"Enhancement" or "Cheating"? Your opinion.

ninerbuff

I hope that we all can keep this civil as a debate because I know we all won't see eye to eye on it, but let's try to "hear out" opinions and views on this.

A thread I was on this morning inspired me to post a thread on this. The thread showed progress of a member losing weight and doing good, but "enhancement" was included to assist along the way. Some of the debate went out of bounds, but it got me thinking of whether some thought it was cheating or enhancement?

Think about this for a second: 2 people go on a weight loss plan together and lose 20lbs. They bet each other who can get to it first. One decides to just do it by calorie deficit, the other by calorie deficit and exercise. The person who does exercise loses faster and ends up winning. Now is this "enhancement" to what the other is doing or is it "cheating" if the goal is just to lose weight the fastest?

2 swimmers on the same team with the same speed on a lap wear different suits. One wears a regular Speedo while the other wears one with "friction resistance" in the water. Enhancement or cheating?

A golfer who used to wear glasses gets his eyes "lasiked" so he doesn't have to wear them and slightly improves his vision. He now golfs better. Enhancement or cheating?

Someone takes enhancement drugs to lose weight and improve physique. Many call this "cheating", but why would it be if the others up above wouldn't be considered cheating?

My personal opinion is that anything you can do to "enhance" what you're doing is just that.........enhancement. If a child studies with flash cards and his peers do not and he scores better, then he enhanced his learning skills. If he had the exact answers to the test and just copied them down and then transferred it to the test, then obviously it would be cheating. But where do you draw the line to enhancement and cheating?

Thoughts and be civil.

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laineyluma

Bump

taso42

Fundamentally I agree with you. Enhancements are enhancements, and I don't really care what people do. In a competition setting, however, I would expect everyone to abide by the same rules.

Regarding the thread from this morning, my only issue was that it was misleading. In the beginning it looked like the guy was making outlandish claims about his progress. It did not come out until pages later that he was "enhanced". If he had mentioned this in the original post, it would have been a totally different conversation.

ampa916

I would only think it is "cheating" if you are in a competition or something and use resources outside of what is natural for you. Lasik I would consider cheating because it's just correcting something that is wrong. Eating right with a calorie deficit and exercise is not cheating because that is something everyone can pretty much easily do. Using enhancement drugs to improve physique I don't think is wrong or "cheating" unless they are in a competition where it is clear that it IS cheating, but if someone who loves working out wants to "bulk up" or slim down or whatever and uses those resources I say it is just enhancement.

mccarol1956

I guess for me it is the type of enhancement!

My enhancement is exercise. The only "enhancement" I am against is purging! Well the only one I can think of at this second.

msmith2020

I'm thinking Enhancement

Which makes me think that eating at calorie deficit alone wont do quite the trick of losing weight that I want- plus the muscles I wont will not come from eating less. DANG IT! I have to workout tonight! I swear I only get tired when I know I'm going to have to workout.. bahah :laugh:

No cheating involved - unless of course the one is eating deficit and the other got a lap-band= cheating. :grumble:

secretlobster

"Enhancement" is something that serves vanity, at the expense of one's health.

If he prioritizes what his arms look like, then fine, I could care less. But he shouldn't be giving advice to people who care about their health.

shedoos

cheating:
Verb:

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Deceive or trick.


Given the definition, I believe the use of "enhancements" is cheating only if the enhancements are forbidden by the rule of the sport or the rules of society.

The enhancements discussed this morning may be stupid, or a "short cut", but I don't see how they can be considered "cheating"

ninerbuff

I would only think it is "cheating" if you are in a competition or something and use resources outside of what is natural for you. Lasik I would consider cheating because it's just correcting something that is wrong. Eating right with a calorie deficit and exercise is not cheating because that is something everyone can pretty much easily do. Using enhancement drugs to improve physique I don't think is wrong or "cheating" unless they are in a competition where it is clear that it IS cheating, but if someone who loves working out wants to "bulk up" or slim down or whatever and uses those resources I say it is just enhancement.

I think where the line gets drawn is when the word "competition" comes up.

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SheehyCFC

Fundamentally I agree with you. Enhancements are enhancements, and I don't really care what people do. In a competition setting, however, I would expect everyone to abide by the same rules.

I agree with this. And would like to add that abiding by the same rules also includes have access to the same tools/training used for that activity.

As you are trying to keep this civil (and really this is a good question) I will not comment on the thread from earlier. BUT, I would like to say that "cheating" is really only appropriate in a competitive environment. You can "cheat yourself", but that comes down to personal beilefs, morals, etc. and it gets so granular, I believe it is impossible to generalize about scenarios.

JennieAL

Ahhhhhh... you're a voice of reason on the forum, Ninerbuff

'Cept when we're talking strip clubs & porn, of course :P

ninerbuff

I'm thinking Enhancement

Which makes me think that eating at calorie deficit alone wont do quite the trick of losing weight that I want- plus the muscles I wont will not come from eating less. DANG IT! I have to workout tonight! I swear I only get tired when I know I'm going to have to workout.. bahah :laugh:

No cheating involved - unless of course the one is eating deficit and the other got a lap-band= cheating. :grumble:

I would think that "lipo" is cheating.

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myak623

I have no problem with enhancements. It's not the way I choose to go about this. If someone so chooses, who am I to judge.

Regarding the early thread, the OP of that one should have stated from the beginning that his progression wasn't natural.

ninerbuff

Ahhhhhh... you're a voice of reason on the forum, Ninerbuff

'Cept when we're talking strip clubs & porn, of course :P

Sure you don't want to see a nude pic of me?

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j77r68

wow way to make people think !
i guess my opinion is; it depends on the severity of the "enhancement" . if it would give an unfair advantage to one person than i think that would be cheating but i would have to be presented with scenarios like you gave to determine. But if it has to do with a weightloss journey than i think everyone is on there own so anything they do i think would just be an enhancement. hope that makes sense.

chachadiva150

It's all the same unless it goes against the rules of engagement.

UponThisRock

Anyone bigger than me must be on roids.

On a serious note, I don't care what people do. The only thing I have a problem with is either (1) belittling others for their natural muscle/strength achievements when yours were drug-assisted or (2) other minimizing the role drugs have played in your athletic achievements.

Steroids work, and they work very, very well. Patting yourself on the back for making great gains while on gear is monumentally douchey.

Jennisin1

I am taking this journey to become the best me, not only from a "look good" point of view but from a health point of view. I would consider it cheating if what you are choosing to do sacrifices your health to look good.... What is the point of looking good in the short term if it prevents you from living a full and healthy life in the long term...

but, in the end, the only person you are "cheating" is yourself... unless you are competing.

TexanThom

If the golfer was wearing glasses, that would be "Cheating" by your standards... You are not born with them.

thelovelyLIZ

Well, in the case of the first scenario, I would ask what are the ground rules? Did they just say "I bet I can lose 20lbs faster?" and not lay guidelines as to how? If they didn't detail exactly how, then no, it's not cheating. There are no rules being broken. If they said "only calorie deficit and no exercise" then yes, it is.

You can do thing and use strategies to make you better and it's not cheating. Everyone functions differently, so what works from one person won't work for the other.

marieautumn

define enhancements? for instance, i have breast enhancements, but i dont think its cheating. Just saying. :bigsmile:

SheehyCFC

I would think that "lipo" is cheating.

whereas I would view it as neither enhancement nor cheating for that person. I would view it as "cheating myself" if I did it, but to each person that could be different (see my above post). I certainly wouldn't consider it an enhacement though just because so many people revert back due to not learning the discipline required in weight loss. I consider it more of a short-cut that ends up being a "long-cut" (because in most, not all cases, people go back to where they were pre-surgery)

**EDIT - put "cheating myself" to clarify

JennieAL

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Ahhhhhh... you're a voice of reason on the forum, Ninerbuff

'Cept when we're talking strip clubs & porn, of course :P

Sure you don't want to see a nude pic of me?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Well... judging by your username. Hmmmmm. I might be missing out if I turned down an offer like that :P

jtintx

There are rules that govern "sport." If you are involved in sport and break the rules you have cheated. If not then it doesn't really matter what it's called. But if you are willing to take an injection that has the potential to cause you harm then I don't call it cheating...I call it stupidity.

ninerbuff

"Enhancement" is something that serves vanity, at the expense of one's health.

If he prioritizes what his arms look like, then fine, I could care less. But he shouldn't be giving advice to people who care about their health.

I won't go into detail (that's probably for another thread and I don't want to get this one locked), but there isn't any scientific evidence that shows that "enhancement" drugs (when taken in correct dosage and monitored by a physician) are detrimental to one's health. There may be side effects from individual standpoints, but there are hundreds of HRT clinics around the US alone that do this.

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auroranflash

Steroids are a double-edged "enhancement" ... all of the examples you listed have no negative side effects. The golfer will benefit from Lasik in other areas of his life as well. The swimmer was smart enough to research and invest in a good swimsuit to suit his needs. The dieter knows that exercise is a fundamental part of weight loss, and hopefully inspired his dieting partner to participate as well.

Steroids have the potential to be extremely harmful when abused (i.e. not prescribed and administered under the watch of a professional), and can lead to heart attacks, cancer, and death, among many other symptoms...

I think this is the wrong way to look at it.

militarydreams

I would use an enhancement if it wasn't detrimental to my health or dangerous, I'm happy being the best that I can be without going there. In my mind I'd be happy with a shark skin swim suit but not so much with roids or whatever. If people want to be so competative that they're willing to go that far then be my guest, it's none of my business.

That's just my opinion and no doubt we all have one.

sma83

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Ahhhhhh... you're a voice of reason on the forum, Ninerbuff

'Cept when we're talking strip clubs & porn, of course :P

Sure you don't want to see a nude pic of me?


Is this offer open to everyone or just her? lol

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Dinob661

If a child studies with flash cards and his peers do not and he scores better, then he enhanced his learning skills.

Ohhhh so I am not cheating on tests when I get the answers Beforehand!!! Its Enhancement!!! NICE! Got a new excuse if i get caught :P

(this isn't a shot at your point of view btw.... this is just my stupid mind picking something I thought funny out )



I agree with Taso though, If it isn't a competition then people are free to do whatever they want to get the results they desire. If it was a competition people need to follow the same rules.

katemme

I recommend watching the doc Bigger, Faster, Stronger. It is all about steroids and enhancement, and weighs on wether it is cheating or not. As long as you are going by the rules, it is not cheating. Example: There are ways to increase the amount of oxygen in your blood, but only 2 are legal in sports. Tiger Woods had lasik surgery and now his vision is BETTER than perfect.

There are a ton of diets and methods to losing weight, as long as one does not get lipo or cosmetic surgery, I don't think their little game would be cheating if one did a deficit or not.

WhatDoesLisa

I didn't get to see the post earlier since I think it was taken down. Now if the person was taking illegal substances then it is certainly cheating because they are banned. I think that guy was prescribed testosterone by his doctor so is that or not? That's a hard call because was the doc unethical and trying to make a buck? We don't know his motivation. I think those HCG shots should be outlawed but I am sure you can find many doctors that disagree with me.

Hey, I got Botoxed the other day which is totally legal. Am I cheating? Will someone I go out on a date with feel cheated? I don't know but I look better so I go with enhancement.