Starving on Keto!
Replies
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Ketosis =/= Ketoacidosis. Those are two very different conditions. Ketoacidosis is dangerous. Ketosis is perfectly normal, and happens anytime your body is fasting in fat burning mode, between meals, while sleeping, etc. A ketogenic diet just manipulates blood glucose to keep the body in a state of ketosis more often. The thing is, it does that by burning the dietary fat eaten, it doesn't actually burn any extra body fat than a non-ketogenic diet does. Strictly speaking, it's a purely personal preference as to whether someone wants to eat a ketogenic diet or not in general, but deciding to do it "just to lose weight" is a waste of time.Okay-- I'm sorry, I'll chime in here, although I almost never, ever come to these threads.
I have to ask-- what in the world are you thinking? You're looking for ketones in your urine as a GOOD thing? My daughter is a juvenile diabetic, and was in the hospital near death due to diabetic keto-acidosis-- in short, ketones in her urine. Her body couldn't burn sugar, so it turned to fat and muscle to survive.
When your body burns fat and muscle for fuel instead of sugar LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO, the byproducts are toxic-- ketones. Any person with any sense will tell you that's NOT A GOOD THING.
You came here for advice. I advise you to abandon this nonsense and eat a sensible freaking diet. 1200 calories in and of itself isn't so bad. But for heaven's sake, not to mention YOUR BODY'S sake, please eat sensibly.0 -
Okay-- I'm sorry, I'll chime in here, although I almost never, ever come to these threads.
I have to ask-- what in the world are you thinking? You're looking for ketones in your urine as a GOOD thing? My daughter is a juvenile diabetic, and was in the hospital near death due to diabetic keto-acidosis-- in short, ketones in her urine. Her body couldn't burn sugar, so it turned to fat and muscle to survive.
When your body burns fat and muscle for fuel instead of sugar LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO, the byproducts are toxic-- ketones. Any person with any sense will tell you that's NOT A GOOD THING.
You came here for advice. I advise you to abandon this nonsense and eat a sensible freaking diet. 1200 calories in and of itself isn't so bad. But for heaven's sake, not to mention YOUR BODY'S sake, please eat sensibly.
WRONG. Go back to the doctor and get the correct explanation. Ketosis/lipolysis and ketoacidosis are two completely different metabolic processes which share only the same by-product and unfortunately similar names. The state of ketoacidosis is due to wildly high blood sugar and a failed pancreas, whereas ketosis is the result of the body manufacturing glucose to prevent low blood sugar.
So to be clear: you simply cannot get into a state of ketoacidosis by eating low-carb. In fact, even Type 1 and Type 2 diabetics cannot enter into a ketoacidic state by eating low-carb. You can only get into that state by consuming too much high-glycemic food and producing little to no insulin to stabilize this out-of-control-high blood sugar (or by being so insulin-resistant that the insulin does no good... and low-carb eating fixes insulin resistance).
This.0 -
I thought the entire point of a keto diet was so you didn't have to count calories, and then had to walk the tightrope of slowly increasing your carbs at the end for fear of gaining it all back?
I would eat like a -monster- on a keto diet.0 -
I would just like to say be careful! just because a diet is in a book or becomes a fad doesn't mean it's safe. Ketoacidosis is not healthy! it can actually be fatal depending on the extent. Yes, your body changes it 's metabolism to burn fat when it doesn't have enough sugar but increased ketone bodies make your blood more acidic. It's a survival mode the body goes into when it thinks it's starving and could cause death. People with type 1 diabetes can have problems with this when they don't have enough insulin to take glucose (sugar) into their cells for use. Diabetics with eating disorders also use this method (under-dosing insulin) to try and lose weight. so again... its is not good for your body. I don't mean to sound bossy here, I'm just saying you might want to do a little research before you put your body through something that could have long term consequences.0
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It's a high - fat diet, which means you don't feel full, like when you eat meat or veggies. But, you reach your calorie count faster. I would switch diets.
So eating low fat foods will keep me feeling full?0 -
Ketosis =/= Ketoacidosis. Those are two very different conditions. Ketoacidosis is dangerous. Ketosis is perfectly normal, and happens anytime your body is fasting in fat burning mode, between meals, while sleeping, etc. A ketogenic diet just manipulates blood glucose to keep the body in a state of ketosis more often. The thing is, it does that by burning the dietary fat eaten, it doesn't actually burn any extra body fat than a non-ketogenic diet does. Strictly speaking, it's a purely personal preference as to whether someone wants to eat a ketogenic diet or not in general, but deciding to do it "just to lose weight" is a waste of time.Okay-- I'm sorry, I'll chime in here, although I almost never, ever come to these threads.
I have to ask-- what in the world are you thinking? You're looking for ketones in your urine as a GOOD thing? My daughter is a juvenile diabetic, and was in the hospital near death due to diabetic keto-acidosis-- in short, ketones in her urine. Her body couldn't burn sugar, so it turned to fat and muscle to survive.
When your body burns fat and muscle for fuel instead of sugar LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO, the byproducts are toxic-- ketones. Any person with any sense will tell you that's NOT A GOOD THING.
You came here for advice. I advise you to abandon this nonsense and eat a sensible freaking diet. 1200 calories in and of itself isn't so bad. But for heaven's sake, not to mention YOUR BODY'S sake, please eat sensibly.
yes, I do see that-- thanks. I seem to remember a friend of mine having to put his epileptic daughter on a ketogenic diet, now that we're discussing it. He was trying to control her seizures, and doctors suggested it. She was miserable, and her growth was positively stunted. She was maybe 12 or 13 at the time. It was a horrible existence.
I'll stay on record as believing this to be madness. I personally have hurt myself by dieting like a dope. While my doctor says I'm not responsible for crushing my thyroid, I know that eating 1200 calories, and training for a half marathon without eating back my exercise calories surely didn't help. My thyroid died, and my weight came back on, on a 1400 calorie diet.
This is for life, people-- it's a journey, not a destination. Sure, you can eat like an idiot and put your body into ketosis-- but can you sustain that forever? Lose your weight sensibly, in a way you can live with for the rest of your life.
This is your public service announcement.5 -
Ketogenic diets lose weight faster in the short term, because cutting out carbs leads to a reduction in stored muscle glycogen. Muscles store about 2 pounds of glycogen (sometimes more or less) when full. Glycogen takes 4 parts of water to one part of glycogen for storage. So when you cut carbs, and your body exhausts the 2 pounds of glycogen in your body, you also drop 8 pounds in water weight. This is why people who go on ketogenic diets always seem to lose 10 pounds or so seemingly over night. It's not fat, it's water and glycogen. In controlled conditions, eating similar calorie and similar protein levels, ketogenic diets don't burn any more fat than non-ketogenic diets. And then when you lengthen the trial out to 6 months to a year, the non-ketogenic diets catch up with the water and glycogen loss (less body weight requires less glycogen storage) and shows equal total weight loss to non-ketogenic diets.
Waste of time, honestly. Ketogenic diets don't lose fat any faster than any other diet. You just lose a lot of water weight doing keto.
I am just doing this for weight loss. It's not too difficult except for being hungry all the time!Are you on this for a health reason or for weight loss? I did this (high fat keto) for a while for a seizure disorder/migraines and it really helped, but even with THAT I couldn't stick to it. I try to keep my carbs low-ish, but yeah. I can't imagine anyone doing this for weight loss.
Also, at your height and weight, you don't really have that much weight to lose, you have a BMI of 23. You should be focusing on strength training and body recomposition, not weight loss.
I don't agree with your take on ketogenic diets, but I will agree at her height and weight some weight lifting and body sculpting would be more in order than weight loss.1 -
Okay-- I'm sorry, I'll chime in here, although I almost never, ever come to these threads.
I have to ask-- what in the world are you thinking? You're looking for ketones in your urine as a GOOD thing? My daughter is a juvenile diabetic, and was in the hospital near death due to diabetic keto-acidosis-- in short, ketones in her urine. Her body couldn't burn sugar, so it turned to fat and muscle to survive.
Type I diabetics cannot do Ketosis, it is very dangerous. I believe it has to do with the Ketones (sugar) building up and having no insulin response causes an overload of ketones which is very dangerous. Ketosis shouldn't be a problem for a person who has a healthy insulin response. If the system is broken, then yeah, there is a problem.0 -
I am doing a version of this keeping my carbs at 30 g or less and getting them from veggies. I love it so far. I don't feel bloated, I'm energized, and never feel hungry. I honestly feel like i finally found what works for me. I hate bread and rice makes me sick but i was still eating them because i wanted to eat something along with my proteins. Eat more good stuff. Your body is asking maybe begging you for food so eat. Just dont binge on the bad stuff like chips and french fries!
Good luck!0 -
but can you sustain that forever?
You make a good point, sustainability is vital. I find that my non-grain whole foods/meats diet is quite sustainable and because I eat plenty of veggies, meats, and fat, my diet is naturally lower carb than many.
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I think the issue here is that you can't do a keto diet and do low fat at the same time. Your body has no fuel, that is why she is feeling hungry all the time. Her body is crying "FEED ME, SEYMOUR" !!!!4
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I think the issue here is that you can't do a keto diet and do low fat at the same time. Your body has no fuel, that is why she is feeling hungry all the time. Her body is crying "FEED ME, SEYMOUR" !!!!
LOL I think you are right!
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Any significantly altered nutritional plan should be done under medical consultation. You have little weight to loose and this may be why ketosis is not working well for you. Body builders do it to loose the last of the fat they have sometimes but they have to take in a massive amount of calories and often struggle to get enough protien. I agree that if it isn't working for you, try something else. Somehow your body thinks you are starving and is therefore telling you to eat. You will likely have to get it out of that mode before anything will be successful. Good luck reaching your fitness goals. 1
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Anything that requires you to "drastically deprive your body" doesn't sound like a healthy option. One year from now, five years from now.. are you going to be eating the same way? Likely not, which means your body will gain the weight back. Honestly, I don't know much about that diet, but it my opinon, it seems like a quick weight loss strategy rather than a healthy, lifelong, long-term lifestyle.0
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I think you're going over the top on protein, which is about 56% ketogenic compared to fat at about 98% - in other words excess protein ends up being converted to glucose.
So I would "step away from the chicken" and get more oily fish or fatty meats in place of lean protein.
If you're having a protein shake for breakfast aim for 20 or 30g of protein max.0 -
It's a high - fat diet, which means you don't feel full, like when you eat meat or veggies. But, you reach your calorie count faster. I would switch diets.
What? Meat and veggies IS a keto diet. If you eat nothing but meat and veggies, that's not very high in carbohydrate at all. High fat diets are usually very satiating.0 -
I'll stay on record as believing this to be madness. I personally have hurt myself by dieting like a dope. While my doctor says I'm not responsible for crushing my thyroid, I know that eating 1200 calories, and training for a half marathon without eating back my exercise calories surely didn't help. My thyroid died, and my weight came back on, on a 1400 calorie diet.
This is for life, people-- it's a journey, not a destination. Sure, you can eat like an idiot and put your body into ketosis-- but can you sustain that forever? Lose your weight sensibly, in a way you can live with for the rest of your life.
This is your public service announcement.
I agree with you that you need to do whatever you can sustain, if you treat Atkins like a fad diet, it will be a fad diet.
THAT SAID, I understand that YOU think that it's madness but ketosis is not harmful, ketones in your urine is not harmful... you can get ketones in your urine even if you're not on a low carb diet. Some people go into ketosis every night while they sleep, people can slip in and out of ketosis during the day even without trying. If ketones were dangerous, doctors would tell us to wake up in the middle of the night to eat something or risk going into ketosis.
Anyways, there have been plenty of studies that have shown that low carb/ketogenic diets are safe. A ketogenic diet to me might be... in the morning I eat an egg omelette, cooked in a little bit of butter. I slice some tomato to eat on the side, maybe with a bit of mayo. For lunch, I have a hamburger patty, a dill pickle spear, and a salad. For supper, I eat two chicken breasts, a few cups of broccoli, and some cheese. Dessert if I am hungry for it is a handful of fresh strawberries.
I'm not sure what about that diet would be so scary to cause people to think that it's dangerous, in fact it seems to be a way that people might eat normally without ever stopping to think that it's low carb or ketogenic at all.2 -
but can you sustain that forever?
You make a good point, sustainability is vital. I find that my non-grain whole foods/meats diet is quite sustainable and because I eat plenty of veggies, meats, and fat, my diet is naturally lower carb than many.
This is my low carb diet too. I eat berries and nuts for my snacks which is like dessert for me.0 -
I'll stay on record as believing this to be madness. I personally have hurt myself by dieting like a dope. While my doctor says I'm not responsible for crushing my thyroid, I know that eating 1200 calories, and training for a half marathon without eating back my exercise calories surely didn't help. My thyroid died, and my weight came back on, on a 1400 calorie diet.
This is for life, people-- it's a journey, not a destination. Sure, you can eat like an idiot and put your body into ketosis-- but can you sustain that forever? Lose your weight sensibly, in a way you can live with for the rest of your life.
This is your public service announcement.
I agree with you that you need to do whatever you can sustain, if you treat Atkins like a fad diet, it will be a fad diet.
THAT SAID, I understand that YOU think that it's madness but ketosis is not harmful, ketones in your urine is not harmful... you can get ketones in your urine even if you're not on a low carb diet. Some people go into ketosis every night while they sleep, people can slip in and out of ketosis during the day even without trying. If ketones were dangerous, doctors would tell us to wake up in the middle of the night to eat something or risk going into ketosis.
Anyways, there have been plenty of studies that have shown that low carb/ketogenic diets are safe. A ketogenic diet to me might be... in the morning I eat an egg omelette, cooked in a little bit of butter. I slice some tomato to eat on the side, maybe with a bit of mayo. For lunch, I have a hamburger patty, a dill pickle spear, and a salad. For supper, I eat two chicken breasts, a few cups of broccoli, and some cheese. Dessert if I am hungry for it is a handful of fresh strawberries.
I'm not sure what about that diet would be so scary to cause people to think that it's dangerous, in fact it seems to be a way that people might eat normally without ever stopping to think that it's low carb or ketogenic at all.
What you just said 0 -
if keto is working for you, great but if you're really that hungry mabey you should try a balanced diet for a few weeks. i've done a protein diet myself in the past and sometimes you just need some good old stodgy carbs. i'd recommend a potassium suppliment while on high levels of protein.0
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I just made my diary public. I'm supposed to eat 1200 calories a day but I usually go over. Also I'm 5'1" and 122 lbs if that helps anything.
The keto diet is a high-protein, extremely low-carb diet that requires you to eat every 2.5-3 hours. After depriving yourself dramatically of carbs in the first stage, your body goes into ketosis and ketones are detectable by strips in your urine. Then, supposedly, fat burns and muscle is not lost because you're eating so much protein.
You are not meant to eat every 3hrs or so on a keto diet. These type of diets usually done as 3 meals because they keep you satiated between meals. People choose low carb/keto as they can easily comply with diet as not constantly hungry.0 -
The keto diet is a high-protein, extremely low-carb diet that requires you to eat every 2.5-3 hours. After depriving yourself dramatically of carbs in the first stage, your body goes into ketosis and ketones are detectable by strips in your urine. Then, supposedly, fat burns and muscle is not lost because you're eating so much protein.
No, no, no, no, no. If you're going to follow a ketogenic diet, you should learn what a ketogenic diet is. Ketogenic diets are absolutely not a high-protein diet. They are high fat. Keeping your fat low sabotages the diet such that your body begins to burn muscle for energy. This could also cause you to fluctuate in and out of ketosis, feel like ****, and be hungry much of the time. You should aim for nutrient ratios around 60% fat, 35% protein, and 5% carbs.0 -
To each their own. I happen to believe that carbohydrates have a direct relationship to the increased in heart disease, cancers, and diabetes among humans. Man has consumed fats, proteins, and low glycemic carbohydrates, when in season, for over 2 million years with no known outbreak of heart disease, cancers, or diabetes. Only in the last 30 years has obesity, cancers, heart disease and diabetes have become an epidemic. What has changed in our society? Processed fried foods in vegetable oil and processed carbohydrates (sugar). And don;t give me this crap about people not exercising anymore and we move less. That's nonsense.
This fairy tale that the government has been feeding us for the last 30 years that fat is bad is absolutely ridiculous.2 -
Edit: Do not feel like debating this......again.0
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Edit: Do not feel like debating this....again.0
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To each their own. I happen to believe that carbohydrates have a direct relationship to the increased in heart disease, cancers, and diabetes among humans. Man has consumed fats, proteins, and low glycemic carbohydrates, when in season, for over 2 million years with no known outbreak of heart disease, cancers, or diabetes. Only in the last 30 years has obesity, cancers, heart disease and diabetes have become an epidemic. What has changed in our society? Processed fried foods in vegetable oil and processed carbohydrates (sugar). And don;t give me this crap about people not exercising anymore and we move less. That's nonsense.
This fairy tale that the government has been feeding us for the last 30 years that fat is bad is absolutely ridiculous.
Man's average life expectancy has increased significantly in recent years, and we're talking about conditions that generally are found in older populations. If on average, a human being only lives to be 40 or 50, chances are good they haven't lived long enough to develop these problems. Diagnostics have also seen significant advances in the last 100 years ago, so we in all likelihood really have no way of telling what it is people died of all those years ago.
Another thing to consider. About 2/3rds of the world's population live in Asia, where the diets tend to be heavily carb based, and in places where the traditional diets have been followed, the incidence of these diseases is generally low. Introduction of "western" diet does tend to increase risks however (along with weight).
A lot has changed in the last 100 years. Our environment is not what it used to be. We're breathing more polluted air, drinking more polluted water, are not required to be as physically active, or cook and eat foods where we know what exactly is going into our bodies. I believe that it is rather simplistic to point the finger at carbs as the great villain.5 -
To each their own. I happen to believe that carbohydrates have a direct relationship to the increased in heart disease, cancers, and diabetes among humans. Man has consumed fats, proteins, and low glycemic carbohydrates, when in season, for over 2 million years with no known outbreak of heart disease, cancers, or diabetes. Only in the last 30 years has obesity, cancers, heart disease and diabetes have become an epidemic. What has changed in our society? Processed fried foods in vegetable oil and processed carbohydrates (sugar). And don;t give me this crap about people not exercising anymore and we move less. That's nonsense.
This fairy tale that the government has been feeding us for the last 30 years that fat is bad is absolutely ridiculous.
Man's average life expectancy has increased significantly in recent years, and we're talking about conditions that generally are found in older populations. If on average, a human being only lives to be 40 or 50, chances are good they haven't lived long enough to develop these problems. Diagnostics have also seen significant advances in the last 100 years ago, so we in all likelihood really have no way of telling what it is people died of all those years ago.
Another thing to consider. About 2/3rds of the world's population live in Asia, where the diets tend to be heavily carb based, and in places where the traditional diets have been followed, the incidence of these diseases is generally low. Introduction of "western" diet does tend to increase risks however (along with weight).
A lot has changed in the last 100 years. Our environment is not what it used to be. We're breathing more polluted air, drinking more polluted water, are not required to be as physically active, or cook and eat foods where we know what exactly is going into our bodies. I believe that it is rather simplistic to point the finger at carbs as the great villain.
^^this
In addition, most of the food 'back in the day' or the 'hunter/gatherer" times which I think is what is being referred to with the 2 million years ago comment (although the first recorded Homo Sapiens were actually from only about 200,000 years ago) was actually from the gatherers not the hunters. Approximately 90% of the food actually came from nuts and berries and the like - not particularly low in carbs and not necessarily high in fats (if mainly fruit). Only about 10% actually came from meat sources.3 -
I think the issue here is that you can't do a keto diet and do low fat at the same time. Your body has no fuel, that is why she is feeling hungry all the time. Her body is crying "FEED ME, SEYMOUR" !!!!
I agree. Up your fat intake!1 -
To each their own. I happen to believe that carbohydrates have a direct relationship to the increased in heart disease, cancers, and diabetes among humans. Man has consumed fats, proteins, and low glycemic carbohydrates, when in season, for over 2 million years with no known outbreak of heart disease, cancers, or diabetes. Only in the last 30 years has obesity, cancers, heart disease and diabetes have become an epidemic. What has changed in our society? Processed fried foods in vegetable oil and processed carbohydrates (sugar). And don;t give me this crap about people not exercising anymore and we move less. That's nonsense.
This fairy tale that the government has been feeding us for the last 30 years that fat is bad is absolutely ridiculous.
Man's average life expectancy has increased significantly in recent years, and we're talking about conditions that generally are found in older populations. If on average, a human being only lives to be 40 or 50, chances are good they haven't lived long enough to develop these problems. Diagnostics have also seen significant advances in the last 100 years ago, so we in all likelihood really have no way of telling what it is people died of all those years ago.
Another thing to consider. About 2/3rds of the world's population live in Asia, where the diets tend to be heavily carb based, and in places where the traditional diets have been followed, the incidence of these diseases is generally low. Introduction of "western" diet does tend to increase risks however (along with weight).
A lot has changed in the last 100 years. Our environment is not what it used to be. We're breathing more polluted air, drinking more polluted water, are not required to be as physically active, or cook and eat foods where we know what exactly is going into our bodies. I believe that it is rather simplistic to point the finger at carbs as the great villain.
^^this
In addition, most of the food 'back in the day' or the 'hunter/gatherer" times which I think is what is being referred to with the 2 million years ago comment (although the first recorded Homo Sapiens were actually from only about 200,000 years ago) was actually from the gatherers not the hunters. Approximately 90% of the food actually came from nuts and berries and the like - not particularly low in carbs and not necessarily high in fats (if mainly fruit). Only about 10% actually came from meat sources.
He's not talking about homo-sapiens he's talking about homo-neanderthal
Who were around less than a million years ago and are argued not even to be of the same species as homo-sapiens. I sort of assumed we were not discussing different species.1 -
To each their own. I happen to believe that carbohydrates have a direct relationship to the increased in heart disease, cancers, and diabetes among humans. Man has consumed fats, proteins, and low glycemic carbohydrates, when in season, for over 2 million years with no known outbreak of heart disease, cancers, or diabetes. Only in the last 30 years has obesity, cancers, heart disease and diabetes have become an epidemic. What has changed in our society? Processed fried foods in vegetable oil and processed carbohydrates (sugar). And don;t give me this crap about people not exercising anymore and we move less. That's nonsense.
This fairy tale that the government has been feeding us for the last 30 years that fat is bad is absolutely ridiculous.
Man's average life expectancy has increased significantly in recent years, and we're talking about conditions that generally are found in older populations. If on average, a human being only lives to be 40 or 50, chances are good they haven't lived long enough to develop these problems. Diagnostics have also seen significant advances in the last 100 years ago, so we in all likelihood really have no way of telling what it is people died of all those years ago.
Another thing to consider. About 2/3rds of the world's population live in Asia, where the diets tend to be heavily carb based, and in places where the traditional diets have been followed, the incidence of these diseases is generally low. Introduction of "western" diet does tend to increase risks however (along with weight).
A lot has changed in the last 100 years. Our environment is not what it used to be. We're breathing more polluted air, drinking more polluted water, are not required to be as physically active, or cook and eat foods where we know what exactly is going into our bodies. I believe that it is rather simplistic to point the finger at carbs as the great villain.
^^this
In addition, most of the food 'back in the day' or the 'hunter/gatherer" times which I think is what is being referred to with the 2 million years ago comment (although the first recorded Homo Sapiens were actually from only about 200,000 years ago) was actually from the gatherers not the hunters. Approximately 90% of the food actually came from nuts and berries and the like - not particularly low in carbs and not necessarily high in fats (if mainly fruit). Only about 10% actually came from meat sources.
He's not talking about homo-sapiens he's talking about homo-neanderthal
Who were around less than a million years ago and are argued not even to be of the same species as homo-sapiens. I sort of assumed we were not discussing different species.
Right. Depending on classification, they're either a sub-species or a separate one. Not to mention, we do not have a huge amount of data on what early homo sapiens or neaderthals actually ate, and chances are, the diets were highly variable, on the basis of population distribution. My friend with a terminal degree in anthropology just laughs when she hears about these diets.0
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