what are people's thoughts about the paleo diet

Acg67

They are attacking it because they need science in order to believe in it. Some people need science, some need observation, and some go by faith alone (ie. religion). I happen to need observation more than science, but its nice when science also supports it. If I can observe that a diet has success for a number of people, then I consider it legit. If the underlying science is lacking or wrong, so be it, the diet still works and one day science will better explain why. If someone tells me a diet works and nobody can attest that it worked for them or was at all sustainable, then I will blow it off.

The issue with just relying on observations is that people then falsely beleive something works for the wrong reasons. So people lost weight on a diet not because of a caloric deficit but for some magical reason like they ate while hopping on one foot or eliminated grains or cut carbs. The same goes for supplements, people see that someone or a group of people lost weight taking something and beleive that it works, while there are numerous other confounders at play

grinch031

People on this board continuously try to say that sugar and refined carbs aren't unhealthy, don't cause obesity, etc.. Yet every time I eat them I end up binging on them and gaining weight. Or if I keep eating them and restrict calories, I'm starving all the time.

So am I supposed to listen to the "science", or follow the fad diet that actually allows me to lose weight? I'm going to choose the fad diet regardless of what the underlying science is.

Listen to the science and don't eat them. Whether they cause you to binge or not, there is plenty of science showing sugar and processed carbs are not healthy.

Yeah but according to the experts here, if I just "eat in moderation" i will create my caloric deficit and lose weight, right?

Well, yes. But losing weight and eating healthy are not the same subject. There is the oft referred to Twinkie Diet as proof that you can lose weight while eating sugar and processed crap food as long as you have a calorie deficit. But the odds that you'll remain healthy are far better if you eat healthy foods.

Or the odds that my deficit will last more than a month are better if I eat healthy foods.

bcattoes

Seriously, why does cutting out a food group drive so many people crazy?? Do vegetarians get this, as well??

OMG, yes!! Do a search for vegan or vegetarian and you'll find the same sort of arguments. Low-carb is another good one.

The only thing about any of these restrictive diets that drives me crazy is when people spout nonsense as fact. Meat is not bad. Beans are not bad. Whole grains are not bad. Any of these, and many other foods, may be bad on an individual level, but they are not bad for everyone.

I once had a paleo enthusiast tell me that legumes were poisonous. Well, since I'm 50, disease free and I've been eating beans for as long as I can remember, I knew this was utter nonsense. That was one of the first paleo threads I'd ever read and I'll admit that for while I thought everyone following the paleo lifestyle might be a bit looney. (I don't think that now)

grinch031

They are attacking it because they need science in order to believe in it. Some people need science, some need observation, and some go by faith alone (ie. religion). I happen to need observation more than science, but its nice when science also supports it. If I can observe that a diet has success for a number of people, then I consider it legit. If the underlying science is lacking or wrong, so be it, the diet still works and one day science will better explain why. If someone tells me a diet works and nobody can attest that it worked for them or was at all sustainable, then I will blow it off.

The issue with just relying on observations is that people then falsely beleive something works for the wrong reasons. So people lost weight on a diet not because of a caloric deficit but for some magical reason like they ate while hopping on one foot or eliminated grains or cut carbs. The same goes for supplements, people see that someone or a group of people lost weight taking something and beleive that it works, while there are numerous other confounders at play

But I think it is exaggerated how many people actually believe that some diet works for the magical reasons claimed by the creator of the diet. For instance, if you go to a low-carb message board, most of them actually believe that low-carb diets are effective because they prevent overeating, not because its impossible to get fat eating low-carb. But every time someone even mentions low-carb here, it is assumed they/we all believe the same magic.

If someone here posts that its impossible to get fat on a low-carb diet, I don't object to correct them on the science. I just hate when people go the other extreme and start bashing the entire diet just because someone is making incorrect statements about the science.

Acg67

But I think it is exaggerated how many people actually believe that some diet works for the magical reasons claimed by the creator of the diet. For instance, if you go to a low-carb message board, most of them actually believe that low-carb diets are effective because they prevent overeating, not because its impossible to get fat eating low-carb. But every time someone even mentions low-carb here, it is assumed they/we all believe the same magic.

If someone here posts that its impossible to get fat on a low-carb diet, I don't object to correct them on the science. I just hate when people go the other extreme and start bashing the entire diet just because someone is making incorrect statements about the science.

And if you pay attention to the same threads, there are lots of people who beleive in the magic. Like oh i went low carb to prevent insulin spikes and now eat lots of protein or yesterday someone was talking about how fructose turns right to fat and is not used by the body at all. There is so much garbage on both sides of the arguments, because you see just as much ignorance and stupidity on the anti low carb side as well

QueenHanifa

bump

grinch031

But I think it is exaggerated how many people actually believe that some diet works for the magical reasons claimed by the creator of the diet. For instance, if you go to a low-carb message board, most of them actually believe that low-carb diets are effective because they prevent overeating, not because its impossible to get fat eating low-carb. But every time someone even mentions low-carb here, it is assumed they/we all believe the same magic.

If someone here posts that its impossible to get fat on a low-carb diet, I don't object to correct them on the science. I just hate when people go the other extreme and start bashing the entire diet just because someone is making incorrect statements about the science.

And if you pay attention to the same threads, there are lots of people who beleive in the magic. Like oh i went low carb to prevent insulin spikes and now eat lots of protein or yesterday someone was talking about how fructose turns right to fat and is not used by the body at all. There is so much garbage on both sides of the arguments, because you see just as much ignorance and stupidity on the anti low carb side as well

I'm not ruling out insulin quite yet. I don't think its the only thing, but I certainly think it matters.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/83/6/1911.full

Acg67

But I think it is exaggerated how many people actually believe that some diet works for the magical reasons claimed by the creator of the diet. For instance, if you go to a low-carb message board, most of them actually believe that low-carb diets are effective because they prevent overeating, not because its impossible to get fat eating low-carb. But every time someone even mentions low-carb here, it is assumed they/we all believe the same magic.

If someone here posts that its impossible to get fat on a low-carb diet, I don't object to correct them on the science. I just hate when people go the other extreme and start bashing the entire diet just because someone is making incorrect statements about the science.

And if you pay attention to the same threads, there are lots of people who beleive in the magic. Like oh i went low carb to prevent insulin spikes and now eat lots of protein or yesterday someone was talking about how fructose turns right to fat and is not used by the body at all. There is so much garbage on both sides of the arguments, because you see just as much ignorance and stupidity on the anti low carb side as well

I'm not ruling out insulin quite yet. I don't think its the only thing, but I certainly think it matters.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/83/6/1911.full

I've actually been waiting for someone to bring that study up, my two main issues with it, were a 24hr food diary recall to est a baseline and the use of BIA for bf testing. But this also begs the question, seeing as that was done in '98 why hasn't it been widely marketed for weight loss and why haven't similar products in the same vein been created and marketed for weight loss?

MaddameKat

I have been on it a week, i thought about starting it in Jan but balked at the idea of no oatmeal in the morning.

I don't feel physically any different but i am always am under my cals which i find helpful and i feel metally better that i eat foods that are much better for me. I don't care if people think if its a fad. I feel that for me its is better that where i was... trying to eat clean but sneaking takeout in more often than not as SO would tempt me. so far i have had 2 mini mini brownies and otherwise no slips. I still eat yogurt and cheese as they have no affect on me. either way i am giving it til mid march and then reviewing. I like that fact that even if i mess up my diet will still be clean!

Edit: I should also say that grains and sugar give me a sexy 9 months preggers bloat look.. without them i look normal ( well fat but not bloated!):laugh:

Marll

its trash..like all fad diets.

we are not cavemen..we have evolved since then..and have different dietary needs

i'm not on it but i disagree. there are some good things about it. eating foods in their natural state is good. not eating processed foods is good. i may not agree with all of it but i don't think "it's trash"

But that's not paleo so to speak, that's just eating better quality foods. Paleo actually eliminates other things that are healthy like grains (corn, maize, barley, rice, oats etc) , salt, dairy etc and even legumes! Madness!

Except that grains are found to be decidedly not healthy based on mounting research. It may still be in its infancy, but we'll see in the coming years that all the wheat, corn, legumes and other other grains are really a detriment to the human body. Rice is one of the few that is decidedly neutral from what I've been reading, neither good nor bad, it just IS.

taso42

its trash..like all fad diets.

we are not cavemen..we have evolved since then..and have different dietary needs

i'm not on it but i disagree. there are some good things about it. eating foods in their natural state is good. not eating processed foods is good. i may not agree with all of it but i don't think "it's trash"

But that's not paleo so to speak, that's just eating better quality foods. Paleo actually eliminates other things that are healthy like grains (corn, maize, barley, rice, oats etc) , salt, dairy etc and even legumes! Madness!

Except that grains are found to be decidedly not healthy based on mounting research. It may still be in its infancy, but we'll see in the coming years that all the wheat, corn, legumes and other other grains are really a detriment to the human body. Rice is one of the few that is decidedly neutral from what I've been reading, neither good nor bad, it just IS.

and so it goes, ad nauseum

Marll

I think for short term to clean out your body of impurities in your diet it's awesome, long term it's expensive, time consuming and you will miss bread. Lifestyle change is much easier.

I'm not sure how it's more expensive? I've been eating like this more or less for just short of a year and my grocery bill went DOWN by about $150/mo. I don't miss bread at all, though occasionally will make bread with almond flour and other ingredients that are not grain based and be happy. I eat it and don't get the craving for MORE bread.

And how is a lifestyle change easier? Going this direction is a lifestyle change in itself. Paleo/Primal is more than just food, it's trying to really think about your food sources, making good decisions and buying from local farms whenever possible. Its about getting enough rest and exercise together and trying to reconnect with nature. If I was a vegan saying the same things people would think that I'm a genius.

Marll

bump, these threads are always fun to read

Damn straight, debate is fun :laugh:

3dogsrunning

I think for short term to clean out your body of impurities in your diet it's awesome, long term it's expensive, time consuming and you will miss bread. Lifestyle change is much easier.

I'm not sure how it's more expensive? I've been eating like this more or less for just short of a year and my grocery bill went DOWN by about $150/mo. I don't miss bread at all, though occasionally will make bread with almond flour and other ingredients that are not grain based and be happy. I eat it and don't get the craving for MORE bread.

And how is a lifestyle change easier? Going this direction is a lifestyle change in itself. Paleo/Primal is more than just food, it's trying to really think about your food sources, making good decisions and buying from local farms whenever possible. Its about getting enough rest and exercise together and trying to reconnect with nature. If I was a vegan saying the same things people would think that I'm a genius.

I don't know where you are, but here, local meat is much more expensive than regular supermarket meat. Grass fed butter and other things like that that I have seen people who follow this diet eat are outrageous in price. Vegetables are also more expensive unless I can get them at the Farmer's market when they are available. Last year was a bad year, so it wasn't as easy.

You don't have to eat paleo to reconsider your food sources. I support local farms for a number of reasons but I don't eat Paleo. I also wonder how sustainable the paleo diet is environmentally. I can do everything you have said and still eat grains from my local farms.

Sidesteal

based on mounting research

Can you share any of it?

LelliAmi

it sounds gross to me. i think it's important for people to do what's healthy overall, not what helps lose a bit of weight. i'm a vegetarian so i eat lots of whole grains, colourful veggies, fruits and lots of nuts, legumes and soy products. (and contrary to popular belief, soy is not bad for you. it's a real bean from a real plant) i also drink a lot of tea...

LelliAmi

"A 2011 ranking by US News & World Report, involving a panel of 22 experts, ranked the Paleo diet lowest of the 20 diets evaluated based on factors including health, weight-loss and ease of following."

I just found that when i looked up the paleo diet....so I would not recommend it.

UponThisRock

You don't have to eat paleo to reconsider your food sources. I support local farms for a number of reasons but I don't eat Paleo. I also wonder how sustainable the paleo diet is environmentally. I can do everything you have said and still eat grains from my local farms.

There are 7 billion people on earth. You're not feeding them all without grains.

foxbat2828

All of this discussion about the paleo diet "frightens and confuses" me.

Sorry, couldn't resist a Keyrock reference. :bigsmile:

skywa

I think its too tough to maintain forever. I mean how on earth are you seriously meant to get enough calcium and iron in from that diet when it pretty much bans legumes and dairy and even grains?

You're talking of eliminating essential foods for a modern human beings diet to sustain healthy existence and function. You're talking about taking away things and foods people enjoy regularly which never affected their health and weight loss in the past.

Most people get their iron from red meat, legumes (beans etc) and wholegrains and their calcium from the same sources and dairy. Plus calcium in dairy is known to help reduce the amount of fat absorbed by the body and when working out, you need more iron and calcium to support your blood and bones. Especially choosing low fat dairy options is great.

We are no longer cavemen, we don't need to devolve to this. We just need to eat less, move more and eat better quality foods in the right proportions.

It's the same with people doing this low carbs rubbish.

It's not sustainable or healthy and leaves you feeling wiped out, especially if you work out hard.

In my eyes, before all these rubbishy fad diets came in force, people managed to lose weight in other ways and you don't need some con of a principle/idea to help you lose weight. You need commitment and discipline and not waste your money on somebody cashing in on your naivety.

There are culture around the world that don't even have the option to eat such foods, and survive just find. Nomadic people around the world living TODAY live on meat, berrys, and nuts alone and are perfectly healthy.

Not to mention it takes thousands of years to great noticeable evolutionary changes in adaptability in a species diet. Our species just isn't that old.