"Enhancement" or "Cheating"? Your opinion.
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I won't go into detail (that's probably for another thread and I don't want to get this one locked), but there isn't any scientific evidence that shows that "enhancement" drugs (when taken in correct dosage and monitored by a physician) are detrimental to one's health. There may be side effects from individual standpoints, but there are hundreds of HRT clinics around the US alone that do this."Enhancement" is something that serves vanity, at the expense of one's health.
If he prioritizes what his arms look like, then fine, I could care less. But he shouldn't be giving advice to people who care about their health.
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I don’t doubt this one bit but I know people that have used steroids and it seems to be more of a psychological effect than anything else. When they have to stop using and they lose the majority of their gains they can't handle it. Then the cycle starts over again until it eventually becomes an addiction. A lot like plastic surgery for women, they usually can't stop just getting one procedure.
Taking steroids is illegal in the US isn't it? If so, it makes studies of side effects more difficult as people aren't usually that keen to confess they're doing something illegal. It's also unlikely, if it's an illegal activity, that it will be monitored by a physician and isn't being abused at a dangerous level.
This is a bit anecdotal, and I don't particularly like anecdotes, but there have been plenty of former communist block athletes from the 70s and 80s who have died young from heart attacks and the like.
So, I guess it is up to the individual what they do, but how do they know whether what they're doing is harming them or not?0 -
I hope that we all can keep this civil as a debate because I know we all won't see eye to eye on it, but let's try to "hear out" opinions and views on this.
A thread I was on this morning inspired me to post a thread on this. The thread showed progress of a member losing weight and doing good, but "enhancement" was included to assist along the way. Some of the debate went out of bounds, but it got me thinking of whether some thought it was cheating or enhancement?
Think about this for a second: 2 people go on a weight loss plan together and lose 20lbs. They bet each other who can get to it first. One decides to just do it by calorie deficit, the other by calorie deficit and exercise. The person who does exercise loses faster and ends up winning. Now is this "enhancement" to what the other is doing or is it "cheating" if the goal is just to lose weight the fastest?
2 swimmers on the same team with the same speed on a lap wear different suits. One wears a regular Speedo while the other wears one with "friction resistance" in the water. Enhancement or cheating?
A golfer who used to wear glasses gets his eyes "lasiked" so he doesn't have to wear them and slightly improves his vision. He now golfs better. Enhancement or cheating?
Someone takes enhancement drugs to lose weight and improve physique. Many call this "cheating", but why would it be if the others up above wouldn't be considered cheating?
My personal opinion is that anything you can do to "enhance" what you're doing is just that.........enhancement. If a child studies with flash cards and his peers do not and he scores better, then he enhanced his learning skills. If he had the exact answers to the test and just copied them down and then transferred it to the test, then obviously it would be cheating. But where do you draw the line to enhancement and cheating?
Thoughts and be civil.
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Enhancements are OK because the enhancements are available to everyone if they chose it, and can afford it.
Cheating is only going to come into play when there are rules. Rules are there to make sure everyone in a competition starts on a level playing field.
Athletes who take performance enhancing drugs when the rules don't allow them - Cheaters
Joe down the gym that takes performance enhancing drugs - Enhancer - Everyone else in the gym has the same options available.0 -
Anyone bigger than me must be on roids.
On a serious note, I don't care what people do. The only thing I have a problem with is either (1) belittling others for their natural muscle/strength achievements when yours were drug-assisted or (2) other minimizing the role drugs have played in your athletic achievements.
Steroids work, and they work very, very well. Patting yourself on the back for making great gains while on gear is monumentally douchey.
I was going to post, then I read this and decided it was better than what I would have posted. Couldn't agree more.
+1 on this. Steroids, when used correctly, are NO different than a multi-vitamin (in my opinion). The only problem that arises is when people on steroids belittle the efforts of those that choose to go "all natural."
Steroids are WAY different than a multi vitamin! The gains in size and strength made from using steroids are incomparable to any other supplement you can buy. Once off off steroids a good bit of those gains are lost.0 -
I'm all for "enhancement".
We have the olympic games in a couple of months. I find this whole "drug-free" argument a joke. Let them take whatever they want. It's their decision. Let them run as fast/jump as high as medicine and training can take them.0 -
Lol, like viagra? The Mrs. may be looking for electric comfort!:laugh:What happens when enhancements stop being used? Is the individual just as good or does this individual have to try harder to maintain or even be on the same level? I believe what you're referring to is technology. In that case the better technology always wins! Call it what you want, once your enhancements/technology run out you will regress:indifferent: :indifferent:
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Moral of the story.............don't get implants in Europe.
So would you consider breast implants "cheating" based on this reply?I am taking this journey to become the best me, not only from a "look good" point of view but from a health point of view. I would consider it cheating if what you are choosing to do sacrifices your health to look good.... What is the point of looking good in the short term if it prevents you from living a full and healthy life in the long term...
but, in the end, the only person you are "cheating" is yourself... unless you are competing.
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I haven't look into it (since I am not nor ever will be in the need)... but do you really take a significant chance to destroy your long term healthy to get them? I know there would be extremely rare surgical risks, but I don't think there is significant evidence that the modern implant would cause serious issues (may be wrong, haven't done the research) I don't necessarily think that cosmetic surgery is cheating since there are instances that no amount of work on the part of the person is going to create the best outcome for them.
You are wrong. Thousands of women in Europe are currently having repeat surgery to remove faulty implants which could potentially damage their health. It's started a big debate over here about licensing restrictions for implants.
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Illegal possession of steroids is against the law. It can still be prescribed.Taking steroids is illegal in the US isn't it? If so, it makes studies of side effects more difficult as people aren't usually that keen to confess they're doing something illegal. It's also unlikely, if it's an illegal activity, that it will be monitored by a physician and isn't being abused at a dangerous level.
I don't doubt it, but what needs to be looked at is what the dosage was, what was the cycle like, etc. Abuse of any drug ends up bad.This is a bit anecdotal, and I don't particularly like anecdotes, but there have been plenty of former communist block athletes from the 70s and 80s who have died young from heart attacks and the like.
There have been several peer reviewed studies done on anabolic steroids that have shown that they are safe IF dosage is correct and the patient is monitored. The problem is that many buy them under the table since they are illegal to purchase without prescription and at that point they may be getting a contaminated product.So, I guess it is up to the individual what they do, but how do they know whether what they're doing is harming them or not?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Moral of the story.............don't get implants in Europe.
yep. go American or go home.
and the surgery is really not as bad as you would think. i had zero pain and even went to the movies that night. the only sucky thing is you have to take meds that make you kinda of emotional. i spilled a dr pepper and actually cried. LOL0 -
Lol, someone debated with me about how athletes are physically harming themselves by the enhancements but was a lover of boxing.:laugh:I'm all for "enhancement".
We have the olympic games in a couple of months. I find this whole "drug-free" argument a joke. Let them take whatever they want. It's their decision. Let them run as fast/jump as high as medicine and training can take them.
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Illegal possession of steroids is against the law. It can still be prescribed.Taking steroids is illegal in the US isn't it? If so, it makes studies of side effects more difficult as people aren't usually that keen to confess they're doing something illegal. It's also unlikely, if it's an illegal activity, that it will be monitored by a physician and isn't being abused at a dangerous level.
I don't doubt it, but what needs to be looked at is what the dosage was, what was the cycle like, etc. Abuse of any drug ends up bad.This is a bit anecdotal, and I don't particularly like anecdotes, but there have been plenty of former communist block athletes from the 70s and 80s who have died young from heart attacks and the like.
There have been several peer reviewed studies done on anabolic steroids that have shown that they are safe IF dosage is correct and the patient is monitored. The problem is that many buy them under the table since they are illegal to purchase without prescription and at that point they may be getting a contaminated product.So, I guess it is up to the individual what they do, but how do they know whether what they're doing is harming them or not?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
All fair points - if they are legal, the culture isn't so hidden. After posting, I checked the legality in the UK and possession for use on your self is OK as far as I can work out, but your point about contamination stands. How many people take steroids appropriately and how many abuse (i.e. push the dose to unsafe levels)? If it gets into the abuse zone, then is it almost getting into ED territory with respect to psychological states: part of the person knows it's unhealthy, but part of them just has to keep going?
With respect to the implants, I've no idea whether the same implants have been used elsewhere in the world. It's an issue that was identified in Europe - doesn't mean it hasn't happened in the US, just that if it has, it hasn't been picked up (yet).0 -
My cousin was born crippled. His biological father gave his mom a severe beating while she pregnant and his knees never developed correctly. Later on he got some corrective surgery that wasn't available before and he juiced up to develop the muscles in his legs and had all sorts of physical therapy, but at the same time he started lifting heavy and hasn't stopped since. He still walks with a limp, but he can get around a lot better. Does that make him a crippled guy who can standing overhead press an average to large size man or a crippled guy on roids?0
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Meh, the dude from the OP wasn't cheating in the direct definition of the term. I replied because he was being a douche and I wanted to point out that he might have gained some personal emotional growth from doing it the natural way.
He argued that he did it naturally before, so he was just getting back what he had. I say he still could have benefit from the personal emotional growth. Not every journey to the same destination is the same. Considering his attitude about the whole thing, he definitely could stand to have a humbling experience or two.
They might work just as hard or harder, but delivery of the message is important too. Belittling others for their lack of accomplishments is not the way to go.0 -
Cheating means breaking the rules to gain an advantage.0
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The Truth About Six Pack Abs costs about 30 bucks, and its worth every penny. You can read a comprehensive review of this system at http://www.weightlossreviewer.com0 -
So what are you saying? Would that be cheating or an enhancement?if you are looking for a really FAST way to lose weight you should definitely check out The Truth About Six Pack Abs. Its a fitness system created by fitness guru Michael Geary, and it is by far the most effective weight loss program I have ever tried. I’ve only been using it for a little over two weeks and I’ve already lost 12 pounds. The workouts are fast and effective, not difficult at all, and as far as I know you can’t find them anywhere else.
The Truth About Six Pack Abs costs about 30 bucks, and its worth every penny. You can read a comprehensive review of this system at http://www.weightlossreviewer.com0 -
I think that in order to be cheating, there needs to be an implied or actual breach of the rules.
For instance "first one to lose 20 lbs wins" exercising isn't cheating because that is pretty common and expected unless it was agreed upon not to do so. Liposuction would be cheating because it is rare enough that one wouldn't expect someone to do that and because the weight wasn't lost... You know exactly where it went lol
The swimsuit example would be cheating if it was a suit only one person had access to, but not of both people could have done it and knew they could do it.0 -
So what are you saying? Would that be cheating or an enhancement?
Lol that would be a spammer's ad
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I hope that we all can keep this civil as a debate because I know we all won't see eye to eye on it, but let's try to "hear out" opinions and views on this.
A thread I was on this morning inspired me to post a thread on this. The thread showed progress of a member losing weight and doing good, but "enhancement" was included to assist along the way. Some of the debate went out of bounds, but it got me thinking of whether some thought it was cheating or enhancement?
Think about this for a second: 2 people go on a weight loss plan together and lose 20lbs. They bet each other who can get to it first. One decides to just do it by calorie deficit, the other by calorie deficit and exercise. The person who does exercise loses faster and ends up winning. Now is this "enhancement" to what the other is doing or is it "cheating" if the goal is just to lose weight the fastest?
2 swimmers on the same team with the same speed on a lap wear different suits. One wears a regular Speedo while the other wears one with "friction resistance" in the water. Enhancement or cheating?
A golfer who used to wear glasses gets his eyes "lasiked" so he doesn't have to wear them and slightly improves his vision. He now golfs better. Enhancement or cheating?
Someone takes enhancement drugs to lose weight and improve physique. Many call this "cheating", but why would it be if the others up above wouldn't be considered cheating?
My personal opinion is that anything you can do to "enhance" what you're doing is just that.........enhancement. If a child studies with flash cards and his peers do not and he scores better, then he enhanced his learning skills. If he had the exact answers to the test and just copied them down and then transferred it to the test, then obviously it would be cheating. But where do you draw the line to enhancement and cheating?
Thoughts and be civil.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
What would really be cheating is if the person concerned had the means to his/her disposal and chose to do nothing, they are then cheating themselves.
Nothing wrong with enhancement, it is certainly not cheating. The person who does not, for instance do exercise to assist in their weightloss cannot really turn around to the person who DOES exercise and accuse them of unfairness or gamesmanship, that would be ridiculous.
The person who enhances their performances is giving themselves as best a chance as possible, the fact that the one who does NOT use enhancements is hardly his/her problem, after all, the non-exercise one could always do workouts etc and have the same chance (barring medical reasons why they could not)0 -
So do you think there are any rules in weightloss/gain?Cheating means breaking the rules to gain an advantage.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
SPAM. I'd rather eat it than read about it.if you are looking for a really FAST way to lose weight you should definitely check out The Truth About Six Pack Abs. Its a fitness system created by fitness guru Michael Geary, and it is by far the most effective weight loss program I have ever tried. I’ve only been using it for a little over two weeks and I’ve already lost 12 pounds. The workouts are fast and effective, not difficult at all, and as far as I know you can’t find them anywhere else.
The Truth About Six Pack Abs costs about 30 bucks, and its worth every penny. You can read a comprehensive review of this system at http://www.weightlossreviewer.com
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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