Paleo Diet
Replies
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Didn't the father of the Paleo diet say something to the effect of, "Our ancestors had to eat this way to stay in shape so that they could run away from the Dinosaurs that were always chasing them?" I'm sure I'm only paraphrasing... but - I can't take this stuff seriously after that.... LOL!
But seriously, ANY DIET that forbids you to eat something, is just a diet and not a maintainable lifestyle. If you can do something like this for a month or so and have it help you cut out processed crap - thats great, but really - are you going to never eat a potato for the rest of your life?
I prefer to lose weight the old fashioned way, moderation.
Hey, good for you! But I don't see anyone coming here minimizing or condescending to your decision. Follow your own path with integrity but why do you feel it's your place to ridicule someone elses?
No condescending - just the truth. He really did say that - but, then later recanted when someone called him out on the utter lack of knowledge of human history. I mean, from someone who is supposed to be an expert in anthropology, its telling when he didn't even know that humans and dinosaurs did not ever coexist together and fact lived what - some 2 million years apart?0 -
Yeah, I get that. But who are you to be critical of a paleo diet? Have you done it? You are just giving your opinion but you are doing it in a minimizing and condecending way. If you choose not to do a Paleo diet fine. State your reasons and live with your choice. You have attempted to judge and ridicule and "paraphase" to suite your agenda. My suggestion is do the research and speak from knowledge or be silent. Your words are indicative of your knowledge. A little bit is dangerous.0
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I have a hormonal issue, PCOS, and I am about 90% paleo. I do not eat grains, rice or oats. I feel fantastic. I have been very active for years, and never could lose a pound. I feel so fantastic.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with lean meats, fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds. I choose to stay around 1500 calories as well.0 -
I've been doing a lot of reading, research on this. I'm intrigued, and I"m trying it, with some modification (some dairy) for the next month. Nerd Fitness - nerdfitness.com and Mark Sisson's blog marksdailyapple.com as well as his book The Primal Blueprint are good resources for information. I particularly like Nerd Fitness. Not every way of eating is for every person and let's face it, not everyone can adhere to anything 100% - that is where common sense, modifcations and what "works for you" comes in. Most of the principles of Paleo are not all that extreme from what I"ve been doing such as no processed "JUNK" foods, nor are they particularly unique. For example, the glycemic index , the effect of simple carbs on insulin response within our bodies - is accepted nutritional science. I've never been a protein eater - always a carb girl. For the past year, I"ve steadfastly upped my protein, lowered my carbs and I've never felt better, nor been in better shape. So, taking it a step further in the direction of Paleo seems natural to me. A Paleo-type nutritional plan paired with heavy lifting just makes good sense to me. We will see : )
Jen0 -
But seriously, ANY DIET that forbids you to eat something, is just a diet and not a maintainable lifestyle. If you can do something like this for a month or so and have it help you cut out processed crap - thats great, but really - are you going to never eat a potato for the rest of your life?
I prefer to lose weight the old fashioned way, moderation.
Forbid? Honestly, we are all adults. We can all eat whatever we want. Also, it's hilarious that you chose the phrase, "lose weight the old fashioned way" considering the context of this convo.0 -
Yeah, I get that. But who are you to be critical of a paleo diet? Have you done it? You are just giving your opinion but you are doing it in a minimizing and condecending way. If you choose not to do a Paleo diet fine. State your reasons and live with your choice. You have attempted to judge and ridicule and "paraphase" to suite your agenda. My suggestion is do the research and speak from knowledge or be silent. Your words are indicative of your knowledge. A little bit is dangerous.
No, I have not done the Paleo diet - because when I was researching it, I found out that the man who created it based on "scientific fact", didn't know anything about science. I only paraphrased because I could not remember EXACTLY what he had said , but I'm sure if you'd like to see his exact words you could look them up for yourself. (As you not so politely suggested to another member.)
Furthermore, after much research - there is little to no evidence that humans in to Paleo area had evolved suffiecently enough to have the tools and resources need to be anything other then scavengers, eating whatever they could find, including grains and root vegetables. Also - they likely did not have tools sophisticated enough until the VERY end of the Paleo era to hunt live game - and several dig sites have found that the meat the Paleo cavemen did eat was from the weak, the very young, the very old, and the already dead. Road kill anyone? I do beilive that there was even recently evidence uncovered that the Paleo peoples were milling and grinding grains and creating basic cereals. Kind of blows the whole - no grains thing right out of the water... Along with the all meat thing... Unless you want to eat sick or dead animals.
Also, it should be noted that the Paleo people were largely nomads - and adapted to whatever land they found themselves on - eating anything that the land provided them without terrible amounts of effort, including grains.
And - to put one final nail in your "knowledgeable" coffin - Paleo people RARELY ever lived past 30-40 years of age, long before evidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, and other high saturated fat diet related health problems would have been easily detected in fossils.
PS: The Paleo diet was also considered the LEAST healthy and MOST dangerous of 24 diets that were examined by a panel of experts not too long ago - end of last year if I remember correctly.
I suggest you do some research, as it seems I have done enough for myself - and other then telling me to be silent (and demeaning myself and other members), I haven't seen any evidence of your vast wealth of knowledge on this subject.
I am an informed and educated consumer - Who are you?0 -
I've been doing a lot of reading, research on this. I'm intrigued, and I"m trying it, with some modification (some dairy) for the next month. Nerd Fitness - nerdfitness.com and Mark Sisson's blog marksdailyapple.com as well as his book The Primal Blueprint are good resources for information. I particularly like Nerd Fitness. Not every way of eating is for every person and let's face it, not everyone can adhere to anything 100% - that is where common sense, modifcations and what "works for you" comes in. Most of the principles of Paleo are not all that extreme from what I"ve been doing such as no processed "JUNK" foods, nor are they particularly unique. For example, the glycemic index , the effect of simple carbs on insulin response within our bodies - is accepted nutritional science. I've never been a protein eater - always a carb girl. For the past year, I"ve steadfastly upped my protein, lowered my carbs and I've never felt better, nor been in better shape. So, taking it a step further in the direction of Paleo seems natural to me. A Paleo-type nutritional plan paired with heavy lifting just makes good sense to me. We will see : )
Jen
A very thoughtful and considered response. I've kind of followed a similar path. It's helped with allergies in particular. The inflammation I've dealt with for years is reduced almost totally. It has hugely helpful to me and has improved my health and well being. May not be for everyone and that's understandable but it can benefit some of us.
On the workout side, I've followed The Primal Blueprint with Move Slowly Often(low impact cardio, Lift Heavy Things (Strength Training), Sprint Occasioanly ( HIIT). It really been great and sustainable for me.0 -
Bump0
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But seriously, ANY DIET that forbids you to eat something, is just a diet and not a maintainable lifestyle. If you can do something like this for a month or so and have it help you cut out processed crap - thats great, but really - are you going to never eat a potato for the rest of your life?
I prefer to lose weight the old fashioned way, moderation.
Forbid? Honestly, we are all adults. We can all eat whatever we want. Also, it's hilarious that you chose the phrase, "lose weight the old fashioned way" considering the context of this convo.
That is quite ironic... Though not truly, since obesity in a relatively new issue in human history. Our ancestors didn't need to lose weight, they were always active, survived on very few calories, and used what amounts of energy they had to find resources for more energy. We are (and I mean modern humans) really the first humans to have TOO much food.0 -
Yeah, I get that. But who are you to be critical of a paleo diet? Have you done it? You are just giving your opinion but you are doing it in a minimizing and condecending way. If you choose not to do a Paleo diet fine. State your reasons and live with your choice. You have attempted to judge and ridicule and "paraphase" to suite your agenda. My suggestion is do the research and speak from knowledge or be silent. Your words are indicative of your knowledge. A little bit is dangerous.
No, I have not done the Paleo diet - because when I was researching it, I found out that the man who created it based on "scientific fact", didn't know anything about science. I only paraphrased because I could not remember EXACTLY what he had said , but I'm sure if you'd like to see his exact words you could look them up for yourself. (As you not so politely suggested to another member.)
Furthermore, after much research - there is little to no evidence that humans in to Paleo area had evolved suffiecently enough to have the tools and resources need to be anything other then scavengers, eating whatever they could find, including grains and root vegetables. Also - they likely did not have tools sophisticated enough until the VERY end of the Paleo era to hunt live game - and several dig sites have found that the meat the Paleo cavemen did eat was from the weak, the very young, the very old, and the already dead. Road kill anyone? I do beilive that there was even recently evidence uncovered that the Paleo peoples were milling and grinding grains and creating basic cereals. Kind of blows the whole - no grains thing right out of the water... Along with the all meat thing... Unless you want to eat sick or dead animals.
Also, it should be noted that the Paleo people were largely nomads - and adapted to whatever land they found themselves on - eating anything that the land provided them without terrible amounts of effort, including grains.
And - to put one final nail in your "knowledgeable" coffin - Paleo people RARELY ever lived past 30-40 years of age, long before evidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, and other high saturated fat diet related health problems would have been easily detected in fossils.
PS: The Paleo diet was also considered the LEAST healthy and MOST dangerous of 24 diets that were examined by a panel of experts not too long ago - end of last year if I remember correctly.
I suggest you do some research, as it seems I have done enough for myself - and other then telling me to be silent (and demeaning myself and other members), I haven't seen any evidence of your vast wealth of knowledge on this subject.
I am an informed and educated consumer - Who are you?
And which panel of experts was that? You've yet to cite a source for anyting other than vague references.
So, you've chosen not to do the diet. Duly noted. So so you feel it's your duty to come here and convcince others? If so, do more than refer to some panel of unamed experts and paraphrase people. In the footnotes of mark Sisson's The Primal Blueprint, he lists the sources for his research. He even expressed relutance to publish with an eye toward caution. There are many sources for the basis of his theories. You disrespect the intelligence and work of people who have labored for the good of others with your inuendo. You state half facts, out of context stements and opinions as though they are truth.
As I previously stated to the other poster you felt I was impolite to, do it or don't. Who appointed you the savior of those of us that would?0 -
Yeah, I get that. But who are you to be critical of a paleo diet? Have you done it? You are just giving your opinion but you are doing it in a minimizing and condecending way. If you choose not to do a Paleo diet fine. State your reasons and live with your choice. You have attempted to judge and ridicule and "paraphase" to suite your agenda. My suggestion is do the research and speak from knowledge or be silent. Your words are indicative of your knowledge. A little bit is dangerous.
No, I have not done the Paleo diet - because when I was researching it, I found out that the man who created it based on "scientific fact", didn't know anything about science. I only paraphrased because I could not remember EXACTLY what he had said , but I'm sure if you'd like to see his exact words you could look them up for yourself. (As you not so politely suggested to another member.)
Furthermore, after much research - there is little to no evidence that humans in to Paleo area had evolved suffiecently enough to have the tools and resources need to be anything other then scavengers, eating whatever they could find, including grains and root vegetables. Also - they likely did not have tools sophisticated enough until the VERY end of the Paleo era to hunt live game - and several dig sites have found that the meat the Paleo cavemen did eat was from the weak, the very young, the very old, and the already dead. Road kill anyone? I do beilive that there was even recently evidence uncovered that the Paleo peoples were milling and grinding grains and creating basic cereals. Kind of blows the whole - no grains thing right out of the water... Along with the all meat thing... Unless you want to eat sick or dead animals.
Also, it should be noted that the Paleo people were largely nomads - and adapted to whatever land they found themselves on - eating anything that the land provided them without terrible amounts of effort, including grains.
And - to put one final nail in your "knowledgeable" coffin - Paleo people RARELY ever lived past 30-40 years of age, long before evidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, and other high saturated fat diet related health problems would have been easily detected in fossils.
PS: The Paleo diet was also considered the LEAST healthy and MOST dangerous of 24 diets that were examined by a panel of experts not too long ago - end of last year if I remember correctly.
I suggest you do some research, as it seems I have done enough for myself - and other then telling me to be silent (and demeaning myself and other members), I haven't seen any evidence of your vast wealth of knowledge on this subject.
I am an informed and educated consumer - Who are you?
And which panel of experts was that? You've yet to cite a source for anyting other than vague references.
So, you've chosen not to do the diet. Duly noted. So so you feel it's your duty to come here and convcince others? If so, do more than refer to some panel of unamed experts and paraphrase people. In the footnotes of mark Sisson's The Primal Blueprint, he lists the sources for his research. He even expressed relutance to publish with an eye toward caution. There are many sources for the basis of his theories. You disrespect the intelligence and work of people who have labored for the good of others with your inuendo. You state half facts, out of context stements and opinions as though they are truth.
As I previously stated to the other poster you felt I was impolite to, do it or don't. Who appointed you the savior of those of us that would?
I have yet to see you cite your sources and have anything other then condescending remarks towards anyone who disagrees with you and explains why.
To quote you (not paraphase) "Google...do the legwork".
For everyone else who would like ACTUAL scientific data on why the Paleo diet is anything but scientifically based on our Paleolithic ancestors you can begin your research here:
Study on diets featuring a panel of 22 experts who placed Paleo dead last. http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets
Study on grain milling and processing in the Paleo age: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/08/1006993107
One of thousands of studies on the early human diet, specifically the Paleo age :http://www.ivu.org/history/early/ancestors.html
A study on the life expectancy of the Paleo peoples and diet: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=814480&jid=&volumeId=&issueId=01&aid=814476&fulltextType=MR&fileId=S00296651060000120 -
Going to bed right. Good night! Be back in the AM. About time you antied up. It's on!
BTW, on my primary source, I've listed it multiple times. The Primal Blueprint! Mark Sisson is the author. His blog where he lists all his references is Mark's Daily Apple.
Help yourself. That's where I'll be mining tomorrow. Feel free to beat me to it. I'll be sleeping until I'm rested, eating a nice 3 egg omelet breakfast with leeks (from organic free range, non hormone, non antibiotic chickens of course), some Bullet Proof Coffee and then getting back with my research. Have a great night!
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I read about paleo last night for about an hour and this site has a bunch of links that explain why you should and shouldn't eat things
http://www.paleoplan.com0 -
Yeah, I get that. But who are you to be critical of a paleo diet? Have you done it? You are just giving your opinion but you are doing it in a minimizing and condecending way. If you choose not to do a Paleo diet fine. State your reasons and live with your choice. You have attempted to judge and ridicule and "paraphase" to suite your agenda. My suggestion is do the research and speak from knowledge or be silent. Your words are indicative of your knowledge. A little bit is dangerous.
No, I have not done the Paleo diet - because when I was researching it, I found out that the man who created it based on "scientific fact", didn't know anything about science. I only paraphrased because I could not remember EXACTLY what he had said , but I'm sure if you'd like to see his exact words you could look them up for yourself. (As you not so politely suggested to another member.)
Furthermore, after much research - there is little to no evidence that humans in to Paleo area had evolved suffiecently enough to have the tools and resources need to be anything other then scavengers, eating whatever they could find, including grains and root vegetables. Also - they likely did not have tools sophisticated enough until the VERY end of the Paleo era to hunt live game - and several dig sites have found that the meat the Paleo cavemen did eat was from the weak, the very young, the very old, and the already dead. Road kill anyone? I do beilive that there was even recently evidence uncovered that the Paleo peoples were milling and grinding grains and creating basic cereals. Kind of blows the whole - no grains thing right out of the water... Along with the all meat thing... Unless you want to eat sick or dead animals.
Also, it should be noted that the Paleo people were largely nomads - and adapted to whatever land they found themselves on - eating anything that the land provided them without terrible amounts of effort, including grains.
And - to put one final nail in your "knowledgeable" coffin - Paleo people RARELY ever lived past 30-40 years of age, long before evidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, osteoporosis, and other high saturated fat diet related health problems would have been easily detected in fossils.
PS: The Paleo diet was also considered the LEAST healthy and MOST dangerous of 24 diets that were examined by a panel of experts not too long ago - end of last year if I remember correctly.
I suggest you do some research, as it seems I have done enough for myself - and other then telling me to be silent (and demeaning myself and other members), I haven't seen any evidence of your vast wealth of knowledge on this subject.
I am an informed and educated consumer - Who are you?
And which panel of experts was that? You've yet to cite a source for anyting other than vague references.
So, you've chosen not to do the diet. Duly noted. So so you feel it's your duty to come here and convcince others? If so, do more than refer to some panel of unamed experts and paraphrase people. In the footnotes of mark Sisson's The Primal Blueprint, he lists the sources for his research. He even expressed relutance to publish with an eye toward caution. There are many sources for the basis of his theories. You disrespect the intelligence and work of people who have labored for the good of others with your inuendo. You state half facts, out of context stements and opinions as though they are truth.
As I previously stated to the other poster you felt I was impolite to, do it or don't. Who appointed you the savior of those of us that would?
I have yet to see you cite your sources and have anything other then condescending remarks towards anyone who disagrees with you and explains why.
To quote you (not paraphase) "Google...do the legwork".
For everyone else who would like ACTUAL scientific data on why the Paleo diet is anything but scientifically based on our Paleolithic ancestors you can begin your research here:
Study on diets featuring a panel of 22 experts who placed Paleo dead last. http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets
Study on grain milling and processing in the Paleo age: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/08/1006993107
One of thousands of studies on the early human diet, specifically the Paleo age :http://www.ivu.org/history/early/ancestors.html
A study on the life expectancy of the Paleo peoples and diet: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=814480&jid=&volumeId=&issueId=01&aid=814476&fulltextType=MR&fileId=S0029665106000012
It seems to me that most of your opposition to a Paleo diet is not with the diet/lifestyle itself, but with history. Honestly, while it's interesting and nice to know things like what Paleolithic humans ate and where the diet got it's inspiration, isn't the important thing whether or not the diet works? Whether this kind of lifestyle works for you or someone else has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what Paleolithic people really ate and how long they lived, and you can't find it out without trying it. (I realize that what they ate impacts how we should eat in terms of how we evolved to eat, I just mean that you seem to be getting bogged down in the anthropology/history rather than dealing with the actual diet today). As for Paleolithic humans dying fairly early, have you seen the conditions they lived in? Any form of trauma (broken or injured limb, etc.) would have been a death sentence, and there were predators that would eat them, etc. Studies have shown that Paleo humans had few diseases like we do today due to their diet; that doesn't mean other things couldn't kill them (like predators or a fall off a cliff).
Start talking about the actual diet; I've yet to see you actually give an argument against eating meat, veggies, fruit, nuts, seeds and no grain or legumes.0 -
Some aspects of the paleo diet are useful - obviously we need to focus on eating a more diverse set of vegetables and fruits, nuts, legumes, tubers, lean meats, etc. That's clearly a huge benefit of the diet (given that people ARE indeed trying to mimic what hunter-gatherers ate - simply eating the same old meat and vegetable every day would not reflect a hunter-gatherer diet. Keep in mind that research suggests they did much more gathering than hunting, and that most of their calories came from plant products and small animals, like reptiles, rodents, insects, etc.)
However, aside from allergies, there is no legitimate reason to completely eliminate grains and dairy from your diet. It is true that the shift from hunter-gatherer groups to agricultural societies diminished health because of the dependency on grains. The issue was, these societies were basing their entire diet around grains - obviously, you should not exclusively eat grains, or primarily eat grains like many populations have in the past. But, eating them in moderation - paired with meats, vegetables, and fruits - is not an issue. Similarly, there is little reason to abandon dairy products - in the past and today, they are an excellent source of protein, fat, and calcium. Most modern people fulfill their calcium requirements by eating dairy products, so giving them up could potentially result in a deficit.
Additionally, arguing that the body is not well-adapted to eat grains and dairy is a bit short-sighted. Our bodies are constantly adapting to new challenges. That is why the ability to digest lactose exists at all. The "natural" condition is actually lactose-intolerance, but societies with a history of pastoralism evolved the genetic ability to digest lactose in adulthood - just within the past 10kya or so! Yes, in general, we are physically the same as our hunter-gatherer ancestors - but, we have changed in some ways. Our bodies adapted so that we could include a new rich nutritional source (dairy), thereby increasing survivability.
The paleo diet has some good things to offer, but overall, I definitely would never advocate it. I apologize for the rant, but as a biological anthropology grad student, I kind of had to throw in my two cents
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Didn't the father of the Paleo diet say something to the effect of, "Our ancestors had to eat this way to stay in shape so that they could run away from the Dinosaurs that were always chasing them?" I'm sure I'm only paraphrasing... but - I can't take this stuff seriously after that.... LOL!
But seriously, ANY DIET that forbids you to eat something, is just a diet and not a maintainable lifestyle. If you can do something like this for a month or so and have it help you cut out processed crap - thats great, but really - are you going to never eat a potato for the rest of your life?
I prefer to lose weight the old fashioned way, moderation.
Hey, good for you! But I don't see anyone coming here minimizing or condescending to your decision. Follow your own path with integrity but why do you feel it's your place to ridicule someone elses?
No condescending - just the truth. He really did say that - but, then later recanted when someone called him out on the utter lack of knowledge of human history. I mean, from someone who is supposed to be an expert in anthropology, its telling when he didn't even know that humans and dinosaurs did not ever coexist together and fact lived what - some 2 million years apart?
Ooooh man, I hope you were joking on the 2 million years apart bit. Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, and humans have existed for no more than 200,000 years, lol.0 -
Some aspects of the paleo diet are useful - obviously we need to focus on eating a more diverse set of vegetables and fruits, nuts, legumes, tubers, lean meats, etc. That's clearly a huge benefit of the diet (given that people ARE indeed trying to mimic what hunter-gatherers ate - simply eating the same old meat and vegetable every day would not reflect a hunter-gatherer diet. Keep in mind that research suggests they did much more gathering than hunting, and that most of their calories came from plant products and small animals, like reptiles, rodents, insects, etc.)
However, aside from allergies, there is no legitimate reason to completely eliminate grains and dairy from your diet. It is true that the shift from hunter-gatherer groups to agricultural societies diminished health because of the dependency on grains. The issue was, these societies were basing their entire diet around grains - obviously, you should not exclusively eat grains, or primarily eat grains like many populations have in the past. But, eating them in moderation - paired with meats, vegetables, and fruits - is not an issue. Similarly, there is little reason to abandon dairy products - in the past and today, they are an excellent source of protein, fat, and calcium. Most modern people fulfill their calcium requirements by eating dairy products, so giving them up could potentially result in a deficit.
Additionally, arguing that the body is not well-adapted to eat grains and dairy is a bit short-sighted. Our bodies are constantly adapting to new challenges. That is why the ability to digest lactose exists at all. The "natural" condition is actually lactose-intolerance, but societies with a history of pastoralism evolved the genetic ability to digest lactose in adulthood - just within the past 10kya or so! Yes, in general, we are physically the same as our hunter-gatherer ancestors - but, we have changed in some ways. Our bodies adapted so that we could include a new rich nutritional source (dairy), thereby increasing survivability.
The paleo diet has some good things to offer, but overall, I definitely would never advocate it. I apologize for the rant, but as a biological anthropology grad student, I kind of had to throw in my two cents
A very well presented and balanced point of view. I didn't see it as a "rant" at all. I would only partially disagree with the grain statements and diary statements. I think the grain thing is very individual. The are many that do have issues with grains as eveidenced by the gluten intolerance and celiac issues that are out there. Some don't have as much sensitivity. For those that do, myself included, the Paleo/ Primal/ Hunter Gatherer style diet works well. There is also the phytate and mineral absorbtion issue as evidenced by the preponderence of mineral defeciency in areas of the world where grains are the majority of the diet. There are some ways to minimize this by presoaking rice or wheat in vinegar that neutralizes a good portion of the phytates. So, it's really an individual thing from person to person.
I would present pretty much the same argument for lactose. The whole dairy thing is somewhat of a gray area in general. Some who follow this diet are against it. Some, like Mark Sisson, are more moderate. There is also a distiction in the difference between bovine dairy and goat and sheep dairy, the later being for more friendly for digestion. Also, there is some agreement that fermented dairy is very positive. Again, there are extremes in those who follow the diet that would not agree but a I follow a moderate path that involves goat milk and goat milk cheese and yogurt. I make it myself from raw goat milk and digest it well. I also have issues with Cow's milk digestibility and inflammation causeing flu like symptoms and bloating. Again, some people and people groups in different regions of the world have adapted just fine to dairy, like say the Masi is Africa. Others have issues.
Your .02 was appreciated!0 -
It seems to me that most of your opposition to a Paleo diet is not with the diet/lifestyle itself, but with history. Honestly, while it's interesting and nice to know things like what Paleolithic humans ate and where the diet got it's inspiration, isn't the important thing whether or not the diet works? Whether this kind of lifestyle works for you or someone else has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what Paleolithic people really ate and how long they lived, and you can't find it out without trying it. (I realize that what they ate impacts how we should eat in terms of how we evolved to eat, I just mean that you seem to be getting bogged down in the anthropology/history rather than dealing with the actual diet today). As for Paleolithic humans dying fairly early, have you seen the conditions they lived in? Any form of trauma (broken or injured limb, etc.) would have been a death sentence, and there were predators that would eat them, etc. Studies have shown that Paleo humans had few diseases like we do today due to their diet; that doesn't mean other things couldn't kill them (like predators or a fall off a cliff).
Start talking about the actual diet; I've yet to see you actually give an argument against eating meat, veggies, fruit, nuts, seeds and no grain or legumes.
Totally agree! Very well put!!0 -
Didn't the father of the Paleo diet say something to the effect of, "Our ancestors had to eat this way to stay in shape so that they could run away from the Dinosaurs that were always chasing them?" I'm sure I'm only paraphrasing... but - I can't take this stuff seriously after that.... LOL!
But seriously, ANY DIET that forbids you to eat something, is just a diet and not a maintainable lifestyle. If you can do something like this for a month or so and have it help you cut out processed crap - thats great, but really - are you going to never eat a potato for the rest of your life?
I prefer to lose weight the old fashioned way, moderation.
Hey, good for you! But I don't see anyone coming here minimizing or condescending to your decision. Follow your own path with integrity but why do you feel it's your place to ridicule someone elses?
No condescending - just the truth. He really did say that - but, then later recanted when someone called him out on the utter lack of knowledge of human history. I mean, from someone who is supposed to be an expert in anthropology, its telling when he didn't even know that humans and dinosaurs did not ever coexist together and fact lived what - some 2 million years apart?
Ooooh man, I hope you were joking on the 2 million years apart bit. Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, and humans have existed for no more than 200,000 years, lol.
Wait, are you saying she may have made a mistake or misspoken?0 -
I have yet to see you cite your sources and have anything other then condescending remarks towards anyone who disagrees with you and explains why.
To quote you (not paraphase) "Google...do the legwork".
For everyone else who would like ACTUAL scientific data on why the Paleo diet is anything but scientifically based on our Paleolithic ancestors you can begin your research here:
Study on diets featuring a panel of 22 experts who placed Paleo dead last. http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets
Study on grain milling and processing in the Paleo age: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/08/1006993107
One of thousands of studies on the early human diet, specifically the Paleo age :http://www.ivu.org/history/early/ancestors.html
A study on the life expectancy of the Paleo peoples and diet: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=814480&jid=&volumeId=&issueId=01&aid=814476&fulltextType=MR&fileId=S0029665106000012
Went through your links.
The US News one does not identify who their experts were so it's hard to give it any real credibility. The whole article read more like a popularity contest. Also, I found this quote from one of the unidentified "experts" interesting.
“A true Paleo diet might be a great option: very lean, pure meats, lots of wild plants,” said one expert—quickly adding, however, that duplicating such a regimen in modern times would be difficult.
OK, so it might be difficult. I don't happen to find it so. Some might. That might make it "unpopular". As I've preciously stated, if you don't wish to follow it, don't. Nobody is coming into a thread where you are advocating a "conventional" plan and criticizing it as you have done here. As a source I would view this link s a D+. US News has never been noted as bastion of great nutritional info and they don't ID thier "Experts". I'm sure you disagree. Feel free. That's why America is a great country.
Your next 2 links seems to prove that early man ate lots of plant food including occaisionally, grains. Ok. Your point would be?? Lot's of clean, chemical and pesticide free, non GMO plant foods make up the majority of the Paleo/ Primal/ Hunter Gatherer diet. Did you not know that? That's not news.
Your last one on life expectancy has already been addressed. The only thing I'd add is there was also the issue of infant mortality which was very high due to the harsh living conditions and lack of available medical treatment.
Overall, if these links are what you base your "against" case on, it's weak at best in my opinion. Others can read them and decide for themselves.
Several links and websites have been referenced but I haven't seen you refer to any of them so I can only assume you haven't read them based on your lack of comment. I'm going to let Dr. Terry Wahls make the case for my point of view.
http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxIowaCity-Dr-Terry-Wahls-Min Her case study is particularly compeling.
There is also this study.
Caspari, R. and S-H Lee (2004). Older age becomes common late in human evolution. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101:10895-10900. (Subject of that issue's commentary by Rosenberg, K. (2004), Living longer: Information revolution, population, expansion, and modern human origins. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101:10847-10858. An Editor's Choice for Science: Hanson, B. Ancient silver generations? Science 305:312.
I'd also suggest these websites for gathering info:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz1o4j6oP3h
http://paleodiet.com/ This one just has scores of additional links.0 -
I thought about trying the Paleo way of eating. The basic idea seems sound.
However, I am loosing quite well just watching my macros/calories and excercising. I am worried that I won't get the carbs I need for running if I try paleo. I feel great and have tons of energy like never before. Maybe someday I will try it.0 -
I thought about trying the Paleo way of eating. The basic idea seems sound.
However, I am loosing quite well just watching my macros/calories and excercising. I am worried that I won't get the carbs I need for running if I try paleo. I feel great and have tons of energy like never before. Maybe someday I will try it.
If you are worried about carbs, the paleo way of eating recommends sweet potatoes. Paleo isn't necessarily a low carb diet!0 -
Some aspects of the paleo diet are useful - obviously we need to focus on eating a more diverse set of vegetables and fruits, nuts, legumes, tubers, lean meats, etc. That's clearly a huge benefit of the diet (given that people ARE indeed trying to mimic what hunter-gatherers ate - simply eating the same old meat and vegetable every day would not reflect a hunter-gatherer diet. Keep in mind that research suggests they did much more gathering than hunting, and that most of their calories came from plant products and small animals, like reptiles, rodents, insects, etc.)
However, aside from allergies, there is no legitimate reason to completely eliminate grains and dairy from your diet. It is true that the shift from hunter-gatherer groups to agricultural societies diminished health because of the dependency on grains. The issue was, these societies were basing their entire diet around grains - obviously, you should not exclusively eat grains, or primarily eat grains like many populations have in the past. But, eating them in moderation - paired with meats, vegetables, and fruits - is not an issue. Similarly, there is little reason to abandon dairy products - in the past and today, they are an excellent source of protein, fat, and calcium. Most modern people fulfill their calcium requirements by eating dairy products, so giving them up could potentially result in a deficit.
Additionally, arguing that the body is not well-adapted to eat grains and dairy is a bit short-sighted. Our bodies are constantly adapting to new challenges. That is why the ability to digest lactose exists at all. The "natural" condition is actually lactose-intolerance, but societies with a history of pastoralism evolved the genetic ability to digest lactose in adulthood - just within the past 10kya or so! Yes, in general, we are physically the same as our hunter-gatherer ancestors - but, we have changed in some ways. Our bodies adapted so that we could include a new rich nutritional source (dairy), thereby increasing survivability.
The paleo diet has some good things to offer, but overall, I definitely would never advocate it. I apologize for the rant, but as a biological anthropology grad student, I kind of had to throw in my two cents
A very well presented and balanced point of view. I didn't see it as a "rant" at all. I would only partially disagree with the grain statements and diary statements. I think the grain thing is very individual. The are many that do have issues with grains as eveidenced by the gluten intolerance and celiac issues that are out there. Some don't have as much sensitivity. For those that do, myself included, the Paleo/ Primal/ Hunter Gatherer style diet works well. There is also the phytate and mineral absorbtion issue as evidenced by the preponderence of mineral defeciency in areas of the world where grains are the majority of the diet. There are some ways to minimize this by presoaking rice or wheat in vinegar that neutralizes a good portion of the phytates. So, it's really an individual thing from person to person.
I would present pretty much the same argument for lactose. The whole dairy thing is somewhat of a gray area in general. Some who follow this diet are against it. Some, like Mark Sisson, are more moderate. There is also a distiction in the difference between bovine dairy and goat and sheep dairy, the later being for more friendly for digestion. Also, there is some agreement that fermented dairy is very positive. Again, there are extremes in those who follow the diet that would not agree but a I follow a moderate path that involves goat milk and goat milk cheese and yogurt. I make it myself from raw goat milk and digest it well. I also have issues with Cow's milk digestibility and inflammation causeing flu like symptoms and bloating. Again, some people and people groups in different regions of the world have adapted just fine to dairy, like say the Masi is Africa. Others have issues.
Your .02 was appreciated!
Good points! I actually meant to mention that it could work for those who do suffer with gluten and lactose intolerance, but for those of us who don't, it doesn't seem necessary.0 -
Didn't the father of the Paleo diet say something to the effect of, "Our ancestors had to eat this way to stay in shape so that they could run away from the Dinosaurs that were always chasing them?" I'm sure I'm only paraphrasing... but - I can't take this stuff seriously after that.... LOL!
But seriously, ANY DIET that forbids you to eat something, is just a diet and not a maintainable lifestyle. If you can do something like this for a month or so and have it help you cut out processed crap - thats great, but really - are you going to never eat a potato for the rest of your life?
I prefer to lose weight the old fashioned way, moderation.
Hey, good for you! But I don't see anyone coming here minimizing or condescending to your decision. Follow your own path with integrity but why do you feel it's your place to ridicule someone elses?
No condescending - just the truth. He really did say that - but, then later recanted when someone called him out on the utter lack of knowledge of human history. I mean, from someone who is supposed to be an expert in anthropology, its telling when he didn't even know that humans and dinosaurs did not ever coexist together and fact lived what - some 2 million years apart?
Ooooh man, I hope you were joking on the 2 million years apart bit. Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, and humans have existed for no more than 200,000 years, lol.
Wait, are you saying she may have made a mistake or misspoken?
Yeah...correct me if I'm wrong, but he/she said that dinosaurs and humans lived 2 million years apart, which is far from accurate0 -
I thought about trying the Paleo way of eating. The basic idea seems sound.
However, I am loosing quite well just watching my macros/calories and excercising. I am worried that I won't get the carbs I need for running if I try paleo. I feel great and have tons of energy like never before. Maybe someday I will try it.
You know, if you are in a good zone and feel great, why mess with it. BTW, the whole low carb thing is often overplayed in relationship to a Hunter/ Gatherer style diet. If doing nothing wildly active and you are at a good weight, you strive to keep them around 150 grams per day. If you are working out heavily and are not trying to burn off fat, you increase them in such a way that you are maintaining energy through your workouts. The key thing is to keep insulin sensitivity high and resistance low. If you are losing effectively, that is not an issue for you.0 -
I thought about trying the Paleo way of eating. The basic idea seems sound.
However, I am loosing quite well just watching my macros/calories and excercising. I am worried that I won't get the carbs I need for running if I try paleo. I feel great and have tons of energy like never before. Maybe someday I will try it.
You know, if you are in a good zone and feel great, why mess with it. BTW, the whole low carb thing is often overplayed in relationship to a Hunter/ Gatherer style diet. If doing nothing wildly active and you are at a good weight, you strive to keep them around 150 grams per day. If you are working out heavily and are not trying to burn off fat, you increase them in such a way that you are maintaining energy through your workouts. The key thing is to keep insulin sensitivity high and resistance low. If you are losing effectively, that is not an issue for you.
I would be concerned about getting enough carbs to run with Paleo as well. Since you are losing weight and have great energy, I would just keep doing whatever you are doing. But if you do decided to do Paleo, I would suggest doing it gradually, or at a time when you are not racing or training.0
This discussion has been closed.
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