Teacher Criticisms...(rant)
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Veg - Just for my curiosity, why did you children go to a community college instead of continuing with homeschooling and heading to a 4 year program at an age/academically appropriate time? My experience with community college tends to be that the rigor of the classes are not has high as they would be at a traditional 4 year school. Do they feel like they were held back by the level of their classmates?
Did you children have any social issues with being in college that young? I'm not judging I just wanted to know. I hear about this happening but have never had a conversation with someone who actually had children go to college so young.
As far as being gifted, I discussed this a little bit before. There is a difference between being bright and being gifted. I think that kids that are bright benefit from advanced classes, but I'm not sure that gifted (131 and above) benefit from being in classes with the bright children as much as bright children would benefit being with them. So, if the purpose of ability grouping is to give everyone what they need academically, I think that the bright children would not be in classes with the truly gifted (just as you wouldn't put a child with an IQ score of 80 in a class with a kid that scored between 90 - 110).0 -
Veg - Just for my curiosity, why did you children go to a community college instead of continuing with homeschooling and heading to a 4 year program at an age/academically appropriate time?
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Because there were certain subjects we could NOT teach them such as Chemistry. Also, part of their education was to acclimatize to college. So community college was a segway into the system.
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My experience with community college tends to be that the rigor of the classes are not has high as they would be at a traditional 4 year school.
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Like any generalization that is partly true and partly false. I took a calculus course for fun, and I can tell you it was just as hard as a calculus course at Penn. If I were going to generalize, I would say that easy subjects in Community College or a four year school tend to be easy and hard subjects tend to be hard.
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Do they feel like they were held back by the level of their classmates?
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Not at all. Community Colleges take all comers, so there were a lot of kids there who didn't belong in college. However, the attritian rate was very high. In my calculus class, for example, only about 30% finished, and most of those, like myself had had college calculus before.
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Did you children have any social issues with being in college that young?
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No. There were about 40 kids roughly their age there, also homeschoolers. This is a really big trend in our area.
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I'm not judging I just wanted to know. I hear about this happening but have never had a conversation with someone who actually had children go to college so young.
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With regard to that issue, my daughter actually finished all her credits needed to graduate when she was 15. We don't want a 15 or 16 year old living in a college dorm, so we continued her at Community College. Her birthday is in August, so she will be just 17 when she enters her University, the same age as some incoming freshmen. My son, like my daughter entered as a junior, but even so, since he qualified for their honors program, he spent his first year in the Freshman Honors Dorms. It was a seamless transition.
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As far as being gifted, I discussed this a little bit before. There is a difference between being bright and being gifted. I think that kids that are bright benefit from advanced classes, but I'm not sure that gifted (131 and above) benefit from being in classes with the bright children as much as bright children would benefit being with them. So, if the purpose of ability grouping is to give everyone what they need academically, I think that the bright children would not be in classes with the truly gifted (just as you wouldn't put a child with an IQ score of 80 in a class with a kid that scored between 90 - 110).
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I agree if you have enough gifted to make a class. If not, that is the second best choice for everyone.
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Do you think that homeschooling should have some kind of regulations?0
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Do you think that homeschooling should have some kind of regulations?
NEVER! No! Under no circumstances. There are no government controls in Connecticut. We don't have to report to them and we don't even have to tell them we are homeschooling. Every now and then some feisty superintendent tries to get the legislature to pass some stupid law putting us under their control. The last time that happened we packed the legislative office building with thousands of homeschooling families. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to fit into the hearing room. We closed down the legislative server with thousands of emails, and we closed down their phone system. We had endless testimony to present, hundreds of people, until they finally cried "uncle." The Chair of the Education Committee announced he was going to withdraw the bill and made the comment, 'From what I have heard, the public schools ought to be reporting to them, not vice versa."0 -
Do you think that homeschooling should have some kind of regulations?
NEVER! No! Under no circumstances. There are no government controls in Connecticut. We don't have to report to them and we don't even have to tell them we are homeschooling. Every now and then some feisty superintendent tries to get the legislature to pass some stupid law putting us under their control. The last time that happened we packed the legislative office building with thousands of homeschooling families. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to fit into the hearing room. We closed down the legislative server with thousands of emails, and we closed down their phone system. We had endless testimony to present, hundreds of people, until they finally cried "uncle." The Chair of the Education Committee announced he was going to withdraw the bill and made the comment, 'From what I have heard, the public schools ought to be reporting to them, not vice versa."
I guess I don't necessarily think that the homeschooling population should have to report to the public schools, but it seems like there needs to be some kind of accountability for homeschooling parents. I know that the vast majority of homeschooling parents do exactly what needs to be done and their children are more advanced than their public/private school peers. But, what about situations where the parents are not doing what needs to be done. To me government control is to deal with the people who are not doing what they should be. Should there not be a standard that all students regardless of how they are educated should have to meet? How do we measure that standard without some kind of regulations?
I mean look at your family situation. You realized that you were not qualified to teach certain subjects (like chemistry), so you enrolled your children in the community college. Some parents would not do that.
As an educator, I know when I'm outside my element. I would never attempt to teach chemistry or some of the higher level math classes because I'm not qualified to do so. I don't need the government to tell me that, but there are some people who don't get that and need to be slapped upside the head so to speak.
I've had homeschooled kids in my classroom, and most of them are really far ahead of their peers (awesome). However, there are always a few that are way behind. In many cases, it seems like these kids have run amok for 3 - 5 years and then they get dropped into the public schools. These kids are ususally 2-3 grade levels behind.0 -
Do you think that homeschooling should have some kind of regulations?
NEVER! No! Under no circumstances. There are no government controls in Connecticut. We don't have to report to them and we don't even have to tell them we are homeschooling. Every now and then some feisty superintendent tries to get the legislature to pass some stupid law putting us under their control. The last time that happened we packed the legislative office building with thousands of homeschooling families. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to fit into the hearing room. We closed down the legislative server with thousands of emails, and we closed down their phone system. We had endless testimony to present, hundreds of people, until they finally cried "uncle." The Chair of the Education Committee announced he was going to withdraw the bill and made the comment, 'From what I have heard, the public schools ought to be reporting to them, not vice versa."
I guess I don't necessarily think that the homeschooling population should have to report to the public schools, but it seems like there needs to be some kind of accountability for homeschooling parents. I know that the vast majority of homeschooling parents do exactly what needs to be done and their children are more advanced than their public/private school peers. But, what about situations where the parents are not doing what needs to be done. To me government control is to deal with the people who are not doing what they should be. Should there not be a standard that all students regardless of how they are educated should have to meet? How do we measure that standard without some kind of regulations?
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And the government is going to know better than the parent what we SHOULD be doing? I doubt it. I am against government in any form telling us what to do. Fortunately, the Connecticut Constitution was written hundreds of years before the Department of Education at either the Federal or state level existed. It was written at a time when everyone homeschooled. It is decidedly NON-INTERVENTION and that is just the way we like it.
Education is particularly an area where the Government has no clue. I don't know what state you are in, but in Connecticut we have something called the Mastery Tests, and even the teachers hate it. They are used to create non-thinking drones. Everybody should know exactly the same things in every subject at the same point in their lives. Hogwash! We don't homeschool because we want uniformity and equal competence with everyone else. Do you know what homeschoolers call "No Child Left Behind?" We call it, "No Child Gets Ahead." We are not interested in bringing the government school model into our homes. Even homeschoolers who use a school-like model with specific one size fits all lesson plans are not really referred to as home schoolers, but rather, School at Homers.
WE DO NOT WANT OR NEED ANYONE TELLING US WHAT TO DO.
Yes, some people will make mistakes, but are you telling me that all the kids in government schools are all success stories? I will compare our success rate to the government schools any day. As was said in the meeting at the legislature, which I talked about before, the conclusion of the Chair of the Education Committee said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
When the public schools start doing better than us, then maybe they can give us advice, but not before then.
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I mean look at your family situation. You realized that you were not qualified to teach certain subjects (like chemistry), so you enrolled your children in the community college. Some parents would not do that.
As an educator, I know when I'm outside my element. I would never attempt to teach chemistry or some of the higher level math classes because I'm not qualified to do so. I don't need the government to tell me that, but there are some people who don't get that and need to be slapped upside the head so to speak.
I've had homeschooled kids in my classroom, and most of them are really far ahead of their peers (awesome). However, there are always a few that are way behind. In many cases, it seems like these kids have run amok for 3 - 5 years and then they get dropped into the public schools. These kids are ususally 2-3 grade levels behind.0 -
I'm not talking about "making mistakes". I'm talking about the people who choose to keep their children out of school and then teach them nothing. How do you protect those children? Their parents are supposed to do that, but what should be done when parents fail to do that? You don't think there should be any accountability?
I don't think the school systems do it in the right way. I think that every child should create a portfolio of things they know how to do and that should be the measure of whether they have a deeper understanding. I think kids should have to do something like defending a thesis to move on to the next grade. My ideas will never take off because it costs to much. Testing is easy. I don't believe in testing I never have. But I would think that homeschooling parents who are doing what they need to do wouldn't be afraid to share that information. I don't agree with having to ask permission/do what you're told to do, but I think that if it is so successful you would want to share it.0 -
i just saw on another post the mention of teachers 'snivelling' for more money when they are not getting results. this kind of thing burns just burns me up.
i can't stand it when people who have never stuck a toe in the education field go on about how teachers are lazy, get paid for nothing in the summer, and are only babysitting anyways, so how hard can it really be?
then you have the people who want to run education like a business, and if you don't get the results, you don't get the pay. if education was a business, teachers could fire and hire the students based on their performance. but no. we don't get that option.
we teach *everyone*, no matter what. even if they only show up to school once a week. even if their parents cuss us out on the phone and tell us that *their* child is *our* problem when they are at school. even if a student consistently refuses to lift a finger because they just do not care. and we are still held accountable for a student's testing scores even if they were expelled from school for 150 days out of 180.
there are always going to be teachers who drop the ball and don't do their part, but the majority of us never give up on those students who have already given up on themselves. we keep hoping that one day they might open their book, write something down and learn something.
boo to people that criticize the general educator populace without ever having taught. if you haven't stood in front of a class of 20 to 30 students and taught, you really have no idea.
Teachers don't get paid nearly enough, period. The U.S. particularly is very screwed up in that aspect. Professional football players get paid too much, while the teachers of our future leaders, future scientists, future doctors, future TEACHERS, get paid next to nothing. Somethin ain't right. :P0 -
I'm not talking about "making mistakes". I'm talking about the people who choose to keep their children out of school and then teach them nothing. How do you protect those children? Their parents are supposed to do that, but what should be done when parents fail to do that? You don't think there should be any accountability?
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We do not want any government interference in homeschooling. Period. What about that don't you understand?
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I don't think the school systems do it in the right way. I think that every child should create a portfolio of things they know how to do and that should be the measure of whether they have a deeper understanding. I think kids should have to do something like defending a thesis to move on to the next grade. My ideas will never take off because it costs to much. Testing is easy. I don't believe in testing I never have. But I would think that homeschooling parents who are doing what they need to do wouldn't be afraid to share that information. I don't agree with having to ask permission/do what you're told to do, but I think that if it is so successful you would want to share it.
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We will share it, but not with the government. And I don't know if you understand that we do not want the government especially telling us what we NEED to do. We don't want their advice. We don't want their money. We don't want them. I think I can safely say I speak for 99% of home schoolers.
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I'm not talking about "making mistakes". I'm talking about the people who choose to keep their children out of school and then teach them nothing. How do you protect those children? Their parents are supposed to do that, but what should be done when parents fail to do that? You don't think there should be any accountability?
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We do not want any government interference in homeschooling. Period. What about that don't you understand?
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I don't think the school systems do it in the right way. I think that every child should create a portfolio of things they know how to do and that should be the measure of whether they have a deeper understanding. I think kids should have to do something like defending a thesis to move on to the next grade. My ideas will never take off because it costs to much. Testing is easy. I don't believe in testing I never have. But I would think that homeschooling parents who are doing what they need to do wouldn't be afraid to share that information. I don't agree with having to ask permission/do what you're told to do, but I think that if it is so successful you would want to share it.
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We will share it, but not with the government. And I don't know if you understand that we do not want the government especially telling us what we NEED to do. We don't want their advice. We don't want their money. We don't want them. I think I can safely say I speak for 99% of home schoolers.
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I get that you don't want government interference. I understand that you don't want to government telling you what you NEED to do. I'm not suggesting that you should. I'm not talking about the government control of anything. I just wonder how you protect children who have parents who fail to do what is necessary. I'm just wondering if you are a self-regulating community. If you see parents having difficulty, do you as a homeschooling community offer help? Or is it simply, if you choose to do this - you're on your own?0 -
I'm not talking about "making mistakes". I'm talking about the people who choose to keep their children out of school and then teach them nothing. How do you protect those children? Their parents are supposed to do that, but what should be done when parents fail to do that? You don't think there should be any accountability?
************************************
We do not want any government interference in homeschooling. Period. What about that don't you understand?
************************************
I don't think the school systems do it in the right way. I think that every child should create a portfolio of things they know how to do and that should be the measure of whether they have a deeper understanding. I think kids should have to do something like defending a thesis to move on to the next grade. My ideas will never take off because it costs to much. Testing is easy. I don't believe in testing I never have. But I would think that homeschooling parents who are doing what they need to do wouldn't be afraid to share that information. I don't agree with having to ask permission/do what you're told to do, but I think that if it is so successful you would want to share it.
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We will share it, but not with the government. And I don't know if you understand that we do not want the government especially telling us what we NEED to do. We don't want their advice. We don't want their money. We don't want them. I think I can safely say I speak for 99% of home schoolers.
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I get that you don't want government interference. I understand that you don't want to government telling you what you NEED to do. I'm not suggesting that you should. I'm not talking about the government control of anything. I just wonder how you protect children who have parents who fail to do what is necessary. I'm just wondering if you are a self-regulating community. If you see parents having difficulty, do you as a homeschooling community offer help? Or is it simply, if you choose to do this - you're on your own?
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Nobody in our community tells anyone else how to homeschool. There are resources available to the homeschooling community as a whole, such as, eg. my Homeschooling Latin Class. There are homeschooing get togethers. Advice and opinions are swapped. There is no one in authority. Other homeschoolers will comment if they see something that seems unusual. With a large number of homeschoolers utilizing the Community Colleges, there will be counselling available there if needed or wanted. We never needed or wanted it.
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OK. As I suspected (and remembered from my undergrad classes on school regulations) I did a little research and your state seems to be in the minority (only 10 states) that require no regulation of homeschooling. I live in GA (which is in the majority 21 states) - they require test scores, notification, and professional evaluation of children. This is part of why I have so many questions about it. I think that living in your state has given you the ability to take that stance. Would you have still homeschooled if you were required to send notification or achievement test scores and/or professional evaluation, plus other requirements (e.g. curriculum approval by the state, teacher qualification of parents, or home visits by state officials). (as in NY, PA, and several other states around you)?0
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OK. As I suspected (and remembered from my undergrad classes on school regulations) I did a little research and your state seems to be in the minority (only 10 states) that require no regulation of homeschooling. I live in GA (which is in the majority 21 states) - they require test scores, notification, and professional evaluation of children. This is part of why I have so many questions about it. I think that living in your state has given you the ability to take that stance. Would you have still homeschooled if you were required to send notification or achievement test scores and/or professional evaluation, plus other requirements (e.g. curriculum approval by the state, teacher qualification of parents, or home visits by state officials). (as in NY, PA, and several other states around you)?
I would have homeschooled but we would have registered as members of a private school. There are various organizations which for a very small fee will allow you to register with them so that you can say your kids are being privately schooled. This is because of absurd regulations such as the ones you described. You can even get a high school diploma from these schools if you want. You simply write up what your kids did, and they will evaluate it and issue a diploma. Keepds the bureaucrats happy.0 -
The last time that happened we packed the legislative office building with thousands of homeschooling families. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to fit into the hearing room. We closed down the legislative server with thousands of emails, and we closed down their phone system. We had endless testimony to present, hundreds of people, until they finally cried "uncle." The Chair of the Education Committee announced he was going to withdraw the bill and made the comment, 'From what I have heard, the public schools ought to be reporting to them, not vice versa."
this sounds very much like what we do when the state tries to screw us over. it's like you have your own little union!0 -
The last time that happened we packed the legislative office building with thousands of homeschooling families. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to fit into the hearing room. We closed down the legislative server with thousands of emails, and we closed down their phone system. We had endless testimony to present, hundreds of people, until they finally cried "uncle." The Chair of the Education Committee announced he was going to withdraw the bill and made the comment, 'From what I have heard, the public schools ought to be reporting to them, not vice versa."
this sounds very much like what we do when the state tries to screw us over. it's like you have your own little union!
Yes, exactly. Only we don't pay union dues.0 -
So unions are all bad?
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The last time that happened we packed the legislative office building with thousands of homeschooling families. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to fit into the hearing room. We closed down the legislative server with thousands of emails, and we closed down their phone system. We had endless testimony to present, hundreds of people, until they finally cried "uncle." The Chair of the Education Committee announced he was going to withdraw the bill and made the comment, 'From what I have heard, the public schools ought to be reporting to them, not vice versa."
this sounds very much like what we do when the state tries to screw us over. it's like you have your own little union!
Yes, exactly. Only we don't pay union dues.
does this mean we can say that you're evil now? :devil: <mwah-ah-ah-ah!>0 -
unions aside, i think this sums up very well why education overseas can run circles around us. do take a moment to watch. if you are on this thread, you will appreciate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ7VWqj1QsM&feature=share 0 -
unions aside, i think this sums up very well why education overseas can run circles around us. do take a moment to watch. if you are on this thread, you will appreciate it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ7VWqj1QsM&feature=share
HOT DAMN! She is my ideal! Love her!
You are right. That is exactly how all teachers should behave.0 -
unions aside, i think this sums up very well why education overseas can run circles around us. do take a moment to watch. if you are on this thread, you will appreciate it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ7VWqj1QsM&feature=share
HOT DAMN! She is my ideal! Love her!
You are right. That is exactly how all teachers should behave.
thought you'd get a kick out of that. in america, we would be sued for everything we've got if we did that to a student's phone.
a couple of years ago, the teachers in our county made a uniform decision that cell phones would not be allowed in the classroom under any circumstances. if students had them in their bags or purses for before/after school use, that was fine. but if they had it out in class, the teacher would take the phone, turn it in to the office, and it had to be picked up by a parent.
this lasted about a week and a half before the school board turned that decision over for us. they had too many complaints from irritated parents who didn't understand what the big deal was if their dear-hearts were talking/texting/gaming in the middle of their classes.
sad but true. :grumble:0
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