Those of you that lift heavy and distance run

Nopedotjpeg

What does your training schedule look like? What kind of lifting do you do and how far are you running? Are you focusing on one of the two or trying to improve both? Do you ever running hindering your recovery time for lifting or vice versa?

I'm currently doing Practical Programming (a linear progression strength training program 3x a week) and do a modified C25K with a friend (usually on off days, but it tends to be whenever we can coordinate our schedules). I've only been doing this particular strength training program for 2 weeks now. Before that it was a squat/bench/deadlift MWF schedule. Every now and then it seems the soreness of my back and legs makes the running grueling. That usually happens when I do the running on the same day though. I'd like to do a half-marathon in December or January, but it seems like that and strength gains become counterproductive to one another. Does anyone have any experience training for both strength and running endurance at the same time?

Nopedotjpeg

Really...nobody?

sleepytexan

I don't run, but I am a cyclist, paddleboarder, dancer and spin instructor. I started lifting heavy about a month ago and it is literally wiping me out; it seems I can't do both heavy lifting and intense cardio. Especially since I hit 100# on the weights, everything else is suffering - terribly. This past week I made myself take 4 consecutive days off to recover and hopefully prevent further exhaustion. I've been back on it 2 days (spin Tues and did 105# squats 95# deadlifts and a few other things yesterday. I have to teach spin again in about an hour and I can tell right now I'm going to struggle.

Prior to starting lifting I did about 13-15 hours week cardio. I was never tired. Now I'm doing 3 hours lifting and 3 hours cardio, and I'm spent.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to keep doing everything I love, but I don't know how it can happen when I'm falling over by 6 pm.

I've posted about my fatigue on here and people have suggested I was overtraining. I am taking care to eat around 2000 calories a day and 30 % protein, so I guess they are right. Many people have said you can't push both weights and cardio hard at the same time. I think they're right.

laurcampbell

I don't run, but I am a cyclist, paddleboarder, dancer and spin instructor. I started lifting heavy about a month ago and it is literally wiping me out; it seems I can't do both heavy lifting and intense cardio. Especially since I hit 100# on the weights, everything else is suffering - terribly. This past week I made myself take 4 consecutive days off to recover and hopefully prevent further exhaustion. I've been back on it 2 days (spin Tues and did 105# squats 95# deadlifts and a few other things yesterday. I have to teach spin again in about an hour and I can tell right now I'm going to struggle.

Prior to starting lifting I did about 13-15 hours week cardio. I was never tired. Now I'm doing 3 hours lifting and 3 hours cardio, and I'm spent.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to keep doing everything I love, but I don't know how it can happen when I'm falling over by 6 pm.

I've posted about my fatigue on here and people have suggested I was overtraining. I am taking care to eat around 2000 calories a day and 30 % protein, so I guess they are right. Many people have said you can't push both weights and cardio hard at the same time. I think they're right.

I was really hoping there was a way to do this as well - I am a long distance runner and am usually training for a marathon - I am currently training for a marathon where I am trying to increase my speed and also trying to include more weight lifting as well - guess I am going to have to figure out a nice balance to make this work - thanks for your feedback!

Iluvchopsticks

I am doing something similar, but like you am pretty early into the lifting programming and am curious once my weights get higher how it may interfere with the running. Hopefully someone will chime in with more experience. Right now I run and lift on the same days (with the exception of long runs every other week) and usually take a day off in between. I run in the morning and lift in the evenings so get almost 12 hours recovery in the middle. I don't know if this is the best approach but it is what works best for my schedule at the moment. I have a marathon in October. I may back off the lifting once my mileage increases closer to that but will probably back off running and increase strength after it is over and through the winter. It would be nice to meet people trying similar things so we could discuss what works/doesn't work.

LindsayE007

I have been doing both. I am training for a half marathon, which is Sunday, so I have been averaging about 20-22 miles a week. I have started lifting heavy about 6-8 weeks ago. It hasn't interfered that I can tell. But I haven't went all in on the weights, more just dabbling in it. I am thinking after my 1/2 I am going to start New Rules and training for a triathlon to mix it up. I love running but I need to do some other stuff for awhile.

chase7512

I'm no expert by any means but I have been training for 10k, Summer, 1/2 in Fall and this is my usual routine that has been working.

Mon/Wed/Fri - Weight Lift with short 3km runs afterwards

Tues - 1.5m run, Eliptical 20mins, Bike 10mins, Rowing 10 mins

Thurs - Off

Sat - 7.5 - 10km Run
Sun - Off

It seems to be working for me, but again I'm no pro

DocGu

It is very very hard to do. I tend to change things during the course of the year. Right now I am concentrating on lifting heavy but still maintaining my running fitness base. In the past I have tried to maintain a moderate/heavy weight regimen during the middle of marathon training and failed miserably - I massively overtrained.

On Tuesday I went on a run and got caught up in it and went much longer then I originally planned (17K instead of 10K) and I really noticed it with the weights on Wednesday. For me the magic number is 12K - I can still lift heavy and do a 12K (which is an hour). Anything more and the lifting suffers.

sleepytexan

Thought I would mention that when I started lifting using NROL4W, the book mentioned that on your off days from lifting, you should do no more than 20 min cardio. It goes on to say that if you must do more than 20 min cardio you should not be lifting heavy 3x week. You can see how I do not follow directions, ha.

Obviously, since I have to teach a class, I can't limit it to 20 minutes, and while it worked for the first few weeks, like I said above, once I hit 100# I really started to understand why the book said that. In the past 2 weeks I've dialed back my intensity in spin and cut back on paddleboarding (this is making me sad).

I need to get back out the road too, so I guess in reality, I will need to drop lifting to 2x/week.

2April

I do both but it is sometimes better to get used to one first for 3 or 4 weeks then add in the other, otherwise I would take at least 2 rest days a week. Maybe one week do 3x weights and 2x running and the next week do 2x weights and 3x running.
Also, once you build up your running do only 1 long run a week.

chiltonenator

I'm a rookie - finished C25K and did a 5 K and have been doing a 3x5 program for 4 weeks. I run about 4 miles on MWF and lift on T TH SAT/SUN. I don't want to give up the running because it has really helped me lose weight, but I really like the lifting also. So far it's working OK for me to do both, so I'm going to keep on with it. I'm interested to hear about other's experience with it.

sleepytexan

I do both but it is sometimes better to get used to one first for 3 or 4 weeks then add in the other, otherwise I would take at least 2 rest days a week. Maybe one week do 3x weights and 2x running and the next week do 2x weights and 3x running.
Also, once you build up your running do only 1 long run a week.

That's kind of why I thought I would be fine -- I've been teaching spin for 8 years, so I figured that adding the lifting would be ok. I'm finding it is not the case for me. Weights knock me out like nothing I have ever done before.

jacksonpt

Nothing has helped my running (and my biking for that matter) like lifting. I lift heavy 3x week, 5 sets, 5-8 reps. I do squats, bench, pull-ups, deads and should presses each workout.

As for cardio, 5-8 miles is my comfort zone, but I'm trying to push that to 12-15 miles over the next couple of months in preparation for a few events I have this summer. I run when I can based on my kids' schedules, work, etc. I also do speed work once a week.

dawnemjh

bump!

ahamm002

Well of course running after you lift heavy is going to be tough! You can do both, but of course by doing both, you won't be as good as people who specialize in one area. However, you'll have more fun and be more likely to stick with your workouts by doing a variety of exercise. Just don't over do it and injure yourself. Rest days are important.

I work out five times per week, doing two full body heavy resistance sessions, one long slow jog (6 miles), one bike/swim day, and one HIIT session. I'd be a lot stronger if I spent all five days doing resistance training every week, but I enjoy the cardio much more than the gym.

One way to get a bit more running in is to do a run for your warm-up before resistance training. I do a quick mile run before I start lifting. It's not very far, but it gets me loosened up. And b/c I do it pretty fast (7 minutes, not super fast but hard for me) it doesn't eat up too much my energy before I start lifting.

stubbysticks

You CAN do both...I have...but they are counterproductive to one another to a certain degree. It depends on what your ultimate goals are. If you just want to be able to finish a half, then lift away. But if you want to focus on being a better, faster runner, lifting heavy will work against that goal. It has to do with muscle fiber recruitment...I won't go into detail since you can easily look it up on the interwebz, but in a nutshell muscle fibers are optimized for either endurance (slow-twitch) or strength (fast-twitch). To a certain extent we are limited by genetics...some people are just built to be better sprinters than marathoners. But we can also optimize what we have for the goal we're working towards.

Lifting heavy for lower reps (generally 12 or less is considered low reps) is going to optimize your fast-twitch muscle fibers. If you're bulking, you're reps are somewhere below this range, & if you're a runner, it will make you a better sprinter. Lifting less weight for more reps will make you a better distance runner by training your muscles to last longer.

Either way, lifting is awesome & you should do it, particularly the leg workouts because a strong lower body will help prevent injury. Lifting heavy doesn't work against you finishing your half, it just doesn't optimize your performance the way endurance lifting would. If you're not trying to be an elite athlete I wouldn't worry about it. Follow a lifting program you enjoy & can feel good about.

Happy running!

stubbysticks

And since I didn't completely answer the question...when I was doing this my training schedule looked something like:

Sun: long slow distance run, maybe 4-7 miles
Mon: full-body lifting workout A
Tue: speedwork session on treadmill
Wed: full-body workout B
Thu: tempo run
Fri: workout A
Sat: rest

The distance would depend on what I was training for...I haven't done a half yet but while training for 10ks I got my distance runs up to around 7 miles. My speedwork would be 30-40 min of intervals, & my tempo run would be about 4 miles.

ebaymommy

I do both but at different times I have to let one thing "win out" over the other. For example this winter in my off-season if you want to call it that....I was running 2-3x a week, probably around 20 miles a week. I crossed trained with other cardio (usually spin class) 1-2x a week and was lifting heavy 2-3x a week.

Then I got into marathon training. I dropped the cross-training down to 1x a week and the lifting down to 2x. My running mileage is continuing to go up & up, right now I'm running 35+ miles a week. I'm 7 weeks out from my marathon and I'm down to lifting only once a week and cross-training hard (like spin class) once a week and some more gentle cross-training (walking, swimming, more leisurely biking with my kids) several times a week.

After my marathon is over I plan to take a bit of a cardio break and just keep a small base mileage for running and I'd like to do NROLFW.

sisierra

I am by no means a log distance runner, but I get in a run every now and again. And to tell you the truth, its that your lifting, but distance running and lifting are somewhat counter-productive. Running breaks down muscle mass while lifting builds it, you hardly ever see beefy bros running, they're too heavy and muscles are too bulky.
I sure you could get stronger and still run, but it'll take a lot of work.
I lift MWF, sometimes with HIIT before
and cardio TRS

cPT_Helice

You can not do both and get the max effect for both. It depends on your goals. I was lifting heavy and running 3 miles 2x a week and doing a long run, 8-10 miles, on the weekend. That was fine. I started training for a half marathon. Running 4x a week and upping my mileage each week, until I was at ~35 miles a week, comprised of 1 long run (10-12 miles) + 2 runs with aerobic intervals incoorporated + 1 nice and easy 4-6 mile the day before my long run. I had to cut back majorly on my lifting. Now, I am between training for races and so am on a 6x6 program (one exercise per muscle group, 6 sets of 6 reps - HEAVY) 3 times a week. Sometimes I can only get it in 2x a week, even now, and so do full body on those days and it's a tough recovery. I am running 3x a week, 3-6 miles x2 and a long run on the weekend (8-11 miles). I also teach Spin. So, I have to accept that my cardio is much higher than it should be for body building and will greatly effect my results in that area.
So......... you can do both but you will not get max effects.
If you want to body build, you need to cut down the cardio. If you want to run distance, you need to ease off the really heavy weights.
I start training for a full marathon in about a month and will slowly work away from lifting until after - no choice.
Anyone who tells you different is not really lifting heavy and body building or is not really running a lot.
I think if you are only going to run 3 miles a couple times a week, you should be fine.

gentsevetzak

This is my schedule:

This is my most recent schedule, i don't follow it religiously but it gives you an idea.

Mon. Run 10 Kilometres, cycle 40 kilometres at high speed
Tue. Heavy lifting + 20 mins rowing + 20 mins elliptical
Wed. Same as monday
Thu. Same as Tuesday
Fri. Rest day or a long cardio workout, usually i don't take time off on friday.
Saturday. Run 22 kilometres + 40-80 kilometres cycling vigourously
Sunday: Rest day.

Rinse and repeat.
Seems to be working so far as long as i eat very clean, don't drink and get enough sleep. As soon as i do anything that goes beyond the lifestyle of a Shaolin monk i can't keep it up.
The combination of heavy lifting and intense cardio is very taxing, i've tought about quitting lifting because i don't like it anyway and it's a bit much but the results are too good to quit.

DavPul

I've never been able to do both productively for any amount of time. Back when I lived in Chicago, I used the winters to lift heavy, get stronger/bigger and eat all the Ginos East I could fit in my mouth. Around Easter I'd start running, and I'd lift as much as I could, but after a month of running my max lifts would decrease and my month 3 I could barely lift anything. Recovering from hard lifting was pretty much non existent as well. I tried several schedule variations over the years but to me running and lifting were just opposite goals that work against each other. Creatine may help you in the lifting department, but you've got a pretty brutal run/row/cardio schedule that I'm pretty sure is the Lex Luthor to your Superman workouts

Now I'm in SoCal where the weather is great but the pizza is crap so I don't get to have winter binges anymore. Sigh.....

Nopedotjpeg

Well, just to clarify. I'm not looking to be a "bodybuilder", I just want strength. I'd probably be more inclined to competitive lifting than bodybuilding type workouts.

I have no desire to do anything incredibly fast for a half-marathon. I'd like to just finish with a modest 12min/mile pace.

Nothing has helped my running (and my biking for that matter) like lifting. I lift heavy 3x week, 5 sets, 5-8 reps. I do squats, bench, pull-ups, deads and should presses each workout.

As for cardio, 5-8 miles is my comfort zone, but I'm trying to push that to 12-15 miles over the next couple of months in preparation for a few events I have this summer. I run when I can based on my kids' schedules, work, etc. I also do speed work once a week.

Could I ask what your background is in lifting and running? What kind of numbers do you put up on the big 3 and over what amount of time did you increase those from your beginning numbers?

2April

I do both but it is sometimes better to get used to one first for 3 or 4 weeks then add in the other, otherwise I would take at least 2 rest days a week. Maybe one week do 3x weights and 2x running and the next week do 2x weights and 3x running.
Also, once you build up your running do only 1 long run a week.

That's kind of why I thought I would be fine -- I've been teaching spin for 8 years, so I figured that adding the lifting would be ok. I'm finding it is not the case for me. Weights knock me out like nothing I have ever done before.

I feel better and stronger doing NROLFW 2x per week (down from 3x) . I run and do circuit training as well.

jacksonpt

Well, just to clarify. I'm not looking to be a "bodybuilder", I just want strength. I'd probably be more inclined to competitive lifting than bodybuilding type workouts.

I have no desire to do anything incredibly fast for a half-marathon. I'd like to just finish with a modest 12min/mile pace.

Nothing has helped my running (and my biking for that matter) like lifting. I lift heavy 3x week, 5 sets, 5-8 reps. I do squats, bench, pull-ups, deads and should presses each workout.

As for cardio, 5-8 miles is my comfort zone, but I'm trying to push that to 12-15 miles over the next couple of months in preparation for a few events I have this summer. I run when I can based on my kids' schedules, work, etc. I also do speed work once a week.

Could I ask what your background is in lifting and running? What kind of numbers do you put up on the big 3 and over what amount of time did you increase those from your beginning numbers?

Background is purely "self-developed" I don't especially like lifting, but it's hard to argue with the benefits. I've tried all the typical routines (upper/lower splits, push/pull splits, isolation lifts, compound lifts, etc). I've been doing StrongLifts for about 4 months because it's benefits are largely functional strength and with only 5 exercises I'm in and out of the gym fairly quickly (generally about 45mins).

Squats haven't increased much, but that's mostly a form thing (I've only recently started getting deep enough on my squats which required me to back off the weight a bit). Bench is slowly progressing, up about 10lbs since I started. Pull-ups I've gone form 3-4 reps per set to 6-8. Deads have progressed the most, up something like 40lbs. Shoulder presses are up ~10lbs from the start.

To be perfectly honest though, some of that "progress" isn't actually progress as much as it is just pushing myself harder than I though I could. When I first started lifting form was a problem for me, and what I thought was max effort really wasn't. As I've gotten better with my technique and gotten more accustomed to lifting I've been able to push myself harder.

The only times workouts I do with any regularity is a speed workout I do with the local triathlon club (1.1 mile run, 7.5 mile bike, 1.1mile run). Last season (before I started lifting), my splits were generally around 8:20, 22:45, 9:00. This season I'm averaging around 7:45, 21:30, 7:45. My average time this year is 2 minutes faster than my BEST time last year, and it's mostly because my legs are still strong during the second run leg.

valeriebpdx

If I am marathon training and I start to go heavy, my IT band gets all F'd up. Squats are so hard on the ITB. I always end up scrapping the lifting to finish the training. When I had a running coach, he never wanted me to lift at the same time. Half marathons are a lot less hard on the body, so it might be much more possible at that distance.

LorinaLynn

I run a lot slower if I'm achy from running, but as long as I give myself a couple days of rest before a race, I can turn it up.

Maystar80

I was also figuring out how to handle reintroducing heavy lifting to an already cardio intense workout regime a little while ago. This is what I came up with and it's been awesome for the last month!

I think the biggest thing is that I combined my 3 lifting sessions into 2 (by the 3rd workout of the week I am just ready for rest!) and I do my easiest cardio workouts on my lifting days. This has helped me focus on my intense cardio on the other days (which I do in two sessions to get enough rest). Also, keep in mind that you'll be the most sore from lifting the first few weeks and this will hurt your cardio for a little bit but it'll level out eventually.

My workout routine now:
Monday: wrestling class then weights/strength immediately after
Tuesday: Run in the morning and Spin in the evening
Wednesday: same as Monday
Thursday: same as Tuesday
Friday: Rest up, do some yoga/stretching
Saturday: Run (short and fast)
Sunday: Run (long and slow-er)

I think I might incorporate yoga into Monday and Wednesday also and then I can do absolutely nothing on Friday.

L00py_T0ucan

bump

Di3012

I don't run, but I am a cyclist, paddleboarder, dancer and spin instructor. I started lifting heavy about a month ago and it is literally wiping me out; it seems I can't do both heavy lifting and intense cardio. Especially since I hit 100# on the weights, everything else is suffering - terribly. This past week I made myself take 4 consecutive days off to recover and hopefully prevent further exhaustion. I've been back on it 2 days (spin Tues and did 105# squats 95# deadlifts and a few other things yesterday. I have to teach spin again in about an hour and I can tell right now I'm going to struggle.

Prior to starting lifting I did about 13-15 hours week cardio. I was never tired. Now I'm doing 3 hours lifting and 3 hours cardio, and I'm spent.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to keep doing everything I love, but I don't know how it can happen when I'm falling over by 6 pm.

I've posted about my fatigue on here and people have suggested I was overtraining. I am taking care to eat around 2000 calories a day and 30 % protein, so I guess they are right. Many people have said you can't push both weights and cardio hard at the same time. I think they're right.

I was really hoping there was a way to do this as well - I am a long distance runner and am usually training for a marathon - I am currently training for a marathon where I am trying to increase my speed and also trying to include more weight lifting as well - guess I am going to have to figure out a nice balance to make this work - thanks for your feedback!

Just wanted to say, be careful. Heavier weights, means more muscle - more muscle means more oxygen needed when running - you know where I am going with this regarding your marathon........ more oxygen needed means a faster heartbeat - you have 26.2 miles to run in that marathon.......

poustotah

Here's my training schedule:

M - Warm up, lift heavy, cool down
T - Warm up, run 5k
W - Warm up, lift heavy, cool down
R - Warm up, run 5k
F - Warm up, lift heavy, cool down
S - Run 5k

I worked with a trainer for a long time so on my lifting days, I'm doing something that he taught me or, more recently, I've incorporated the New Rules of Lifting for Women. I also do some kettlebells and circuit training.