Starve Mode? 25% Fat Bloke. Thoughts on plateau please

petreebird

Please read this link....disregard it if you like but I tend to trust things I read from the Mayo Clinic. JMHO

http://diet.com/g/mayo-clinic-diet-fad-diet

Furthermore, the combination of a high-protein diet with unlimited fat and the restriction on carbohydrates puts dieters at risk for conditions such as high blood pressure, heart disease, strokes, and diabetes. According to the American Heart Association, the risk is caused by increased cholesterol levels. This rise in cholesterol is brought on by the increase in fat and the decrease in fiber from fruits, vegetables, and whole-grain products. These foods are complex carbohydrates, and eliminating them causes the body to burn stored fat. While this process causes a weight loss, it triggers a reaction called the ‘‘starvation mode.’’

When the person ends the diet and again eats carbohydrates, the body responds by converting food into fat. This protection against starvation results in a weight gain.

i am sorry but this is pure bullcrap, you can easily go on an keto style diet without gaining back the weight, the problem is that when many go off the diet they overeat carbs, eating excess cals is how you can gain back the weight lost on the diet. As for raising cholesterol that is total BS to, eating fat does not raise cholesterol unless you have an underlying condition. Many obese ppl whom use a diet of this style improve right across the board for blood tests, cholesterol, etc. I am currently using a keto style diet to cut down and lean out under my docs supervision and my cholesterol has dropped down into a very healthy range. So long as you keep your fiber high there are no issues, and there is no correlation to fat in the diet and cholesterol, that is an age old medical myth that has long been disproven. Obese ppl are not fat because they eat fat, they are fat because of overindulgence in cals and carbs.it is true that it is not meant to be a long term diet, at most 6 mths but as for the rest of the stuff you just spewed forth as fact is in fact false. Please do some real research before you start spewing crap like this. I am not pro keto diet, nor am I pro any fad diet but there are methods which work very well and those that do not. I am experimenting with different approaches to find out for myself which works and what does not. A good friend of mine has lost over 85 lbs using a keto style diet over a 6 mth period and has been off the diet for over a year and not gained back a single pound.

Wow...rude much? I was just giving my opinion, yes based on info given to me by doc's and an R.N. specializing in nutrition. Just as you have info that proves your theory, I can most likely find just as much that proves mine, as is the case with pretty much anything these days. Just because someone states something that goes against what you have been told and what you believe doesn't mean you have to be an *kitten* about it.

Newfiedan

Its not being a jerk about it, its being serious about promoting wrong information. My doc initially told me the same thing but wanted to monitor my results and thus far he is simply floored as to what is happening because it goes dead against everything he thought was correct. All my results have been positive so he also had to rethink things. Yes you can find studies that support just about anyone's beliefs, the problem though is that what occurs in real life as in real results state the obvious. Many whom suffer from high cholesterol, and other conditions are often brought on by years of obesity and what you are seeing is simply a results of such. However the age old fad of low fat diets has long been proven to simply not be accurate. If it were we would all be slim happy healthy ppl. It makes about as much sense as ordering an xl fries and big mac at the window with an xl diet coke. The damage is done when you are obese, and that in and of itself can cause many healthy issues. This is not to say that slimmer ppl do not experience problems like high cholesterol and what not but the link between that and fat intake has long been disproven and I still know lots of health professionals and nutritionists whom hold onto this like a safety blanket because it forces them to rethink their education from a txt book published in the 1950s.

Helloitsdan

I just did your dietary numbers from information given and here ya go...

BMR 2005
TDEE 2757 <---thats only if you work out say 3 times a week.
Lean mass appx 166lbs
Fat 55lbs

Obese I Range.

Calories to cut to lose weight 2205 nets you appx 1.10lbs lost per week.
Set macros to:
30% Protein 165g
40% carbs 220g
30% Fat 74g

This allows maximum lean mass retention with loss of fat mas at appx 1.10lb per week as long as you maintain 3 workouts a week for appx 20-45 mins per workout.

You dont eat enough to support your weight loss with the amount of activity you do.

This will also break your plateau by forcing you to metabolize more food thus metabolizing fat.
Eat and enjoy Bro!

I dont understand where the debate is...He already replied to the forum "Helloitsdan - thanks for the calculations, appreciated. I agree, I am not eating enough, especially with the increased workouts. I have not hit a plateau yet, just preparing to avoid it. Think I up my workouts and simultaneously food intake."

gregpack

IMO Starvation mode is real. Personal experience here:

In my latter stage of restricted calorie dieting in October 2011. I had lost about 70 lbs in and had thirty to go. I really wanted to crank up and get 100 pounds off by New Year's. "Why" you might ask? Well I guess the only reason was I wanted to be able to say I lost 100 pounds last year. I upped my exercise levels to six days per week and cut calories down to below 1800 calorie a day. It worked for a while. IIRC I lost 12 pounds the first thirty days. Then, I think my body decided to say "no mas" My weight loss slowed dramatically, I caught three upper respiratory infections in a month ( I usually average maybe one per year) and my libido fell off a cliff. My mood soured noticeably and I was completely exhausted after working out. I usually had to go home and sit around the rest of the day. The final straw was when I checked my pulse and found my resting pulse rate was 48. It was then I realized that I was spinning my wheels and getting nowhere. I decided enough was enough. I decided to eat a couple of normal calorie days focusing on lots of carbs. Within 48 hours my resting pulse rate was back up in the high 60s, my mood improved and I got my mojo back.

Call it what you want, but if that isn't what my your body going into starvation mode, what was it?

lodro

I'd say overtraining and not fueling yourself. Starvation mode really happens when you're below 6% bodyfat. Are you? Really: people on this board are not going to experience it except if they're anorexic.

btdublin

I'd say overtraining and not fueling yourself. Starvation mode really happens when you're below 6% bodyfat. Are you? Really: people on this board are not going to experience it except if they're anorexic.

No, I am more like +25% body fat!

Do agree with not fueling yourself enough if working out.

I also do agree with those discussing slower metabolism / thyroid shutting down etc.

Thanks to all the responses.

petreebird

Its not being a jerk about it, its being serious about promoting wrong information. My doc initially told me the same thing but wanted to monitor my results and thus far he is simply floored as to what is happening because it goes dead against everything he thought was correct. All my results have been positive so he also had to rethink things. Yes you can find studies that support just about anyone's beliefs, the problem though is that what occurs in real life as in real results state the obvious. Many whom suffer from high cholesterol, and other conditions are often brought on by years of obesity and what you are seeing is simply a results of such. However the age old fad of low fat diets has long been proven to simply not be accurate. If it were we would all be slim happy healthy ppl. It makes about as much sense as ordering an xl fries and big mac at the window with an xl diet coke. The damage is done when you are obese, and that in and of itself can cause many healthy issues. This is not to say that slimmer ppl do not experience problems like high cholesterol and what not but the link between that and fat intake has long been disproven and I still know lots of health professionals and nutritionists whom hold onto this like a safety blanket because it forces them to rethink their education from a txt book published in the 1950s.

Thank you. I find this to be a much more informative response that gives me the urge to look outside my own box. Maybe I am wrong, but a response like this gives me much more incentive to research further into the issue as you said in your first post. After all it is a known fact that when people are insulted it tends to drive up their defense's and reduces their ability to listen.

Fit_Canuck

I'm always amazed when people come on the forums and say things like " This worked me for me and therefore it proves that decades of research and science is wrong "

That's the same as saying you don't need to jump out of a place with a parachute because 1 out of a million survives hitting the ground when their chute doesn't open.

Personally I err on the side of caution, if my physician and sports nutritionist tells me that eating under my BMR is unhealthy then I will believe it. And I don't personally think it's prudent to advertise or push something radically different than what professionals tell you because you've had good luck with it.

This is not to insult anyone but like many others are so frustrated seeing posts on forums of people who are advising others on medical or health related issues.

Those are my two cents on the subject.

Helloitsdan

I'd say overtraining and not fueling yourself. Starvation mode really happens when you're below 6% bodyfat. Are you? Really: people on this board are not going to experience it except if they're anorexic.

I tweeted this with #truth

Newfiedan

I'd say overtraining and not fueling yourself. Starvation mode really happens when you're below 6% bodyfat. Are you? Really: people on this board are not going to experience it except if they're anorexic.

I tweeted this with #truth

Although I hate the term starvation mode I think it depends more on the person than the bodyfat %, i know quite a few ppl whom stalled out on their designated caloric intakes and it took an increase in cals to see the fat come off and preserve the muscle. Although I was once a die hard calories in cals out person I experienced a dead stop to my fat loss at about 10% and then it started to become just as much muscle loss as fat loss if I cut cals which was unacceptable to me. This is why I turned to other methods to shed my remaining fat. If you want to just get down to a healthier bodyfat % then yeah I would be inclined to agree but if you wish to push it further then cutting cals is not the answer in my case. I have meticulous control over my diet and did all the 'right" things my body just was not cooperating with me. Now I have a different approach that is producing strength gains and shedding fat tracking my weight/body comp to ensure that I am not losing any muscle this time around.

Helloitsdan

I'd say overtraining and not fueling yourself. Starvation mode really happens when you're below 6% bodyfat. Are you? Really: people on this board are not going to experience it except if they're anorexic.

I tweeted this with #truth

Although I hate the term starvation mode I think it depends more on the person than the bodyfat %, i know quite a few ppl whom stalled out on their designated caloric intakes and it took an increase in cals to see the fat come off and preserve the muscle. Although I was once a die hard calories in cals out person I experienced a dead stop to my fat loss at about 10% and then it started to become just as much muscle loss as fat loss if I cut cals which was unacceptable to me. This is why I turned to other methods to shed my remaining fat. If you want to just get down to a healthier bodyfat % then yeah I would be inclined to agree but if you wish to push it further then cutting cals is not the answer in my case. I have meticulous control over my diet and did all the 'right" things my body just was not cooperating with me. Now I have a different approach that is producing strength gains and shedding fat tracking my weight/body comp to ensure that I am not losing any muscle this time around.

I started Intermittent Fasting because of this.
I love it!
=D

speedycakes

I always here so much about starvation mode and i think it's blown up way to much. Basically when you eat less than your BMR your body slows it's metabolism so you adjust to eating less calories. This makes it harder to build muscle and burn fat. You will have less energy and feel tired and worn down more often.

Have you heard the term eat more lose more? as long as your making the right choices and working out you will lose fat and gain muscle.

Newfiedan

ahh yeah in case ya missed it I know how to shed fat very well. I did not get to 10% bodyfat by accident. As for gaining muscle and losing fat they are 2 very different things and the body rarely does both at the same time unless you are obese, eating at a deficit will make muscle gain just about impossible unless you are genetically gifted. Building muscle requires a surplus, so you pretty much have to do 1 or the other or do both at the same time and not get anywhere.

Deedsie

Are you really eating less than 800 calories per day? That is not good. I weigh 133 lbs and I eat around 1200 calories per day and close to 1500 if I run for 30 minutes and my life is sedentary. I don't play sports or really do much except set on my butt. I don't think there is any way you are going to be able to maintain that level of intake. It's probably going to do damage to your body if you don't eat enough. Are you having trouble focusing? Do you feel your heart racing or find yourself getting dizzy when you stand up quickly?

Someone mentioned eating dense food since you aren't feeling hungry. Please do that. Also, maybe you could get some supplements or muscle gain powders or something. I take Advocare which is kind of pricey but I'm sure they have other things that you could get to do the same thing.

Finally, you should try to eat at least 4-5x per day. I eat every 2-3 hours. If you eat 2 meals with tons of calories there is no way your body is using all those calories right then. It's probably just adjusting and storing them for later when you are skipping meals.

I don't know if starvation mode is real or not, but I do know that eating disorders are and it is a hard path to walk as a girl. It has to be even harder for guys. Make a checklist that shows the portion size and the time you will eat each day for a week. Make 16 copies of that check list. Check off each time when you follow the chart. It will hold you accountable to eat what you should when you should.

btdublin

Are you really eating less than 800 calories per day? That is not good. I weigh 133 lbs and I eat around 1200 calories per day and close to 1500 if I run for 30 minutes and my life is sedentary. I don't play sports or really do much except set on my butt. I don't think there is any way you are going to be able to maintain that level of intake. It's probably going to do damage to your body if you don't eat enough. Are you having trouble focusing? Do you feel your heart racing or find yourself getting dizzy when you stand up quickly?

No, none of these things. I feel fine and full of energy all day. I do eat regularly, prob every 2 hours, but very small amounts of nuts or fruit for snacks between meals.

I may eat 1200-1400 cals a day but then do a 400-600 cal workout. Pushing myself to eat back as many of those cals as I can but it goes against the grain.

I am losing pretty fast and looking better, feeling stronger, so something is working.

Meggles63

If you're doing P90X, then you will need to up your calories. I'm in month 3 and recently upped (again) to 2100! I'm a 5'5", 132 lb. girl, and was ravenously hungry. I found that I was losing strength gains, etc. until I cut back on some of the cardio and upped my cals. Good luck!

trud72

first you MUST try and eat 3 meals a day EVERYDAY! have your 1500 cals(min) and try to eat back some if not most of your exersice cals this should kick start your body off the plataux also if you are starting the p90x try less carbs and more protein.
xx

btdublin

If you're doing P90X, then you will need to up your calories. I'm in month 3 and recently upped (again) to 2100! I'm a 5'5", 132 lb. girl, and was ravenously hungry. I found that I was losing strength gains, etc. until I cut back on some of the cardio and upped my cals. Good luck!

Thanks Mmeyer - I am hungry after but find a usual dinner sufficient, usually chicken or lean mince so getting good protein. Have made my meal sizes smaller than in the past so I am full much quicker. Ate 1900 cals yesterday which isn't bad, less about 500 cals of P90X pylometrics.

first you MUST try and eat 3 meals a day EVERYDAY! have your 1500 cals(min) and try to eat back some if not most of your exersice cals this should kick start your body off the plataux also if you are starting the p90x try less carbs and more protein.

Trud, I am eating 3-4 meals a day, just that they are only 300 cals each, then about 300 cals worth of healthy snacks too (apples and mixed fruit/nuts).

I have a well balanced diet and certainly not starving myself. Think I've just found a over-successful model of filling myself up for very few calories. I'm getting alot of fruit, veg, diary (good healthy fats and protein).

Check my food diary if your interested. I now fill days up in advance in the morning so I can plan my day.