Starve Mode? 25% Fat Bloke. Thoughts on plateau please

Newfiedan

Also, though you may lose weight when your body is in that "starvation mode" as some like to call it, when your body does begin to get those calories it will continue to run on the calorie count it is used to & begin to store the "extra" calories it isn't used to getting as fat, so that it has stores for when it is "starving" again. There is even a theory, like the above commenter mentioned, that your body gets very efficient at what you are doing.

Thank you Elizabeth. I totally agree with your point above, extra calories goes straight to fat afterwards.

I like your ideas of turning your diet intake around. I will try that!

Dead wrong, there are to many factors going on to just unilaterally say this, it depends on training, hormones, and many other factors. You can easily overeat and have those cals go to muscle if you are training heavy and feeding the body's need to grow muscle. Its more about understanding the mechanisms that allow for muscle growth and the optimal times to overeat.

btdublin

As a side note for those whom do not believe in starvation mode as it were, how would you explain those whom resume losing more weight when they eat more? Luck? Anyhow whether or not it exists is dependent on the personal experience. When you are obese its not a problem, you will not lose muscle when you are cutting cals however when you do get leaner you can readily lose fat and muscle in equal portions which is what you want to prevent. Now that said if you are at 25% then my advice is to just resume with the deficit, I did about 9 months and dropped 40 lbs to get to around that 10% range and that is where I ran into the muscle/fat loss problem with caloric cutting so I stopped cutting cals and have turned to other methods to shed the fat. I have a problem with extreme caloric cutting, cutting cals is not the only way to shed fat despite what many may think. Do not worry about a plateau until you hit one, no point. I did eat back my exercise cals every time I wanted to or unless I was purposely zig zagging cals to accelerate fat loss. There are many diet myths and mantras out there so my advice would be to check out leangains.com and read up on them. There are many myths and mantras in the diet world that have no basis in real science so best learn what they are and get yourself going with a good knowledge basis.

Newfiedan - appreciated, this is what I was sort of expecting as the alternative view. Thank you.

MaximalLife

In a nutshell, you've sabotaged yourself.
You are going to fail with this approach.
Starvation diets don't work.
Why?
Because if your calorie deficit is too great you can easily suffer from
loss of muscle mass (slows down your metabolism) and impaired thyroid functions(slows down your metabolism).

Anyway, buck up and do what's recommended here on MFP, and all will be well.
Or do your own crash diet thing, and join the rest of yo yo dieting, unhealthy America.

The one thing you can't say after today is that YOU WERE NOT WARNED!
I am not trying to be unkind here, but I've seen too many people fail trying to over reach.

please back up your remark about impaired thyroid function by solid, scientific data.

No.

You can take advice or leave it.
Results speak volumes.
I have it.
He does not.

end of story.

If you want a debate, go have one, because all I present is results and what I believe got me there.
If he, you or anybody find a more excellent way, go for it.

Again, show me the results.

MaximalLife

In a nutshell, you've sabotaged yourself.
You are going to fail with this approach.
Starvation diets don't work.
Why?
Because if your calorie deficit is too great you can easily suffer from
loss of muscle mass (slows down your metabolism) and impaired thyroid functions(slows down your metabolism).

Anyway, buck up and do what's recommended here on MFP, and all will be well.
Or do your own crash diet thing, and join the rest of yo yo dieting, unhealthy America.

The one thing you can't say after today is that YOU WERE NOT WARNED!

I am not trying to be unkind here, but I've seen too many people fail trying to over reach.

You seem to have this answer as standard? Do you just copy and paste for everyone? The same cookie cutter response for the same cookie cutter problems?? Oh and he's not American.... You should have picked that out by reading his INDIVIDUAL problem....

The answers are simple, especially when asked over and over day after day.

He's not eating enough.
Address that, then we can talk politics or anything else anybody wants to snivel over.

stormieweather

Here are my thoughts:

Losing weight is NOT the same thing as losing fat. The scale can go down and we still look lumpy, saggy and jiggly. If you eat too little, you may lose muscle that you don't need to lose. Muscle burns more calories than fat does, so retaining as many as possible of your muscles will keep your metabolism higher. Eat adequately and work out to keep those muscles! When my fat is gone, I want to have a nice shape...not just a smaller version of my fat one.

And eating too little is generally not sustainable over the long term. Frequently, cravings/hunger eventually win and binges occur. This can completely negate all the hard work you did starving yourself. Eating a VLCD without a doctor supervising is the yo in a yo-yo diet. The other yo occurs when you begin eating normally after your metabolism has adapted to the lower calories, so the additional calories are stored as fat+. So you race to lose weight--> bam! <-- then it all piles right back on, plus bonus pounds, and you start over again, except this time, your metabolism is slower than it was before. Once it slows down, it never fully returns to it's original state.

From personal experience, when I eat too few calories, I am tired and crabby. I wake up tired and never feel energized at all. This results in a lower burn than if I'd eaten more and felt awake and moved more. I see the correlation on my Fitbit monitor.

Losing weight and keeping it off is a marathon, not a sprint. Pace yourself and be patient. You will eventually make it to the finish line. :flowerforyou:

btdublin

Still can't force myself to eat enough these last 2 weeks.

Having shrunk my appetite to only need to eat 800-1000 cals a day (and feeling fine on that) I really need to be eat double as I am now doing P90X.

I understand the science and I am probably hurting my chances by not eating enough - but I feel like I am undoing my good work of getting my portion sizes and snacking down...

meerkat70

Still can't force myself to eat enough these last 2 weeks.

Having shrunk my appetite to only need to eat 800-1000 cals a day (and feeling fine on that) I really need to be eat double as I am now doing P90X.

I understand the science and I am probably hurting my chances by not eating enough - but I feel like I am undoing my good work of getting my portion sizes and snacking down...

Please accept what I'm going to say as an attempt to be kind and supportive. I find what you're saying here very worrying. Firstly, you're undereating, and justifying it with terms like 'I've shrunk my appetite' or 'I've shrunk my stomach'. Logically, the notion of shrinking your stomach (without surgery) is a myth. This hasn't really happened, and the shifts you're describing are psychological (about your thoughts, feelings and behaviours) and not biological. The recognition that you have that you're probably damaging yourself and sabotaging your chances of healthy losses is also really concerning - it's the kind of distorted thinking about yourself that ultimately can lead to the kind of thinking associated with eating disorders.

Please take your health seriously. Please look after yourself. You're poised on the edge of a dangerous downward spiral. Choose to look after yourself properly instead?

btdublin

Thanks Meerkat.
Yes I know you are right. There is some stomach shrinkage but I do agree it is psychological - that's half the battle some times.

It's only been the last 2 weeks so I have not gone too far yet. Prob a good shock to the system and I will get back on track now. Now that I can train a bit more consistently I can relax the diet a little bit and focus on the workouts!

Off to buy a chicken wrap for lunch now!!

KJVBear33

Well, I have only really scanned everything you've wrote, but if I am getting everything correctly, you are platauing and youre wanting to lose more. I am not sure if this is helpful in any way shape or form, but I once gained some weight back that I had lost. I was upset and my trainer asked me a question that just blew my mind. She asked are you getting in enough calories per day? I said to her, why do you ask that? Does that have anything to do with gaining weight? And she told me yes. You spend SO much of your time burning off calories at the gym, only to put more calories in your body as the day goes by to lose weight........doesn't make sense to me really, but that is how the body works.

And obviously this site tells you how many calories you need per day by putting in your information and I am certainly not going to knock this site because its my first time on here, but you might want to talk to a proffesional.........doctor or trainer, one of the two........and ask for them to help you find out how many calories you can take in a day and see if it matches up to the site because sometimes sites like this will tell you one thing and then another will tell you something completely different, but either a trainer at your gym or your doctor might be of more help to you to figure it out.

Also, remember your water.........I used to be really bad about water, but now I am not..........my trainer told me that I needed at least 10-12 glasses a day. One more thing before I totally let this go for now........do you drink pop at all? If so, you might consider cutting that out totally.........and as far as beer or any other alcoholic drinking that goes on during the week or weekends, you might consider cutting that out too for a while and see if it makes a difference.

Lots of luck to you!

btdublin

Thanks Bear.

I'm actually not plateauing yet. Have actually been losing weight pretty quickly for me (4kg since NYE). But I am worried about plateauing soon and whether this whole "too little calories" is true.

Seems to be enough personal evidence to suggest there is something behind it.

Cheers to all who responded.

Certainly doing P90X now I need to up my cals and particularly protein so I start muscle gains and keep the fat loss going.

Psyb3r

Still can't force myself to eat enough these last 2 weeks.

Having shrunk my appetite to only need to eat 800-1000 cals a day (and feeling fine on that) I really need to be eat double as I am now doing P90X.

I understand the science and I am probably hurting my chances by not eating enough - but I feel like I am undoing my good work of getting my portion sizes and snacking down...

I'm not an expert and I don't pretend to be. I just suggest if you are having a hard time eating back calories you burn (It's hard to eat more when you're now used to eating less) eat things that are more dense in calories. Nuts are good, avacado, etc. Sometimes it's easier to eat things that have a high caloric value for less mass to get back your exercise calories.
Again I'm not an expert, and I don't have letters after my name, but I know from my experience, if I don't eat back my calories, I don't lose weight.

Good Luck!

carlie_carl

your in exacly the same boat as me, im supposed to be around 185lbs but like you I weigh 235lbs and have a muscular frame, I think my ideal weight is between 198-205 wether my bmi says thats ok or not I think thats a healthy size for me, Id go by your own instincs when you reach your ideal weight cos at the nd of the day its just numbers on paper telling you what you should be. ps...i hope you played the manly version of rugby....Rugby league ;-) haha
[/quote]

No f'ing way! Manly? Short shorts and no rucks/mauls... screw that. I am a front row so my place is in the meat grinder at the breakdown - not flopping around like a fish.
[/quote]

haha well you union guys do like to hug whilst the ball is in the sky 90% of the game :P

AnninStPaul

My am technically obese because of my height-weight but I am pretty muscular underneath, I just have a decent layer of fat (prob about 25% but I haven't had it professionally measured).

There are a number of online body fat estimators that require only a scale and a tape measure -- why not try them out just to determine how much fat you have to lose?

Fit_Canuck

I am going to give you the best free advice you will get in my opinion. Stop asking random people on a website how many calories to eat and how your metabolism works. Please go see a medical physician and a sport nutritionist in your area and educate yourself on your body type/composition and needs. Then you will be on the true path to health and happiness.

Best of luck and keep this thought in mind " It's not about loosing weight, it's about loosing fat and gaining muscle " don't take the quick way out by starving your body.

meerkat70

Losing.

And bear in mind 'medical physicians' rarely have any training in diet / nutrition....

meerkat70

tanks, remember if you've been eating this little, you may gain / stay the same for the first week or so that you up your intake. Up your intake slowly, until you reach a healthy target, and if you do have a little gain or STS, don't panic. Your body takes a little time to adjust.

Take care of yourself, and very good luck.

Fit_Canuck

Losing.

And bear in mind 'medical physicians' rarely have any training in diet / nutrition....

You'll notice in my post I mention talking to a sports nutritionist ( for diet and nutrition ), the physician can help you run tests to determine your overall health and can refer you to other professionals to help with body composition tests and metabolic assessment.

Newfiedan

If you have a muscular frame then you are not going to fit into a ideal cookie cutter weight, I am considered overweight for my height. I am 5ft8 and weigh in at anywhere between 162-163 lbs, I was considered obese at 200 lbs. Now given that I am more muscular than most guys I know I am not going to be 147 lbs I probably never will be that weight that is supposed to be the ideal weight for a guy my height which is total bullcrap because it takes nothing into account for muscle. This is the same reason why I say that BMI is as useless as the paper it was written on, it was a way to supply a general guide for general ppl, not those whom are more muscular. My ideal weight in my opinion will be around 170 lbs but that will be at a much leaner, more muscular me. In regards to your caloric intake if you are only consuming that much and are obese you can get away with that for a while, however here are a few things I think you should consider:
1) Rapid weight loss usually will = loose skin down the road. Do you really want this?
2) A very low cal diet will at some point impact overall metabolic rate
3) A very drastic cut when obese in cals will not usually result in muscle loss however when you do get leaner this will mean losing just as much muscle as fat, making you just as unhealthy as when you started.
4) Why would you want to eat so few calories when you can be just as successful using more cals just shifting your macro ratios?
5) There is much more to shedding fat and gaining muscle than simple caloric formulas. Calories in vs cals out is a flawed formula at best, there is a reason our bodies give us biofeedback. Eating that few calories most likely has played with your hormones. Ghrelin the hunger hormone can be drastically reduced when you go on extended very low calorie diets.
6) Keep in mind that the body is ever adapting, ever changing depending on what you feed it. The body can and will adapt to just about anything you do to it. The trick is to work with those adaptations to utilize then for effective fat loss. Working against it will only leave you frustrated and spinning your wheels.

meerkat70

Losing.

And bear in mind 'medical physicians' rarely have any training in diet / nutrition....

You'll notice in my post I mention talking to a sports nutritionist ( for diet and nutrition ), the physician can help you run tests to determine your overall health and can refer you to other professionals to help with body composition tests and metabolic assessment.

Is there really reason to believe that common sense won't do a reasonable job here? I'm always a bit surprised by the over-dependency people appear to want to cultivate on supposed medical experts. I mean, if there were a genuine problem, sure. But I think by and large, most people with a bit of intelligence, a reasonable amount of flexibility, and a level of determination, can successfully lose weight and build fitness without the assistance of medical staff.

Perhaps this is a transatlantic cultural difference.

KJVBear33

Youre welcome!! Glad I could help! I say not to worry about platauing...........if you are worried about it, my thinking is that thinking "oh God, I am going to gain this week" or any type of thinking like that can also hinder progress too. Its 50 percent or more psychological (and I do remember some posts before saying that it is........so I am giving them a thumbs up and saying good job for pointing that out.......got to give credit to where it is due) and 50 percent physical.

But I digress.......there is something to the whole calories thing........my trainer had told me so and she had lots of training in nutrition and all in school. I suggest checking out some sites to find out exactly what goes down with calories and how they play a role in our daily lives. I'd go to sites like Livestrong.com, but its all about personal preferences where that is concerned. I have googled it before and I know that both Live strong and Web MD have touched on this very subject.