"Enhancement" or "Cheating"? Your opinion.
Replies
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Is it cheating? Context dependent. Are professional bodybuilders (I'm not talking natural BBers) cheating? No because there is an acceptance amongst them that they're all allowed to use. Is it cheating in natural bodybuilding? Yes because it's tested and it's to show what a natural physique is capable of.
If someone wishes to get a massive leg up (steroids give a significant advantage as the results are not physiologically possible without it) then that's their choice. But it's simply not fair to compare someone who is "enhanced" to someone who is not.
People overstate the significance of it, though. There are thousands and thousand of individuals who simply look like crap while being on a ton of that thar. Hard work is needed if you're enhanced or not. I don't think any less of someone if they do it and I don't think they're cheating if they're just doing it for themselves. Once they are amongst non-enhanced then it becomes problematic.0 -
Are sunglasses cheating in baseball on a sunny day?
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Anyone bigger than me must be on roids.
On a serious note, I don't care what people do. The only thing I have a problem with is either (1) belittling others for their natural muscle/strength achievements when yours were drug-assisted or (2) other minimizing the role drugs have played in your athletic achievements.
Steroids work, and they work very, very well. Patting yourself on the back for making great gains while on gear is monumentally douchey.
Couldn't have said it better!0 -
I won't go into detail (that's probably for another thread and I don't want to get this one locked), but there isn't any scientific evidence that shows that "enhancement" drugs (when taken in correct dosage and monitored by a physician) are detrimental to one's health. There may be side effects from individual standpoints, but there are hundreds of HRT clinics around the US alone that do this."Enhancement" is something that serves vanity, at the expense of one's health.
If he prioritizes what his arms look like, then fine, I could care less. But he shouldn't be giving advice to people who care about their health.
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I don’t doubt this one bit but I know people that have used steroids and it seems to be more of a psychological effect than anything else. When they have to stop using and they lose the majority of their gains they can't handle it. Then the cycle starts over again until it eventually becomes an addiction. A lot like plastic surgery for women, they usually can't stop just getting one procedure.0 -
Clearly we need, (knead?), to do some testing here. Double blind, (notice: pairs), and uh. . .filmed. Yesss! Filmed.:bigsmile:
In a swimming competition those could be considered 'flotation' devices.define enhancements? for instance, i have breast enhancements, but i dont think its cheating. Just saying. :bigsmile:
Haha technically not. A good way to tell real ones from fake ones is to see if they float. Real boobs float, fake ones don't.
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I hope that we all can keep this civil as a debate because I know we all won't see eye to eye on it, but let's try to "hear out" opinions and views on this.
A thread I was on this morning inspired me to post a thread on this. The thread showed progress of a member losing weight and doing good, but "enhancement" was included to assist along the way. Some of the debate went out of bounds, but it got me thinking of whether some thought it was cheating or enhancement?
Think about this for a second: 2 people go on a weight loss plan together and lose 20lbs. They bet each other who can get to it first. One decides to just do it by calorie deficit, the other by calorie deficit and exercise. The person who does exercise loses faster and ends up winning. Now is this "enhancement" to what the other is doing or is it "cheating" if the goal is just to lose weight the fastest?
2 swimmers on the same team with the same speed on a lap wear different suits. One wears a regular Speedo while the other wears one with "friction resistance" in the water. Enhancement or cheating?
A golfer who used to wear glasses gets his eyes "lasiked" so he doesn't have to wear them and slightly improves his vision. He now golfs better. Enhancement or cheating?
Someone takes enhancement drugs to lose weight and improve physique. Many call this "cheating", but why would it be if the others up above wouldn't be considered cheating?
My personal opinion is that anything you can do to "enhance" what you're doing is just that.........enhancement. If a child studies with flash cards and his peers do not and he scores better, then he enhanced his learning skills. If he had the exact answers to the test and just copied them down and then transferred it to the test, then obviously it would be cheating. But where do you draw the line to enhancement and cheating?
Thoughts and be civil.
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I'm more annoyed that you put your signature on EVERY POST YOU MAKE.0 -
It depends on the rules of the competition. If it's within the rules, it's "enhancement". If it's outside the rules, it's "cheating". If the rules are nebulous, then it becomes "the topic of angry Internet discussions" 0
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I wouldn't consider it cheating.0
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2 people go on a weight loss plan together and lose 20lbs. They bet each other who can get to it first. One decides to just do it by calorie deficit, the other by calorie deficit and exercise. The person who does exercise loses faster and ends up winning. Now is this "enhancement" to what the other is doing or is it "cheating" if the goal is just to lose weight the fastest?
THE ONE WHO EXERCISES IS JUST SMART. boom.
2 swimmers on the same team with the same speed on a lap wear different suits. One wears a regular Speedo while the other wears one with "friction resistance" in the water. Enhancement or cheating?
THE ONE WEARING FRICTION RESISTANCE IS JUST SMART. again.
A golfer who used to wear glasses gets his eyes "lasiked" so he doesn't have to wear them and slightly improves his vision. He now golfs better. Enhancement or cheating?
HE IS BEING LOGICALLY uhhh SMART.
Someone takes enhancement drugs to lose weight and improve physique. Many call this "cheating", but why would it be if the others up above wouldn't be considered cheating?
NOW THIS IS JUST STUPID.
If a child studies with flash cards and his peers do not and he scores better, then he enhanced his learning skills.
SMART KID.
Obviously this is just an issue between who can use their smarts vs. those who can't.0 -
I missed the earlier post, but if one considers flash cards as 'cheating' then wouldn't MFP be considered cheating as well? I consider flash cards as a 'learning tool', MFP does similar things, it's a tool to use to help you learn better.
I know one person here said they has WLS, and I saw that they stated they are on a strict diet. I understand that and that's great! But what about the others (I know of a few in particular) who gets a procedure done but continues to eat terribly but still loses weight? Is that cheating? They are 'supposed to' eat protein and veggies, but I've watched them drink Ensure, and then continually eat burgers, fries, cake, candy etc.
there is a fine gray line in what could be considered 'cheating'.0 -
I consider all of your examples cheating unless the specific “enhancement†was disclosed to the competitor before the competition are set. As long as the rules of the competition are completely agreed upon then it’s cheating. Plain and simple.0
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So would you consider breast implants "cheating" based on this reply?I am taking this journey to become the best me, not only from a "look good" point of view but from a health point of view. I would consider it cheating if what you are choosing to do sacrifices your health to look good.... What is the point of looking good in the short term if it prevents you from living a full and healthy life in the long term...
but, in the end, the only person you are "cheating" is yourself... unless you are competing.
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I haven't look into it (since I am not nor ever will be in the need)... but do you really take a significant chance to destroy your long term healthy to get them? I know there would be extremely rare surgical risks, but I don't think there is significant evidence that the modern implant would cause serious issues (may be wrong, haven't done the research) I don't necessarily think that cosmetic surgery is cheating since there are instances that no amount of work on the part of the person is going to create the best outcome for them.0 -
In a swimming competition those could be considered 'flotation' devices.define enhancements? for instance, i have breast enhancements, but i dont think its cheating. Just saying. :bigsmile:
Haha technically not. A good way to tell real ones from fake ones is to see if they float. Real boobs float, fake ones don't.
how can you tell if they float unless they are saggy??0 -
I agree and this was one of the reasons that I myself have never used them. I feel if I start, I may not be able to get off. I feel that I've made the right decision about it so far.
I won't go into detail (that's probably for another thread and I don't want to get this one locked), but there isn't any scientific evidence that shows that "enhancement" drugs (when taken in correct dosage and monitored by a physician) are detrimental to one's health. There may be side effects from individual standpoints, but there are hundreds of HRT clinics around the US alone that do this."Enhancement" is something that serves vanity, at the expense of one's health.
If he prioritizes what his arms look like, then fine, I could care less. But he shouldn't be giving advice to people who care about their health.
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I don’t doubt this one bit but I know people that have used steroids and it seems to be more of a psychological effect than anything else. When they have to stop using and they lose the majority of their gains they can't handle it. Then the cycle starts over again until it eventually becomes an addiction. A lot like plastic surgery for women, they usually can't stop just getting one procedure.
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Get used to it.I'm more annoyed that you put your signature on EVERY POST YOU MAKE.
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Using steroids is enhancing the "chemical processing" in the body. When you consume food, you are encouraging a chemical process in the body. When you exercise, you encourage a chemical process in the body.Someone takes enhancement drugs to lose weight and improve physique. Many call this "cheating", but why would it be if the others up above wouldn't be considered cheating?
NOW THIS IS JUST STUPID.
Obviously this is just an issue between who can use their smarts vs. those who can't.
Plastic surgery is enhancement. Anti wrinkle cream is an enhancement. Make up is an enhancement. If the dosage is correct and monitored by a doctor and WORKS for physical enhancement, then why is it considered stupid?
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I think where the line gets drawn is when the word "competition" comes up.I would only think it is "cheating" if you are in a competition or something and use resources outside of what is natural for you. Lasik I would consider cheating because it's just correcting something that is wrong. Eating right with a calorie deficit and exercise is not cheating because that is something everyone can pretty much easily do. Using enhancement drugs to improve physique I don't think is wrong or "cheating" unless they are in a competition where it is clear that it IS cheating, but if someone who loves working out wants to "bulk up" or slim down or whatever and uses those resources I say it is just enhancement.
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I agree, in a true "Competition", everyone has the same rules. I would not play a basketball game where one team one allowed to tuck the ball under their arm and run, and I was expected to dribble. Therefore, I would not enter a weight loss competition, if it were stated, that I was NOT allowed to work out, and the others were. If it is not clearly stated that these "enhancements" are forbidden, then it would def. be an enhancement. Trust me, if I would have been allowed to "tuck and run" in highschool basketball, I would have been a LOT better! :laugh:0 -
Anyone bigger than me must be on roids.
On a serious note, I don't care what people do. The only thing I have a problem with is either (1) belittling others for their natural muscle/strength achievements when yours were drug-assisted or (2) other minimizing the role drugs have played in your athletic achievements.
Steroids work, and they work very, very well. Patting yourself on the back for making great gains while on gear is monumentally douchey.
I was going to post, then I read this and decided it was better than what I would have posted. Couldn't agree more.0 -
Who cares?0
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People are super elitist when it comes to working out and getting in shape for some reason. You have naturalist people who look down on everyone who take anything at all. I have seen people put down others simply for taking vitamins. I think it is just one of those things where everybody has an opinion and most of the time the people are uneducated in the matter and speak out of pure emotion.
There is no such thing as cheating in fitness. Every single person has a different goal and there are many different paths one can take to reach it. To each his/her own!0 -
Okay, saying this might get me in trouble but, I don't care as long as you are honest. If you lost a lot of weight by liposuction, don't tell people it was JUST diet and working out. If you take supplements that help you out then so be it. As long as you are honest and don't try to force me to do it, then why should I force you not to?0
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cheating:
Verb:
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Deceive or trick.
Given the definition, I believe the use of "enhancements" is cheating only if the enhancements are forbidden by the rule of the sport or the rules of society.
The enhancements discussed this morning may be stupid, or a "short cut", but I don't see how they can be considered "cheating"
I agree with this. You can't "CHEAT" unless there is competition. IF you go beyond the rules Ie in a tested comp.... you are cheating. If that competition is UNTESTED and its a given people are using these so called enhancements, then its not cheating. If somebody was recreationally using an "enhancement' how is that cheating if there are no rules to be bound by or competition involved?0 -
Anyone bigger than me must be on roids.
On a serious note, I don't care what people do. The only thing I have a problem with is either (1) belittling others for their natural muscle/strength achievements when yours were drug-assisted or (2) other minimizing the role drugs have played in your athletic achievements.
Steroids work, and they work very, very well. Patting yourself on the back for making great gains while on gear is monumentally douchey.
That reminds me of my gear. I am a powerlifter. I have a bench shirt, I've trained in squat suits, we use wrist wraps and some of the powerlifting shirts are so stiff they'll stand up on their own. I've been accused of cheating as well, because my WORLD RECORD was in a bench press shirt. Just because I wear a shirt and the every day average person doesn't, apparently makes that cheating. Thats like saying my alternative bench press form is cheating, because I arch my back and change the motion the bar moves. These aren't cheating, just "enhancements" and even "safety measures/precautions".
The difference. IF I said I were to do a 225.7lb bench press RAW or withheld my bench shirt as a fact, that would be cheating/lying. I'm not dumb enough to do that, but some people have gone off on me for "cheating" on my lifts. I'd like to see any random fool toss on a bench shirt and pull off triple their bench with no practice. I've trained hard and harder than many ever will, my bench shirt doesn't change that.0 -
Anyone bigger than me must be on roids.
On a serious note, I don't care what people do. The only thing I have a problem with is either (1) belittling others for their natural muscle/strength achievements when yours were drug-assisted or (2) other minimizing the role drugs have played in your athletic achievements.
Steroids work, and they work very, very well. Patting yourself on the back for making great gains while on gear is monumentally douchey.
I was going to post, then I read this and decided it was better than what I would have posted. Couldn't agree more.
+1 on this. Steroids, when used correctly, are no different than a multi-vitamin (in my opinion). The only problem that arises is when people on steroids belittle the efforts of those that choose to go "all natural."0 -
To me this is no different than the bike racers that wear special clothing and helmets, runners who wear special shoes, downhill skiers who wear friction resistant clothing, etc.That reminds me of my gear. I am a powerlifter. I have a bench shirt, I've trained in squat suits, we use wrist wraps and some of the powerlifting shirts are so stiff they'll stand up on their own. I've been accused of cheating as well, because my WORLD RECORD was in a bench press shirt. Just because I wear a shirt and the every day average person doesn't, apparently makes that cheating. Thats like saying my alternative bench press form is cheating, because I arch my back and change the motion the bar moves. These aren't cheating, just "enhancements" and even "safety measures/precautions".
The difference. IF I said I were to do a 225.7lb bench press RAW or withheld my bench shirt as a fact, that would be cheating/lying. I'm not dumb enough to do that, but some people have gone off on me for "cheating" on my lifts. I'd like to see any random fool toss on a bench shirt and pull off triple their bench with no practice. I've trained hard and harder than many ever will, my bench shirt doesn't change that.
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To me this is no different than the bike racers that wear special clothing and helmets, runners who wear special shoes, downhill skiers who wear friction resistant clothing, etc.That reminds me of my gear. I am a powerlifter. I have a bench shirt, I've trained in squat suits, we use wrist wraps and some of the powerlifting shirts are so stiff they'll stand up on their own. I've been accused of cheating as well, because my WORLD RECORD was in a bench press shirt. Just because I wear a shirt and the every day average person doesn't, apparently makes that cheating. Thats like saying my alternative bench press form is cheating, because I arch my back and change the motion the bar moves. These aren't cheating, just "enhancements" and even "safety measures/precautions".
The difference. IF I said I were to do a 225.7lb bench press RAW or withheld my bench shirt as a fact, that would be cheating/lying. I'm not dumb enough to do that, but some people have gone off on me for "cheating" on my lifts. I'd like to see any random fool toss on a bench shirt and pull off triple their bench with no practice. I've trained hard and harder than many ever will, my bench shirt doesn't change that.
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Exactly!!! Whats the difference between that and using a personal choice to use "gear".... I don't see one. I personally won't unless my income were to depend upon physical performance or appearance... but to each their own! 0 -
What happens when enhancements stop being used? Is the individual just as good or does this individual have to try harder to maintain or even be on the same level? I believe what you're referring to is technology. In that case the better technology always wins! Call it what you want, once your enhancements/technology run out you will regress:indifferent: :indifferent:0
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"Enhancement" is something that serves vanity, at the expense of one's health.
If he prioritizes what his arms look like, then fine, I could care less. But he shouldn't be giving advice to people who care about their health.
In some ways I couldn't care less ( i.e it's up to them what they do - "could care less" means that you are concerned about what they do) what people do to their bodies, but I totally agree it's missed the point when the "enhancement", and I guess we're using this as a euphemism for steroids and possibly surgery (implants, lipo) can actually have a detrimental effect on your health. Completely misses the point of what most people are trying to accomplish.0 -
lubrication... Cheating or enhancement???
since we are asking crazy stuff, why not... what would lubrication be then?
I say if you can do something to achieve a goal and make that goal easier, then it is a good thing. As long as you reach the goal. Its YOUR body, so if you want to put chemicals into it, or in the case of lubrication, onto it.. then go for it, its your body, who is anyone else to judge who or what you are?0 -
So would you consider breast implants "cheating" based on this reply?I am taking this journey to become the best me, not only from a "look good" point of view but from a health point of view. I would consider it cheating if what you are choosing to do sacrifices your health to look good.... What is the point of looking good in the short term if it prevents you from living a full and healthy life in the long term...
but, in the end, the only person you are "cheating" is yourself... unless you are competing.
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I haven't look into it (since I am not nor ever will be in the need)... but do you really take a significant chance to destroy your long term healthy to get them? I know there would be extremely rare surgical risks, but I don't think there is significant evidence that the modern implant would cause serious issues (may be wrong, haven't done the research) I don't necessarily think that cosmetic surgery is cheating since there are instances that no amount of work on the part of the person is going to create the best outcome for them.
You are wrong. Thousands of women in Europe are currently having repeat surgery to remove faulty implants which could potentially damage their health. It's started a big debate over here about licensing restrictions for implants.0
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