Why you wouldn't mix cardio and strenght training
PercivalHackworth
Posts: 1,437 Member
During the strength training, the efforts are rather short and intensive. The glycogen stores (energy stores) are not that much used. Such efforts are produced by the whites fibers (Type 2) which are the quick fibers. A strength training will induce micro-lesions of these fibers, which will be updated, with a bigger volume (HGF hormon activity).
The cardio trainings are long and low-intensity efforts, which mainly stimulates the red fibers (Type 1) which are slow fibers, with a small hypertrophy potential. (Thus a smaller/ slower growth). Such long trainings will use the energy (glycogen) from the muscles. The body's first reaction will be, in order to maintain such effort, to increase the stores' size. That glycogen (energy store) is the main energy source. There in also the intra-muscles fat which will be used as energy.
No matter what training your perform, it remains a "catabolic" one, meaning, during a training, the body destroys (oxydates) elements : Glycogen, Fat, or Amino-acids that are a muscle compound. During a training, the muscle will then have a "self-cannibalism", which is not such a good thing.
Knowing the anabolism, (tissue syntesis) can only work if the energy stores are full. It does then make quite sense that mixing cardio and strength is not a good thing is you want to build muscle... That is even worse if you mix them both in the same day.
How use cardio ?
You would avoid cardio trainings during strength trainings. You will then increase fat use (lipolysis) if the cardio is performed after a strength training, but that would also lead to an increased catabolism, and decrease energy stores, meaning, a delayed anabolism.
Strenght trainings
Require not that much of glycogen, while cardio requires it a lot. Having your energy stores full for an optimized anabolismn you now understand how counter-productive a cardio training would be. (Increased catabolism for a delayed metabolism)
During your rest days, cardio training are fantastic. it helps increasing endurance (VO2 max) but helps in body' soreness recovery, by making the blod circulating across it, so the nutrients. You would just ensure that training wouldn't avoid recovery, because muscles build when you rest. Having too much training/ strength sessions is also counter-productive and lead to over-training. A nice cardio set would be 2 or 3 timers per week at a low intensity, or 1/ 2 times per week max if it is an higher training.
Here is some nasty ****er, who mixed them both during two months, check the picture of my arm - catabolism happened
The cardio trainings are long and low-intensity efforts, which mainly stimulates the red fibers (Type 1) which are slow fibers, with a small hypertrophy potential. (Thus a smaller/ slower growth). Such long trainings will use the energy (glycogen) from the muscles. The body's first reaction will be, in order to maintain such effort, to increase the stores' size. That glycogen (energy store) is the main energy source. There in also the intra-muscles fat which will be used as energy.
No matter what training your perform, it remains a "catabolic" one, meaning, during a training, the body destroys (oxydates) elements : Glycogen, Fat, or Amino-acids that are a muscle compound. During a training, the muscle will then have a "self-cannibalism", which is not such a good thing.
Knowing the anabolism, (tissue syntesis) can only work if the energy stores are full. It does then make quite sense that mixing cardio and strength is not a good thing is you want to build muscle... That is even worse if you mix them both in the same day.
How use cardio ?
You would avoid cardio trainings during strength trainings. You will then increase fat use (lipolysis) if the cardio is performed after a strength training, but that would also lead to an increased catabolism, and decrease energy stores, meaning, a delayed anabolism.
Strenght trainings
Require not that much of glycogen, while cardio requires it a lot. Having your energy stores full for an optimized anabolismn you now understand how counter-productive a cardio training would be. (Increased catabolism for a delayed metabolism)
During your rest days, cardio training are fantastic. it helps increasing endurance (VO2 max) but helps in body' soreness recovery, by making the blod circulating across it, so the nutrients. You would just ensure that training wouldn't avoid recovery, because muscles build when you rest. Having too much training/ strength sessions is also counter-productive and lead to over-training. A nice cardio set would be 2 or 3 timers per week at a low intensity, or 1/ 2 times per week max if it is an higher training.
Here is some nasty ****er, who mixed them both during two months, check the picture of my arm - catabolism happened
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Interesting...so...if I'm, doing full body strength training Monday's Wednesdays, and Fridays, and cardio Tuesdays and Thursdays...resting or light cardio on Sat/Sunday would this be counterproductive? For me, I still have too much body fat, so I think I'm okay if a little muscle is lost to get to my goal (defined abs...<9% body fat)0
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Excellent info, true to the T, but it seems to work fifferently for different people.0
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V0
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Ok, so here's my dilemma:
I am a spinning instructor, and I teach 3 days a week (Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday). I also am a runner, and will be starting training for the full marathon in June (race is late Sept). I lift 3 days a week. I need at least one full rest day a week, as well as one long run a week. I have been lifting on the days I spin or run. I wouldn't mind trying to separate my lifting and cardio days, but there are only so many days in a week, lol. I guess it's a matter of what I want to accomplish. I want to maintain my muscle and burn fat... I would like to get stronger and build muscle, too, but I realize w/ this much cardio it's basically serving two masters. Here's what I typically do right now (I take my rest day either Tuesday or Thursday).
Sunday: Lift & Spin
Monday: Spin
Tuesday: Run
Wednesday: Lift & Spin
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Lift & Run
Saturday: Long run
I'm totally working at cross-purposes, and I realize that... but is there any reason I can't continue doing what I'm doing? I am hoping to lose around10lbs of fat. I have no idea what my bf% is!0 -
Ok, so here's my dilemma:
I am a spinning instructor, and I teach 3 days a week (Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday). I also am a runner, and will be starting training for the full marathon in June (race is late Sept). I lift 3 days a week. I need at least one full rest day a week, as well as one long run a week. I have been lifting on the days I spin or run. I wouldn't mind trying to separate my lifting and cardio days, but there are only so many days in a week, lol. I guess it's a matter of what I want to accomplish. I want to maintain my muscle and burn fat... I would like to get stronger and build muscle, too, but I realize w/ this much cardio it's basically serving two masters. Here's what I typically do right now (I take my rest day either Tuesday or Thursday).
Sunday: Lift & Spin
Monday: Spin
Tuesday: Run
Wednesday: Lift & Spin
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Lift & Run
Saturday: Long run
I'm totally working at cross-purposes, and I realize that... but is there any reason I can't continue doing what I'm doing? I am hoping to lose around10lbs of fat. I have no idea what my bf% is!
next time use [ ] instead of < >.
What triathletes do is expand their week. In our mind a week is 7 days, so we have to fit everything in to 7 days... This is all in your head, no reason why a training week for you can't be 10 days instead of 7.
Haha thanks!
Ok, so 10 days... I still have to teach every Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday, and even with only one rest day every 10 days, I'm still stuck w/ either having to double up (lift + cardio, or cardio + cardio) or cut back on the frequency of cardio or lifting... Meh, can't I just do them on the same day? Argh.0 -
Ok, so now you have the basics about the cardio and strenght, here is my feeding protocol for both days.
I had before IF a multi-meals approach, but now I focus on the macros rather than the timing. I won't debate on the timing - in the end, a calorie is a calorie
Cardio days
- Deficit - 15/ 20 % under TDEE (I haven't figured it mine, so I'm at 2500-2600 calories)
Since it's a deficit, by it's definition, everything you would eat would be used, nothing will be stored.
Since I'm in a building phase, I cut down on carbs, which increases the lipolisys (usage of fat for energy)
High in fats (good ones of course)
High in proteins (Same level as strenght days
Carbs as low as possible (I don't want to perform here)
Precautions
- include in that day a slow-digestion food : either greek yogurt, or micellar casein (better if you only want the pure intake).
- Before performing the trainning I eat at least a mix between low and high GI foods. 4 hours before : low GI : pastas, whole wheat bread, and 20 minutes before ; gingerbread (the bio ones only contains proteins and carbs)
- Since it's a deficit day, I upper the fat : nice fishes, nuts etcc... but always watch the carbs. Why ? Because the more carbs you bring, the less the body would use the fat as energy, rather it'll use the fresh carbs you eat the day before
Strength days
- Excedd : 15-20% over TDEE (I haven't figured it mine, so I'm still increasing 'til the scale moves) : 3250 calories
- Carbs orgia (500 grams)
High in proteins (200g)
I cut down on fat as much as possible, since we are in excess, that energy would be directly drained by the fat cells.
precautions
- Limit the fat intakes since we are in excess, and since the protein synthesis works at a fixed speed, eating more than the building speed means ---> fat storage.
How do you know it you are eating enought : well simply by watching out your scale : gaining more than 1,5/ 2 lbs per week mainly means your eat much more than the body needs to repair the fibers, so it's likely to be fat0 -
It really depends on what your goal is. If it is to lose weight - YES, mix it up. I even have clients circuit train their weight days to increase cardio and maximize calorie burn. If you are looking to compete, less cardio, more weights. I am also a spinning instructor, but I never skip weights, yet I can never do weights on spinning days (these are intense workouts for me too).
You can break up your day - run morning, weight train at night (upper or lower). I would also look at your schedule and want to know where your speed work is, that is if you want to place high....
Don't forget, if you feel you need a certain training program, you can always teach off bike! Don't forget plyometrics and Core - core is so huge for runners (plank...).0 -
This is only true for lean body mass people and not overweight individuals.0
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What about programs like Chalean Extreme that mix cardio and weights in the same workout?
Are you saying it's counterproductive?0 -
i lift then do cardio directly after..i typically run for about 30 mins. still building strength...so........and i'm only 125 lbs.0
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this is what i'm thinking as well. i normally do 15 minutes of HIIT after i lift and i lift a good portion of weight relative to my max.This is only true for lean body mass people and not overweight individuals.
i'm also obese and i'm sure there are are easier things for my body to use as fuel than muscle, especially since I frequently tax that muscle. once i get closer to my weight and fat loss goals, i'm sure i'll rethink this but for right now i'm getting the results i want0 -
It' ll will get really counterproductive after months of stable/ serious trainings.
Overweight people can eat less than 1200 cal the first weeks, it will do no harm.
But when you are really committed and look for what both activity really bring, you quickly notice how they cannot be mixed the same day - when I started I was able to perfom well in both, etc... but on a middle-long/term basis, they should be worked /approached differently.
Why Mr Universe will never beat Usain Bolt on a track while Bolt never beat Mr Universe on a bench?0 -
Great post Raqzique! I get it finally. Sometimes people are afraid to get too technical on the forum so that the lazy *kitten* who don't like to think are catered to very well. Kudos to you for delving a little deeper. Much appreciated! Now I think I'll be more careful not to mix the two, especially on the same day.0
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Well, I'm def not working towards placing in any races, I am not fast. I am slow-twitch like whoa. I get the job done and I like beating my own times, but I by no means am training in hopes of winning. My hope is not necessarily to gain muscle but to preserve what I have and strip off the fat. I do enjoy lifting heavy, but I enjoy running and spinning, too. I'm not trying to excel at either. I'd just like to continue to do both, enjoy it, and get leaner.
It sounds vain, but my issue is that I do all this work, have been for a couple of years, and yet I don't feel like I LOOK like I work out as much as I do. I want to be lean and cut. I want to see the muscle that's under the layer of fat. So, simply put, my goal is to drop bodyfat.0 -
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I easily do cardio & strength at the SAME time :O OMG my bad cause it's working like crazy for me. I'm getting the lean muscle I need & losing weight at the same time.
I guess what does not work for some works for others, each person is totally different & that's how I see it. While I can eat almost nothing & not lose a single gram, I can workout doing cardio each day & strength training each day as well & get better results.0 -
Like i said, it gets really counter-productive on a long-term basis. I disagree on the "what does work for some doesn't work for others" regarding the fiber involved. We are not talking about how much you need to eat or how to manage your macros.
i'm simply exposing the fact that two kind of fibers are involved - ignoring this is like telling me you can gain weight while you are in deficit -
not to mention my title 'wouldn't '
I did both, during months and it worked, BUT are you keep progressing on both fields ?0 -
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Hi Razique, thank you so much for such an informative post!
I have a question.
What compounds are used in muscle repair (ie. protein, i presume)? What compounds can be used as energy while repairing muscle? Is fat used as energy during muscle repair? In which case, could a person with sufficient fat stores then do both cardio and strength?
I understand now why a lean person cannot do both.0 -
Hey Lilly
I wrote another post that might help you
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/526837-why-eating-proteins0 -
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"The physiological adaptations of each type of exercise are going to be different, but the value of each may end up being equal"
New Rules of Lifting pg 78
In a bodybuilding context you're correct but strength training for runners is of proven benefit.0 -
Thank you again - your explanations are amazing!
That answered one question, but my other question was whether energy from fat (rather than energy from glycogen) can be used in anabolism (muscle repair).
Put simply, if someone with excess fat stores did strength training, then went for a run (I suppose a very big run if they are burning so much glycogen that there is none remaining for muscle repair), could the body then use energy from the fats to build the muscles out of the protein we consume during recovery.
Hope that question made sense.
I am curious because I notice that I recover very quickly at the moment and I have 30%bf. When I was (apparently) 16%bf recovery seemed to take longer.0 -
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Thank you again - your explanations are amazing!
That answered one question, but my other question was whether energy from fat (rather than energy from glycogen) can be used in anabolism (muscle repair).
Put simply, if someone with excess fat stores did strength training, then went for a run (I suppose a very big run if they are burning so much glycogen that there is none remaining for muscle repair), could the body then use energy from the fats to build the muscles out of the protein we consume during recovery.
Hope that question made sense.
I am curious because I notice that I recover very quickly at the moment and I have 30%bf. When I was (apparently) 16%bf recovery seemed to take longer.
Yes, but not any type of fatty acids : omega-3 fatty acids only.
While saturated fats and medium-chain triglyrerides (MCT's) don't contribute to muscle gain, a study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932294) showed that subjects who received omega-3 intakes had gain 1,1lb of lean mass and lost 1,1 lb of fat mass.
Thanks BrianSharpe, it is true that my researches mainly focus in strenght, cardio is more of stranger to me
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You are awesome :flowerforyou:
thank you. 0 -
Excellent Q & A here. And very interesting regarding the omega 3.0
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anytime :drinker:0
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Great post. Very informative!0
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Lots of good info in this thread. Nice!0
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