Low-Carb

135

Replies

  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    My opinion is that anyone who comes on this board and is severely overweight likely has a metabolic defect going on that leads to overeating.

    absurd conclusion

    I was wrong. It's not my opinion, but the opinion of dozens of scientists who have actually studied obesity.

    Dozens of scientists have studied severaly overweight MFP members?? ("anyone that comes on this board")

    **I know that's not what you meant, but I still had to do it**

    Your point is starting to make less and less sense to me. The title of this thread is 'Low-Carb'. If you don't like low-carb dieting, then get the F out. If people are going to make posts saying its dangerous, then I'm going to call them out on it.

    "get the f out?" WOW...I am not low carb at all. But I dont agree that all obese people have a metabolic disorder. You need to apologize to me.

    No this was directed at bcattoes for saying I shouldn't be promoting low-carb dieting on a low-carb thread.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    My opinion is that anyone who comes on this board and is severely overweight likely has a metabolic defect going on that leads to overeating.

    absurd conclusion

    I was wrong. It's not my opinion, but the opinion of dozens of scientists who have actually studied obesity.

    Oh Grinch what am I going to do with you? And what would be this metabolic defect, insulin resistance?

    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    This thread just keeps getting better and better and more and more off-track, love it! Where's the popcorn when you need it? Wish I had more of my sweet potatoe protein pancakes with me... LOL
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    My opinion is that anyone who comes on this board and is severely overweight likely has a metabolic defect going on that leads to overeating.

    absurd conclusion

    I was wrong. It's not my opinion, but the opinion of dozens of scientists who have actually studied obesity.

    Dozens of scientists have studied severaly overweight MFP members?? ("anyone that comes on this board")

    **I know that's not what you meant, but I still had to do it**

    Your point is starting to make less and less sense to me. The title of this thread is 'Low-Carb'. If you don't like low-carb dieting, then get the F out. If people are going to make posts saying its dangerous, then I'm going to call them out on it.

    I've stated repeatedly that I don't dislike low-carb. I don't see how anyone could since there doesn't seem to be a standard definition. By some definitions I've seen on these boards, I eat low carb, though I make no effort to do so.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    My opinion is that anyone who comes on this board and is severely overweight likely has a metabolic defect going on that leads to overeating.

    absurd conclusion

    I was wrong. It's not my opinion, but the opinion of dozens of scientists who have actually studied obesity.

    Dozens of scientists have studied severaly overweight MFP members?? ("anyone that comes on this board")

    **I know that's not what you meant, but I still had to do it**

    Your point is starting to make less and less sense to me. The title of this thread is 'Low-Carb'. If you don't like low-carb dieting, then get the F out. If people are going to make posts saying its dangerous, then I'm going to call them out on it.

    "get the f out?" WOW...I am not low carb at all. But I dont agree that all obese people have a metabolic disorder. You need to apologize to me.

    No this was directed at bcattoes for saying I shouldn't be promoting low-carb dieting on a low-carb thread.

    I don't believe I said that, but if it was it was a typo (quite possible as I am a crappy typist). Can you please quote the post to which you refer?
  • thelowcarbrecipes
    thelowcarbrecipes Posts: 89 Member
    Well a low carb high fat diet has worked great for me, its been very easy when you stick with it.

    to anyone saying when you stop low carb you will gain weight, that is only true if you go back to eating those unhealthy foods [which made you put on weight in the first place]

    The key fact to remember is fat is healthy! Carbs are the enemy
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    My opinion is that anyone who comes on this board and is severely overweight likely has a metabolic defect going on that leads to overeating.

    absurd conclusion

    I was wrong. It's not my opinion, but the opinion of dozens of scientists who have actually studied obesity.

    Dozens of scientists have studied severaly overweight MFP members?? ("anyone that comes on this board")

    **I know that's not what you meant, but I still had to do it**

    Your point is starting to make less and less sense to me. The title of this thread is 'Low-Carb'. If you don't like low-carb dieting, then get the F out. If people are going to make posts saying its dangerous, then I'm going to call them out on it.

    I've stated repeatedly that I don't dislike low-carb. I don't see how anyone could since there doesn't seem to be a standard definition. By some definitions I've seen on these boards, I eat low carb, though I make no effort to do so.

    So I guess your objective is to say that no diet is better than any other diet. Fine, but I happen to disagree with that. I think everyone should eat a diet that is optimal for their health, and where we greatly disagree is how to determine what diet is optimal for each person. I just happen to believe that restricting carbs over calories is going to be optimal for more than just a small number of people.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Well a low carb high fat diet has worked great for me, its been very easy when you stick with it.

    to anyone saying when you stop low carb you will gain weight, that is only true if you go back to eating those unhealthy foods [which made you put on weight in the first place]

    The key fact to remember is fat is healthy! Carbs are the enemy

    Yeah carbs are evil! and Trans fat does wonders for the body!
  • TinkrBelz
    TinkrBelz Posts: 866 Member
    I am not sure if what I do is called low carb...but I have cut them back and have seen results. I also increased protein.

    In the past, I did 50g/day and lost weight. But, I really had a hard time maintaining that lifestyle. Now, I do 100-150/day and I do 100-150/day in protein too. So, when I do a meal, I try to balance out the carbs and protein...maybe lean more on the protein and pull the carbs back some. I feel good, I lost bf ad have gained muscle, and this is easy for me to maintain. I can eat with my family (I used to make my own little meals) This way of eating has been great for me!!!
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member

    So I guess your objective is to say that no diet is better than any other diet. Fine, but I happen to disagree with that. I think everyone should eat a diet that is optimal for their health, and where we greatly disagree is how to determine what diet is optimal for each person. I just happen to believe that restricting carbs over calories is going to be optimal for more than just a small number of people.

    thats all well and fine but saying all obese people suffer a metabolic disorder could possibly convince some slob that his choices are not his fault and he can hide behind his disorder
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    My opinion is that anyone who comes on this board and is severely overweight likely has a metabolic defect going on that leads to overeating.

    absurd conclusion

    I was wrong. It's not my opinion, but the opinion of dozens of scientists who have actually studied obesity.

    Dozens of scientists have studied severaly overweight MFP members?? ("anyone that comes on this board")

    **I know that's not what you meant, but I still had to do it**

    Your point is starting to make less and less sense to me. The title of this thread is 'Low-Carb'. If you don't like low-carb dieting, then get the F out. If people are going to make posts saying its dangerous, then I'm going to call them out on it.

    I've stated repeatedly that I don't dislike low-carb. I don't see how anyone could since there doesn't seem to be a standard definition. By some definitions I've seen on these boards, I eat low carb, though I make no effort to do so.

    So I guess your objective is to say that no diet is better than any other diet. Fine, but I happen to disagree with that. I think everyone should eat a diet that is optimal for their health, and where we greatly disagree is how to determine what diet is optimal for each person. I just happen to believe that restricting carbs over calories is going to be optimal for more than just a small number of people.

    I would agree that restricting carbs over calories is going to be optimal for more than just a small number of people. But I'd also agree that restricting calories over carbs is going to be optimal for more than just a small number of people.

    My objective is absolutely not to say that no diet is better than any other diet. There are diets I believe to be dangerous. But there are a number of safe diets that I believe are only better on an individual basis. My belief is that any diet that provides proper nutrition and the dieter finds satisfying enough to reach and maintain a healthy weight is the best diet for that dieter.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679

    So I guess your objective is to say that no diet is better than any other diet. Fine, but I happen to disagree with that. I think everyone should eat a diet that is optimal for their health, and where we greatly disagree is how to determine what diet is optimal for each person. I just happen to believe that restricting carbs over calories is going to be optimal for more than just a small number of people.

    thats all well and fine but saying all obese people suffer a metabolic disorder could possibly convince some slob that his choices are not his fault and he can hide behind his disorder

    So its not like he can't do anything about it even if it does happen to be a physiological disorder, and not a mental disorder. I'd rather know the truth of what causes it no matter what that truth is. I'll be the first to say there is no definitive proof that any of what I say is true, but its just one more hypothesis out there that needs to be better tested.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    So while you've posted before and other low carb advocates have posted the graph showing the correlation between grain/carb intake and obesity, so that holds water with you, but over the same time span physical activity has decreased by 10% or so, but that holds no water with you? Personally I don't single out any one factor to the rise in obesity, but I do find it humorous when low carbers like to singularly blame carbs for it
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    So while you've posted before and other low carb advocates have posted the graph showing the correlation between grain/carb intake and obesity, so that holds water with you, but over the same time span physical activity has decreased by 10% or so, but that holds no water with you? Personally I don't single out any one factor to the rise in obesity, but I do find it humorous when low carbers like to singularly blame carbs for it

    I have not seen a graph on physical activity over time, do you have a link to it?

    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.
  • LauRoxx
    LauRoxx Posts: 115 Member
    I will shut up forever if anybody can show me a population that has become morbidly obese without eating an abundance of carbohydrates.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the Chinese not eat an "abundance" of carbohydrates and yet are *not* generally known to have to propensity for obesity?

    That's the other side of the argument. Yes there cultures who eat carbohydrates without obesity, but there are no cultures who are obese without eating an abundance of carbohydrates.

    This shows that an abundance of carbohydrates is necessary to have an obesity epidemic, but not that carbohydrates by themselves are enough to cause it. Perhaps its the emphasis on sugar, or more wheat products, or the refining of carbs, or the combination of high carbs with high fat that has led to the problems in the USA. Carbs seem to be the one common denominator.

    I love it when people use logic correctly <3
    Thank you!
  • dlwyatt82
    dlwyatt82 Posts: 1,077 Member
    I tried Atkins for a while a few years ago. I lost about 30 pounds, but was getting very dizzy / lightheaded any time I tried to exercise. Later gained all the weight back (and then some).
  • snowbab
    snowbab Posts: 192 Member
    I have been doing paleo/primal diet (paleo but with yogurt/milk for calcium needs) which allows me up to 126g carbs a day, more with exercise :D

    It seems to have got me out of a 3+ month plateau and because I've found ways to substitute carbs like potatoes and cereal (never really had bread anyway) at lunch time during college it has been great for me! I love it. I discovered i feel less sick after meals, especially breakfast when I now have omlettes instead of porridge.

    It's a personal choice but that's my experience :)
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    So while you've posted before and other low carb advocates have posted the graph showing the correlation between grain/carb intake and obesity, so that holds water with you, but over the same time span physical activity has decreased by 10% or so, but that holds no water with you? Personally I don't single out any one factor to the rise in obesity, but I do find it humorous when low carbers like to singularly blame carbs for it

    I have not seen a graph on physical activity over time, do you have a link to it?

    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Don't have a graph off hand, but here is a recent study talking about activity levels among other things

    Adherence to healthy lifestyle habits in US adults, 1988-2006.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19486715


    So if i understand you correctly, the consumption of certain foods leads to something to go out of whack in the body causing people to overeat?

    People are absolutely powerless to not eat when this happens and there is no disassociation between actual caloric intake and perceived caloric intake?
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Why do you suppose that humans began consuming grains thousands of years ago, but we are just now becoming obese at epidemic porportions? The childhood obesity rate in and of itself seems a very good argument for sedentary lifestyle playing a bigger role than carb consumption.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    So while you've posted before and other low carb advocates have posted the graph showing the correlation between grain/carb intake and obesity, so that holds water with you, but over the same time span physical activity has decreased by 10% or so, but that holds no water with you? Personally I don't single out any one factor to the rise in obesity, but I do find it humorous when low carbers like to singularly blame carbs for it

    I have not seen a graph on physical activity over time, do you have a link to it?

    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Don't have a graph off hand, but here is a recent study talking about activity levels among other things

    Adherence to healthy lifestyle habits in US adults, 1988-2006.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19486715


    So if i understand you correctly, the consumption of certain foods leads to something to go out of whack in the body causing people to overeat?

    People are absolutely powerless to not eat when this happens and there is no disassociation between actual caloric intake and perceived caloric intake?

    Yes I believe that eating the wrong types of foods at a high frequency over an extended period of time coupled with genetic predisposition causes metabolic damage and hormonal responses that lead to chronic overeating and subsequent weight gain. People can certainly override the weight gain temporarily through dieting, but in the end the body is relentless and as long as the person continues to eat these trigger foods, they will not sustain their efforts to maintain a healthy weight and will end up regaining.

    So I don't know what you mean regarding 'actual' vs 'perceived' caloric intake. People will either stop counting calories when they hit their goal weight and gradually start overeating again unknowingly, or they will get tired of counting calories and give up altogether and more quickly return to their overeating. But otherwise if people can count their calories forever, they will not regain the weight unless their metabolism slows down too much from leptin deficiency.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Why do you suppose that humans began consuming grains thousands of years ago, but we are just now becoming obese at epidemic porportions? The childhood obesity rate in and of itself seems a very good argument for sedentary lifestyle playing a bigger role than carb consumption.

    Probably because of eating more refined sugar and wheat products, or because we tend to eat them in pair with high fat as well (ie. fast food). I think the amount of refined carbs we're eating has gotten worse and worse over the decades. Actually what I find interesting is that carbohydrate intake increased a lot from the late 70s but leveled off in the early 2000s. The obesity epidemic has seemed to follow a similar trend. There actually hasn't been much progress there in the last couple years.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    So while you've posted before and other low carb advocates have posted the graph showing the correlation between grain/carb intake and obesity, so that holds water with you, but over the same time span physical activity has decreased by 10% or so, but that holds no water with you? Personally I don't single out any one factor to the rise in obesity, but I do find it humorous when low carbers like to singularly blame carbs for it

    I have not seen a graph on physical activity over time, do you have a link to it?

    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Don't have a graph off hand, but here is a recent study talking about activity levels among other things

    Adherence to healthy lifestyle habits in US adults, 1988-2006.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19486715


    So if i understand you correctly, the consumption of certain foods leads to something to go out of whack in the body causing people to overeat?

    People are absolutely powerless to not eat when this happens and there is no disassociation between actual caloric intake and perceived caloric intake?

    Yes I believe that eating the wrong types of foods at a high frequency over an extended period of time coupled with genetic predisposition causes metabolic damage and hormonal responses that lead to chronic overeating and subsequent weight gain. People can certainly override the weight gain temporarily through dieting, but in the end the body is relentless and as long as the person continues to eat these trigger foods, they will not sustain their efforts to maintain a healthy weight and will end up regaining.

    So I don't know what you mean regarding 'actual' vs 'perceived' caloric intake. People will either stop counting calories when they hit their goal weight and gradually start overeating again unknowingly, or they will get tired of counting calories and give up altogether and more quickly return to their overeating. But otherwise if people can count their calories forever, they will not regain the weight unless their metabolism slows down too much from leptin deficiency.

    Is Obesity Caused by Calorie Underestimation? A Psychophysical Model of Meal Size Estimation

    Scroll down to table 1 and pay particular attention to the results of the overweight

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=obese underestimate caloric&amp;source=web&amp;cd=6&amp;ved=0CFAQFjAF&amp;url=http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/pdf/permission/2007/CalorieUnderestimation-JMR2007.pdf&amp;ei=SjNFT8LMDqbL0QH758iDBA&amp;usg=AFQjCNErRjgqL6WWfDLtRDVJVIGhPSBj9w&amp;cad=rja
  • andrejjorje
    andrejjorje Posts: 497 Member
    Look at my ticker and then at my diary. Everything in 4 months.
    Has anyone done a low-carb type diet??
    I'd like to know how it worked for you - Pros/Cons... anything.

    I'm really considering to try it out to hopefully re-jump start some weight loss since I've hit a lovely plateau.

    Any help would be appreciated :]
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Why do you suppose that humans began consuming grains thousands of years ago, but we are just now becoming obese at epidemic porportions? The childhood obesity rate in and of itself seems a very good argument for sedentary lifestyle playing a bigger role than carb consumption.

    Probably because of eating more refined sugar and wheat products, or because we tend to eat them in pair with high fat as well (ie. fast food). I think the amount of refined carbs we're eating has gotten worse and worse over the decades. Actually what I find interesting is that carbohydrate intake increased a lot from the late 70s but leveled off in the early 2000s. The obesity epidemic has seemed to follow a similar trend. There actually hasn't been much progress there in the last couple years.

    Has the amount of processed carbs increased since the 70's? I'll have to look that up. I grew up in the 60's and 70's and everyone ate sugary candies and desserts as much or more than kids do now. And white bread was the norm. I don't even remember hearing about whole grain bread when I was kid, and whole grain pasta wasn't even available in most areas.

    The difference was that we didn't have video games and cable TV. We went outside to play every chance we got because inside was boring. We probably ate less in general because we were outside and not near the kitchen, but kids ate carbs and lots of them back then.
  • email4jenp
    email4jenp Posts: 52 Member
    I am doing it due to a metabolic syndrome and my Dr suggested this to me (we've tried other things) and I definitely have an issue with sugar and carbs, and sugar, carbs cause a binge in my case.

    For now, our plan is to cut out my carbs for a few weeks and keep it under 20g just like Atkins. I will go back in for some more blood work and if some other levels have balanced back out, I can start introducing whole grain carbs (but still, very little) such as South Beach / low Glycemic index. But i've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I need to be VERY careful about what kind of carbs I put into my body and that when I hit my goal weight, I have to remain their and make better choices.

    15 years ago, I did atkins prior to my wedding, I lost 25lbs, but it came back on so fast, it was crazy, but I had used the diet to fit into a smaller dress and went on my honeymood and did not watch what I ate and when I came back, I was completely off the diet, so yes, it came back on with a vengeance.

    If you are going to choose low carb, make sure it's something you can stick to. It is a lifetime change. And you can't cheat either or the diet is pointless. The point of low carb is to get your body in Ketosis where it will burn your fat stores. If you cheat then your not burning your fat store, your using your insulin (Or somtehing like that) which is not burning your fat. Also, on LC you tend to eat higher fat content, if you don't eat the carbs or sugar, this is okay, but if you eat those fattening things, then have carbs or sugar, then those things will greatly effect your weight, health.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    So while you've posted before and other low carb advocates have posted the graph showing the correlation between grain/carb intake and obesity, so that holds water with you, but over the same time span physical activity has decreased by 10% or so, but that holds no water with you? Personally I don't single out any one factor to the rise in obesity, but I do find it humorous when low carbers like to singularly blame carbs for it

    I have not seen a graph on physical activity over time, do you have a link to it?

    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Don't have a graph off hand, but here is a recent study talking about activity levels among other things

    Adherence to healthy lifestyle habits in US adults, 1988-2006.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19486715


    So if i understand you correctly, the consumption of certain foods leads to something to go out of whack in the body causing people to overeat?

    People are absolutely powerless to not eat when this happens and there is no disassociation between actual caloric intake and perceived caloric intake?

    Yes I believe that eating the wrong types of foods at a high frequency over an extended period of time coupled with genetic predisposition causes metabolic damage and hormonal responses that lead to chronic overeating and subsequent weight gain. People can certainly override the weight gain temporarily through dieting, but in the end the body is relentless and as long as the person continues to eat these trigger foods, they will not sustain their efforts to maintain a healthy weight and will end up regaining.

    So I don't know what you mean regarding 'actual' vs 'perceived' caloric intake. People will either stop counting calories when they hit their goal weight and gradually start overeating again unknowingly, or they will get tired of counting calories and give up altogether and more quickly return to their overeating. But otherwise if people can count their calories forever, they will not regain the weight unless their metabolism slows down too much from leptin deficiency.

    Is Obesity Caused by Calorie Underestimation? A Psychophysical Model of Meal Size Estimation

    Scroll down to table 1 and pay particular attention to the results of the overweight

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=obese underestimate caloric&amp;source=web&amp;cd=6&amp;ved=0CFAQFjAF&amp;url=http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/pdf/permission/2007/CalorieUnderestimation-JMR2007.pdf&amp;ei=SjNFT8LMDqbL0QH758iDBA&amp;usg=AFQjCNErRjgqL6WWfDLtRDVJVIGhPSBj9w&amp;cad=rja

    I guess my point is none of this really matters to me. The human body is supposed to regulate its own fat storage without the mind manually overriding the appetite signaling of the body. That is how animals do it, and most of them are neither starving nor obese.

    So you will jump back to saying it must be the over-availability of food that causes us to become obese. The problem with that is you give most low-carbers an abundance of eggs, meat, green veggies, or other low-carb foods and they lose weight pretty effortlessly. So to me, its not the over-availability of food, but the over-availability of *seasonal* food, or food that just happens to be high in carbohydrates. Sure some are worse offenders than others, but not surprisingly it seems like the worst offenders are those that are most refined and hence unnatural to our diets.

    I have met countless skinny people who claim they eat whatever they want and cannot gain a pound. Yet every time I spend a significant amount of time with them, they will eat one big meal and not touch food for the next 24 hours (slight exaggeration). Their body does not signal hunger for a long time after a big meal and they are convinced they actually eat a lot, until they spend time with me and see that I really do eat a lot when I let loose on the food. Why am I driven to eat like a pig but these people aren't? And back when I was a teen, I ate what I wanted and my body stayed thin but now it wants to gain weight. What is the difference?
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    From all the various sites I've explored on the science of obesity, I don't single out any one *physiological* factor (ie. insulin), but I do think it is a complex metabolic problem that is caused by the type of food we eat combined with our genetics, but I am unconvinced its a mental disorder or related to activity levels. For instance I'm a big believer in leptin deficiency leading to excess hunger and the drive to regain lost weight, but I don't believe in leptin resistance nor do I believe in set point theory as its defined as some thermostat managed by the brain.

    Why do you suppose that humans began consuming grains thousands of years ago, but we are just now becoming obese at epidemic porportions? The childhood obesity rate in and of itself seems a very good argument for sedentary lifestyle playing a bigger role than carb consumption.

    Probably because of eating more refined sugar and wheat products, or because we tend to eat them in pair with high fat as well (ie. fast food). I think the amount of refined carbs we're eating has gotten worse and worse over the decades. Actually what I find interesting is that carbohydrate intake increased a lot from the late 70s but leveled off in the early 2000s. The obesity epidemic has seemed to follow a similar trend. There actually hasn't been much progress there in the last couple years.

    Has the amount of processed carbs increased since the 70's? I'll have to look that up. I grew up in the 60's and 70's and everyone ate sugary candies and desserts as much or more than kids do now. And white bread was the norm. I don't even remember hearing about whole grain bread when I was kid, and whole grain pasta wasn't even available in most areas.

    The difference was that we didn't have video games and cable TV. We went outside to play every chance we got because inside was boring. We probably ate less in general because we were outside and not near the kitchen, but kids ate carbs and lots of them back then.

    I really don't buy the argument that activity levels make a whole lot of difference. I don't see why the body wouldn't just down-regulate food intake when the person is less active. I know when I am more active, I don't lose weight, I stay the same or even gain because my hunger increases and I feel like I'm always trying to resist weight gain.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    Its not known for sure. I know more research needs to be done. Leptin and insulin both play a role. I just don't and will never buy the argument that it is caused by the individual's gluttony or lack of willpower. Why do some people automatically eat just the right amount and others need willpower? That's not driven by the body?

    People becoming more sedentary over time combined with the easy availability of food has lead to people eating in excess.

    Okay I find the sedentary claim to be nonsense. There is little evidence that the amount of physical activity has more than a marginal effect on weight management.

    I will agree with easy availability of food, but more specifically easy availability of carbohydrate-based foods. Carbs were seasonal only before agriculture. Now they are available year round, and they are cheap and mostly refined. That to me is the big cause.

    Seriously? Even though any expert on nutrition and exercise includes your level of activity in determining how much one should eat to lose, maintain, or gain weight? If activity is irrelevant, why account for it?

    Before agriculture? Are we talking strictly like caveman times then? Even the earliest civilizations stored grain.

    I'm not anti-low carb by any means but this conversation is getting silly. In general, people get fat because of bad food decisions. Whether it's willpower or a lack of education and / or laziness.
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