our state university as a junior next Fall. Both kids skipped grade school and high school, and both were homeschooled. I think we proved that formal schooling, in particular public schooling is not necessary. We are big advocates of parents taking responsibility for their kids' education.
In addition I have taught Latin for homeschoolers and had more than 20 kids. I was also an adjunct for a graduate professional school where I taught adults for 10 years. So I know what teaching is.0 -
ah, here's our little discourse:If they do not want that, then do nothing with them. It is not the government's role to manage peoples' lives. If people are too stupid to act in their own interests, then let them discover where they are on their own.
you will have to revamp waaaay more than the education system for this to happen. keep dreaming.
edited to say: my husband would like to add that if you went this route, they would all be breaking into your house. maybe not yours, in this utopia that you seem to live, but in a lot of other places with a large poor population.This is the mentality they count on. Just like the Army.
this does not jive with your latest clarification. i suppose you didn't *technically* state what would need to be fixed, but you did shrug me off without a clear answer.0 -
Have you had her take GATE? If not, then it's NOT the teacher's fault. And that teacher isn't giving up because it's a situation where a gifted child is among those not as gifted.This is a difficult topic for me.
I'm the mother of a gifted child. Her giftedness, among other things, has caused her to struggle emotionally which interferes with her education. I don't condemn teachers. I know that my child is a behavioral nightmare. But at the same time, she is walking around with 135 IQ so if you don't find a way to put something in her head, then you are wasting one of the most brilliant minds you will ever get the opportunity to put your hands on.
What does that say about a teacher that would give up on her???
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This child sounds like a perfect candidate for homeschooling. Do not leave her in the public school system, since that system teaches to the middle, and she will be bored out of her mind. Most teachers do not understand or know how to handle gifted students. Take her out. Home school her and if you need the structure of a class, enroll her in Community College. If she is a behavioral problem in the public schools it is probably because she is surrounded by idiots. Give her a challenge, which the public school system is not good at doing. We started our daughter, not gifted but probably bright normal in Community College at age 10.0 -
ah, here's our little discourse:If they do not want that, then do nothing with them. It is not the government's role to manage peoples' lives. If people are too stupid to act in their own interests, then let them discover where they are on their own.
you will have to revamp waaaay more than the education system for this to happen. keep dreaming.
edited to say: my husband would like to add that if you went this route, they would all be breaking into your house. maybe not yours, in this utopia that you seem to live, but in a lot of other places with a large poor population.This is the mentality they count on. Just like the Army.
this does not jive with your latest clarification. i suppose you didn't *technically* state what would need to be fixed, but you did shrug me off without a clear answer.
Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to shrug you off. I just don't want to get into a discussion of what is wrong with society in general since that topic is HUGE, and I am having a hard time finding time to respond on just the subject of education0 -
I think we proved that formal schooling, in particular public schooling is not necessary. We are big advocates of parents taking responsibility for their kids' education.
:noway:
whoa, you have proved nothing! there were 49.4 million public school students and 60 million private school students enrolled in 2010. your experience with your own two children prove nothing in the face of these huge numbers and varied circumstance that each student might come from!
the only thing you have proved is that you seem to be a great parent who did what worked for your kids, and you were lucky that they didn't write you and your good intentions off with hormonal teenage angst. so kudos to you for that, but that's about the end of the line for that.0 -
ah, here's our little discourse:If they do not want that, then do nothing with them. It is not the government's role to manage peoples' lives. If people are too stupid to act in their own interests, then let them discover where they are on their own.
you will have to revamp waaaay more than the education system for this to happen. keep dreaming.
edited to say: my husband would like to add that if you went this route, they would all be breaking into your house. maybe not yours, in this utopia that you seem to live, but in a lot of other places with a large poor population.This is the mentality they count on. Just like the Army.
this does not jive with your latest clarification. i suppose you didn't *technically* state what would need to be fixed, but you did shrug me off without a clear answer.
Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to shrug you off. I just don't want to get into a discussion of what is wrong with society in general since that topic is HUGE, and I am having a hard time finding time to respond on just the subject of education
fair enough.0 -
I'm with you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU 0 -
Why is that even a topic on a fitness forum??
Well said. I couldn't agree more! I currently teach in a private school, but have also worked in public. It doesn't matter what type of school it is, teaching is tough... and those who do it well, do it because we love our job and our students.0 -
I think we proved that formal schooling, in particular public schooling is not necessary. We are big advocates of parents taking responsibility for their kids' education.
:noway:
whoa, you have proved nothing! there were 49.4 million public school students and 60 million private school students enrolled in 2010. your experience with your own two children prove nothing in the face of these huge numbers and varied circumstance that each student might come from!
the only thing you have proved is that you seem to be a great parent who did what worked for your kids, and you were lucky that they didn't write you and your good intentions off with hormonal teenage angst. so kudos to you for that, but that's about the end of the line for that.
We have proven that it can be done, and done successfully. For parents who get no joy from the public school system, and given your numbers above, I would expect that number to be in the millions, that is a very signficant thing to prove. When we started homeschooling we had lots of doubts. We certainly don't anymore.
Bytheway, 60 milliion people in private schools? Where did you get that figure. I would have thought the vast majority would be in public schools.0 -
Why is that even a topic on a fitness forum??
Well said. I couldn't agree more! I currently teach in a private school, but have also worked in public. It doesn't matter what type of school it is, teaching is tough... and those who do it well, do it because we love our job and our students.
Well, considering the other crap that is on this forum...this topic actually has some relevance in our lives.0
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